I know it's been talked about, but seriously. No Jump Potions, here is why.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ragology

Enjoying the game doesn't mean a person has to enjoy every aspect of the game. You know that, so I'm not even sure why you'd use that as an argument.

---

It's how I was feeling at the time. This has changed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gemina

It's how I was feeling at the time. This has changed.

---

How or why did it change? What made you go from "People can play how they want" to "there's only one way to enjoy the game fully"?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gemina

The story is part of the game. If you don't want to experience that, then perhaps you don't want to play the game.

---

This is why I called you narrow-minded. You'd have to be narrow-minded if you truly believe there's only one right way to play this game. You would actually suggest that people shouldn't even play this game if they didn't want the story, yet you want this game to have more subscribers?

That is absolutely counter-productive, and the reason why this game WILL die if people aren't soon given the choice as to how they want to experience the game for themselves.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

How or why did it change? What made you go from "People can play how they want" to "there's only one way to enjoy the game fully"?

---

I never felt like a player can't play how they want to, or said there is only one way to enjoy the game fully. What changed was how adamant I was being about players partaking in the story because FF is SO much about that. I still believe that older content should be traversed. Maybe not ARR, but at least HW. It's not just the story, some of these instances and boss encounters are absolutely amazing as well, and will provide the new players with the battle experience they need. I understand that they will still be available for those who want to do them. I just hope enough players will want to.

Are you saying you want them to enjoy that first time feeling like you had when it comes to certain boss fights? I also slightly disagree with said fights giving players experience because we still get a lot of people in current content who still do rookie mistakes such as standing in the stupid or not stacking when you're supposed to.

Now I get your point of view OP. I somewhat share it too, but I have been putting all sorts of thought into this. While we think about our time invested and how great it\\'s felt, we veterans have been playing for quite some time. Those of use who have been playing since ARR (or earlier), we have had the bonus of going through all the patches and expansion as they were released. Now think of the new players. They have to go through ARR story and HW story. While we get to jump right into SB since we have been playing and keeping up, the newbies have to do everything else first before even starting SB. So when we think about that, new players may not even be able to play SB until well after its release (depending on how often they play/for how long).

While I don't like the thought of people skipping the story (because I think it's amazing), I have come to accept that not everyone cares about it. While it is a big part of the game, not everyone wants to watch it and DO skip it.

I do not really agree with jump potions, but thats only because I\\'m just worried about my own experience while leveling (ptsd from my wow days). But I do see why Yoshi is wanting to add them. While we love going through all the levels and story quests, it can turn new people from the game, especially after more patches and expansions come out. From a business perspective, XIV needs the potions no matter how much you, me or anyone don\\'t like them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Ok so you're worried about people simply skipping too much. I get and understand that. It's still the player's choice if they want to skip it all or play normally and if the potions are going to be as pricey as Yoshida claims, it'll deter people who will skip on a whim. Quality of players could be an issue, yet we still get people who don't know the basics or refuse to adapt, even though we have a novice hall dedicated to teaching said basics. Outside of cheating and trolling people, there really isn't a "right" way to play this game. The skip potions are not infringing on other players who want to experience the story firsthand.

---

Perhaps. I wonder how difficult it will be for those to get queues who want to experience the story now that up to 3.55 can be skipped.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Times change and people change with it. If fans had their way, Final Fantasy would never evolve past Final Fantasy 7

---

I don't believe that. I've adapted. Other FF loyalists would as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

I truly don't believe that the image and story of the game is going to get affected by this.

---

I hope you're right.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Are you saying you want them to enjoy that first time feeling like you had when it comes to certain boss fights? I also slightly disagree with said fights giving players experience because we still get a lot of people in current content who still do rookie mistakes such as standing in the stupid or not stacking when you're supposed to.

---

Of course I want new players get those same rushes and feelings of accomplishment that I felt from tackling new instances and bosses. I'm not sure why anyone wouldn't want that for new players. But it is more about ascertaining the battle experience why I feel they should go through it. Rookie mistakes are fine, and I still make mistakes myself. We all have to learn, and I know we have plenty who seem incapable of it. However, I feel that because this does exist, it is all the more reason for at least a little more restriction when it comes to these potions. It's one thing as of right now coming into a 50+ dungeon and derping all over the place. These players SHOULD know what they are doing by this point even if they don't. With the potions, that should goes away.

