I might get hate or banned but hey w/e

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Originally Posted by Ibi

Challenge means something completely different between the two games though.

FFXI's challenge was primarily in how inconvenient things were, rather than the actual battle content being difficult. That's not to say that all the fights were completely devoid of difficulty, but you could reasonably expect to get through even the toughest mission battles in less than a dozen attempts. The vast, vast majority of them wouldn't take more than two or three attempts..

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Uh...did you do the CoP story missions? Two-twelve attempts for some stuff maybe..but definitely not all of it. There were some very difficult story mission fights that you could get stuck on for weeks.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Don't need a XI-2 but the game could use a stronger community and not just enter DF not say anything do the run exit never seen those people again. XIV has a friendlist but for the most part it like gil it pretty useless most the time.

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i would be happy if we had also cross-server linkshells XD

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Originally Posted by Claymore65

That's not actually true. There was plenty besides the glitches and performance issues that was heavily criticized about 1.0. Everything from the heavy emphasis on Levequests, the EXP limits (and levequest limits), the extremely poorly designed UI, the slower combat, the lack of direction, and more was heavily criticized about the game on release. Just looking at some of the older reviews of 1.0 (it had a 49 on metacritic: http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/fi...asy-xiv-online ) complain about far more than simply the performance issues/bugs...although there are certainly many complaints about that.

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Lot of that (if not all of it) can be contributed to that fact it was unfinished to begin with as a main reason it failed.

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Originally Posted by Lulu89

So go play a RPG, not a MMO .... What is the point in playing solo on a ONLINE GAME.... -_-

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Socializing does not require grouping.

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Originally Posted by Miste

Uh...did you do the CoP story missions? Two-twelve attempts for some stuff maybe..but definitely not all of it. There were some very difficult story mission fights that you could get stuck on for weeks.

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I did.

I had a group that only ran on Saturdays, and it took us about five months to go from Phomiuna Aqueducts to finishing up, which we did about a month and a half after the last mission was added.

Obviously it's been a while, so may memory may be a little fuzzy, but I think there were only three fights that took us more than two attempts: Snoll Tzar, Tenzen, and the 8-3 fight against the four zdei. I think the last of those was the worst, with it taking us maybe eight or nine attempts before we finally got through it.

In all three cases, it was a lack of damage that caused our struggles, as our composition was paladin, ninja, thief, black mage, red mage, white mage.

I hear only on a couple servers (mainly Asura) is there a reasonably active community. When I started again a few years back though I found lots of endgame LS and game seemed doing well, can't remember primetime numbers, but iirc it was around 1300. However, that was 3 years ago now, as I quit when 14 came out because I could not do both. I recently went back but so much has changed and the need for scripts more then ever killed a lot of my interest. That and, while I do love the gear, going back now and trying to outfit your jobs for every action is just tiring when you have so many items and your inventory system incredibly archaic the experience is a bit meh. Though actually thought of restarting from 0 or perhaps looking into the FF11 private server where the level cap is maxed at 75.

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Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

Socializing does not require grouping.

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Imho I feel this game forces you more than XI to be in a group and not just any group - but a 'perfect' group. In XI the game was pretty lax despite needing a party. You could pretty much have just about anything in your party and if somebody died it wasn't the end of the world. Tbh, FFXI actually rewarded a lot of jobs for improvising and trying different combinations with their toolsets (Bluemage/Puppetmaster comes to mind). The game also was much solo friendly with certain jobs and those jobs still carried value in endgame for getting hard to get items. Summoner, Beastmaster, Puppetmaster etc. You could play through the whole game solo as these jobs, still contribute when in a group and were also very effective at soloing otherwise tough monsters for wonderful items that would last you your entire FFXI career on numerous other jobs.

