being new and @ level 50 is killing my interest

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Originally Posted by Ksenia

In my case, they can leave the entire story line intact. I just want to be able to walk in to the damn zones, to gather at the new nodes. I have plenty of classes I can move the story forward on but the bulk of my game is spent on DoH and DoL. I am being forced to power through the MSQ to play those aspects. I don't want to but short of buying all mats on the market, that's how I am being forced to do it.

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You need flying to access the new nodes. It will be impossible for you to gather highest level items without having a battle class to 60. FYI.

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Originally Posted by Rin_Kuroi

Because that is the purchase site not the informational site. Its there so you can purchase the game. Its has just enough information to verify that you are purchasing the product you want. Its not there to help you figure out which product you want to purchase.

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As I said, not everyone will research it and SE will be aware of that fact. So, letting players know in places they can purchase it would be the decent thing to do. That's all.

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Originally Posted by Underdog2204

It's just a way to extend subs. Which is kinda odd because players are giving up soon after 2.0 and being stuck in the 2.1 > 2.55 limbo where character progression is none existent. My bro and 2 friends have gone to play Tera because they got bored of doing boring content for over 2 weeks, don't blame them tbh.

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So they had a couple weeks in which their only character progression is updating their gear (and leveling if they have HW unlocked), along with advancing the storyline and unlocking dungeons/trials/raids. If that has them quitting because it's too boring, then does it really sound like they'd like endgame any better?

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Originally Posted by Sylve

In my opinion, Its better this way. The story is one straight arc from level 1 right up to level 60. For a truly new player who is just playing and enjoying the story, They will simply play through MSQs as they have done from 1 - 49, The only difference is that the MSQ fights get harder without increasing in level.

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Now that the story does flow through to its continuation, I wonder if SE will ever go back and redistribute a bit. There's that level gap from 46 to 49 with no MSQ and then a glut of them at 50. If some of the early level 50 quests were brought down to a slightly lower level to help fill that gap it might make for a smoother run.

This thread doesn't make any sense, like what do you want exactly? If you decide to buy HW, you get the new race, and experience past 50. The content like Ishgard is part of the story, you can't just suddenly go walking in there when you're constantly told they have their gates closed. The finale of ARR takes care of all of that and starts the next story, so being able to access those areas would make no sense at all and for most you wouldn't last long anyway since areas that have enemies at level 58 would just wipe you as they are hard as is even when you're the same level. I think the HW story is awesome and I'm way more into it than I was with ARR. 20 minutes for DPS queue is pretty normal. Besides on one is forcing you to do all the level 50 stuff, just the MSQ which all of us here did already. Like what exactly do you want to do in Ishgard or the new areas anyway, even if you could access them now? You can't do any of the dungeons as they are unlocked as part of the main story quests, same with certain aerythite points, the things you collect to let you fly. So even if the gates were open, there's nothing you can do there anyway for the most part. Suck it up and deal with it like everyone else here did. Like others mentioned, we had it worse anyway, no exp at 50 when doing all the MSQs, and then running the same dungeons over and over for tomes to get better gear, all of which is replaced as part of the main story with gear way better, all just for "Go kill 3 XYZ enemies".

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

2) The gating in this game is silly and a bad decision for an MMO company that should know better, but I think the poster above me beautifully explains the reasoning why. To say the least, SE is a company with plenty of MMO experience. They should've known better than to lock the new jobs to level 50 + story.

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I think they should have gated access to the new regions and the MSQ continuation behind the 2.x MSQ, but allowed players to pick up the new jobs ahead of time (perhaps unlocking at 30 since that's the level they begin). It would have still kept the most sizeable chunk of new content where it makes sense with the story but also allowed new people to feel they were getting more from the expansion than just Au Ra.

(It would, of course, require job trainers for the new jobs to be somewhere in the original ARR regions. I've heard that the storylines for those job quests are rather integrally tied to being in Ishgard, but that's because SE wrote them to be there. If they'd decided to place the job unlocks elsewhere, they'd have a different story tied to them.)

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Originally Posted by Sylve

The post quests are scattered with lore and background story for the characters/places you visit while being crammed full of additional pointless fluff who's now outdated purpose was to extend the time players spent logged in between patches or guide them to underused content like Qarn and Hero in a Halfshell.

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Fixed that for you.

