Broadened Difficulty Settings For All Dungeons?

Here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...iculty-Scaling

We've fought over this already.

As a midcore player, I disagree.

Not all content should be doable by everyone. Everyone already has equal accessibility, it's just a matter of how much time you can invest. (Casual, Midcore, Hardcore)

Casual players should not be able to do Hardcore content because a Hardcore player is putting more time and effort into their playing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alerith

As a midcore player, I disagree.

Not all content should be doable by everyone. Everyone already has equal accessibility, it's just a matter of how much time you can invest. (Casual, Midcore, Hardcore)

Casual players should not be able to do Hardcore content because a Hardcore player is putting more time and effort into their playing.

---

A lot of casual players just don't have time to invest in these instance dungeons. With difficulty settings they can just enjoy the content and have fun while getting xp. Of course they wouldn't get the high end drops, they would have to re challenge these contents at a higher level.

Mid and High level players would just have more of an option and variety for leveling. Content won't be outdated, you can enjoy them again for xp, fun, challenge, farm, grind etc.

I think its a great addition for eveyone. I do understand not eveyone would utilize this option, but a lot would if it was in the game.

I don't recall the exact words but yoshida said mmo games should be like an amusement park , and it should have things for everyone to do.

Casual and harcore players would go into the park with different motives. Casuals would play for fun, to have fun, while hardcore would try to beat everyones score and win the biggest teddybear to have bragging rights. The beauty of this amusement park saying, is that everyone is enjoying the same content, just in different ways, and for different things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Engineer

A lot of casual players just don't have time to invest in these instance dungeons. With difficulty settings they can just enjoy the content and have fun while getting xp. Of course they wouldn't get the high end drops, they would have to re challenge these contents at a higher level.

Mid and High level players would just have more of an option and variety for leveling. Content won't be outdated, you can enjoy them again for xp, fun, challenge, farm, grind etc.

I think its a great addition for eveyone. I do understand not eveyone would utilize this option, but a lot would if it was in the game.

I don't recall the exact words but yoshida said mmo games should be like an amusement park , and it should have things for everyone to do.

Casual and harcore players would go into the park with different motives. Casuals would play for fun, to have fun, while hardcore would try to beat everyones score and win the biggest teddybear to have bragging rights. The beauty of this amusement park saying, is that everyone is enjoying the same content, just in different ways, and for different things.

---

They're instanced. You do them at your own time. I see the benefit of trying to beat something together in several tries and get drops as you do it, as opposed to running it once in easy mode and getting nothing.

The thrill of the hunt is supposed to be the enjoyment part and has nothing to do with seggregating us between hardcore or casual players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Answa

They're instanced. You do them at your own time. I see the benefit of trying to beat something together in several tries and get drops as you do it, as opposed to running it once in easy mode and getting nothing.

The thrill of the hunt is supposed to be the enjoyment part and has nothing to do with seggregating us between hardcore or casual players.

---

All the suggestion is , is making all instanced dungeon content available to different level ranges, so players can enjoy all dungeon content when, and how they want to. They can enjoy it regardless if its for fun, xp, challenge, loot, bragging rights wtc. Whatever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Engineer

I think each dungeon should have customizable difficulty settings. This way content will never be outdated, and payers should have things to do no matter what level.

OPTION 1

The Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak. (easy) lv 10+ (normal) lv 25+ (hard) lv 40+

Dzemael Darkhold. (easy) 15+ (normal) 30+ (hard) 45+

or OPTION 2.

The Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak. (slider) [lv 1-50]

Dzemael Darkhold. (slider) [lv 1-50]

So in option 1, there are 3 different difficulty settings for each dungeon that are geared toward low, mid, and high levels.

In option 2, we have more of a broadened guild leve difficulty settings. We can choose what dungeon we want to play in, and set the level of the mobs.

Lower Settings = basic mob loot drops, and gil.

ADDITION



I totaly agree with this idea.

---

I agree with none of this, go away. You want to do darkhold at level 15?... What?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dalmore

What your asking for is low lvl content yes we need more low to mid lvl content but making endgame stuff available for all lvls is not the answer. If a "casual" doesnt have time to hit 50 (at the games current lvling rate can take less than a week) or cant be bothered to hit 50. you think they should be able to do stuff we bust our asses to do endgame? seriously?

