Can Red Mage start at level 30?

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Seriously, it doesn't make sense to start at 50. Jobs start at 30. That's a thing, it makes sense, it's why DRK AST and MCH start at 30.

I don't care if that is changed, but I care about consistency. If the other jobs aren't starting at 50 then Red shouldn't.

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The issue with consistency is this implies that we will get new Jobs only at Level 30. The issue with this is the gap between endgame and cap, and in my honest opinion, they are expecting this gap, which is why RDM is starting at Lv50.

Now keeping that in mind and enforcing this while the cap is, let's say, 99. That's 60+ levels required out of the player to reach endgame. That's ridiculous... on top of the fact that potentially, the player would be required to hit Lv50 on one class beforehand as well. It's asking too much of a single player.

there will be more new classes on 4.0
I dont want to lv up those from lv30-70 >.>;

Im pretty sure lv70 = same exp as lv1-60 or even more

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

there will be more new classes on 4.0
I dont want to lv up those from lv30-70 >.>;

Im pretty sure lv70 = same exp as lv1-60 or even more

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Well also to note, and someone correct me if I am wrong, the EXP rate for ARR and HW will most likely be increased so it won't be as bad as it was originally to level to 60. Honestly, I am kinda shocked no one has made a poll yet simply asking "Should the Stormblood jobs start at 30 or 50."

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Rogue is a class, started at 1. Ninja is a job, started at 30.
Advanced jobs like regular jobs start at 30 as well.

I'd personally prefer if DRK, AST & MCH had classes, but the current set up makes a sort of sense. Starting at 50 is just arbitrary.

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Only because it was introduced before any expansions. They have since acknowledged the class system is dreadful hence the quiet shelving they have done. Red Mage starting at 50 is no different than Heavensward jobs starting at 30. It's putting them closer to the level cap so people can reasonably enjoy leveling them through Stormblood. The majority aren't going to want to slog through old dungeons and content they've been playing for years.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

Yes, please! Have my like.

I've mentioned this before, but my desire to start at a lower level stems from two reasons. 1) I enjoy the leveling process. Starting at 50 means fewer levels, which means the job will be capped sooner, which means I'll be "done" with it sooner. Leveling alts is one of my primary activities in MMOs. 2) Starting at 50 means, if I want to make an alt for red mage, I'll need to grind through ARR on a class I have no interest in repeating the leveling process on. This is the same problem that the HW jobs had, and I am very frustrated, because SE ADMITTED that locking the HW jobs away was a mistake. So why are they doing it again? Sheer stubbornness? It can't be ignorance, since they've outright stated they shouldn't have done mch/ast/drk that way.

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The devs do not consider alts part of the argument since you have no actually need of them. Nevertheless, the flip side of your argument is by starting Red Mage at 1 or 30, everyone else is now forced to grind through old content-- in essence "locking" them away from their preferred job. One group was always going to be disappointed by this. Personally, while I do not mind leveling in most games, it's not particularly fun in XIV because I can't practice my rotation until level 50. Even with the changes to say, Dragoon. I can at least get a good handle with how my rotation will look. Prior to that? I'm mostly bored spamming Impulse Drive or Full Thrust combo with occasional oGCDs weaved in as I finally get them. Abilities are simply too far apart from 1-50 imo

Why not start at 60 then?

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Why not start at 60 then?

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Believe me, I am asking that as well. But I'm pretty sure the devs know what they are doing. :)

For all us basics...

I like getting my skills one at a time, so I can fuss over where it feels right on my chotbar, getting used to their icons, etc...

When I played new jobs at 30, I felt like I was at buffet and was just putting way too much on my plate cause I have fat kid eyes.

I don't like facerolling for a few dungeon runs...i like to save my facerolls for end game stuff.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Why not start at 60 then?

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For story and because they don't want to completely remove leveling. Like I said, at 50, you actually have a rotation to build around. It's the 1-50 grind most people hate.

