The New Chat Restriction in The Feast

Nice. I will not see 'please dont que' and 'you're a cancer' again.

If you can't behave like a civilized human being, you don't deserve a party chat.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

Nice. I will not see 'please dont que' and 'you're a cancer' again.

If you can't behave like a civilized human being, you don't deserve a party chat.

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If you can't play like a human being, you don't deserve a party chat.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

The irony in someone arguing against this decision being the perfect example of why it should be implemented.

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...77#post3935277

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Maybe you should working on your ability to understand context before switching to figure of speechs you dont recognize

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Originally Posted by Zojha

No, the mature thing is to not rage in the first place, but rather take a step back, a deep breath and a break when you get angry. Which you should probably do right now because you are not being particularly mature.

Disabling chat is just the easy way out, that has nothing to do with maturity and all to do with cost/time efficiency.

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You are saying that its better that SE disables all chat in pvp rather people who are even cant be bothered to report it ?

Are we gonna disable chat in duty finder now too? go in the duty finder thread, plenty of people are more raging then in pvp

i dont need to take a step back, its just plain wrong

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Originally Posted by TiramisuMacaron

In WoW, people just went to extremes to harass people. They would create alts and send tells to the person after a match. This isn't stopping harasdment, it is just crippling a community that already has it rough.

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Which is exactly what we are going to begin seeing (Unless you're on gilga or Balmung where it's not possible.)

I honestly feel like SE fails to realize that human beings play their video game. What happens when you try to put a lid on something? Let's see...

It gets worse. It builds up, and you may see fewer cases, but an increase in more extreme cases. It's like teaching abstinence. Does abstinence stop your sex drive? No, it just builds it up and makes you get involved in some weird stuff.

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Originally Posted by tehomegaking

cause you got the notion backwards

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There is no "backwards" to coordination. It's a two way street. Multiple things working in cooperation with one another for the most effective result. All my stun maccro does is inform the dps of when that healer can be stunned. That doesn't mean that the stun is initiated at that precise moment, especially considering a lot of dps like to clip stun timers just for kicks.

Regardless, the bottom line is that I'm at least trying to communicate with the team. That's more than I can say for 99% of the dps who run in Feast. The truly sad part about this change is that there is a great majority of mindless players out there who won't even notice a difference. On the other hand, anyone who tries to use the chat constructively will now have to operate on blind faith that they're team is even somewhat competent.

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Originally Posted by Kaitoo

i dont need to take a step back, its just plain wrong

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Oh, it definitely is wrong. But you're still reacting immaturely and pulling strawman after strawman to make a point that hasn't even been questioned by the person you are addressing with them.

What would be "right" is to chat restrict the accounts of those who have been found guilty of abuse to prevent further damage and remove them from the ladder for the rest of the season as lesson for the future and deterrence. SE just doesn't do that because it would require hand checking every case.

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Originally Posted by Animosite

If you can't play like a human being, you don't deserve a party chat.

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You know comments like that is the reason why they're blocking the chat in the first place.

Communication is essential in high-level play.


I don't really see much toxicity in these matches either. Its the low-ranking matches and the ones where Bronze and Golds (or better) are mixed I see this somewhat (and even then, I've seen tons worse in other games)


Maybe just restrict it where Unranked and Bronze are present, and leave the Gold/Platinum/Diamond matches alone. Unranked matches are such a mixed bag past a week or two into the season anyway, and people there now barely read chat (or watch marks) in the first place :\

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Oh, it definitely is wrong. But you're still reacting immaturely and pulling strawman after strawman to make a point that hasn't even been questioned by the person you are addressing with them.

What would be "right" is to chat restrict the accounts of those who have been found guilty of abuse to prevent further damage and remove them from the ladder for the rest of the season as lesson for the future and deterrence.

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there is new strawman, its, again, a simple fact that that kind of behaivor exist in pve too but its not punished like that way.


Also how does it add up that pvp is very niche in this game but they cant cope with the reports?

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Originally Posted by FinalWolf

You know comments like that is the reason why they're blocking the chat in the first place.

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Don't provoke it with your ignorance.

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Originally Posted by Animosite

Don't provoke it with your ignorance.

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Keep on bro. You're just proving their point with each post.

