you guys went overboard with this new relic

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nihility

I'm all for stuff that requires effort but i started the quest and have been grinding fates in western coerthas since the servers came up and haven't seen a single luminous crystal yet.
It gets to a point where bad RNG just goes to disheartening and makes you want to not play anymore

---

good news.... u need 3 of those ! ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Terribad

MMOs are time sinks. However your concern with it being outdated within the next patch is a very valid one. If they could say something on that, that would be nice.

---

inb4 they're delaying the next patch by a month so your relic will be useful for a month instead of a couple of days.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kallera

Yeah, raid scene's half dead and my static needs the folk willing to run it. If relics were brought in at 3.0, it might have been less absurd, but this is stuff that is 5 months old, coupled with some of the most dull nonsense this game had to offer. The schedule of releases suggest a raise in ilvl for 3.2 and another raid tier being introduced.meaning an i210 weapon is going to be outdated in stats, if not feasibility.

---

Unless the weapon has higher-than-linear progression. The relic could start breaking away from the savage drops, and the differential is the reward for the grind. That's why I'm waiting a patch.

As far as the raiding scene being dead, who knows? Maybe raiders will come out of the woodwork trying to avoid this grind. Intentional...? Who knows. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WinterLuna

People want everything handed to them and to put as little effort in as possible. I am pleased this isn't handed to us on a silver plate.

---

While some people may want an easy relic, I highly doubt that's true for most people. I like having projects to work on in games, however, with relics it's a bit annoying as they become outdated so quickly. Why spend months grinding away on (most likely) boring quests when you can pick up an equal strength weapon from tomes? I don't mind grinds (loved me some XI, still do!), but the grind in this game is just not fun. It's all so repetitious.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silentwindfr

yes, but at that time, the weapon earn was the best you can get for age... that not the case there and will not be the case before 2-4 month before the next expansion.

---

Yet it is still the case that even those relics after all of that time and effort were eventually overshadowed by other weapons, standard ones even, and went on to require upgrades to become the most powerful again.

Just as we have to grind to level weapons also require a grind to "level" or create, that is how it has always been. I cannot see an alternative unless they intend to make it take a month or more to complete each of the story questlines required for a relic, and can anyone say with full honesty that complaints would go away then? I cannot see that happening because there would still be those who want it "right now" and people who are dissatisfied are /always/ the loudest

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KaitlanKela

Personally, I'm of the opinion that the relic was cooked up last minute to give everyone complaining about the lack of things to do in 3.1 things to do. It is my hope that they will get more attention to detail in future patches. That would be my request to SE anyway, not that the grind is terrible or that it be nerfed. For all we know, it could end up being a weapon ten or twenty ilvls higher than savage drops by the end of 3.xx. Then the risk/reward ratio would be fine, right? And a nerf to the early steps would break the gear economy. IMHO, it's simply too soon to tell. I'm personally going to wait a patch to get more info on the expected progression.

---

Not really, this isn't half minute cooked, these relics were already being announced pre-heavensward release in live letters and conferences.

So no, this wasn't a last minute thing, it does however look like a last minute thing given at how abysmal the content of the relic is, I'm glad you have noticed this and came to the conclusion that it's a last minute thing, given at how poorly it looks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Evtrai

Not that I would want to anyways since these grind tasks are massively boring.

---

the individual tasks are basically everything in the game.

FATEs
Dungeons
Treasure Maps
Beastmen Tribe Quests
Trials - Alexander
Law/Poetics - Roulette

you don't have to grind it if you don't want to (i know i won't) but basically doing anything in the game outside of Savage will move you closer to finishing the quest.

if you're going to say the tasks are boring doesn't that make the whole game boring to you?

You know, instead of nerfing this grind what I would like to see if horizontal gear emphasizing different stats and basically give us some options. That way we don't have to up the ilvl by five or ten every patch, just add new things that make different combinations and make content that requires those combinations to clear. That way the relic will be ten or fifteen ilvls ahead for a long time. And people keep doing the relic grind to have an edge over the breadth of end game gear.

Any feedback on this suggestion? This might be what both sides are looking for

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SendohJin

the individual tasks are basically everything in the game.