---

So what you're saying is we need more low to mid lvl content, but you're against giving low and mid lvl ppl content because they didnt work hard and get to lv50? I mean its not like were giving them the high lvl drops or anything, just allowing them to have fun and do something besides grind.

What is it with people wanting to do level 50 stuff at a lower level/easier difficulty.

The point in Ifrit (and other high level content) being "Hard Mode" and level 50 for that matter is to:
1.) Give you one (of many) reasons to level up to 50 (hopefully on multiple classes).
2.) Once level 50, provide you with a challenge to enjoy and overcome thus providing you with weapons you can feel proud of.


You want to battle Ifrit? You want to do Darkhold? Get level 50, get into a good Linkshell, and go to it.
People really need to stop expecting everything to be handed to them "whenever,however,wherever".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SirOleas

What is it with people wanting to do level 50 stuff at a lower level/easier difficulty.

The point in Ifrit (and other high level content) being "Hard Mode" and level 50 for that matter is to:
1.) Give you one (of many) reasons to level up to 50 (hopefully on multiple classes).
2.) Once level 50, provide you with a challenge to enjoy and overcome thus providing you with weapons you can feel proud of.


You want to battle Ifrit? You want to do Darkhold? Get level 50, get into a good Linkshell, and go to it.
People really need to stop expecting everything to be handed to them "whenever,however,wherever".

---

personally the reason why "I" want difficulty settings, is because i hate when content becomes outdated. At a higher level(currently38) i would like to play upscaled old content for fun or/and xp. I would like to maybe challenge myself and go at it with a friend or 2. I like playing for fun, and hate doing the same stuff over and over, i like variety.

I was just defending the casual/low level players, because they have a right to play these contents too. It really baffles me why hardcore players care what someone else is doing with their play time, let them have fun. Who cares what theyre doing, why does it bother you?

players should have a right to play when, how, and what they wanna play in a game.

As a midcore player, this game is being ruined not by, casuals, but by players that define themselves through elitism.

Quote:

---

I don't recall the exact words but yoshida said mmo games should be like an amusement park , and it should have things for everyone to do.

---

I agree. MMOs should be similar to an amusement park, but you do not walk into an amusement park and get to choose how fast the roller coaster goes, you just have the option to ride it. There are kiddy roller coasters, water rides, then the hard core roller coasters that go upside down and loop several times. You choose what to do and when, but if you're five years old, stay off the advanced roller coaster and if you're 25, you probably will not enjoy the kiddy coaster.

edit: and if all the development team can come up with to keep me interested in this game is rehashing all dungeons so i can do them whether i am level 1 or level 50+, what a sad sad day in eorzea. This will bring about more boredom than you can imagine. Just imagine when a new dungeon is released. You play it for weeks and weeks. Suddenly, rather than release another dungeon, they raise the level cap and make the old dungeon scalable... wow... boooooooring. In the other spectrum, walking into a high level dungeon as a low level to 'level up'- after grinding there for so many days, weeks, etc, how are you going to want to go back, to actually attempt the dungeon as it should have been. You can't have your cake and eat it to. There are leves, places to grind, and things to do along the way. There is plenty of fun to be had, and more coming.

Patience is a virtue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Engineer

I don't recall the exact words but yoshida said mmo games should be like an amusement park , and it should have things for everyone to do.

Casual and harcore players would go into the park with different motives. Casuals would play for fun, to have fun, while hardcore would try to beat everyones score and win the biggest teddybear to have bragging rights. The beauty of this amusement park saying, is that everyone is enjoying the same content, just in different ways, and for different things.

---

Close.

Keeping in with the amusement park example:

Some rides have height requirements.
Some rides have age requirements.
Some games require more skill than others.

By that example, the current model works just fine, as there is something for everyone, but not everything is for everyone, which is as it should be.

A kid who is too short to ride the Top Thrill Dragster (A casual who can't fight the real Ifrit) shouldn't complain that they need to make an identical ride scaled to their height. (As a casual player shouldn't expect an endgame fight to be scaled to them.)