I've said it in the main thread, but I might as well say it here too: my biggest issue is the split in the player base. There will be players who have done the whole levelling experience, and players who have only experienced stormblood. When it comes to designing narrative, who do you appeal to? Who is right and who is wrong? What happens if jump potion players (in overwhelming numbers) complain about their narrative making no sense post 60? How will the devs manage two audiences that they have allowed to have two very different experiences with very different needs?

Oh, and as with any divide in this playerbase (and life in general), this will definately result in abuse, toxicity and segregation within the community. we are seeing it already.

Edit: premptive rebuttal: jump potion works in WoW and other games because a lot of its content is self contained and can be done in any order. XIV is linear like no mmo I have seen before, and the story is very interconnecting, to the point where extra dialogue was put into the MSQ if you had beaten coil or job quests. Removing all of that context and starting players at 3.55 part 2 (imagine all the world context that we know, and all the impact that it will have in stormblood) and them knowing as much as we knew back at level 1 is an experience that I can't even imagine, and would be like opening a book on a random page and beginning to read.

You do realize that before ARR, there was also an entire story in 1.0, too?

I don't see how isolating Stormblood's story the same way they did ARR's story would create issues.

I didn't play in 1.0. I didn't go through the calamity. I'm sure there are a lot of references and additional character depth (like the entire thing between Thancred and Minfilia) that I won't understand. That doesn't stop me at all from enjoying ARR and HW.

really...another post....

anyway, here is some comments from Yoshida from a recent interview for 3.5 and other stuff including a question about jump potions.

Cry as much as you like that it's not required, but it's time to face reality and just live with it.

Link to the translated interview

I'll just copy and paste what was discussed and you can all make up your opinion on the matter.

Q: The jumping potion really divides the players?

Y: There are players that think that all new players will buy jumping potions and get to level 60. I wanted to clear that misconception up. Also, there is no gathering or crafting jumping potions, so it won’t have any influence on the economy of the game. Besides, even if players use the jumping potion, they won’t be at the level cap immediately. They still have to do the last part of leveling by themselves. The price of the potion is also quite high, so not everyone will be able to buy it, nor will it be given out lightly. We have data from the Korean and Chinese versions, too, so we will make final decision by the end of January on whether we will implement the potion in 4.0 or at a later time.

1 of 2

2 of 2

Q: In Wow, many players gave up because they were suddenly level 90 or 100 and had no idea what to do. How will you handle that if it happens to FFXIV?

Y: When it comes to FFXIV, the Main Scenario Quests are in some ways tutorials because it is based on solo play. I also know that there are players who want the users of the potions to be forced into doing dummy trials.

Yoshida also commented that the potions will not be available until after 4.0 is released.

now, can we all just put this stupid debate to bed and get on with it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gemina

The story is part of the game. If you don't want to experience that, then perhaps you don't want to play the game.

---

Fishing is part of the game. If you don't want to experience that, then perhaps you don't want to play the game.

It doesn't get you to Max Level and gear you, so by far its NOT pay to win. You still have to level and gear up at current content.

I did my EX quests for the first time and the 2.0 pacing was real. Yeah, go run through this full aggro zone (which thankfully isn't a problem at 60) on foot to re-attune to the aetheryte. I had shell shock flashbacks of the ARR pacing and nah, I wouldn't wish that on anyone who doesn't wanna suffer through it.

I realy dont get it.
You want to buy a game + 2 expansions. Pay sub for it. Then pay more to not play 90 - 99% of it?
Why you even geting in to mmo if you dont want to play the game.its never the most fun at the 2-5 tthing you can even do at mmos end game.
What next ,f2p becouse new players dont want to pay?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brian_

You do realize that before ARR, there was also an entire story in 1.0, too?

---

You are right that there are a few things that you missed, but the devs deliberatly designed the story of 2.0 onwards so that 1.0 isn't relevant. The only bits that were slightly relevant were the things with Nael, and the fact that Nael could well have never been mentioned again (coil story was meant for the 1.0 players) shows how irrelevant it was. Hell... the scions got convenient amnesia when the calamity blew 1.0 to smithereens. 4.0 is different, and there are many loose plot threads from 2.0 and 3.0 that will be relevant in 4.0.

Would you like for them to make 4.0 like 2.0 where they make everything that came before it irrelevant for the sake of a jump potion? Because I wouldn't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BakaChin

Q: The jumping potion really divides the players?