FATEs
Dungeons
Treasure Maps
Beastmen Tribe Quests
Trials - Alexander
Law/Poetics - Roulette

you don't have to grind it if you don't want to (i know i won't) but basically doing anything in the game outside of Savage will move you closer to finishing the quest.

if you're going to say the tasks are boring doesn't that make the whole game boring to you?

---

Putting it that way, yes, I do not enjoy any of the Heavensward content you just listed since it's basically the same as 2.0 on new maps, the whole 3.0 as a game, is boring to me, the only good things about it than I enjoyed being the story and Thordan EX, because even the raid was poorly designed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Terribad

MMOs are time sinks. However your concern with it being outdated within the next patch is a very valid one. If they could say something on that, that would be nice.

---

This is like a F2P style just grind until your eyes bleed thing though.
Pretty sure this is the kind of junk people avoid F2P games over

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Evtrai

Not really, this isn't half minute cooked, these relics were already being announced pre-heavensward release in live letters and conferences.

So no, this wasn't a last minute thing, it does however look like a last minute thing given at how abysmal the content of the relic is, I'm glad you have noticed this and came to the conclusion that it's a last minute thing, given at how poorly it looks.

---

Orly? Ahahahaha....
Welp, I stand corrected.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nihility

This is like a F2P style just grind until your eyes bleed thing though.

---

I wouldn't insult F2P style with how FFXIV does things. Atleast with F2P grinding it's actually worth it. The more grind, the better the item, stats, and everything else. Have you seen the stats? Boring.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Selli

inb4 they're delaying the next patch by a month so your relic will be useful for a month instead of a couple of days.

---

Lmao it's sad that this actually seems like something they would do.

it feels uninspired at least. just feels like a copy and paste of the old 2.0 relic

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Warlyx

good news.... u need 3 of those ! ;)

---

3?... you need 18

It is bad enough with the grind, but you need 16 HQ items too. Those are gonna be millions each for months. Sorry, but this is ridiculous. Yoshi P is incompetent and need to be fired at this point.

It's one thing to not get those relics for free because they're the same as raid weapons, but this kind of grind is ridiculous.

They also said previously that the grind wouldn't be as bad as the previous relics, but they went ahead and made it by far worst than all the previous steps combined at their release.

Worst part is they know they went too far, but they obviously don't give a ****. They will say they will fix it for the next step, but will go ahead and do even worst for the next part of the quest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KaitlanKela

Did you read the second half of my post? It's only less than zero IF it becomes obsolete in a few months which we totally don't know. If it does, then yes. You are absolutely right. I, for one, don't think it will. I probably won't get to work on this until I know for sure, though.

---

Yeah, because Everything in FFXIV 3.X isn't re skinned 2.X. Hell, they even added new atmas.

Quote:

---

Before 3.15: Wahhhhhhhhhhh. XIV is boring and no content. I have no reason to log in. Fix it pls SE.

After 3.15: Wahhhhhhhhhhh. Relics take too long, I dont want to log in everyday. Fix it pls SE.

Do it, or dont . Easy. Your RL wont change if you have a relic in XIV or not, so im not sure what the fuss is about.

---

Relics isn't content. The fuss is about SE being lazy and not implementing actual content in its game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Accolade

Before 3.15: Wahhhhhhhhhhh. XIV is boring and no content. I have no reason to log in. Fix it pls SE.

After 3.15: Wahhhhhhhhhhh. Relics take too long, I dont want to log in everyday. Fix it pls SE.

Do it, or dont . Easy. Your RL wont change if you have a relic in XIV or not, so im not sure what the fuss is about.

---

It's not about not having something to do logging in everyday. I have something to do (potentially) everyday with roulettes, etc.

It's about not adding any new content. It's about running old content (Alex Normal, 640 times) for a weapon. Not even a new trial or anything or for the quest. It's just as lazy and uninspired as the previous relic treadmill post atma phase.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GigaGaia

It is bad enough with the grind, but you need 16 HQ items too. Those are gonna be millions each for months.