I'm fine with the proposed lv50 start. Don't make them make me do more leveling than I need to lol. Just read what each action does as you place them on your hotbars and you've got hours of leveling from 50 to 70 to get accustomed to the rotation. As long as people take like at least 30 minutes of testing before they rush into an instance with a party then we shouldn't be inconvenienced too much by people not knowing what buttons to push. As for wanting more job story quests... I think we would all like more of all kinds of content but it's a balance of resources. Adding more content unique to each job would take a lot of resources. In an ideal world, there would be completely unique quests and story for each zodiac and anima weapon instead of all jobs sharing the same content on those.

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Originally Posted by Chevronone

For all us basics...

I like getting my skills one at a time, so I can fuss over where it feels right on my chotbar, getting used to their icons, etc...

When I played new jobs at 30, I felt like I was at buffet and was just putting way too much on my plate cause I have fat kid eyes.

I don't like facerolling for a few dungeon runs...i like to save my facerolls for end game stuff.

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But getting everything one spell at a time means you readjust your hotbars every few levels. Your rotation is always changing, and you don't actually get a picture of the class. It's why I've taken every job to 60 in PotD. It lets me organize my hotbars once and never again, and actually see how the class is supposed to work.

Imo, RDM should start out as lvl 30 like all normal jobs.
Personally I wouldn't even complain if it was level 1, like you know... all the new classes you never played before should be?

People that are too laz... I mean, don't wanna go through leveling again, they can all just go ahead and buy jump potions. Isn't that the reason they are being implemented anyway?

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

For story and because they don't want to completely remove leveling. Like I said, at 50, you actually have a rotation to build around. It's the 1-50 grind most people hate.

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Idk, I think that's kinda arbitrary. If ARR content is "undesirable" for RDM, then by the time it's released HW content is too. You'll even see that people in this thread want it to start at 60 and not 50, so they're not 10 levels behind their friends if they want to main RDM when Stormblood starts. (Count me among one of those people.)

That said, the people who want it to start at 30 seem to be the kinds of people who use leveling characters as busywork during content lulls, and not people who are interested in playing the class competitively when it launches. Short of letting people pick what level the job starts at, it giving us a free level boost potion at the start of Stormblood, there's simply no way for SE to please both camps.

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Originally Posted by Lilyth

People that are too laz... I mean, don't wanna go through leveling again, they can all just go ahead and buy jump potions. Isn't that the reason they are being implemented anyway?

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The jump potions won't be available until after Stormblood launches and won't be available for the new Jobs anyway. Also you shouldn't assume people that don't want to level from 50 are lazy. I've leveled EVERYTHING to 60 myself (here's my character if you need proof: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...cter/11140107/ )and I think red mage should start at 60 also. Why you may ask?

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

You'll even see that people in this thread want it to start at 60 and not 50, so they're not 10 levels behind their friends if they want to main RDM when Stormblood starts. (Count me among one of those people.)

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Lorelei here sums it up correctly and she is absolutely right. I posted it earlier and I will repeat here, I think the new Jobs should start at 60 with a brief tutorial quest that gives you your skills in order of use so you know how to play the class. It doesn't have to be super detailed but WoW did something like that with their latest expansion. The new xpac in WoW is level 100 to level 110 and if you buy the expansion you get the option to boost a character to level 100 to jump right in to the new content but before that you do a brief tutorial that gives a very easy to understand and simple explanation of the basics and then throws you in to a combat mission to really try it out in action, in my opinion it's well done.

Why do people keep asking for the new jobs to start at 30 or lower cause they can't learn in time. It takes almost the same amount of XP from 50-60 as 1-50 and if they do the same for 60-70 how could they not know how to play in time, even if you gave them 1-100 there would be people who still wouldn't know how to play

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

Idk, I think that's kinda arbitrary. If ARR content is "undesirable" for RDM, then by the time it's released HW content is too. You'll even see that people in this thread want it to start at 60 and not 50, so they're not 10 levels behind their friends if they want to main RDM when Stormblood starts. (Count me among one of those people.)