Casual players shouldn't be able to do the content, at all, if they can't put the time in to do it at it's appropriate level and difficulty. There is still plenty of other things for Casuals to do because, as we agree, it's an amusement park.

Can we get a mod to close this thread already?

Everything was already said in the last 50 page thread on the exact same subject.

Capped Dungeon, could it be the solution?* Choosing level difficulty is for offline game, not for a MMORPG.

*
With really usefull equipments...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Engineer

personally the reason why "I" want difficulty settings, is because i hate when content becomes outdated. At a higher level(currently38) i would like to play upscaled old content for fun or/and xp. I would like to maybe challenge myself and go at it with a friend or 2. I like playing for fun, and hate doing the same stuff over and over, i like variety.

I was just defending the casual/low level players, because they have a right to play these contents too. It really baffles me why hardcore players care what someone else is doing with their play time, let them have fun. Who cares what theyre doing, why does it bother you?

players should have a right to play when, how, and what they wanna play in a game.


As a midcore player, this game is being ruined not by, casuals, but by players that define themselves through elitism.

---

There is not any dated content to be allowing selectable difficulty for. You are still too low to accomplish any of it is the problem.

Hard content is a right of passage. It is a way to define great players who have honed their skills and spent time leveling multiple classes in preparation for difficult encounters. "Elite" players who have put in the -time- and -effort- will see this content defeated long before someone who has not accomplished level 50 on a single class yet. As I said in my last post, this content is to motivate people like yourself to reach level cap to experience the content.

In stead, people come to these forums and complain endlessly about how it's too hard, or how it takes too long for them to reach the content that they desire to play. And that they should ignore their high level players who seek a challenge in favor of people who can't be bothered to even reach level cap, much less learn a battle once they are at said level cap.

It's not hard core "elite" players who are ruining this game and I am tired of hearing it. It's not casuals or "midcores" ruining the game either. In fact, the game has improved due to ALL of us as a community. We balance each other out fairly well even if most people don't realize it.

This game has flopped because SE made mistakes in it's development and rushed it out the door. Not anyone who plays the game. As a community we need to quit placing blame on the players and their play styles as the root cause of why this game is not as successful as we all hoped.

Unfortunately for you, you chose to blame other "elite" players for this game's current issues so the majority of your ideas are flawed with a bias.

As for everyone having a right to play content that is offered in XIV: They sure do and they always will but they need to reach the correct level to unlock said content.

There is not a single game on the market that will let you skip to the end without playing through the entire game. Why should this be any different?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alerith

Close.



Some rides have height requirements.
Some rides have age requirements.
Some games require more skill than others.

---

Last time I checked, there was no such requirement on ffxiv. :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SirOleas

There is not any dated content to be allowing selectable difficulty for. You are still too low to accomplish any of it is the problem.

Hard content is a right of passage. It is a way to define great players who have honed their skills and spent time leveling multiple classes in preparation for difficult encounters. "Elite" players who have put in the -time- and -effort- will see this content defeated long before someone who has not accomplished level 50 on a single class yet. As I said in my last post, this content is to motivate people like yourself to reach level cap to experience the content.

In stead, people come to these forums and complain endlessly about how it's too hard, or how it takes too long for them to reach the content that they desire to play. And that they should ignore their high level players who seek a challenge in favor of people who can't be bothered to even reach level cap, much less learn a battle once they are at said level cap.

It's not hard core "elite" players who are ruining this game and I am tired of hearing it. It's not casuals or "midcores" ruining the game either. In fact, the game has improved due to ALL of us as a community. We balance each other out fairly well even if most people don't realize it.

This game has flopped because SE made mistakes in it's development and rushed it out the door. Not anyone who plays the game. As a community we need to quit placing blame on the players and their play styles as the root cause of why this game is not as successful as we all hoped.

Unfortunately for you, you chose to blame other "elite" players for this game's current issues so the majority of your ideas are flawed with a bias.

As for everyone having a right to play content that is offered in XIV: They sure do and they always will but they need to reach the correct level to unlock said content.