Where as in XIV you don't get to solo unless it's purely for leveling. You have to always have a group if you want tomestones, you always have to have a group if you want to do a dungeon (3.0-wise), and most if not all of it requires you have the perfect meta. To make it even more annoying you're not even allowed to deviate from your assigned rotation for your job in this game. Pile that on with everyone having to be picture perfect with theirs. XIV= no weak links. No customization, no improvising. ever. At least if you're doing relevant content. It all just feels incredibly bureaucratic.

And as for gear and progession? What's the point? Everything we struggle to work for is thrown in the garbage 6 weeks later. It makes it insanely difficult to cherish any work that is put into anything. It's just constant little 5 minutes of glory feelings that are quickly forgotten 2 weeks later. It's really weird with this game. I've stuck with it since 1.0 Alpha and ever since 2.0 and onward it's just; I can't put my finger on it? I usually don't mind grinding, but in this game it is literally the same thing every single time. New content is just a reskin of what we've been doing for 3 years now. Not even FFXI despite its flaws made me feel this burnt out.

In the end I just feel like this game lacks a lot of the passion they put into their previous MMO in both content and community and that is what mostly irks me. Despite my griping I still continue to trudge on in hopes it will get better but who knows?

Personally, helping struggling new players learn how to perform their role in dungeons/seeing them improve and succeed, are all the challenge/reward I need. Hell, there's even a little gambling involved as to whether or not the person I try to help is receptive or a total snob. ;p

I used to solo FFXI all the time... as a fishertaru. I enjoyed supplying the moat carp quest, chatting up the LS, living vicariously through the stories I'd hear about all that content I didnt have hours of time to group up for.

Pretty sure it's Massive/Massively Multiplayer, not Mandatory Multiplayer.

I think we also forget the state of Squaresoft back in 2000. When FF11 was in development Squaresoft was a juggernaut. Probably one of, if not the most successful RPG video game publisher/developer in the industry at the time. They had so much assets to throw at 11 financially and developmentally. Then they released the Final Fantasy movie (which lost them so much money it almost bankrupt the company if not for the merger with Enix) and have been struggling to some degree ever since. With 14 2.0 they certainly had their hands tied a lot more and it shows by the small development team and constrained budget, couple with the fact that it's assumed that most of 14's revenue does not support 14 but supports 15 and its immense marketing budget and the 7 remake

That was a very interesting read, and before I go on I'll mention that I've never played XI so I can definitely be wrong with what I'm going to say.

I believe the article actually does have a bias of its own, since the writer seems to describe XI in from the perspective of a player new to MMOs, while criticism towards XIV demonstrates familiarity with basic mechanics. Difficulty is always a hard thing to address because as someone who hasn't played an MMORPG in years prior to this game, I found many of the concepts new and challenging in their own right; it's completely relative and dependent on the player's personal experiences.

In that regard, I too have reached out to other players within my party or otherwise for help and advice. Maybe not in the same way as described in XI, but it's more or less the same concept? Generally, I feel that forming a connection with other people is a burden on the player, just like in real life networking; the game's core design will only do so much to coax you into it.

Overall, I feel like XIV's design decisions exists so that it'll draw a wide audience into them. What if someone hasn't played an MMO before? Punishing them for reasons that require steps niche in appeal has a risk of turning someone away. What if the player's a shy individual who needs some time before being comfortable with with a group? Gating their experience so harshly by making grouping a requirement to progress is a turn-off. What if the player wants to experience a different aspect the game has to offer, like fashion, roleplaying or other more social-based activities? Making the core game too centered around having a solid grasp of mechanics in non-pvp-oriented areas is a turn-off.

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Originally Posted by Sparktacus

I'm really not sure why Abyssea was so hated but I know its a popular opinion. I rejoined after a big break right into Abyssea and I loved it. It finally made things easier to solo, AF3 was reasonable to achieve, and there were so many fun items to hunt for so when I logged in I had plenty of stuff to do. Though VW was there too and, well VW was amazing in every way.