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XIV is a story driven game, building up a story and creating a world that makes sense.

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This is true, and I love the game for it's story! It really is the one thing that makes it stand out. But over the years a considerable amount of filler has been injected into that story in order to meet short-sighted game goals that have absolutely nothing to do with the narrative. Requiring new players to go through that BS is killing the game's ability to retain new players, which is extremely vital to the success of an MMO.

1k characters is a rather restrictive number for any sort of real communication of ideas. -.-

Look at it this way. FFXIV is a better game than GW2 in pretty much every category. It has more content, it has a more cohesive and well written story, it has better thought out battle mechanics that only had to be thrown out and reimplemented once rather than repeatedly. Yet despite this GW2 has been much more successful than FF14, having sold more copies, retaining more players, and making more profit for NCSoft than FF14 can ever really hope to considering the double-development money pit that they wound up in. A major reason for this is because FF14 has never really been able to retain players, between the original subpar game and now these barriers to entry that are full of as much pointless time wasting fluff as they are good story content. The majority of new people come, they play until they get hung up on filler, and then they let their subscription lapse.

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Originally Posted by Akuryu

This strategy of requiring story completion to play new expansions cannot continue on past this one. If the next expansion (4.0) requires you to complete all of 2.x and all of 3.x, then they might as well slap a "new players need not apply" sticker on the box. That's too steep a mountain to climb just so a new player can enjoy "current" content.

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That is a problem, but not due to the amount of time it takes to go through the content.

The issue is that each expansion needs to be purchased and expansion purchases require the base game, not the whole string of previous expansions. There will be people buying the 4.0 expansion who never bought Heavensward so don't have access to its content. Makes it pretty hard to require completion of that content. Requiring completion of the base game is different, since everyone getting the expansion needs to have the base game.

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Originally Posted by Akuryu

What about 5 years from now, when we have several expansions? "FINALLY convinced my wife to play the game with me! I'm hoping to have her caught up by next February..."

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That part would be fantastic. Who wouldn't want a game that has a ton of content that can keep you productively advancing your character for such a long time before getting stuck at the end where all that's left is just grinding the same old thing over and over.

There's no problem with how it works, people complaining are just the ones starting late. I booked it through the quests and worked my ass off to finish all level 50 quests to be ready for HW, so not sure why other people think they should be given a free express pass or be able to access HW content without finishing other things from 2.0 first. I'd probably be annoyed as well if I was just starting, but that's just life, you can't have everything given to you. Like you all realize this is a story game right? How exactly do you plan on enjoying the HW story and content without finishing 2.0's first? It wouldn't even make sense! 2.0 ends in a cliffhanger basically "to be continued", so getting to do things in HW would be like watching the first and second Harry Potter movies, and then skipping to the last one because you're too impatient to watch the ones in between.

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Originally Posted by Underdog2204

feeling like you are constantly behind all the time and not getting any closer to the end is not the definition of "fun" last I checked. Even the 50 dungeons/primals arn't fun anymore since it's just full of vastly overgeared people.

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Huh? this is every mmo you don't start on day 1 lol any mmorpg you start after a year or 2 will be the same. Sure not locked by a story but you will be behind and everyone will be vastly overgeared why? because ppl have been there much longer then you lol {wow killed things when giving players a boost to 90} If your new lvl up your supposed to look at ppl with high lvl gear and say oooooooooo if i work hard ill look like that. Not play till 40 and say waaaaaaaa i quit

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Originally Posted by SakuraMidori

Huh? this is every mmo you don't start on day 1 lol any mmorpg you start after a year or 2 will be the same. Sure not locked by a story but you will be behind and everyone will be vastly overgeared why? because ppl have been there much longer then you lol {wow killed things when giving players a boost to 90} If your new lvl up your supposed to look at ppl with high lvl gear and say oooooooooo if i work hard ill look like that. Not play till 40 and say waaaaaaaa i quit

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This is exactly true. At the end of the day what is the point of this game? There's no real end point, it's all about bettering yourself, getting better gear, adding other classes, trying new things, etc. To be like oh you bought the expansion, here's your free pass to 60 as well as a bunch of level 150 gear, enjoy! Would make no sense, like why bother playing? It's the progression that makes the whole game fun. I couldn't wait to get to 50, seeing glamour, 8 person dungeons, etc ,so for me I always want something to be working towards.