This is a Plaver versus Player mode and you play with players not npc's, comunication is needed. Feedback, strategy, coordination. Sometimes you make a mistake and dont know why you lost unless someone tells you. Sometimes someone has a different strategy to win a game and get some feedback from other players if it worked or not or if it could be improved. And since this is a PvP mode there will always be people harassing, some drama about what is best or who is the best or what is bad etc.. not everyone is like that but you have to expect this kind of things when you play PvP games, removing the chat is not the solution it will only make it worst, will just make people get more frustrated in matches.

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Originally Posted by FinalWolf

Keep on bro. You're just proving their point with each post.

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He kind of has a point. The "victims" are people that often provoke these actions from other people. It's not like the people that rage are just loose cannons who cannot control themselves.

Like right now. Instead of simply offering your opinion in a mature manner, you come into the thread and start picking on people. The rage is not mature, but neither is the provocation.

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Originally Posted by Kaitoo

there is new strawman, its, again, a simple fact that that kind of behaivor exist in pve too but its not punished like that way.

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Yes, it is a strawman. You are, AGAIN, making an argument against a claim that has not been made. This behaviour is not punished this way in PvE because it is very, very rare in PvE. That should be obvious - the cases are few and far between, so there's no point in taking drastic measures against it. For the very same reason, frontlines does not get a chat restriction - the toxicity isn't as bad there, so SE does not restrict chat there. It hasn't been as bad in Wolves Den either, or they would have attempted to implement that feature earlier. It's NOT PvP as such. It's only the Feast and I bet with that they mean RANKED feast. Ranked is the source of the surge in toxicity that made them consider this option, there is no way around that. And that is precisely why removing people's rating would be a very efficient punishment for abuse.

You also mistake "being unable to cope" with "inefficient". When PvE has 1% toxicity and ranked 70% (Numbers arbitrary to get the point across), it's far easier to just disable chat in ranked, because handling the cases is a disproportionate amount of effort.

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Originally Posted by FreeKingStefan

He kind of has a point. The "victims" are people that often provoke these actions from other people. It's not like the people that rage are just loose cannons who cannot control themselves.

Like right now. Instead of simply offering your opinion in a mature manner, you come into the thread and start picking on people. The rage is not mature, but neither is the provocation.

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Like what you're doing right now? If it's that important to you then just discord.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Yes, it is a strawman. You are, AGAIN, making an argument against a claim

You also mistake "being unable to cope" with "inefficient". When PvE has 1% toxicity and ranked 70% (Numbers arbitrary to get the point across), it's far easier to just disable chat in ranked, because handling the cases is a disproportionate amount of effort.

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aha...ok

carry on then

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Originally Posted by Zojha

They most likely will not allow macros, because you could just write your nasties into those. At the very best, they'd allow full auto-translate macros, but that would require a check I doubt they'd program extra.

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Im under the impression macroing insults can fall into spam harassment way easier than something just typed out though, still my only real pov for "extreme" cases of a**holery is wow and if we use that as an example then you would be right nothing is done to spam insulting there from what i can tell.

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

For what it's worth, I thought you made some good points and I do see that blocking the chat will be genuine hindrance for some players. I also accept that my experiences probably give me an extremely skewed view of the overall picture.

Perhaps one day I'll see it from your side (although probably not if SE does block chat...)

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well problem is, if the way they went about deciding this is what was translated, your personal experience seems to be the norm not the exception. To the point apparently that upon going over chat logs they decided to do this admittedly drastic move. XD

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Originally Posted by Kaitoo

You are saying that its better that SE disables all chat in pvp rather people who are even cant be bothered to report it ?

Are we gonna disable chat in duty finder now too? go in the duty finder thread, plenty of people are more raging then in pvp

i dont need to take a step back, its just plain wrong

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If SE went though chat logs for party finder and found the norm to be toxicity over cooperation, they prolly would implement this there too :P Honestly im hoping we get a dev response about this cuz I am curious just how bad it was that they went over chatlogs and decided this was the way to go.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

... I don't really see much toxicity in these matches either. Its the low-ranking matches and the ones where Bronze and Golds (or better) are mixed I see this somewhat (and even then, I've seen tons worse in other games) ...

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I like that you mention that you seen worse in other games cuz it makes me wonder if its about a correlation. People will undoubtedly challenge me on this but FF 14 "pve" scene is very civil overall and maybe that contrast makes the pvp scenario look even worse? When you mentioned other games my thoughts went to WoW and that game has an undeniably toxic pvp scene...but its contrast is a equally toxic pve scene as well :P So perhaps in that case it just goes from being bad behavior to being the norm?