That said, the people who want it to start at 30 seem to be the kinds of people who use leveling characters as busywork during content lulls, and not people who are interested in playing the class competitively when it launches. Short of letting people pick what level the job starts at, it giving us a free level boost potion at the start of Stormblood, there's simply no way for SE to please both camps.

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Oh, I don't disagree. I should have clarified that is more an acceptable compromise for me. Ten levels is enough I can speed through quickly and not lag too far behind. Granted, I would prefer being able to switch to Red Mage and start Stormblood immediately.

That is certainly how I look at leveling. It's keeping me occupied to learn new jobs I haven't leveled yet, but I wouldn't call it fun per se. Some parts have been. Others? Less so. (Looking at you early Marauder and Conjurer.) I'm not looking forward to leveling Arcanist either.

I miss the days of XI when leveling was part of the gameplay, Like when expansion came out in XI and had a new job back to level 1 if wanted to play that job and everyone that has played XI knows what leveling was like in that game. Now I'm not saying need to start at level 1 in XIV but think 30 is fine to start at or least like someone else said least give person option to either start at 30 or 50. For me expansions are kind of new air in terms of leveling as there a new job to leveling (if I feel want to play the new job being added) otherwise it not really new it just swapping one job for another and continuing the same treadmill.

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Originally Posted by Brightshadow

Some people enjoy leveling and learning their jobs can we start at level 30. Instead of 50 it makes more sense since jobs (including heavenward jobs) start at 30.

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No thanks!...

Level 50 is enough grind already, if you feel you need to level up more in order to learn a new job then make an alt character or more and have them level up the same job over and over until you feel you are good enough!... :confused:

Ya really if it starts at 50 you going to miss out on red lore.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

The issue with consistency is this implies that we will get new Jobs only at Level 30. The issue with this is the gap between endgame and cap, and in my honest opinion, they are expecting this gap, which is why RDM is starting at Lv50.

Now keeping that in mind and enforcing this while the cap is, let's say, 99. That's 60+ levels required out of the player to reach endgame. That's ridiculous... on top of the fact that potentially, the player would be required to hit Lv50 on one class beforehand as well. It's asking too much of a single player.

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Getting new classes in MMOs traditionally means you start leveling from scratch. I'm not sure why y'all are acting like doing so would be some monumental undertaking.

And they shouldn't require players to hit 50 on a different class to access other classes. That cuts out a huge chunk of the annoying grind right away.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

The devs do not consider alts part of the argument since you have no actually need of them. Nevertheless, the flip side of your argument is by starting Red Mage at 1 or 30, everyone else is now forced to grind through old content-- in essence "locking" them away from their preferred job.

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How is playing red mage from 1-whatever or 30-whatever locking someone out of their preferred job? They would literally be playing the job they wanted. The system as it is, however, DOES lock people out of their preferred job - you cannot start a character and play as DRK, AST, MCH, or (in the future) red mage and presumably whatever other new job we get.

They've already acknowledged in the past that they thought the barrier for DRK, AST, and MCH was ill-thought out. I do not understand why they are repeating the issue with jobs in Stormblood.

I honestly think they should split the dif and have RDM start at 40, that still gives people 30 lvls to work with for Red Lore and all that, plus its not that far from the max level. I think starting at 40 would be a good compromise there.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

How is playing red mage from 1-whatever or 30-whatever locking someone out of their preferred job? They would literally be playing the job they wanted. The system as it is, however, DOES lock people out of their preferred job - you cannot start a character and play as DRK, AST, MCH, or (in the future) red mage and presumably whatever other new job we get.

They've already acknowledged in the past that they thought the barrier for DRK, AST, and MCH was ill-thought out. I do not understand why they are repeating the issue with jobs in Stormblood.

