Deep dungeon - hmmm

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Originally Posted by Raim

I know people hate the whole 'carrot on a stick mentality' but the longevity of this system and its content are based around providing incentives.

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I think they did good in the incentive department, theres 2 minions and a mount that give people incentive to run it at least 16 times... But I just feel it's a bit too easy, especially since it rewards lvl 235 weapons. It's easier than the regular dungeons we have now.I think this would have been a good opportunity to give ppl more endgame stuff to do besides grinding tomes and savage (which no1 does). Just kind of feels like a missed opportunity. I know there are more floors coming that are suppose to be more challenging, but god knows how long till that happens. And doesn't nullify the fact you will have to beat the 50-100 easy floors to get to the hard ones :(

The content itself is decent imo.

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Originally Posted by Icepick823

It's barely like Nyzul. The only only thing they have in common is random layout. That's it. Bosses in Nyzul were harder. There were more challenges and objectives. Here, it's just kill a bunch of mobs. Rinse and repeat. Deep dungeon isn't bad, but it's lacking. Honestly, I'm getting real tired of "story" content being so easy. Just stop it. It doesn't need to be savage difficulty, but there's no reason why this couldn't be a challenge.

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Was Nyzul soloable?
How I see the difficulty in PofD:
4 man party - easy mode (if you just want to rush through it)
solo - challenge (have to think about how to pull, have potions ready to use, have to use the pomandes more often)

Don't know how it is with 2 man

To be fair, much of Nyzul's time required had less to do with the difficulty of the content then the restrictive time restraints between time you could actually do it. Often times even with a good team it was extremely possible to get nailed to the floor by a bad set of RNG elements where you ended up with order lamps on multiple floors in a row.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Was Nyzul soloable?
How I see the difficulty in PofD:
4 man party - easy mode
solo - challenge

Don't know how it is with 2 man

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I found it changelling with 2. The first 20 level were kinda facerolling, but The dificulty spiked at the start of 21 floor. We had to be more carefull and nearly ran out of time. I miss auto res...

My problem with palace of the dead is it has fallen into the same problem as diadem, it has some interesting ideas but they didn't add any variety to objectives, once again it's just kill all enemies and move on.

In ffxi each floor of nyzul isle had a different objective, like a puzzle where you had to activate lamps in a sequence, or kill a specific enemy or kill a mini boss or bonus objectives like avoid being spotted by certain enemies, there could also be notorious monsters on random floors and if you killed them they dropped a chest with a special weapon inside.

Stuff like this could easily have been used, like having a wanted target appear on random floors that 100% drops a blue chest. This is better than diadem but once again I think they missed an opportunity to make it better.

My complaints are that you gain levels so quickly and the floors are too short and very straight forward...I mean if you're going to do this type of content why not look at XI and see how it was implemented and improve on its design...

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Originally Posted by Allistar

My complaints are that you gain levels so quickly and the floors are too short and very straight forward...I mean if you're going to do this type of content why not look at XI and see how it was implemented and improve on its design...

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How many floors had Nyzul?

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Originally Posted by Allistar

My complaints are that you gain levels so quickly and the floors are too short and very straight forward...I mean if you're going to do this type of content why not look at XI and see how it was implemented and improve on its design...

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Honestly I think people are overselling Nyzul Isle to be a better designed event then it actually was.

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Originally Posted by Fuma

How's the exp in there? Is it comparable to just leveling a job in dungeons or considerably less?

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As a level 56 1-10 gives 270k exp with the 50% exp boost from it being an alt-job.

Did whole thing twice. Kill, kill, kill, repeat. At least in Diadem you could be watching TV during that (or mind your own business). Same concept, challenging or not. Nothing new, nothing interesting. I guess SE FFXIV team just isn't capable of creating involving content.

For me it was "make or break". So I wish best luck to all who is staying.

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Honestly I think people are overselling Nyzul Isle to be a better designed event then it actually was.

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Agree. It had like five objectives that were rotated through 100 floors. Once you learned the handful of objectives, it was pretty much only about the boss fights.

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Originally Posted by Draginhikari

Honestly I think people are overselling Nyzul Isle to be a better designed event then it actually was.

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Seen a few posts asking what nyzul was from those not from 11 so I'll detail it here.

Nyzul isle was a randomly generated dungeon with 100 floors. You went in with 3-6 party members (this has been changed to 1-6 members due to people not being able to find groups and being way overgeared for it).