---

Yea I kinda agree here. The rest of the stuff isn't so bad but I don't think there should be money changing hands for the relic. Like high end crafters don't already have millions more gil than non-crafters. One of the main reasons I never completed the old quest, I wasn't going to spend millions on crafted items, so I grinded and got most crafts to 3* stats, by that time the expansion was closing in and I didn't even bother to finish lol

The demand for the relic crafted pieces is high, supply will follow fairly quickly just like with the zodiac. Give it a few days and it will be affordable. The first ones to the jump are just trying to get crazy profits but that will end fairly quickly. It won't be "millions for months" at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KaitlanKela

You know, instead of nerfing this grind what I would like to see if horizontal gear emphasizing different stats and basically give us some options. That way we don't have to up the ilvl by five or ten every patch, just add new things that make different combinations and make content that requires those combinations to clear. That way the relic will be ten or fifteen ilvls ahead for a long time. And people keep doing the relic grind to have an edge over the breadth of end game gear.

Any feedback on this suggestion? This might be what both sides are looking for

---

I would LOVE some horizontal progression, but they would have to rework the entire game to make it work. I just don't see that happening. :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aryalandi

Yet it is still the case that even those relics after all of that time and effort were eventually overshadowed by other weapons, standard ones even, and went on to require upgrades to become the most powerful again.

---

The FFXI relics were introduced with Dynamis, I don't remember the year, but around Chains expansion it was out, that's in 2004. In 2006 with ToAU we got an alternative with the Mythic weapons. It wasn't untill the level cap increase in 2010'ish that we saw weapons better than relic/mythic, and then you could still upgrade relic/mythic to be the best. The grind was extreme back then, but for the best weapon for years to come. Whether it's good or bad game design can be discussed.
FFXI relics and FFXIV relics can't be compared in any way.

This questline feels very rushed for something that supposedly took extra development time...
But hell, I could excuse it if the reward at the end had some redeeming factor for me but it doesn't! The stats on the Machinist's gun aren't that great and have you seen what it looks like?

It's awful.
Absolutely awful.
Like a spray painted nerf gun.

The only positive I'm gonna get out of this is making bank off the HQ turn in items, but I was too lazy to deal with 3.0 crafting tome grinding so that's probably a moot point as well ain't it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stanelis

Yeah, because Everything in FFXIV 3.X isn't re skinned 2.X. Hell, they even added new atmas.

---

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Atma step is for those that did not do Zeta? So, honestly, I was kinda expecting that and it seems fair. It's paying homage to those who did it. I would actually be sad for them if Atma's (or something comparable) weren't in the new relic. And this from me that started playing post HW, so I totally didn't do it and I will totally have to (if I want it)

After reading all of the comments, some salty, all thoughtful, I've come to the conclusion that the grind shouldn't be nerfed, but the weapons themselves need a re-spec'ing and they need to be kept relevant for a long time. The quests to progress them (once you have them) should be kept short, interesting and fun. If we could keep the relics an ilvl tier ahead of concurrent gear, I think that would be ideal. So, SE, get on that. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Accolade

After 3.15: Wahhhhhhhhhhh. Relics take too long, I dont want to log in everyday. Fix it pls SE.

---

It's not that it takes too long, it's that it's not worth the reward. Plus it being outdated as soon as you're done completing it.

They aren't going to make the relics above new content ilvl. It just isn't going to happen. Relics will be raid weapon level at the end of each patch cycle otherwise they are just further de-incentivizing raiding which is already gasping for life anyhow. But im fine with the way it is.

Well sadly. This grind is going to be useless since Yoshi Ps gaming mentality is that all these WoW players who are mega casuals are entitled to everything you have just because they pay for a subscription so they deserve everything you have invested tons of time into for half the effort. No wonder they are loosing players. These handouts are becoming a joke with every update.
Somewhere along the way players need to be rewarded stop punishing people for learning things or investing time into this game. Just look at what happened with Alex and the first relic. Why would you bother doing this when its useless in 3 months? It will most likely be nerfed and finally at the end given out for free because a "new" relic is beeing introduced instead of letting your current one grow with you and become something personal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KaitlanKela

After reading all of the comments, some salty, all thoughtful, I've come to the conclusion that the grind shouldn't be nerfed, but the weapons themselves need a re-spec'ing and they need to be kept relevant for a long time. The quests to progress them (once you have them) should be kept short, interesting and fun. If we could keep the relics an ilvl tier ahead of concurrent gear, I think that would be ideal. So, SE, get on that. ;)