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Originally Posted by 416to305

This is exactly true. At the end of the day what is the point of this game? There's no real end point, it's all about bettering yourself, getting better gear, adding other classes, trying new things, etc. To be like oh you bought the expansion, here's your free pass to 60 as well as a bunch of level 150 gear, enjoy! Would make no sense, like why bother playing? It's the progression that makes the whole game fun. I couldn't wait to get to 50, seeing glamour, 8 person dungeons, etc ,so for me I always want something to be working towards.

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Hit it right on the nose, progression and enjoying the leveling experience.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

That part would be fantastic. Who wouldn't want a game that has a ton of content that can keep you productively advancing your character for such a long time before getting stuck at the end where all that's left is just grinding the same old thing over and over.

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Uh, that's like saying that no one should ever play the latest game because gosh, there's all those old games for super cheap or even free that they can play! How awesome!

People don't play MMO's to run old content. Ever. This isn't a single player game. This is a genre where people like to progress in the latest content along with all the other players and face new challenges that the developers create.

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Originally Posted by Ortamus

If you went onto the PS Store and looked up Final Fantasy XIV one of the first things thrown in your face is the Heavensward bundle. Naturally, many people will look at this with no chance of knowing they had to complete all of 2.0 and buy it as it is the most recent addition of the game.

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But it clearly calls it a bundle and indicates that you're buying both the base game (FFXIV:ARR) and the Heavensward expansion. Or if you buy the Heavensward expansion by itself, it clearly states that the expansion requires you to also have the base game. Either way makes it clearly obvious that the ARR part comes first.

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Originally Posted by justinjarjar

Hit it right on the nose, progression and enjoying the leveling experience.

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And the best part is that no one has to do it more then once unless they want to.

Having said that I would like to see some of the boring fetch quests reworked.

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Originally Posted by 416to305

This is exactly true. At the end of the day what is the point of this game? There's no real end point, it's all about bettering yourself, getting better gear, adding other classes, trying new things, etc. To be like oh you bought the expansion, here's your free pass to 60 as well as a bunch of level 150 gear, enjoy! Would make no sense, like why bother playing? It's the progression that makes the whole game fun. I couldn't wait to get to 50, seeing glamour, 8 person dungeons, etc ,so for me I always want something to be working towards.

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If progression were all that made it fun no one would play MMOs because you can get that same experience playing any single player game out there. Also, progressing in 3 year old content is not the same as progressing in something just released in the patch notes that is blasted all over the website and forums.

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Originally Posted by DacienSanderon

Uh, that's like saying that no one should ever play the latest game because gosh, there's all those old games for super cheap or even free that they can play! How awesome!

People don't play MMO's to run old content. Ever. This isn't a single player game. This is a genre where people like to progress in the latest content along with all the other players and face new challenges that the developers create.

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I play to run old content. You're wrong and dont get to speak for me. Sorry.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

But it clearly calls it a bundle and indicates that you're buying both the base game (FFXIV:ARR) and the Heavensward expansion. Or if you buy the Heavensward expansion by itself, it clearly states that the expansion requires you to also have the base game. Either way makes it clearly obvious that the ARR part comes first.

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Yes, so any normal person in a normal MMO would think they'd be leveling through the ARR part of the game then enjoying the content the expansion has to offer. What the website should say is this:

WARNING: YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PARTICIPATE IN ANY EXPANSION CONTENT UNTIL YOU HAVE COMPLETED ALL OF THE ARR CONTENT, WHICH MAY TAKE SEVERAL MONTHS.

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Originally Posted by Rin_Kuroi

And the best part is that no one has to do it more then once unless they want to.

Having said that I would like to see some of the boring fetch quests reworked.

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I agree, but I want to see more Job balance and new content over old fetch quests being reworked. (then again I am done with the old ones at this point)

And DacienSanderon.... I like doing old content and trying it over geared... and soloing it.... am I not playing the game right owww noooo. (and several months lol maybe a month max). Either way you realize this is a Final Fantasy game right? Or are you in this for just the MMO part? At this point you just sound like an elitist who only wants to do the "hardest new thing" and no one doing anything else matters.

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Originally Posted by Rin_Kuroi

I play to run old content. You're wrong and dont get to speak for me. Sorry.

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I guess MMOs should never have expansions.