You had 30 mins to climb as many floors as you could, your data would be recorded once you ended the run. So if you entered at floor 1 and got to floor 10 then left, next time you could start at floor 10 and go up, but if you cleared it really fast you could go up to say, floor 15, then leave and next time start at floor 15. You could only record floors that were multiples of 5, so if you left at floor 13, you would still only record up to floor 10 so next time you'd start at floor 11.

When you entered you spawned at the runic portal. Every floor had a different objective. These included:
-kill all enemies
Kill all enemies...
-kill specified enemy
One enemy or group of enemies on the floor would be special and you had to kill all those enemies to progress to the next floor (e.g. Kill all bunnies).
-kill enemy leader
A special mini boss monster would spawn on the floor you had to find and kill it.
-activate all lamps
There were 3 different modes to the lamp floors. Either 1 lamp that everyone had to touch to complete the objective. Order lamps where you had to activate them in the correct sequence to complete the objective. And timed lamps where everyone had to activate their lamps at the same time to complete the objective.
-free floor
No objective, you can just go straight up to the next floor!

There was also random bonus objectives and debuffs similar to palace of the dead, like you could get haste or movement speed increase, or you could get things like INT down or white magic restricted. Or there could be gears on the floor, which were monsters and there would be an objective to either not be seen by or not to kill any gears.

Notorious monsters could also spawn on random floors which when you killed them dropped a chest with a ??? Item in it. You took this to the appraiser after the run and it would either be junk or a special piece of gear specific to that NM.

Once you competed the objective you had to get back to the runic portal and pick either to leave the area to record your progress and leave, or go up a floor, to go to the next floor (if you did not leave by completing an objective and using the runic portal all progress from that run was lost, so it was dangerous to wipe or time out).

Every 10 floors was a boss, there were 3 possible bosses for the first 50 floors of fafnir (dragon), adamantoise (turtle) or behemoth (...a behemoth). For floors 51-100 every 10 floors was either khimera, hydra or Cerberus. These bosses were tough (when the content was relevant) not savage levels of tough but to the point where it was likely you'd wipe if you weren't trying. These boss monsters dropped base mythic weapons to be upgraded (kind of like the first stage of an anima weapon in ffxiv) And armour.

Once you completed the original Nyzul isle there was nyzul uncharted. Which was a higher level version of Nyzul isle. Your progress wasn't recorded, you would always start at floor 1 and had to climb as high as possible in the time limit. The objectives were the same, but instead of going up 1 floor at a time there was a ??? Button that would jump a random number of floors, so you could go up 1 floor or you could end up going up 10. The armour that dropped was a higher level version of the armour from old Nyzul isle and it would be better the higher you climbed and you could also get materials for upgrading the mythic weapon from the random Notorious monsters that spawned.

There was also a limit to how many times you could enter, as you needed an entry item which you could only get 3 of and each time you used one it had a recharge time of 24 hours. Meaning you could only enter 3 times a day and would have to wait 3 days to do it 3 times again. Making an interesting balance between wanting to get as far as possible in one run and wanting to not time out and lose all progress on that entry.

There was also a currency called Nyzul tokens, you got these for completing a run, no matter what floor you exited on you would get tokens, but the higher you got the more tokens you got. These were used to enter Nyzul isle at higher recorded floors, floor 1 cost 0 tokens to enter from but the higher floor you started from the more tokens it would cost so if you had floor 10 recorded you would need to pay tokens to start at floor 10, if you didn't have enough you had to go back to floor 1 and farm tokens for next time. If you had more tokens than you needed to enter then you could also use them to buy temporary items when you entered Nyzul isle that would help you with that run like damage increasing potions etc.

Hmm, both the XP and weapon are pointless for me and the mount&minions don't feel like they're worth hours of grinding low level trash, seems like just another attempt to get people who barely can or will play the game with little thought to those that do.

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Originally Posted by Felis

How many floors had Nyzul?

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Nyzul Tower had 100 floors, you could save progress every 5 floors. Each 5 floor section had a 30 minute timer you had to beat, it was usually pretty tight and you had to go fast. You needed tokens to attempt it each time. You got one token a day and could hold 3-4 at a time i think. Floors consisted of finding specific monster to kill, lighting lamps in particular orders, killing all monsters of a certain type, and a couple other random rulesets i think. Every 20 floors there was a boss that had a chance of dropping endgame gear. At floor 100 i think you got something special and then reset back to floor 1. There were Mythic weapons that required you to beat nyzul multiple times.