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The reason Abyssea was so hated was because in it you can gain lvls like no tomorrow easlily lvl a lvl 30 job to 99 in 3 days doning nothing and it did not teach people to play their jobs at all much like the lazy players in XIV who get carried thru everything. Having the ability to lvl jobs that fast was a detriment to the endgame because these players who lvld that way never actually played the game in that respect and never worked for anything soon as you were 99 you basically just had to join a farm group for the Emp gear and weapons and you were fine.

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Originally Posted by Mikai

The reason Abyssea was so hated was because in it you can gain lvls like no tomorrow easlily lvl a lvl 30 job to 99 in 3 days doning nothing and it did not teach people to play their jobs at all much like the lazy players in XIV who get carried thru everything. Having the ability to lvl jobs that fast was a detriment to the endgame because these players who lvld that way never actually played the game in that respect and never worked for anything soon as you were 99 you basically just had to join a farm group for the Emp gear and weapons and you were fine.

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This also lead to people bitching about groups shells that would not let them in because of this instance. Its not like XIV where every tank job played the same or dps played the same or healer played the same each job in the game was vastly different from each other even with a few things changed between them it wasnt so easy to just pick up.

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Originally Posted by Ibi

I did.

I had a group that only ran on Saturdays, and it took us about five months to go from Phomiuna Aqueducts to finishing up, which we did about a month and a half after the last mission was added.

Obviously it's been a while, so may memory may be a little fuzzy, but I think there were only three fights that took us more than two attempts: Snoll Tzar, Tenzen, and the 8-3 fight against the four zdei. I think the last of those was the worst, with it taking us maybe eight or nine attempts before we finally got through it.

In all three cases, it was a lack of damage that caused our struggles, as our composition was paladin, ninja, thief, black mage, red mage, white mage.

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the airship fight is what it took most to my static .....snoll was easy took i think 2 attempts (i was smn at the times every used 2h > win) , my static was PLD(or nin) , RNG , WHM , SMN , WAR , dps (changed based around whats needed) , the airship fight was a pain in the rear ....after wiping and wiping we decided to go with a bard soul voice for the final boss and burn it down....

i repeated the whole thing with another static , pld, smn , sam (me) , blm , whm , blu

A3S took more attempts that the whole CoP :P

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Originally Posted by Mikai

The reason Abyssea was so hated was because in it you can gain lvls like no tomorrow easlily lvl a lvl 30 job to 99 in 3 days doning nothing and it did not teach people to play their jobs at all much like the lazy players in XIV who get carried thru everything. Having the ability to lvl jobs that fast was a detriment to the endgame because these players who lvld that way never actually played the game in that respect and never worked for anything soon as you were 99 you basically just had to join a farm group for the Emp gear and weapons and you were fine.

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Ah yes, the stripping of player skill. I mostly solod in Abyssea so this didn't affect me too much but yes I remember what you are talking about now. Going from months to level to days.

The style of XI that players remember is antiquated now. It doesn't really exist anymore. XI was the first MMO for a lot of players, especially console gamers. This brought a fresh experience that can really only happen once. I get the nostalgia. Believe me I do. I come to tears when I listen to the music from Gustaberg, which was the zone just outside my starting city of Bastok. It just brings so much back. Of course I would LOVE to experience those times again, but I know several years from now, the music from this game will bring back my first-time experiences with this game as well. Just different.

I don't miss aggro=death zones. It takes away an element that I believe should stay unique to dungeons. Eldieme Necropolis, Behemoth's Dominion, Phomiuna Aqueducts, The Promyvions, Beastmen strongholds... these are indeed places that are a good idea to bring some help for whatever it is you need to do in there. But getting aggroed and killed by the rabbit just outside of it? No thanks!

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Originally Posted by CrimsonThunder

We all acknowledge that FFXIV has problems, both on the dev side and on the player side. However, begging for the game to be like FFXI is just never going to happen, period.