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Originally Posted by DacienSanderon

If progression were all that made it fun no one would play MMOs because you can get that same experience playing any single player game out there. Also, progressing in 3 year old content is not the same as progressing in something just released in the patch notes that is blasted all over the website and forums.

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3year old huhhhhhhhhhhhh? Anyway last time i looked you can find many ppl to do old stuff with and if you just joined why run into a lvl 50+ zone? you don't really belong there so?

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Originally Posted by justinjarjar

I agree, but I want to see more Job balance and new content over old fetch quests being reworked. (then again I am done with the old ones at this point)

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I'm okay with that. Maybe SE can look at it the next expansion or two.

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Originally Posted by DacienSanderon

I guess MMOs should never have expansions.

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Who said anything like that? I can enjoy new and old content. Obtuse much.

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Originally Posted by DacienSanderon

Yes, so any normal person in a normal MMO would think they'd be leveling through the ARR part of the game then enjoying the content the expansion has to offer. What the website should say is this:

WARNING: YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PARTICIPATE IN ANY EXPANSION CONTENT UNTIL YOU HAVE COMPLETED ALL OF THE ARR CONTENT, WHICH MAY TAKE SEVERAL MONTHS.

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Dacien, you have no idea of how much I appreciate your existence right now.

Edit: This kind of warning should also be made wherever the expansion is sold.

Yeah this games community is shit

I bought heavensward because I was stupid. I haven't even gotten a job unlock yet, I assumed that I'd get to try the new dark knight earlier. As I like drain tanks, however I didn't realize I won't even remotely get to play it till maybe next calendar year.

I enjoy the game, however it expects too much of a casual player. I don't want to raid and have no interest in it.

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Originally Posted by Ortamus

Dacien, you have no idea of how much I appreciate your existence right now.

Edit: This kind of warning should also be made wherever the expansion is sold.

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A warning like this is on the main informational page for ff14 hw. Sadly some people are foolish enough to rely on the info from seller's page instead of the developer's. Hopefully lesson learned.

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Originally Posted by Rin_Kuroi

A warning like this is on the main informational page for ff14 hw. Sadly some people are foolish enough to rely on the info from seller's page instead of the developer's. Hopefully lesson learned.

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We' already talked about this...you suffer from short term memory loss? People see a game from a series they enjoy, they'll buy it. Now, go open up your door, there's this place called the outdoors. You might like it.

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Originally Posted by IzzyData

FYI, this is the only MMO that is implemented this way. In no other game can you pay money for an expansion and not instantly access at least most of the content you payed for.

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The only other MMO I've played extensively works similarly. LOTRO's first expansion requires leveling through the base game first. Then each successive expansion starts at the endgame level of the previous one. (Though to allow for players getting some expansions and not others, there are between-expansion updates to the main game to provide alternate leveling paths.) But you can't start any of the expansions from the beginning of the game.

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Originally Posted by Zer0

I enjoy the game, however it expects too much of a casual player. I don't want to raid and have no interest in it.

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Sadly raids end of being a lot of the end game stuff so idk what your going to do at that point but just try to have fun ^^

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Originally Posted by Zer0

I bought heavensward because I was stupid. I haven't even gotten a job unlock yet, I assumed that I'd get to try the new dark knight earlier. As I like drain tanks, however I didn't realize I won't even remotely get to play it till maybe next calendar year.

I enjoy the game, however it expects too much of a casual player. I don't want to raid and have no interest in it.

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Exactly the same for me too. I was hoping to be able to get into Ishgard, take a look around and pick up the new jobs at least. I understood that most/all the new quests would be out of reach for me, but as long as I could just walk into the new place.

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Originally Posted by Rin_Kuroi

A warning like this is on the main informational page for ff14 hw. Sadly some people are foolish enough to rely on the info from seller's page instead of the developer's. Hopefully lesson learned.

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SE's main HW page actually states under the Early Access portion of the page (and the only spot btw that it is mentioned), "...have made sufficient progress in the main scenario." This is quite vague, and to me - as I'm sure to others as well - it meant, 'okay, I just need to beat that dragon infested dungeon in Coerthas and I'm in, right?" Should be, but no. I mean all the Ishgardians are cool with me after doing all those favors for them. Nope. Not happening. They are only going to roll out the red carpet after I have fully completed the MSQ up to 2.53 (incl. all high level raids required for that progress). So, it really should've said, "Warning: you need to have full completion of the main scenario to 2.53 to advance to Heavensward."