Y: I wanted to clear that misconception up.

---

He really didn't clear my concern up though. He talks about levelling, I am talking about narrative. His data is also not perfect as the western audience plays the game very differently from the eastern audience, and we have very different mindsets.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BakaChin

Q: In Wow, many players gave up because they were suddenly level 90 or 100 and had no idea what to do. How will you handle that if it happens to FFXIV?

Y: When it comes to FFXIV, the Main Scenario Quests are in some ways tutorials because it is based on solo play. I also know that there are players who want the users of the potions to be forced into doing dummy trials.

---

Again, talking about the levelling potion, not the story potion. I have no issue with the levelling potion so long as it is limited to one per character (no "I want to pay for all jobs to be max" please), but the story potion presents a strange solution to a problem that only causes more problems.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BakaChin

can we all just put this stupid debate to bed and get on with it?

---

This is a very important debate about something that could potentially be good for the game, or kill the game dead (both sides have merit). You might not care, but a lot of people do, and it will affect the game we all care about. People will keep debating until a verdict is reached, and you can sit idle and not contribute if you don't want to, that is your right.

It is coming out regardless of what the community says. Is it, "the end is nigh"?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clethoria

I did my EX quests for the first time and the 2.0 pacing was real. Yeah, go run through this full aggro zone (which thankfully isn't a problem at 60) on foot to re-attune to the aetheryte. I had shell shock flashbacks of the ARR pacing and nah, I wouldn't wish that on anyone who doesn't wanna suffer through it.

---

If you and lots of people here think it so much suffer to play this game i really wonder why are you even paying for it?
As some one that lvling now its not so bad or slow.hell i mostly do the msq and it was all i need as exp go.not like you need to do the extra quests.
The only problem are aome of the people in df.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lambdafish

He really didn't clear my concern up though. He talks about levelling, I am talking about narrative. His data is also not perfect as the western audience plays the game very differently from the eastern audience, and we have very different mindsets.

---

How about you go and read the full interview in the link i provided. the discussion about jump potions is towards the bottom.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BakaChin

How about you go and read the full interview in the link i provided. the discussion about jump potions is towards the bottom.

---

I... did read it? and it didn't clear my concern up? Nowhere did they say how they were handling story threads and interconnection between 2.0, 3.0, and 4.0. There are major challenges there when taking into account the new audience and I'm not sure if the dev team will be able to overcome it in a way that pleases everyone.

They talked a lot about the level jump potion, and very little about the story jump potion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lambdafish

I... did read it? and it didn't clear my concern up? Nowhere did they say how they were handling story threads and interconnection between 2.0, 3.0, and 4.0. There are major challenges there when taking into account the new audience and I'm not sure if the dev team will be able to overcome it in a way that pleases everyone.

They talked a lot about the level jump potion, and very little about the story jump potion.

---

Ok, well, let's just say that the level jump potion is catered for those who want to get straight into content and don't care 2 shivs about the story. I do remember about story skip potion to get you passed some gated content, but i think it will be replaced with the level jump? i read somewhere else that it will get them access into 3.0 without going through pre-HW stuff. I could be wrong

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Would you like for them to make 4.0 like 2.0 where they make everything that came before it irrelevant for the sake of a jump potion? Because I wouldn't.

---

It's clearly relevant because we're living in the aftermath. It was fairly obvious to me that I was living in a post-calamity world as an ARR player and that I was continuing an ongoing story. Half the time I was left thinking who are these people and why should I care when it was clear that they were people from 1.0.

By your standards, ARR's story was also pretty irrelevant to HW. Ishgard's story was pretty disconnected from ARR. The only things linking it to ARR is the plot about lost Scions and Ul'dah. I think that is easily outweighed by all the backstory 1.0 provides for Louisoix, the Garlean Empire, the Scions, the Warrior of Light, various Primals including Bahamut, etc.

You're basically saying that mankind's history is irrelevant because tomorrow is a new day. Life doesn't work like that unless you have some strange memory loss condition.

or...you could just purchase the lore book?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by XSamsaraLotusX

I realy dont get it.
You want to buy a game + 2 expansions. Pay sub for it. Then pay more to not play 90 - 99% of it?
Why you even geting in to mmo if you dont want to play the game.

---

Are you making the argument that the way you personally enjoy the game is the only way?