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It's not locking in the traditional sense, but in lieu of experiencing all the new content, you're grinding through old dungeons for hours. You have to keep in mind, they want to cater towards current subs with the jobs not people leveling alts or brand new characters. The issue with DRK, AST and MCH wasn't their level but the fact you had to complete the entirety of ARR and all its patches before you could unlock them. Red Mage can be accessed the moment you reach 50. A lot of veteran players don't want to grind what may be their 5th, 6th, 14th job. If you do, old dungeons and PotD recreate that option. Perhaps not to the extent you may prefer, but they were never going to please us all.

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Originally Posted by Kewitt

Ya really if it starts at 50 you going to miss out on red lore.

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Did you miss out on job lore in ARR? 20 levels then and 20 levels now. Honestly as long as the lore is well constructed and presented 20 levels is enough.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

It's not locking in the traditional sense, but in lieu of experiencing all the new content, you're grinding through old dungeons for hours. You have to keep in mind, they want to cater towards current subs with the jobs now people leveling alts or brand new characters.

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You can experience it when you get to 60+... No different than leveling 50-60 in that respect. If you're going to use this argument, then you may as well advocate for red mage starting at 60 - or for there to be no leveling at all.

My fundamental criticism is that we should not be locked away from playing the job we want when we start a character. If a new player is drawn in by Stormblood and the allure of red mage, they are going to be awfully disappointed when they find out they have to go through 50 levels before they can even play the job they want. (This was the frustration I had when purchasing HW, drawn back to the game largely due to AST.)

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Originally Posted by Naunet

Getting new classes in MMOs traditionally means you start leveling from scratch. I'm not sure why y'all are acting like doing so would be some monumental undertaking.

And they shouldn't require players to hit 50 on a different class to access other classes. That cuts out a huge chunk of the annoying grind right away.

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"Traditionally" Looks like FFXIV is breaking that tradition in order to do a service for people who purchase their games. Who knew game devs would "coddle" players? As you so put it eloquently in another post.

Well that's how the game works, I'm not complaining, I have everything at 60 (and have had all at 60 since week 1 of 3.1) and if a player has to go through the MSQ and up to 50 to gain new jobs, then so be it. I put the effort and time, what's stopping others? If SE really wanted to "coddle" their players, they'd make the MSQ last 1 quest that goes from A to B and gives you instant EXP up to Lv90. :)

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Originally Posted by Lexia

give person option to either start at 30 or 50.

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Well isn't it great we have PotD and dungeons that sync you down to those levels! :D

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Originally Posted by StarRosie

I honestly think they should split the dif and have RDM start at 40, that still gives people 30 lvls to work with for Red Lore and all that, plus its not that far from the max level. I think starting at 40 would be a good compromise there.

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You don't get more lore with more quests, you just get more filler. I remember a few job quests that dont give you anything and just send you out to kill X creature for practice

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Originally Posted by Kewitt

Ya really if it starts at 50 you going to miss out on red lore.

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Let's talk about Scholar lore... Tonberries with metal helmets yelling at Scholars.

Yes... "lore".

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Originally Posted by Averax

You don't get more lore with more quests, you just get more filler. I remember a few job quests that dont give you anything and just send you out to kill X creature for practice

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I cannot reiterate how much this is true. You may get 2-3 lines (maybe a paragraph) of background on the job in between having to kill X because of a conflict with Y about Z every 5 levels from 30-50 if any at all. If anything, this is going to make the lore quests more concise.

It not surprising why "gamers" have the reputation/POV the world has of them.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

It not surprising why "gamers" have the reputation/POV the world has of them.

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What, wanting it their way and everyone else's is wrong? :P

I'm fine with it starting at 50

This is one of those cases where parity sort of applies. If we set classes to start at lv1, DRK AST and MCH set the starting point for jobs at lv30 (which makes sense seeing that it's the point where you have access to job quests). Considering that getting a job at lv30 with a bunch of skills learned already stretches suspension of disbelief, having a job start at lv50 with 23 abilities already learned is just silly.