There is not a single game on the market that will let you skip to the end without playing through the entire game. Why should this be any different?

---

I'm not trying to take anything away from the the high level players, and nothing would be taken away since your very hard content will still be there with your awesome drops. Just by making low level dungeons have a harder difficulty, and higher level dungeons have a lower difficulty will increase the fun factor for the game. XIV will be a lot more accessible making all dungeon playable just with a few friends instead of an 8 man party.

like when totorak first came out, I didn't want to go in with 4 players, I just want to go in with a 2 friends. I knew I wasn't going to beat it, I just wanted to play it for fun, and get xp along the way.


Everyone is not playing the game for the same reasons. Some want awesome gear drops, some want to have fun, and some want both. Why can't people enjoy the same content geared to all the factors?

Low level versions of the high dungeons wouldn't have the high level fancy gear drops, just normal drops.

High level versions of the low level would have high level mobs, so you would get normal drops from them.

Its just another place to enjoy the game and xp.

High level players would still have their bragging rights, because they finished the content on the max level, and got the gear to show for it.

So someone answer me this. WHY DO YOU CARE WHAT SOMEONE ELSE DOES IN THEIR PLAY TIME? WHY DO YOU CARE HOW THEY PLAY, AND WHAT THEY DO? WHY DOES IT BOTHER YOU?

To answer your last question:

I think most people seem to care because to them an MMO is supposed to be an even playing field where play style/skill and understanding of the game's mechanics shines through.

Making easier versions of every encounter takes away from that in a way:
Why should you get to encounter Ifrit if you haven't put in the time/effort to unlock the encounter?
Simply because you're bored and don't want to level?
Drops are the main motivation for some (maybe even most) "hard core" players, but being able to experience the Ifrit battle is also it's very own reward for spending time leveling/questing etc. People who have not (or refuse) to level and become stronger need not face such a foe until they are worthy of the encounter.

Development Side:
Why should the developers (at this current stage in rebuilding the game) spend the extra time making multiple instances of the same encounter yet coded differently so that people who have not yet (or refuse) to reach level cap when they could (and are) focused on making a better FFXIV period?

Keeping in mind the content in the game currently is really just to satisfy most players while they rebuild the game.

Low/Mid level content:
Totorak
Public dungeon

High level content:
Darkhold
Ifrit

My memory is not perfect but it seems pretty even in terms of content added for low/mid vs high level players since the development team changes.

I dont agree with any ideas that you mentioned.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Synthesis

I dont agree with any ideas that you mentioned.

---

Who is "you"?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Engineer

I think each dungeon should have customizable difficulty settings. This way content will never be outdated, and payers should have things to do no matter what level.

OPTION 1

The Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak. (easy) lv 10+ (normal) lv 25+ (hard) lv 40+

---

We have already something like this
(easy) lv40+ (normal) lv25+ (hard) lv25+ with 2 member party

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Llewelyn

Ooh, yeah, I'd love to see not only Level Sync, but Level Caps. Like in XI - low level content remains challenging, and there's actually a reason to hang onto old gear.

---

OMG PLEASE NO LEVEL SYNC AND ESPECIALLY NO LEVEL CAPS!

Worst thing ever is hanging on to lower level gear cluttering up space so you can do stuff that limits your level. Whats worse is completing it yourself and having friends ask you to help which you respond by saying "Sorry no gear" or having to actually go buy some gear on the fly so you dont look selfish. Level Sync produced bad players in 11. Underskilled and only having killed worms for 30-40 levels.

I for one like it the way it is. There is level 15 dungeon in limsa now that I explored on my 50. Its a nice dungeon with good amount of mobs and decent loot. It even has a cool looking boss type. There is Toto-Rak that also has a good set of loot for low level jobs and it only requires 2 people to go in. You can go in as a 50 and destroy everything and help others get loot.

Then you got Darkhold and Ifrit which is reserved for the higher levels. Like a reward for reaching 50 you get access to more content. Ugh I think I lost my train of thought...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Can we get a mod to close this thread already?

Everything was already said in the last 50 page thread on the exact same subject.