Fetch quests and dialogue exchanges don't turn everyone on. The jump potions allow people to skip over these parts and spend more times on areas of the game they'd enjoy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BakaChin

or...you could just purchase the lore book?

---

or...you could understand the context of the discussion?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brian_

By your standards, ARR's story was also pretty irrelevant to HW.

---

Ul'dah
Ilberd
Shiva
Minfilia (and other scions)
Ascians
Garleans (3.5 especially)
Omega (and its connection to ultima weapon)
Midgardsormr

Yep, 2.x was very irrelevant

Really?how they even know what part of the game is fun for them of they bever did most of it?
Like some of the pro jumpers just want to get some """frends""" to the game.but dont want to help this frends in no way.
So really if se go lazy on how the game is after 4.0 becouse why care you will jump in 5.0 any ways, dont cry .

The Garlean empire / Nael van Darnus / Gael van Baelsar
Bahamut / the Calamity
other Primals and related beast tribes
The Battle of Carteneau
The Battle of Silvertear Falls and the entire backstory behind the formation of GCs
Louisoix (and other scions) and all the returning characters from that had pretty significant backstory in 1.0

...and basically the entire framework and world for ARR.

Yep, 1.x was very irrelevant

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by XSamsaraLotusX

Really?how they even know what part of the game is fun for them of they bever did most of it?

---

If this is someones first mmo, I doubt they'd use a jump potion right from the start unless someone they trusted reccomended it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seig345

People are already speaking out for and against this on the primary thread, so I'm unsure of what the need was in creating a new thread calling for something that's over 150 pages in progress on the same forum.

---

In my opinion and I'm gonna be blunt about it, it's for attention. A post in the official thread that is over 150 pages long won't get as much (new) attention as a singular thread disapproving the jump potion.

That said, I'm fine with the boost potion. So what if a newbie is suddenly level 50 or 60? Doesn't affect me, nor invalidate my experience whatsoever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ragology

If this is someones first mmo, I doubt they'd use a jump potion right from the start unless someone they trusted reccomended it.

---

They never played this game.its not like most mmos now days.if they played wow or bdo or bnd they may have wrong assumption.
If you dont do somthing you dont know if you like it or not.

You go to the first new dungeon in 4.0.
2 people you got from df dont know any thing.they cant use skills or even know what aoe is.how fun it be for you? Now what if one of them is the tank or the healer.
I dont say all peole using the jump potbe like this but lets stop live in a fairytale.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gemina

Define for me "meaningful". As in content that means something to the player? Or are you talking solely savage content? As so many describe it as the content that means anything. In either case, there are so many things to do in this game. Whether it is raiding, absorbing the story, crafting/gathering/fishing, breeding chocobos, etc. There is a lot of content that appeals to many different kinds of players, so I hope you understand how difficult it must be to keep releasing content to the point that the entire player base is content. If you want the devs to focus on more savage content to keep players challenged, I find that is a little unfair to those who have no desire to be there.

---

Endgame content. I would like to see additional fights added to the raid tier and an actual curve upward in overall difficulty, albeit to a reasonable extent. As per my example, a big issue I've had with Heavensward is the absurdly easy battle content beyond Extreme Primals and Savage. I am expected to run dungeons to cap lore and yet if I do not DPS nearly 90% of a dungeon run, I may as well spam emotes because I certainly won't be healing. Likewise, if I don't pull the entire room as a tank, I not only won't even look at my cooldowns. The healer could /sit and I wouldn't even notice. It doesn't help we've been reduced to only two new dungeons per patch cycles and their attempts at more exploration content has... left something to be desired, if I'm being polite. We shall see how Diadem 2.0 works out though. Now before any comments. No, I do not want for Savage caliber dungeons. Just Experts that actually force me to play my job correctly. I need my tank stance and cooldowns; I need to single target high priority mobs fast; I need to heal. Palace of the Dead does a pretty solid job of this. I'd be happy with even that becoming the new dungeons.

There needs to be a balance, yes. I do appreciate the varied focus, especially since I fancy crafting and whatnot. That being said, they haven't balanced combat too well. You either have punishingly hard or brain dead easy. What lies in the middle is wanting.

Quote:

---

Doesn't agree with me on what account? I don't recall mentioning anything in regards to an increase or decrease in player characters. In fact, all I have been talking about is players leaving. I want more subscribers just like the rest of you, but I also want to keep the current players aboard as well.