Just makes me curious as to whether its overreaction because in the case of the overall ff 14 community toxicity is well beyond being "normal" behavior. Some argue that this toxicity is nothing compared to other competitive online games, but how does it measure up to what the "ff 14 community" is?

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Originally Posted by FinalWolf

Like what you're doing right now? If it's that important to you then just discord.

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I'd like to think that what I said to you was neither rage-fueled or provoking in nature. Sorry if you took it that way.

Im totaly okay with the new system. I can finaly Heal in Feast again without getting insulted if people die once.

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Originally Posted by Araxes

Im totaly okay with the new system. I can finaly Heal in Feast again without getting insulted if people die once.

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I can finaly dps without killing stuff, ahhh 50 k damage in a 8 min fight here I come.

Is there some reason you guys can't simply move to 4v4 fixed party Feast if you want real high level play with voice comms (which are mandatory for optimal performance anyway)? Like any game with both solo and premade queues, the solution to problems in solo is to queue premade so you can control who you're teamed up with. It's really no different in other games - you have people turning off their chat or muting their team in advance, even muting incoming voice comms even if it's a default feature.

If there aren't enough players to support a fixed party ladder, that's a problem the playerbase has to solve itself. And for all you know, a more hospitable solo queue experience will incentivize more people to stick with the mode and graduate into serious players.

A lot of you are also overlooking the fact that this change affects both teams equally. Perhaps you'll simply have to adapt to the new communication metagame where you'll have to assume people will kind of do their own things at times. I suspect macros are a placebo for some of you anyway - there's no reason to assume that someone new to PvP has the presence of mind to parse the contents of their chatlog while in battle - especially if they're already struggling in the first place, coupled with the fact that PvP is far more demanding of attention than most raid encounters.

I am against this, but 90/100 of loosing is equal to have someone mean to others.
insult others is easy, shut a chat is easy too.
You want SE to banning players and punishing players, and waste time and ressources because at least 20/100 of playerbase take the easy way to insult others.
it won't happen.

nooo how am i gonna get my daily turn on from angry pvpers? ugh back to LoL i guess.

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Originally Posted by Gumbercules

If SE went though chat logs for party finder and found the norm to be toxicity over cooperation, they prolly would implement this there too :P Honestly im hoping we get a dev response about this cuz I am curious just how bad it was that they went over chatlogs and decided this was the way to go.

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Those would probably be very boring logs lol.

9/10 runs of standard DF content consist of {Hello!} at the start and "Ty4p" at the end, because most of the standard content is so brainless that it can all be face-rolled. The only exceptions are 24 man raids, extreme level trials, or savage raids, and all of those are just as toxic as PvP. Some of the PF groups for savage or extreme content, in particular, can be downright disgusting. That said, if SE made the same decision for that content, the community would probably explode in protest. As usual, SE seems to be making an exception to their "standards" when it comes to PvP.

I am definitely curious about what those standards are, though. For example, what exactly do they consider "Harassment." Do they distinguish between strongly worded criticism and flat-out hate mail? Do they flag every disagreement (some of which are valid arguments) as harassment? Do they monitor macros or just typed chat? Do they have a program that picks out specific words? Things like that. Obviously, any case of wishing cancer upon someone is pretty cut and dry, but what about times when people just get into an argument? Or if someone was over-sensitive to being called-out on a mistake? I'd be interested to see how many of those instances were slapped with a "Harassment" label, if any.

Posting to agree with the OP and many other people in this thread who are saying that removing the chat is a bad move. While I can appreciate their reason for wanting to do it, I absolutely think it will do more harm than it helps. I think it is really important for people to strategize before a match, as well as come up with complex plans beforehand. For example, how do you communicate... "Okay, tank lock down the healer, once they pop all their cooldowns, everyone be ready to hard switch." (Something like that would be hard to say in auto-translate or the 'buttons' they are giving you.) I agree with others who have suggested that we should punish toxic players by taking away THEIR ability to chat. A blanket ban on all chat is just hurting the competitive nature of The Feast. It's a team-based game, and, given how most people do solo anyway... this is making it even less coordinated. =/ (Or maybe this is their way to try to force party ranked games to become more active? People would rather get in voice chat and strategize than use the in-game chat anyway.)