Aside from that, you have the learning curve. It is in fact easier to learn a job as you level it, and considering that the number of skills gained at 30 are already considerable, lv30 is a decent enough starting point where a job has plenty of skills without being overwhelming (which I fear would be the case with a lv50 job).

I would like it to start at 60 personally so don't have to do the HW fate grind again.

I don't plan to start out as one of the new jobs but. The same thing will happen. People leveling old jobs will be doing the new Stormblood areas while if you want to main a new job you will be back in HW doing fates in old zones.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

I would like it to start at 60 personally so don't have to do the HW fate grind again.

I don't plan to start out as one of the new jobs but. The same thing will happen. People leveling old jobs will be doing the new Stormblood areas while if you want to main a new job you will be back in HW doing fates in old zones.

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You could also use roulettes and beastman dailies. I pretty much ignored FATEs once I saw how horribly inefficient they were made in the HW areas.

Let's also think about how this affect the lower level people and those starting out. You're basically reducing the pool of players available in DF do a degree. Unless the intent is to get people to buy leveling potions.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

You could also use roulettes and beastman dailies. I pretty much ignored FATEs once I saw how horribly inefficient they were made in the HW areas.

Let's also think about how this affect the lower level people and those starting out. You're basically reducing the pool of players available in DF do a degree. Unless the intent is to get people to buy leveling potions.

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You can't use the potions for the new Jobs that are released.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Why not start at 60 then?

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Originally Posted by ErryK

Believe me, I am asking that as well. But I'm pretty sure the devs know what they are doing. :)

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Its to spread the player load out at release. This will split players into 2 groups: progression players working on 60 to 70 content and new job players doing 50 to 60 content.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

You could also use roulettes and beastman dailies. I pretty much ignored FATEs once I saw how horribly inefficient they were made in the HW areas.

Let's also think about how this affect the lower level people and those starting out. You're basically reducing the pool of players available in DF do a degree. Unless the intent is to get people to buy leveling potions.

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I leveled all my jobs to 60 with fates in HW except my first which i used the main story quest line. It was the fastest way to get exp. They buffed fate exp very shortly after the release of HW. Stuff like beastman tribes are very limited in the number you can do in 1 day same with roulettes.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

I don't care if that is changed, but I care about consistency. If the other jobs aren't starting at 50 then Red shouldn't.

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Change is the consistency. HW jobs don't have associated classes is the 3.0 change. SB jobs not starting at 30 is the 4.0 change. Now you have your consistency.

12 Beast tribe dailies (6 of which scale with level to 60 each day), daily HW hunt log (many people seriously missed unlocking this at ~53 each target gave as much as a FATE for that level for each target group killed), weekly challenge log, 4+ Roulettes at 50 with at least 1 added at 60, Levequests, PotD is uncapped. There will be a ton of ways to get XP level 50+ outside of FATE farming in 4.0.

30 to 40 is mostly FATE, Dungeons and Levequests until Beast Tribes are unlocked at 41.

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

You can't use the potions for the new Jobs that are released.

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I meant more that you'd have less people available for lower level dungeons. Consider that some would use the lv50 roulettes to level in addition to leveling roulette, but if the bulk of your players on the latter is 50+ that means it'll be faster to get 50+ dungeon groups that it would be 1-49. Which in turn might lead to frustrated people buying a leveling potion to catch up and increase their chances of getting a group. At least, that's the scenario I see playing out, hence my comment about leveling potions.

It's sort of like trying to create a top-heavy environment where there doesn't need to be one. We're not that far into the game's lifetime for that sort of thing to happen.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

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I don't necessarily see that being the case. There are always high level players running the mentor roulette, leveling roulette, etc. I don't think it will damage queue times really, at least not as much as we expect but then again we might be surprised. I can't speak to all servers, but after HW released I saw "Role Needed (DPS)" up damn near constantly. The only thing that will hurt queue times (in my opinion) will be everyone leveling whatever new job ends up being most popular. It's still a toss up what that may be. For all we know the next Job could be one that ends up even more popular than RDM.