---

I am gonna have to agree with you doc...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SirOleas

To answer your last question:

I think most people seem to care because to them an MMO is supposed to be an even playing field where play style/skill and understanding of the game's mechanics shines through.

Making easier versions of every encounter takes away from that in a way:
Why should you get to encounter Ifrit if you haven't put in the time/effort to unlock the encounter?
Simply because you're bored and don't want to level?
Drops are the main motivation for some (maybe even most) "hard core" players, but being able to experience the Ifrit battle is also it's very own reward for spending time leveling/questing etc. People who have not (or refuse) to level and become stronger need not face such a foe until they are worthy of the encounter.

Development Side:
Why should the developers (at this current stage in rebuilding the game) spend the extra time making multiple instances of the same encounter yet coded differently so that people who have not yet (or refuse) to reach level cap when they could (and are) focused on making a better FFXIV period?

Keeping in mind the content in the game currently is really just to satisfy most players while they rebuild the game.

Low/Mid level content:
Totorak
Public dungeon

High level content:
Darkhold
Ifrit

My memory is not perfect but it seems pretty even in terms of content added for low/mid vs high level players since the development team changes.

---

The way your looking at it is, "i dont want low level people playing my hard earned content".

Look at it this way. If a level 50 player wanted more challenge out of the game he has to keep waiting for that 1 new dungeon to be released periodicaly, right? then the dungeon is completed over and over. When the level cap is increased, those dungeons that you did at 50 would be pretty pointless to do again because your now a higher level. Now, what if SE simply made a new difficulty settingfor those dungeons with each cap increase with upscaled rewards, wouldnt there be more variety?

They can even add more mobs, more bosses, whatever it may be. The data is already there, all they are doing is scaling the mobs up and moving things around. easy. there would always be a variety of things to do at cap so dungeons are always in use, and always have a harder mode when level caps are increased. would you be satisfied with this approach? if dungeon wasnt made easier but only a harder versions are released? so content cant be scaled down but up?

Well, it's clearly a question to try and get me to say yes. Lol
I have always been a fan of reaching the goal by doing what you must to accomplish the feat. I don't see a point in scaling content up or down; You do what you must to become strong enough to accomplish the next step in your personal experience... That's what I love about MMO's. Everyone has their own pace and will eventually reach a level to vanquish stronger foes. Wanting it scaled down (or up) to me signifies a lack of content to keep everyone engaged in the game.

To me the scaling comes in when more content is released, not multiple versions of the same thing. You reach the proper level to experience that content...Level cap raises and you move onto new higher level content. Realistically in a successful MMO there would always be people to enjoy the lower level content regardless of difficulty scaling. Even Ifrit will become "low level" content eventually when the level cap is raised.

The issue we have now is that there simply is not enough content for people who are already max level...And the content released is beaten in days after release, so things feel stagnant in between content releases during this rebuilding phase of FFXIV. This is compounded by the fact that there is not enough in between content...what I mean by that is that there is no content to focus on between 1-30 and 35-45, all there really is, is side quests, leve quests, crafting, storyline quests, and exp parties...which is content in it's own way but it's not considered an Ifrit battle, or Totorak, or Darkhold.

I'm not saying that it's not fathomable, I just don't think that it's needed....

What's needed is more content with enjoyable time sinks....Ifrit is easy once you learn it (scaling be damned)hell~it's even an enjoyable fight with the lag.. it's the built in time sink that makes everyone want to rip their eyes out...That time sink being the randomization of gear obtained from the chest. No one wants 4 Ifrit's Blades....but they sure as hell will get them, and duplicate drops of other weapons before they actually get anything they want. Unless you're incredibly lucky and get it quickly.

SE is trying to slow the pace of their players in annoying ways, rather than introducing enjoyable experiences that are fun to repeat. They need to think harder than "slow the player base down at any cost"

Scaling content would just be something that perplexed most players as it's just another time sink...but mainly because SE needs to do better than scaling, and many other things they have already attempted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SirOleas

Well, it's clearly a question to try and get me to say yes. Lol
I have always been a fan of reaching the goal by doing what you must to accomplish the feat. I don't see a point in scaling content up or down; You do what you must to become strong enough to accomplish the next step in your personal experience... That's what I love about MMO's. Everyone has their own pace and will eventually reach a level to vanquish stronger foes. Wanting it scaled down (or up) to me signifies a lack of content to keep everyone engaged in the game.