I started playing FFXI like 2 years after NA launch and I never felt in a threadmill trying to catch up to the veteran players back then. I eventually did. I guess it was the horizontal progression that allowed that. The pace was more calm. In FFXIV it's another story though... If I stopped playing for a few months I'd fall behind very fast. lol I mean look at Alex, within the first day there were the "Farm. Know the fight. Not a learning party" already, on party finder...

how i see this :

-) to much content : people complain coz they cant finish all of the stuff

-) not enough content : people complain coz theres nothing to do

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Originally Posted by Rin_Kuroi

Who said anything like that? I can enjoy new and old content. Obtuse much.

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But new players can't? You not seeing the double standard and thinking you somehow deserve more than a new player is part of why you don't comprehend what this thread is about.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

The only other MMO I've played extensively works similarly. LOTRO's first expansion requires leveling through the base game first. Then each successive expansion starts at the endgame level of the previous one. (Though to allow for players getting some expansions and not others, there are between-expansion updates to the main game to provide alternate leveling paths.) But you can't start any of the expansions from the beginning of the game.

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Having played LOTRO this isn't true. Each successive expansion does not start at the endgame. It starts at the end level. That means you level to the old cap and start leveling in the expansion content without having to do the old raids etc. Just like nearly (I only say that because there might be an exception) every MMO out there.

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Originally Posted by Rin_Kuroi

A warning like this is on the main informational page for ff14 hw. Sadly some people are foolish enough to rely on the info from seller's page instead of the developer's. Hopefully lesson learned.

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There is nothing like this on the main page. Heck, even when I click on the "buy now" I see nothing like it. I'm sure there is something vague buried somewhere in there but you're really grasping at straws if you think that's an adequate warning.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

The only other MMO I've played extensively works similarly. LOTRO's first expansion requires leveling through the base game first. Then each successive expansion starts at the endgame level of the previous one. (Though to allow for players getting some expansions and not others, there are between-expansion updates to the main game to provide alternate leveling paths.) But you can't start any of the expansions from the beginning of the game.

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Dawg I was gathering scholar nodes in Rohan even when I didn't have that expansion;and the closest things to a hard story gate(Moria/Mirkwood) let you pick up the quests to get in even if you didn't finish any of the ones before them. If there's another game out there that requires you to go through months worth of story content to even get to the new expansion area, it's something I can't imagine many people know about.

And keep in mind, this isn't just leveling up. It's going through the story quests that don't even give you xp before you can join all the people in ishgard, who could be your buddies who you wanna play with.

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Originally Posted by Tyla_Esmeraude

I started playing FFXI like 2 years after NA launch and I never felt in a threadmill trying to catch up to the veteran players back then. I eventually did. I guess it was the horizontal progression that allowed that. The pace was more calm. In FFXIV it's another story though... If I stopped playing for a few months I'd fall behind very fast. lol I mean look at Alex, within the first day there were the "Farm. Know the fight. Not a learning party" already, on party finder...

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There are so much gated content in XI, what are you talking about...? Sea, Aht Urgan, any of the basic 75 content outside of maybe Dynamis and HNMs, ZNMs, Salvage, Odin. You guys seriously remember FFXI in a totally different way than I do.

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Originally Posted by m3eansean

You need flying to access the new nodes. It will be impossible for you to gather highest level items without having a battle class to 60. FYI.

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In short, attune the zone. And when I am actually able to do that it will translate to a lot of running. Done with a level 59 most likely because zone discovery gave big chunks of Experience based on level. I deliberately avoided map discovery in 2.00 and took half the level from 49 to 50 Whm just walking in to areas.

I was at The Beasts Maw when I logged back in, the level 26. It was checked, just not turned in. I'd say I was holding it until I had a class that wasn't level capped I could turn it in on. That's no longer an issue. I'm handing out tea now and already 25% through Whm level 50. This was never about it being difficult. It would have been in the interest of SqEnix to not ram me through this. Had I done these quests on another class, it would have taken me substantially longer. I'll be in HeavenWard by the weekend. It just means I have to waste content they took years to implement. In the end, not my circus, not my monkeys I guess.