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Originally Posted by Ryuko

I think it is really important for people to strategize before a match, as well as come up with complex plans beforehand. For example, how do you communicate... "Okay, tank lock down the healer, once they pop all their cooldowns, everyone be ready to hard switch." (Something like that would be hard to say in auto-translate or the 'buttons' they are giving you.) (O

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k

If you want to type smth like that rip. The stuff you mentioned isnt smth that needs to be called out. You dont tell a tank when to lock down a healer etc. ppl know that or they dont no use to telling them while u type u do nothing for your team. Also they said "disabled chat during battle" I guess that means u can still use chat before the gate opens. People act like solo q needs alot of coordination but in fact it doesnt atm ppl either use macros for obvious stuff like "go back" when healer dies etc.. Most stuff ppl type is just toxic or "gg ty". You want to coordinate that much ? go light party with voice chat lel

While its true that people are rarely nice about it, I think its important for players to have feedback from their teammates.

I'm certainly not perfect, and been on the receiving end of negative comments countless times. Sometimes it's just crap spewed by insecure players who need to shift the blame for their losses on others. Sometimes it's valid. And all those times I screwed up or under-performed, for whatever reason, heck yeah I felt bad, because I cost 3 other players rating. They had a right to be upset. But yanno, instead of crying in a corner I put on my big boy pants and try to learn from the experiences, fix whatever I needed to fix, whatever.

In all the matches Ive played Ive never encountered anyone insulting someones mother, or wishing cancer on another player, or any other extreme example people seem to always quote here. Idk if thats a thing on other data centers, but its not on mine.

Theres 8v8 (which does pop, please stop insisting it doesn't) and frontlines for people who need to work on their pvp skills, or, god knows, basic gameplay mechanics. And frankly, anyone of the mindset "I pay my sub I do what I want" who continuously queues ranked despite their own sub-par performance, deserves to have crap thrown at them.

Protecting people from mean comments doesnt justify the negative impact on teamwork+communication removing p-chat will have.

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Originally Posted by Myon88

Is there some reason you guys can't simply move to 4v4 fixed party Feast if you want real high level play with voice comms (which are mandatory for optimal performance anyway)? Like any game with both solo and premade queues, the solution to problems in solo is to queue premade so you can control who you're teamed up with.

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None of my friends/FC mates want to touch PvP because of what a bad rep it has. I have no choice but to solo queue, and I make the most of it by trying to form strategies in the 1min briefing period.

Not all of us have a ton of people interested in it to make a 4 man with, and you can't VC with randoms. Text based was all I had and I made the most of it.

Pyrali, As februs say it happen in pve too, he is right
but pvp Community is small, so you can encounter the same rage specialist 5 times a day if you are lucky.
I say this because it happen at least 1 loose/2, unfortunaly the one blaming others is all time the same.
I understand sometimes the rude one when players is totaly clueless or when we have someone geared under ilvel150 [SE please lock this to ilevel150],
but it happen also for nothing, just to blaming even if the group we faced was good, or blaming someone got DC'ing, i saw a healer dc'ing, when he got reconnect a players say him to stop queuing...
The reward is what this players is raging for, that's all.
I guess a big part of the report of abuse like this occur in the feast.
All this make a bad rep to the instance.
For me it's all good , we don't need the chat in pug groups, exept for obvious thing, you can mark players, and if we have all made macro to say pick the medals, or others obvious thing it's good. no more free insult.

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Originally Posted by kisada

HAHAHAHA

oh god

HAHAHA

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BAHAHAHA

oh lord

BAHAHAHA *Coughs* * coughs* *dies*

Did SE hire Anita Sarkeesian...?

Well, I agree with OP. This may actually backfire. Sure, most will bite their tongue and deal with it, but this sort of policing will bring forth the worst in some people.

It would be better if they handled it in a similar manner as they did with rmt. For example a context menu on the names of your teammates after each match (select player -> report harassment). Needles to say it would have to be somewhat restricted (avoid spam reporting).
If reported and found guilty then NO CHAT FOR U!
Of course, this would probably rise other issues, and SE will probably avoid spending resources on a system like this.

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Originally Posted by Guesswhat

Well, I agree with OP. This may actually backfire. Sure, most will bite their tongue and deal with it, but this sort of policing will bring forth the worst in some people.

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Arent they also adding cross world chat? If thats the case, and its unrestricted, lol yes, this will backfire.

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Originally Posted by Myon88

Is there some reason you guys can't simply move to 4v4 fixed party Feast if you want real high level play with voice comms (which are mandatory for optimal performance anyway)? Like any game with both solo and premade queues, the solution to problems in solo is to queue premade so you can control who you're teamed up with.