---

(They proceed to NOT get on that)
(You will excuse them regardless)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skivvy

I would LOVE some horizontal progression...(

---

Is there a reason why the horizantal gear couldn't be...crafted? Or maybe from doing the new dungeons released each patch. And the new gear, while being the same ilvl, gives (for example) tanks vit and dps ss and healers crit in exchange for other stats, and in the meantime the Ex primal for the patch has evil tank busters that require the vit tank + heal crit to survive, with a stacking debuff or something that requires the ss on the dps? I think that would work? Is there a problem you forsee that I'm missing? (honestly)

That was the relics can continue to be +10 ilvl, making the Ex primal a little less butt-clenching, for those who are willing to grind. This should also be good for raid composition, I think. Some people would have the highest tier dungeon gear, others the relics, each bringing a unique advantage to the encounter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Terribad

It's not that it takes too long, it's that it's not worth the reward. Plus it being outdated as soon as you're done completing it.

---

Then don't do it? At some point it will be customizable to min/max and bis so the investment will pay off. As someone who did it last time it was worth the effort to me and it definitely showed in the dps output i was able to achieve at the time. It was also better than the T13 weapon and had a larger stat budget.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kallera

(They proceed to NOT get on that)
(You will excuse them regardless)

---

Um, I'm at least making suggestions (several, in fact) and having a conversation. You are...well, I'm not exactly sure what this was supposed to be but I don't think it was constructive. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dante_V

Snip

---

Going to need you people to make up your mind. First you guys say people can't complain about not having anything to do if they don't complete ALL content. Now people are saying "don't do the content" um what?
How about instead of expecting people to not play a game they pay for. They can stop killing content as soon as it comes out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KaitlanKela

Is there a reason why the horizantal gear couldn't be...crafted? Or maybe from doing the new dungeons released each patch. And the new gear, while being the same ilvl, gives (for example) tanks vit and dps ss and healers crit in exchange for other stats, and in the meantime the Ex primal for the patch has evil tank busters that require the vit tank + heal crit to survive, with astacking debuff or something that requires the ss on the dps? I think that would work? Is there a problem you forsee that I'm missing? (honestly)

That was the relics can continue to be +10 ilvl, making the Ex primal a little less butt-clenching, for those who are willing to grind. This should also be good for raid composition, I think. Some people would have the highest tier dungeon gear, others the relics, each bringing a unique advantage to the encounter.

---

Some added horizontal progression would be nice, but they would need to rework the stats and/or add new stats.

Currently, secondary stats are very insignificant compared to the main stat. CRIT is particularly unpredictable, and if there was a heal check that 'required' a crit, that would suck for the 75% of the time that you don't crit.

Roughly stat weights are ~11.0 Weapon Damage, 1.0 Main stat, 0.1 (+/- 0.05) secondary stats. So if you had the relic be 10 ilvls higher, it would likely do 5ish weapon damage more (equivalent of 55 main stat) + have a higher main stat. In order for secondary stats to make up for that (assuming you want non relic weapons to not be obsolete) they would need to be roughly over 6000. [forgive me if my math is off, I couldn't sleep last night. So tired]

Personally, I'd like to see some more unique and fun stats come.

Well, to be fair, it is a Massive-Multiplayer game. Some people have said they like the grind, others that they don't but it's understandable. I'm of the latter opinion (with the caveat that the weapon itself is a little...odd considering the investment, if anything they need to rework the reward, not the risk). Some people think it's terrible content and they don't want to do it. With this many people, you can't please everyone. There is lots of content. You'd literally have to find nothing fun to not enjoy the game at all. There are a lot of things SE could do better. A LOT. But that doesn't mean that the game is unplayable to a majority of subscribers.

It would help if SE would take suggestions to heart more.

Quote:

---

Well, to be fair, it is a Massive-Multiplayer game. Some people have said they like the grind, others that they don't but it's understandable.

---

WoW made MMORPG popular by removing most of the hardcore grinds found in older games.