Nor does it solve anything at all, me wishing that FFXIII was more like FFIX because I am utterly biased doesn't fix the reasons for why FFXIII sucks.

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Personally im not asking for this to be XI but bring things that made it so great. Most people hate grinding fates to lvl or dungeons and prefer being in a group for hours lvling on mobs(not hard to include in this game by any stretch) and like others stated XIV doesnt feel like a community in the sense that you dont get to really know people the way you did playing with them in XI. Small things that can easily be brought over from XI would make this game a hundred times better.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

When you compare the hardest content of both games, XIV wins in my opinion. The raid content is tuned to the max, but is contained within a small bubble concealed away from the sunshine and rainbows of the rest of the game, that is the difference. I don't want them to make the sunshine and rainbows disappear, I want the hardcore bubble to be bigger, with some midcore content scattered about.

I also think that XI's difficult is bad design though, so that might skew my view.

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No way Savage is not hard its time consuming honestly imo Savage is a sad attempt at endgame where as the endgame in XI was actually fun and not so much a hassle and if you actually got what you wanted it lasted you well over a year or 2 before you needed to replace it hell most gear lasted a full decade. In XIV you get a drop finally and it lasts you what 2 months?

No need to rehash everything I've always said about FFXI vs. FFXIV...but...I will say that to this day (despite not subscribing to 11 for years), I still read about every update, still randomly read the wiki (more so BGartr's now), and still check ffxiah.com daily. Lol. I adore FFXI, and it took three years of stopping/starting 14 to finally be at peace with the idea that it'll simply never be the same...yet still be enjoyable on its own merits. I do miss my BLU though. Yoshi P: make my FFXIV BLU dreams happen, please sir! ^^

Ffxiv is not ffxi. However you have to remember that ffxiv is about 3 years in and still has plenty of adjustments to be made. They can borrow some ideas from Xi but that style of MMO play does not work entirely well in this new generation of MMOs.

The key problem is people compare ffxi and ffxiv too much rather than accept them for what they are which are 2 different MMOs entirely.

Can you imagine if they brought the extremely dangerous open world that Xi had to ffxiv. I don't want to see ffxiv go to a F2P game because of bad choices

I wish the open world was more dangerous, personally. It's way too easy. Perhaps not all zones (as I agree...it's not kosher with today's audience). But maybe have some zones that are more challenging/dangerous...and require a modicum of preparation to traverse. Just my opinion, of course.

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

the airship fight is what it took most to my static .....snoll was easy took i think 2 attempts (i was smn at the times every used 2h > win) , my static was PLD(or nin) , RNG , WHM , SMN , WAR , dps (changed based around whats needed) , the airship fight was a pain in the rear ....after wiping and wiping we decided to go with a bard soul voice for the final boss and burn it down....

i repeated the whole thing with another static , pld, smn , sam (me) , blm , whm , blu

A3S took more attempts that the whole CoP :P

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Yeah, different compositions would have struggled with different things. We one-shot the Omega/Ultima airship, and I think we only had one death. We'd even had everyone farm up a CCB Polymer (the thing that you could use to stop them using TP moves for a minute) to be on the safe side and ended up only using three of the six.

A3S took my static (completely different people from my CoP static) 69 calendar days from when we first entered until we first cleared, raiding several nights a week. I don't even want to think about how long it's taken us to finally get to J-Waves in A8S.

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Originally Posted by Derio

Ffxiv is not ffxi. However you have to remember that ffxiv is about 3 years in and still has plenty of adjustments to be made. They can borrow some ideas from Xi but that style of MMO play does not work entirely well in this new generation of MMOs.

The key problem is people compare ffxi and ffxiv too much rather than accept them for what they are which are 2 different MMOs entirely.