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Nailed it! Said it before Feast came and will say it again: solo que will never EVER be truly competitive mode because of random element of player pickups, how many e-sport WC matches are PuG vs PuG? yeah its none for a reason. I opted out from solo feast because i knew it will be total mess like it always is no matter what game and i was right, also to me it seems solo q was made for more casual pvp players and light party was made for serious players but that didnt really workout so well in the end.

PS: If that CDC PF thing works in PvP then its totally possible to make proper light party teams even if they are not from same server so maybe SE is pushing competitive players towards premades with this chat change.

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Originally Posted by Synestra

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Edit: Nvm Im repeating you.

But yeah, heres hoping cross world partying applies to pvp too

think only way to cross world chat is to join someones grp? doubt too many ppl will go into PF purposefully looking for the description tag. " <t> get in here! i need to tear you a new one!" though who knows XD

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

k

If you want to type smth like that rip. The stuff you mentioned isnt smth that needs to be called out. You dont tell a tank when to lock down a healer etc. ppl know that or they dont no use to telling them while u type u do nothing for your team. Also they said "disabled chat during battle" I guess that means u can still use chat before the gate opens. People act like solo q needs alot of coordination but in fact it doesnt atm ppl either use macros for obvious stuff like "go back" when healer dies etc.. Most stuff ppl type is just toxic or "gg ty". You want to coordinate that much ? go light party with voice chat lel

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Lol, I'm not suggesting typing at length in the MIDDLE of a match. I'm not sure where you got that idea? I'm saying having a battle plan going in is helpful. I don't type in the middle of a match unless it's super necessary. And the few times I do say something, it's usually if we hit a wall and we seriously need to change up our strategy. People use quick macros for 'pull back' etc, which I assume is stuff SE will preserve. I've been doing arena-style MMO PvP for a looooong time, and a huge part of strategy in those games is exhausting people's cooldowns (particularly a healer's) and CC-locking people to land kills. This is why voice chat is so important when you can have it (so you can talk in real time). When you do party queues, calling hard switches can and does win a match. If you warn people on voice chat what is coming (we're going to hard switch to person X in 5 seconds), they can prepare their cooldowns to go in for a kill before the healer can react -- meanwhile the tank can be sure to hold their stuns so that there are no more diminishing returns on their target UNTIL they are ready to lock them down (first stun will be at the full duration, not a shortened length of time). In solo queue, that's really not possible to be as coordinated (due to lack of voice chat, and, as I said, no one is typing this stuff in real time), but having some sort of plan going in will be very helpful, particularly if *everyone* in your party understands the cooldowns at the other team's disposal. Some of this strategy CAN be taught/explained before a match, particularly if you know the people on the other team and how they tend to operate. But with SE taking away the ability to chat completely? Nope, I can't teach people. I can't explain things. It's really not conducive to a teaching environment.

Also, I've never used the arena chat to put someone down or insult them. I've definitely seen some toxicity in there, but again -- I think this change will hurt the PvP community more than it will help. In the lower ranks, you can get away with carrying if you have great dps and an okay healer, but once you start facing teams with really experienced players, simply following targets isn't going to be enough.

If you are right -- that you can still chat beforehand -- then great. I guess my previous comments don't apply. But I'm not sure how this will help the toxicity if you get matched with someone you're mad at from a previous match, and now you have a minute before the match starts to berate and insult them. I've gone into matches several times where a player will be like, "Great, X is here. I've lost five matches with this person today. They're awful. Get ready to lose." (Language cleaned up to avoid a forum ban, haha.) If chat is disabled only during battle, how will that help toxicity?

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Originally Posted by Synestra

Nailed it! Said it before Feast came and will say it again: solo que will never EVER be truly competitive mode because of random element of player pickups, how many e-sport WC matches are PuG vs PuG? yeah its none for a reason. I opted out from solo feast because i knew it will be total mess like it always is no matter what game and i was right, also to me it seems solo q was made for more casual pvp players and light party was made for serious players but that didnt really workout so well in the end.

PS: If that CDC PF thing works in PvP then its totally possible to make proper light party teams even if they are not from same server so maybe SE is pushing competitive players towards premades with this chat change.

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I agree with you here. Unfortunately, there are so few party players, at least on my datacenter, that you literally have to beg other people to form a second group just so you can queue up. I haven't done party queue extensively, but every time I do, it's almost always against the same team... over and over... PvP isn't 'big' enough to have a huge community where premade party play is really viable. But... that is really a problem that is way bigger than ingame communication. I would love if party play were more viable, but right now it's not. Maybe you are right -- that cross-server partying will help the PvP community.