You say that a lot of player enjoy FFXIV, but for some reasons, I don't expect that popularity to last if SE keeps going with what they do since the beginning of heavensward.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KaitlanKela

Um, I'm at least making suggestions (several, in fact) and having a conversation. You are...well, I'm not exactly sure what this was supposed to be but I don't think it was constructive. :)

---

There is having faith in the dev team, and then there is "drinking the kool-aid".

I don't see the work involved in the relic being the solution to the problems with content so far. And now people are being asked, to run it all over again.

You want suggestions? Atma is not liked, and the amount of worked being asked is extreme. Much is made about players wasting time with each other, whether it be through rotations, inability to learn, or a general sense of progress.

This is an huge investment of time, resources, and patience.

I want to know that this new hell is worth what is at the end. Since the 2.0 relic, imo, regularly wasn't, and by intentional design from the devs, wasn't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaurie

Some added horizontal progression would be nice, but they would need to rework the stats and/or add new stats.

---

Kaurie!!! <3 <3

Wow, thank you for the math. That was very helpful.

We could see new stats come, or we could change the multipliers on the stats there are. Or, hell, they would throw +6000 crit on my codex and synch it to normal values for older content. It's just a number. All options good. Anything to keep the relic relevant given the investment. Heck, if they subsequent content for progression the weapon after you get it was cool enough, that would be reward enough, even if the weapon was the same as raiding. Put some new primals behind it, or some elaborate dungeons, or really epic side-story. Something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kallera

I want to know that this new hell is worth what is at the end. Since the 2.0 relic, imo, regularly wasn't, and by intentional design wasn't.

---

Actually, I'm beginning to think we agree. Rework the reward and keep it relevant for longer. That's the design that needs to be changed.

You're convinced it won't, and I still have faith that it might. I don't think I'm 'drinking the kool-aid' as you put it, mainly because I'm going to wait a patch before I start on this to see if there IS any change. I'm not plowing blindly ahead here.

And, that's it for me. I've hit my post limit today. ;) Good discussion

Kekela <3 :)

I'd say that I am most in favour of them adding new and interesting stats, and keeping the rest as is. They could increase secondary stat modifiers a bit, but ultimately I'd rather have something more interesting
For example, maybe they could add to (for Summoner weapons):

1. Thordan EX Weapon: Receives 1 extra Aetherflow stack when using Aetherflow
2. Gordian Savage Weapon: Reduces cooldowns of abilities by 15%
3. Relic Weapon: Increases duration of Dreadwyrm Trance by 9 seconds

Or whatever, something that changes how you do your rotation. Yes, I imagine one of the above will provide the most damage output. Guess what, out of the current weapons, 1 already does provide the most damage output as is the most favoured. This would at least make things a bit more interesting.

Other ways they can add interesting stats:

1. Thordan EX Weapon: Has a 10% Chance to Summon a Thordan Egi for 10 seconds on the use of Fester
2. Gordian Savage Weapon: Has a 30% chance to summon all 3 Egi's when entering Dreadwyrm Trance (or Maybe just Garuda/Ifrit, as Titan may cause enmity issues) for duration of Dreadwyrm Trance.
3. Relic Weapon: Rouse's damage modifier is doubled and adds a spell speed buff to the pet as well


EDIT: I forgot to come up with ideas for the Eso weapon as well (which is funny, because that is what I am using right now), but you get the idea.

Does, er, everyone just sort of forget that the point of the game is to enjoy yourself in the game? I can understand the promise of rewards is a great motivating factor, but if this is such a grind to you, then...? Like... the playing portion of the game is using your skills, being tactical, having fun or absurd moments in large groups while everyone tries to coordinate with their various abilities and jobs. I can get it, really, getting burned out from quickly aging content and wanting more stuff, new stuff, shinier stuff, but...?

I'm so confused.

If you don't enjoy actually playing the game and the only reason you'd keep playing is for something new to be presented to you? It's silly. I'm coming over from WoW, myself (though for distaste of its lore more than game-play reasons) and I find this entire argument so odd. The game is so cool, the abilities and jobs and stuff are so cool, it's so fun to heal and to dps and to tank and to do what you want and be what you want and? not everything has to be focused on how quickly you can max out your stuff and sit in a town doing nothing because your Glamour is exactly how you want it and for some reason you don't like pressing your really neat looking and fun to use skills anymore?