Can you imagine if they brought the extremely dangerous open world that Xi had to ffxiv. I don't want to see ffxiv go to a F2P game because of bad choices

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Surely a happy medium can be achieved. I completely understand what you're saying... why should Dravanian Forelands be a pain in the ass when there are hunters wandering around catching Chocobos without a care in the world. On the other hand, why should I (back in 2.x) be able to casually stroll through the Amal'jaa Stronghold, their base of operations where their most elite soldiers live, without batting an eye and that's not even super overgeared or even level 50 necessarily. I went through that place like a wrecking ball to get the very first relic in lvl 50 gear.

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Originally Posted by Dement

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What do you mean by a "happy medium"?

Balance is hard. I know tons of people who have dungeon phobia because it's too hard or don't want to do anything because it's hard. If the world is hard, they'd surely quit. This game is really easy to pick up and play. So anything with a challenge too great for people will drive them away or prevent them from doing it.

There are people who never touched Gordias NM and 24man because of difficulty. There are people who ONLY craft/gather.

..anyway, if they made beast tribe areas harder, they'll probably be less players doing it from fear of the difficulty. SE doesn't want content to not be played because something is too hard or inconvenient. So they nerf it.

That said, I'd love if the oh-so dangerous beastmen put up more of a fight. Once you're lv47 you can beat everything in a stronghold.

HW strongholds literally serve no purpose. : / It's silly. The tribe quests don't have you do anything there.

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

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[MOBILE EDIT]
Fact is IMO, they probably shouldn't make FFXIV more like XI because the things in XI would seem inconvenient, too hard, or boring, etc by players of XI.

I guarantee a hard survival area with powerful enemies will be the least played content in the game.

I guarantee real-time airship/boat rides won't be used if they were added because the time spent would be an inconvenience.

I guarantee a class imbalance that allows Monks to tank bosses will get fixed really fast. Just like that SMN thing with Titan tanking Ramuh. People locked out real tanks from groups for DPS. Something like that would slide in XI, not XIV though.

I've never played XI. I was like...8 or 9 so I only base what I say off of what I hear.

Btw this post wasn't all for you Dement xD. I start winging it after the 3rd paragraph :p

Make FFXI free to play and easier to level and stuff and I guess add Cash Shop to keep it a float then I'll try it.
Just not going to sub for a dying game tbh. I honestly want to but I know it's kinda too late to do so.
I was too young to try it when it first came out and still was popular. :/
Game does look interesting in it's own way, almost moreso than XIV.

Btw for those interested in checking up on ffxi I will promise you, you will be overwhelmed with help from top players right now (on asura). Joined two login campaigns and people constantly bending over backward to help.

Anyways my other big gripe besides comparing Ffxiv 1.0 to ffxi-2 (just not true), is assuming Ffxiv has to be JUST like ffxi. Most of us realize, yeah a lot of content was over the top (relic grind, ect), we're just asking for comprimise. Sure the game shouldn't be a nightmare, but it could sure be a bit harder.

Was some of the NMs and their world insane famous drops a good idea? Eh.
Should there not be any real world NMs that drop gear because of it? Of course not. Again one of the few things FFXIV 1.0 did right (when yoshi took over mind you), was put NMs into the game that dropped decent, if not glamorish gear. Nothing OP or needed.

Should I have to die 12342342 times to get to Ishgard (like Juneo) as a player? That's just silly
Should I be able to run through end game areas on my level 12 derping around without a care in the world? Thats equally as silly.

Were some of the dungeons in FFXI a bit too much sometimes? Yes.
Should we have 0 real world dungeons or even the hint of a labyrinth as a result? Of course we can.

Like in The Dark Tower series, "the world has moved on." I think a lot of people, like myself, who loved FFXI just want to feel that magic again...because for some us it was our first MMO. I think 14 is an amazing achievement for Yoshi P and the team considering how poorly 1.0 was received. Although I have some qualms about certain elements in 14...it's still a hell of a game.