It took weeks to climb to the top, not 3 hours. That's a bit of a rundown of what nyzul tower was like. Palace of the Dead is just a much easier version of what Nyzul tower was. Like.. way way easier.

Ugh...well, it turned out as I expected.

I'm not quite done yet, I still have the last 10 floors to go, but...ugh. It felt really tedious. Is it just me or are floors 11-30 the exact same, just with a different color palette? The pool of random rooms was already depleted after like two floors in each set and it all felt extremely same-y. It didn't really feel like a "place" either.
Chests felt egh - the only ones I looked forward to were the silver ones, the only ones with lasting relevance. For the most part, the extra abilities didn't feel very impactful, manticore aside.
Traps were...annoying? They really just felt like divine intervention by RNGesus, not like something one could avoid. At least the only dangerous ones were the ones that spawned adds and even that's not that bad if you have a proper comp.
The mobs mostly had the same mechanics as always and they weren't exactly new either. That was foreseeable - low budget at work.

To me...it was boring. But I couldn't get into Warframe either, so I'm probably just not a fan of randomly generated deja vus.

it wont take 3 hours each time, as your gear gets better you can pullmore and do the runs faster... noobs lmao

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

I think for me that's the really dissapointing part. Is that everything they ever add in FF14 will always be super easy and not require a whole lot of planning, thought, or strategy... Except for the tiny part of the game like ex trials and savage, that not very many people even do anymore

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That should tell you about the popularity of the content. I beleive what is happening is that players are asking for the wrong things. Casuals are wanting easier paths to relevant content, Hardcore keep asking for difficult content. Neither of which is what either player actually needs.

What players are truely looking for is content with depth. Endgamers want their dedication rewarded, while Casuals want to be relevant to endgame so they can play the content they're paying for. They're already paying past a pay wall, now there's several other gameplay walls to jump through, many of which are deliberate delays to make players pay more.

We should quit lieing to ourselves. Gearing is not relevant - it cycles too fast for it to be relevant except to be divisive to the player base (forcing those who can't dedicate the time or gather the people to constantly being behind, regardless of skill or any other factors.) There should be a more lasting reward system to portions of the game that require more dedication, regardless if that is combat, crafting, gathering or what-have you. Right now, best that happens there is glamour. The ilvl treadmill is literally just the carrot for those with BNS.

SE needs to add more depths to the game. Reward content by adding additional features or actions. If they're wanting to stick to glamour, they could replace animations or particle effects for certain attacks. Or, heck, add specalized attributes for once. (Defeating the Wyrmking gives Dragonkiller effect, etc.)

But as far as Deep Dungeon. We're 50 in, which is pretty much the tutorial mode for level 17 players who've yet to grasp level 60 job mechanics. That makes sense when you think about it from the ground up rather than the top down. But as we go further up, they should add more mechanics, possibly some temporary objectives too.

And SE have said that 3.45 will introduce 150 Floors and do not expect people to clear Floor 200 so soon. And yes, Hyrist, they will need to make the climb to the top (bottom?) interesting. Since people will most likely be Level 60 by Floor 51, attacking mobs would be pointless... unless there's an objective.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Since people will most likely be Level 60 by Floor 51, attacking mobs would be pointless... unless there's an objective.

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Oh, summer child, you underestimate SE lazyness.

Twenty people complaining on forum while in game there are hundreds of people enjoying it. There's a world out of these forums, the log out button is in the top right corner.

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Originally Posted by Vantol

Oh, summer child, you underestimate SE lazyness.

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I'm treating this as a tutorial for newbies to FFXIV. I was never hyped for this, but I am expecting SE to make the run from 51-200 interesting (objectives, penalties, hazards, etc). If they do not, then complaints will be justified.

I really like it, although I wish it wasn't so repetitive - ten levels of killing mobs gets boring fast. However, I do like that you can go with any level/class combination - I was in a group with three healers and no tank and another with three healers and a topaz carbuncle, so that was fun. :D

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Originally Posted by LalafellDown

If only they weren't lazy and actually created traps that you could dodge and avoid with skill. Like spikes coming from the floors. Maybe have some poison arrows shoot from the walls in a predictable pattern that the payers have to avoid.

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I would love this. None of the runs I've had have been challenging at all (except for one when someone pulled too much and we wiped), but this would make it a lot more challenging and fun.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

I'm treating this as a tutorial for newbies to FFXIV

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The game is 3 years old (6 if you count initial release), what newbies? When SE is thinking to start finally to cater to long-term players and release content for them? I'm not even mad at SE anymore, their stupidity starts to amaze me.