:C Yes, SE should be better about making more engaging content, but the stuff they're asking for the grind is stuff you would or should likely be doing anyways because you enjoy the game and you want to because it's fun for you, not just because of what you're getting from it. It's still a video game, in the end, and if you're not having fun with the actual playing part of the game I'm not sure what solace to give you.

Sorry I wrote a book.. do u dare read?

Something I wanted to go a little more broad with, but comes in response to this comment:

Quote:

---

There's just no innovation. It's just a cash grab and hook at this point as they're afraid to do anything new

---

This grind isn't arbitrary. It's a strategy of theirs that they use to compensate for the dystopian phases that their vertical progression model leaves in it's wake.

I think they waited to release HW's Relic because they wanted to monitor post-3.0 player activity, and then use the relic quest-line to force repopulation of older content on the progression ladder: they want the player community to repopulate older or non-lucrative content. Alex N being a big example. They want that DF Queue active for new 60s to get step-stone gear towards ESO despite it's abhorrent token system and the lack of appeal it's gear has for many (most) people who have leap-frogged over it (or plan to).

The grind is their way of knocking the community down the vertical progression ladder back into fate-grinding, dungeon-running, Beast Tribe Questing, and ALEX N farming: ensuring an active community presence for newer players. I've recently lvled two alts to 55ish due to endgame boredom.. Duty Finder does the job, but still there is a tangible awareness of an empty open-world when doing content after 2.0-2.1 through 3.05. FFXIV feels dystopian at many phases throughout these and some other areas (I thought, at least. My 2nd ALT didn't get a single FC invite; unloved ;_; ).

IMO these sort of grinds are fine IF they season the vertical progression with a little sand-box, player-driven world building. Nothing detrimental to their vertical model, but something that gives an extra incentive for end-game (or I'd argue more accurately dubbed 'post-game') players to go back and do former content.

A Beast Tribe example, if interested:

If beast tribes had regional influence - Where more active Beast Tribes (active meaning more players are completing that Tribes Quests than others) gain influence that expands their Tribal Influence to surrounding zones - possibly opening up Tribe-Specific Vendors at certain regional border outpost like South Shroud's Camp Tranquil <-> East Thanalan's Camp Drybone.

So if an FC rigorously grind Amalj'aa, that tribe's influence could push into South Shroud.. An Amalj'aa vendor replaces the Ixal/Slyph vendor at Camp Tranquil and that rare Amalj'aa vendor sells rare Tribe furnishings, mount, or glamours (but these rare items also require the appropriate Tribe Ranking to purchase)..

But, alongside that aspect also add bonus rewards to Beast Tribe Quests for Tribes if/when they are being pushed out of their default territory. The bonus could be an extra 10%-20% reputation reward, sizeable gil bonus, double venture rewards, etc. (so in this example, if Amalj'aa took South Shroud from the default Ixal/Slyph, doing quest for Ixal or Slyph would provide bonus Rep, Gil, etc until either one of those Tribes reclaim South Shroud from the Amalj'aa. Further, if players keep pushing with Slyph/Ixal they could take Camp Drybone from Amalj'aa: opening up a rare Ixal/Slyph vendor at that Outpost until Amal'jaa reclaims it).

Maybe even a similar open-world mechanic for Grand Companies, making the GC-alliance of your Free Company actually relevant for example. I guess what I'm trying to say it's not a problem of new content VS recycled content. It's the model that encompasses all content. All content, new or old, are just more rungs on the vertical ladder.

And the relic quest is a very transparent aspect of vertical progression SE uses to repopulate previous phases. It's necessary, I just wish they were less transparent about it or would add open-world mechanics like the above that provide an extra incentive to step back down the ladder.

..Sorry I wrote a book.. But that's how I feel on this Questline and more-so FFXIV in general at present, had to get it off my chest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stanelis

WoW made MMORPG popular by removing most of the hardcore grinds found in older games.

You say that a lot of player enjoy FFXIV, but for some reasons, I don't expect that popularity to last if SE keeps going with what they do since the beginning of heavensward.

---

WoW lost millions for making it too casual. Many of them ended up here.