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Originally Posted by Mugiawara

Make FFXI free to play and easier to level and stuff and I guess add Cash Shop to keep it a float then I'll try it.
Just not going to sub for a dying game tbh. I honestly want to but I know it's kinda too late to do so.
I was too young to try it when it first came out and still was popular. :/
Game does look interesting in it's own way, almost moreso than XIV.

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It's about as easy and somewhat interesting of a way to level as it'll ever be right now. The introduction of the Trust system removed all need to party. In fact, the Trusts (alter egos of characters in the game that you can summon to fight at your side) are some of the best "party members" you'd ever get while you level lol. I never had pt members that could tank or dps as well as the Trusts can, back in the vanilla days. It's honestly not too late to experience the game if all you want to do is see why people regard the story and music as one of the best. They really toned down everything to make it more accessible, but it's not F2P, so your first criteria is still not met lol. There's still a lot of players on the game though, just FYI.

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Originally Posted by Windi

I could damn kill for a "dislike" button on this board. This is such a condescending, shitty reply completely devoid of any interest in opening dialogue.

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Well to be honest the person they quoted was just as equally condescending and devoid of any interest in opening a dialogue.

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Originally Posted by Derio

Ffxiv is not ffxi. However you have to remember that ffxiv is about 3 years in and still has plenty of adjustments to be made. They can borrow some ideas from Xi but that style of MMO play does not work entirely well in this new generation of MMOs.

The key problem is people compare ffxi and ffxiv too much rather than accept them for what they are which are 2 different MMOs entirely.

Can you imagine if they brought the extremely dangerous open world that Xi had to ffxiv. I don't want to see ffxiv go to a F2P game because of bad choices

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XI had up to Chains of Promathia on pack in its first three years. Most of the issues pertaining to the game were 'resolved' within the first year. The game added more and lasting content, where as XIV with HW alone, not so much.

I accept the two as completely different games. However, that does not mean I want to accept the sinking ship that is XIV because they wish to 'play it safe'. No one ever achieved greatness by playing it safe.

As for the dangerous open world in XIV...Why not? Least it would make the world "slightly" more alive in my opinion. Wouldn't be able to just ride by with my head in the clouds.

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Originally Posted by Windi

I could damn kill for a "dislike" button on this board. This is such a condescending reply completely devoid of any interest in opening dialogue.

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There doesn't need to be any dialogue. It's pretty much the perfect retort to what I was replying to and why that guy's attitude is terrible.

edit: Also that's not what condescending means.

Condescending is when you explain what things mean to a person in a way that assumes they don't know what it means when they should.

Kind of like how that last sentence would be, if you hadn't just proved you didn't understand what condescending means.

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Originally Posted by Lorielle

XI had up to Chains of Promathia on pack in its first three years. Most of the issues pertaining to the game were 'resolved' within the first year. The game added more and lasting content, where as XIV with HW alone, not so much.

I accept the two as completely different games. However, that does not mean I want to accept the sinking ship that is XIV because they wish to 'play it safe'. No one ever achieved greatness by playing it safe.

As for the dangerous open world in XIV...Why not? Least it would make the world "slightly" more alive in my opinion. Wouldn't be able to just ride by with my head in the clouds.

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I'm going through 2.x right now, and it is very reminiscent of XI through Chains, though nowhere near as difficult. But in terms of story, it is really awesome and I am really enjoying it. It lasts for me because I don't rocket through the content like a lot of other players, which is something that I think needs to taken into consideration when it comes to lasting content. I don't necessarily blame the devs here. When there is 100 MSQ's between Ultima and Ishgard, it's difficult for me to say the content isn't lasting content. I can't speak for HW but I know players speed through this as well.


I'm willing to compromise with dangerous open world content if they keep it reasonable. It should be challenging if there is a purpose in that particular zone, but if you're just trying to get from point A to point B, having your path literally blocked off by regular mobs is ridiculous. Not being able to solo a regular mob the same level as you is ridiculous. You shouldn't need high level help for that. The strongholds are a joke though, but I believe they used be more challenging and got nerfed. High level help was needed to get through those areas, and it seems that it was frowned upon. But could you imagine trying to get your rank up with the beast tribes if you need to group to traverse those areas? Total sh*t fest. This I assure you.