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Originally Posted by Vantol

The game is 3 years old (6 if you count initial release), what newbies? When SE is thinking to start finally to cater to long-term players and release content for them? I'm not even mad at SE anymore, their stupidity starts to amaze me.

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I'm really interested in seeing SEs stats for the player turnover rate, with how pretty much everything they do seems to be focused on "new or returning" players the amount of people who actually stay subbed for an extended amount of time must be really low.

I never got to do nyzul isle in 11...im loving it here so far

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Originally Posted by Vantol

The game is 3 years old (6 if you count initial release), what newbies? When SE is thinking to start finally to cater to long-term players and release content for them? I'm not even mad at SE anymore, their stupidity starts to amaze me.

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This is catering to long term players... who invite their newbie friends to join the game.

Besides, what many long term players would want to see is stuff like more end game raids, which would turn this game into something like WoW in the long run. One of the good points about SE is that they release content aimed at more then just endgame raiders.

I think it's very challenging and dangerous when there's just 2 people. Those "same mechanics" with 4, people can be a real issue to 2. I'm not sure what was expected of the mobs. It's not like each one would have S rank mechanics or dungeon boss mechanics.

Go in with 2 DPS. The drakes' reflect can just mean death. Pull the wrong thing(Wivre -_-)? Death. Get a bomb while fighting things? Death.

I appreciate all the things put in DD. The mimic rooms.. ugh. The super strong hooded guys that randomly appear. The items. Infested monster rooms. With 2 DPS that matters. I went BRD + MCH.

I was really happy I had the power ups we had. I had a big smile anytime a Purity dropped. Finally completing lv30 felt good.

It seems ok, I imagine the higher levels are more fun.

But the strength requirement for proceeding makes it a little dull at the low levels. Had to do floors 1-10 three or four times just to get weapon up to the necessary strength to proceed. And levels 1-10 are super boring because you have no skills and have to reset every time.

So... withholding overall judgement for now.

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Originally Posted by seida

It seems ok, I imagine the higher levels are more fun.

But the strength requirement for proceeding makes it a little dull at the low levels. Had to do floors 1-10 three or four times just to get weapon up to the necessary strength to proceed. And levels 1-10 are super boring because you have no skills and have to reset every time.

So... withholding overall judgement for now.

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Sorta reminds me of the 1st floor in salvage where no one can use skills and everyone is nakkid.

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

This is catering to long term players... who invite their newbie friends to join the game.

Besides, what many long term players would want to see is stuff like more end game raids, which would turn this game into something like WoW in the long run. One of the good points about SE is that they release content aimed at more then just endgame raiders.

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Plus, if SE actually make the run from 51 to 200 interesting and challenging, this can be the type of end-game that newbies (Level 17+) can enjoy on equal grounds (to an extent. Suddenly learning a new rotation could be jarring) with veterans, since the gear/weapon you have outside don't mean diddly within the Palace.

PotD is flawed, but it has potential.

If anything, this is a nice way to preview different jobs and their abilities

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Originally Posted by myahele

If anything, this is a nice way to preview different jobs and their abilities

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I agree. If your unsure if you will like a class, jump in with that class. Being a level 51 BRD I got to test all the skills and I admit, I am not as worried about WM as everyone was trying to make it out to be so I look forward to leveling the class further now.

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Originally Posted by myahele

If anything, this is a nice way to preview different jobs and their abilities

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Thought you couldn't go higher than your real class level.

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Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

Thought you couldn't go higher than your real class level.

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Nope, it will level you all the way to 60 and give you the skills regardless of if you did the class quests or not. A tad overwhelming I will admit to get 5 new skills within 30mins or so but a quick pause gave me time to set the skills how I like and read over em.

https://gyazo.com/44bf5c6c971b65924b0abbd103edc834.png

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Originally Posted by Nestama

PotD is flawed, but it has potential.

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You could say that about whole game, especially Diadem and Gold Saucer.

Eeehh, I started nodding off in the middle of floor 12 x.x;
And then we accidently wiped while we were in gloom zone with lessened HP, had a small mob on us and then accidently poked a landmine on all three of my group - all at the same time (was probably the most eventful thing...).
I really look forward to the challenge of upper numbers (above the max level Deep Dungeon is right now), though - I can't give an opinion until I see that