To me the scaling comes in when more content is released, not multiple versions of the same thing. You reach the proper level to experience that content...Level cap raises and you move onto new higher level content. Realistically in a successful MMO there would always be people to enjoy the lower level content regardless of difficulty scaling. Even Ifrit will become "low level" content eventually when the level cap is raised.

The issue we have now is that there simply is not enough content for people who are already max level...And the content released is beaten in days after release, so things feel stagnant in between content releases during this rebuilding phase of FFXIV. This is compounded by the fact that there is not enough in between content...what I mean by that is that there is no content to focus on between 1-30 and 35-45, all there really is, is side quests, leve quests, crafting, storyline quests, and exp parties...which is content in it's own way but it's not considered an Ifrit battle, or Totorak, or Darkhold.

I'm not saying that it's not fathomable, I just don't think that it's needed....

What's needed is more content with enjoyable time sinks....Ifrit is easy once you learn it (scaling be damned)hell~it's even an enjoyable fight with the lag.. it's the built in time sink that makes everyone want to rip their eyes out...That time sink being the randomization of gear obtained from the chest. No one wants 4 Ifrit's Blades....but they sure as hell will get them, and duplicate drops of other weapons before they actually get anything they want. Unless you're incredibly lucky and get it quickly.

SE is trying to slow the pace of their players in annoying ways, rather than introducing enjoyable experiences that are fun to repeat. They need to think harder than "slow the player base down at any cost"

Scaling content would just be something that perplexed most players as it's just another time sink...but mainly because SE needs to do better than scaling, and many other things they have already attempted.

---

This is the Time sink that i would enjoy, lets say you beat ifrit and get the weapon drop that you want.

Ifrit's Blade, level 50.

Now the weapon has its own xp bar that goes up from obtaining xp.

After a certain point it has the ability to be upgraded. know you have to fight Ifrit again, and upon doing so you, your weapon turns to an Ifrit Blade +1.

This can be repeated up until Ifrits Blade +5 or so.

Lets say the level cap increases to level 60, and SE make a level 60 ifrit fight. When you take your Ifrit blade +5 to Kill Ifrit at level 60, the sword evolves into lets say Ifrits Scimitar, Level 60. The ifrits Scimtiar is level 60 now, and can be upgraded to +5 the same way.

Yoshida has talked about ways to upgrade key weapons. My suggestion makes sense, and for a fun time sink, giving max level players things to do.

I think Content scaled up will appeal to alot of people, if done right. Some players can play for fun, some players can upgrade thier favorite gear, and overall will give players things to do with a fun time sink.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Engineer

This is the Time sink that i would enjoy, lets say you beat ifrit and get the weapon drop that you want.

Ifrit's Blade, level 50.

Now the weapon has its own xp bar that goes up from obtaining xp.

After a certain point it has the ability to be upgraded. know you have to fight Ifrit again, and upon doing so you, your weapon turns to an Ifrit Blade +1.

This can be repeated up until Ifrits Blade +5 or so.

Lets say the level cap increases to level 60, and SE make a level 60 ifrit fight. When you take your Ifrit blade +5 to Kill Ifrit at level 60, the sword evolves into lets say Ifrits Scimitar, Level 60. The ifrits Scimtiar is level 60 now, and can be upgraded to +5 the same way.

Yoshida has talked about ways to upgrade key weapons. My suggestion makes sense, and for a fun time sink, giving max level players things to do.

I think Content scaled up will appeal to alot of people, if done right. Some players can play for fun, some players can upgrade thier favorite gear, and overall will give players things to do with a fun time sink.

---

Idea's on the forum are getting worse and worse as of late.... no offense... but F**K no.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RemVye

Idea's on the forum are getting worse and worse as of late.... no offense... but F**K no.

---

No sais you? Lol

Your immaturity has been getting worse and worse as of late.