And I wouldn't call XIV a sinking ship just because your enjoyment isn't what it once was. Many subscribers are still well aboard, with new people joining all the time.

FFXI's dangerous open world areas were fun - but mostly because there were easy ways to navigate those dangerous areas with some degree of safety. Stealth spells and items were widely available to players, and these items made it relatively easy to navigate dangerous areas. There were a few monsters in the game that were unaffected by stealth items and spells, but these critters were generally located in places that players had no reason to go to solo anyway.

In this game, adding areas that are genuinely dangerous could wind up being frustrating, since there'd be no way to navigate them without grabbing a bunch of friends to slowly and wretchedly fight your way through! This could be remedied by adding consumable stealth items to the game, like Invisibility Potions or whatever, and making them non-functional in dungeons or any other place that it was felt would be abusable.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

edit: Also that's not what condescending means.

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Actually, YOU are wrong about what condescending means, or at least your variant is incomplete. From Dictionary.com:

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adjective

1. showing or implying a usually patronizing descent from dignity or superiority:

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In other words, speech or attitude that indicates that you hold the one you are addressing to be beneath you. Explanations don't have to be a part of it - though certainly they can be, if you deign to explain things to the lesser being you're addressing.

Your original quote that Windi was criticizing, AND your criticism of Windi were both reeking of condescension, no doubt about it!

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

What do you mean by a "happy medium"?

Balance is hard. I know tons of people who have dungeon phobia because it's too hard or don't want to do anything because it's hard. If the world is hard, they'd surely quit. This game is really easy to pick up and play. So anything with a challenge too great for people will drive them away or prevent them from doing it. There are people who never touched Gordias NM and 24man because of difficulty. There are people who ONLY craft/gather.

..anyway, if they made beast tribe areas harder, they'll probably be less players doing it from fear of the difficulty. SE doesn't want content to not be played because something is too hard or inconvenient. So they nerf it.

That said, I'd love if the oh-so dangerous beastmen put up more of a fight. Once you're lv47 you can beat everything in a stronghold.

HW strongholds literally serve no purpose. : / It's silly. The tribe quests don't have you do anything there.

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I guess I don't see it as hard to balance. Not every area of every zone has to be so hard you die the second you step into it. On the other hand not every section of every zone has to be faceroll easy to the point that the only real problem in game is when I get aggro while I'm gathering a node and that's just an inconvenience.

People's dungeon-phobia usually has less to do with the challenge than it does with their perception of being judged by their party. Even if they truly are afraid of challenges, I highly doubt they'd quit the game if 2 islands in Sea of Clouds or the beastment strongholds, or even the Allagan ship in Azys Lla held some modicum of challenge.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

But in terms of story, it is really awesome and I am really enjoying it. It lasts for me because I don\\'t rocket through the content like a lot of other players, which is something that I think needs to taken into consideration when it comes to lasting content. I don\\'t necessarily blame the devs here. When there is 100 MSQ\\'s between Ultima and Ishgard

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And honestly I think most will agree with you in terms of Ffxiv story and content of story. It\\'s good. Even if you don\\'t like the theme personally they put a lot of time and detail into it. HOWEVER as you said, most, including myself blasted through it. Is that the devs fault though? Yes, because you are able to completely blast through it. If you put no value in obtaining something (sales 101), there\\'s no value in it. In ffxi we remember the story cause each cutscenes was such a big reward for our hard work

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Originally Posted by Lulu89

Ya but it not the XI players QQing, it the new age gamers/kids

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I would have to disagree.