---

You mentioned people who want to keep the game going are people who do the story. The declining activity suggests raiders make up a much larger demographic than they are oft credited for. Some care about both, others just the gameplay. Ignoring them isn't going to help the game survive. And the older XIV gets, the less likely people will invest because there is just too much dated content. Even people who didn't mind the story eventually burnt themselves out because of the sheer volume. That only gets worse as new expansions are released. There's a reason no other MMO gates content this way anymore. It just doesn't appeal to the current generation. At least not long term.

Quote:

---

I do enjoy crafting, and gardening, and gathering. I spend a lot of time doing non-combat activities. But yes, I love combat too. Both the casual for when I feel like easy stuff, and the extreme to test my skills and become even better. I do enjoy creating my own lore for my character. I know I can't expect people to enjoy the same things I do, and I am not that selfish. I will recommend it to those who are burned out doing any one thing over and over again, but that is as far as that goes. Ultimately, I would love many, many, many more subscribers IF they can appreciate the game and what these devs do. And with the potions, I just fear we will get a flux of players who don't. Perhaps it is an irrational fear, but it is still there. I don't want the a poor decision to be made that jeopardizes the longevity of the game, or creates a player base of people who don't care about what makes FFXIV a legit FF game.

---

That's fair. I suppose, I am simply less concerned with what other people so long as my own enjoyment isn't ruined. A huge reason I even support a skip potion at all is due to fears the devs may allocate resources to "fixing" ARR and developing less new content for the rest of us. Quite frankly, I feel the lack of a potion or some means of skipping ahead is only to the game's benefit. People who buy a jump potion likely aren't ever going to care about the story. That doesn't mean they won't be good players or fancy the game. And that's enough for me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by XSamsaraLotusX

They never played this game.its not like most mmos now days.if they played wow or bdo or bnd they may have wrong assumption.
If you dont do somthing you dont know if you like it or not.

---

If its a person with mmo experience then they probably have some idea of what they do/don't enjoy in an mmo. Unless FFXIV handles its fetch quests in a way that is "not like most mmos now days" then I don't see what this person would be missing out on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by XSamsaraLotusX

You go to the first new dungeon in 4.0.
2 people you got from df dont know any thing.they cant use skills or even know what aoe is.how fun it be for you? Now what if one of them is the tank or the healer.
I dont say all peole using the jump potbe like this but lets stop live in a fairytale.

---

Although everyone today (aside from people who inherited or bought leveled accounts) has been through the leveling experience, the player skill levels are all over the place. The player who want to learn will put in the effort to learn while the people who don't want to learn will continue to be thorns in our sides. I'd be against the potions if they denied players the ability to go back into old dungeons to learn, but the potions don't do that.

Lets stop living in a fairy tale where experiencing fetch quests and story cut scenes directly translate into player skill.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by XSamsaraLotusX

You go to the first new dungeon in 4.0.
2 people you got from df dont know any thing.they cant use skills or even know what aoe is.how fun it be for you? Now what if one of them is the tank or the healer.
I dont say all peole using the jump potbe like this but lets stop live in a fairytale.

---

If we're being fair most people who would use a jump potion are probably familiar enough with FF/MMOs/games in general to know what an AoE is, same with what a healer is. The only true problem would be a tank, and given that most newbies would probably start with DPS anyways (Especially with RDM and probably a second new DPS as well) its not quite as bad.

Its translat to skill because you dont get all the skills in one go but one at a time,getineg used to it and then get the next one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brian_

Yep, 1.x was very irrelevant

---

Alright I get your point, but the thing is that all of those events are presented to us in 2.0+ as though they expect the player not to have played 1.0. The MSQ tells us about the battle of carteneu/silvertear falls as though we shouldn't know about it prior (and even expands upon them), the primals are reintroduced as though 1.0 never happened.

Also Bahamut was never in 1.0, his first appearance was right as 1.0 ended, in the 'answers' FMV, the calamity is very much a 2.0 plotline (as 2.0 never touches on the cause, other than an offhand conversation within the Praetorium).

Either way, the point I'm trying to make is the 2.0+ assumes that you never played 1.0, do you want 4.0 to assume that you never played 2.0 and 3.0, and explain the garlean empire, nidhogg, and the ascians as though we never encounted them before?

How you know that most people that will get it are mmo veterans?
If anything its the lame "give it to me all here and now" kids that will get it.we know there lots of them now days.