The XI players were once new age gamers/kids themselves now with jobs and families taking care of responsibilities. They don't have the time to enjoy the grinds as much as they use to. Also. Unlike the new age gamers and kids, the XI fans have far more MMORPG experience under their belt always making comparisons to older titles about how this game should be more like their childhood favorites. If anything, the old age gamers are likely complaining far more than the new age gamers with always trying to say how this game needs to be more like FFXI and WoW. New age gamers having played neither will think this game is fine the way it is, as it's most likely their first MMORPG. Just like how FFXI was the first MMORPG for many veteran gamers. This talk of people enjoying the grinds of XI and saying this game needs to be more like it is basically the same as an old person preaching, "Back in my day! We had ---!" Therefore, yes, the XI players are QQing, and rather quite often.

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Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido

I would have to disagree.

The XI players were once new age gamers/kids themselves now with jobs and families taking care of responsibilities. They don't have the time to enjoy the grinds as much as they use to. Also. Unlike the new age gamers and kids, the XI fans have far more MMORPG experience under their belt always making comparisons to older titles about how this game should be more like their childhood favorites. If anything, the old age gamers are likely complaining far more than the new age gamers with always trying to say how this game needs to be more like FFXI and WoW. New age gamers having played neither will think this game is fine the way it is, as it's most likely their first MMORPG. Just like how FFXI was the first MMORPG for many veteran gamers. This talk of people enjoying the grinds of XI and saying this game needs to be more like it is basically the same as an old person preaching, "Back in my day! We had ---!" Therefore, yes, the XI players are QQing, and rather quite often.

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It's honestly not so much that one side is more than the other. People in general, regardless of age or experience, spout closed minded drivel about what is the right and wrong way to do something. From what I can tell, at least by ratio of seeing personally, most of the "back in my day" chatter comes in response to QQ by other players. Whether or not those folks are also XI/WoW vets is unknown and irrelevant on that aspect. Sure, we have the topics that are about what would be good to see in this game, but those are closer to general wants than they are complaints, although they do go hand in hand sometimes. Depending on the content of the topic, I really don't see too many QQ threads referencing old games as a form of straight up complaining, unlike the QQ threads that pop up frequently demanding things, not having any reference to XI/WoW/etc.

The new age gamers that's being singled out here are of the new age mentality. These are the ones who actually read Yoshida's statement about meeting players lagging behind and him picking up the slack for them as a laughable matter and just outright question why someone would find that acceptable. Even some people of old school mentality may find that difficult to understand. Both parties have similar thinking people. I just look at it like those specific type of old timers essentially paved the way for the new age of first world complaints. What was highly regarded as improper or illogical then, is seen as acceptable now (though maybe not endorsed).

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Originally Posted by Keramory

HOWEVER as you said, most, including myself blasted through it. Is that the devs fault though? Yes, because you are able to completely blast through it.

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This is wrong. That's almost like saying it's not your fault for robbing that person because you found a way to hack their security codes. It's their fault for allowing you the chance of hacking.

It is entirely on you if you blow the story and content then run out of things to do. Just like it is entirely on you if you try to complete a 4 month grind in 2 days and suffer burnout.

No one is telling you to rush the story except yourself. Which is your choice. You run out of content, that's your consequence.

Ew, that nostalgia-filled article?

That writer should get a write-up honestly, very poor and overly-biased look. XI was great for its time, but by todays standards, and even the standards of people who don't have the means to play a game like a second job, it was horrible. People need to accept that those days of MMOs are gone for good.

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

This is wrong. That's almost like saying it's not your fault for robbing that person because you found a way to hack their security codes. It's their fault for allowing you the chance of hacking.

It is entirely on you if you blow the story and content then run out of things to do. Just like it is entirely on you if you try to complete a 4 month grind in 2 days and suffer burnout.

No one is telling you to rush the story except yourself. Which is your choice. You run out of content, that's your consequence.

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I couldn't help but think of this scene from Arrested Development with the statement you quoted.