Let Players Speed Run Again

If spending an extra 5-10 minutes in a dungeon is so miserable, why do people even play the game?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brill_

If spending an extra 5-10 minutes in a dungeon is so miserable, why do people even play the game?

---

Because they are like children. All of them. "I want this. I want that. I don't like this. I don't like that." To put things in perspective, at least it's now WoW.

Remember the last pull in Sastasha HM? Maybe that's to help tanks prepare for large pulls in High Level Roulette. That being said, no one should ever impose their will on the tank. I'm sitting out a penalty because I wasn't taking pulls larger than what I was comfortable with.

Edit to add story: I was in Snowcloak. I was pulling one group at a time and we were going at a reasonable pace. But during the second group, one member pulled another group to me. In party chat, I thanked them for pulling more mobs. He told me I was going too slow. I told him I did not feel comfortable with large pulls. He replies back that it wasn't even that large of a pull. Maybe not, but the healer barely kept me alive with 3 mobs on the first pull. But it wasn't worth arguing with the guy, so I just walked out, waited out the penalty then rerolled roulette with my healer friend. And I won the mummy! (And the monkey in high level roulette)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brill_

If spending an extra 5-10 minutes in a dungeon is so miserable, why do people even play the game?

---

Because they're boring, and longer than previous dungeons. With Dungeons like Wanderer's Palace and Brayflox, I expected to be able to do something similar. If I wanted to pull all the mobs all the way to each boss room, I should be allowed to do it. Not held back.

Previous dungeons have been able to be beat in less than ten minutes. If you are skilled enough to do so, you should be able to. Not be held back by stupid mechanics in-game that slow you down for the sake of making content seem longer.

Let's face it. Speedrunners abused their privilege so it was taken away. If people weren't so demanding that everyone comply, there wouldn't have been complaints. How does it feel now to have a different playstyle forced on you? Doesn't feel too good does it? Karma's a bitch. Live with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brill_

If spending an extra 5-10 minutes in a dungeon is so miserable, why do people even play the game?

---

Maybe those people need something from the dungeon, or just want their daily bonuses, but don't particularly enjoy dungeoning itself?

It's not like dungeoning is the only reason to play ff14. Maybe those players want to get it over with so they can go back to crafting/gathering/chocobo raising/achievement hunting/log completion/raiding/gardening/etc...

PS: I'm not a speed runner. I just have the ability to realize people enjoy different parts of a game differently.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amelia_Pond_Behemoth

Let's face it. Speedrunners abused their privilege so it was taken away. If people weren't so demanding that everyone comply, there wouldn't have been complaints. How does it feel now to have a different playstyle forced on you? Doesn't feel too good does it? Karma's a bitch. Live with it.

---

Learn to read, I know the concept seems staggeringly hard for someone like you.

I never force people to speed run, I ask.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Learn to read, I know the concept seems staggeringly hard for someone like you.

I never force people to speed run, I ask.

---

You were very rare then, because the community FORCED others to Speed run back in flox run era. If you didn't speedrun flox in under 6 min you were kicked. If you weren't a PLD/BRD/BLM/WHM combo, you were kicked. If you were one of those jobs and didn't preform perfectly, you were kicked. if you DF'd and weren't one of those jobs, kicked. ilevel not high enough on those jobs? kicked.

I'm thankful it's not that anymore.

After reviewing both this thread and playing through several different dungeons, I cam to the conclusion that speed runs - while technically not impossible even with current "gates" in place - are simply not AS possible because content isn't as easy anymore. It's not hard, no, but we became able to speed run because it was just too easy at that point. I ran Sastasha HM a few days ago on my fresh 50, i100 NIN (made possible thanks to having geared my MNK before), and had a really cool and capable party, better geared than myself. . . We shredded through that place faster than I've ever seen so far - yes, even the Kraken - and without utilizing any of the "old" speed run tactics. They were damn good.

Things can be done quickly now still, but it's more skill/performance based than threat (or lack of), length, or level difference.


(Quick Note: SE, for the rare occasion that an entire party performs exceptionally well, how about a "Commend All" option when not in a premade?)

I am fine with speedruns, although I'll never force them on a party, and I really enjoy them most of the time.
Problem that I see here is that some people seem to think that a SR means everything is just like Bray HM, a trash gauntlet to boss, rinse and repeat. To me a SR is just simply completing a dungeon in the fastest and most efficient manner you can, if there are small stop-gaps such as locked doors or pitfalls, those are just obstacles and challenges that you take into consideration when devising the strategy to SR the dungeon, it does not stop you from pushing yourself to try to get through as fast as you can.

While I understand the concern of current dungeon settings these days, I would have to agree with OP on this though. Dungeons has becoming more boring for me to do. If I'm not so desperate for specific loot or allagan pieces, I would rarely do them and do something else to fulfill my needs, like crafting or open-world activities. I didn't even do high level duty roulette for a very long time.

In fact, I kinda miss the way 1.0 dungeons designed back then. While they would be a bit unforgiving, but there's something in there that always makes me intrigue to return, once I can join a party or assemble one to tackle it. Sadly, this is not the case with ARR version of dungeon mechanics.

And for ppl who thinks DD jobs aren't made for SR, you are quite wrong. Unlike 1.0, every jobs has been equipped with AOE skills. I have partied with jobs like MNK or DRG that can perform SR really well. Heck, even I can do that as NIN since that job have at least 2 AOE abilities that's very useful for large mob nuking.

Even with all that, I still tolerate ppl who doesn't like SR and doing the normal way. Usually when I tanked and getting my 1st large pull, I judge if my current party could handle it. If not, then I proceed with normal run.

But if I'm going with premade party that expect to do SR, I do would expect a smooth runs without unnecessary delays. In fact, both tanks and healers are tested if they could effectively handle larger crowds. Believe it or not, Coil of Bahamut content are actually a speed run content where party will be constantly dealt with things like DPS check. And for those ppl who has beaten the latest coil, you can bet your ass that they can do SR very easily and probably find normal dungeons a bit too mundane.

But then again... if normal dungeons have dps check mechanic, alot would be crying for how hard it is. Just look at how Amdapoor Keep on it's current state compared with it's original design back when ARR starts. It is really... really sad. That is one dungeon that has the most nerfed mechanics I ever seen. Now Demon Wall looks really pathetic.

In a way, SR could actually help players utilize their job more efficiently than just spamming 1-2-3. In fact, I've been doing alot of 1-2-3 in dungeons for some time even while I'm nodding off, since I don't felt so thrilling to do effective rotations to finish them more quicker.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BobbinT

In a way, SR could actually help players utilize their job more efficiently than just spamming 1-2-3. In fact, I've been doing alot of 1-2-3 in dungeons for some time even while I'm nodding off, since I don't felt so thrilling to do effective rotations to finish them more quicker.

---

exactly! the BLM can learn the thrill of spamming FLARE without hate management. Bards spam Rain of death until TP drains dry without hate management! Whate Mages Holy Spaming instead of healing the party! Tanks overpulling and getting killed!

All GREAT things speed running has taught players !

I really don't understand half the posts in this thread.

Like, I get wanting to enjoy a dungeon... the first time. And if you had some variety, like 10+ dungeons, to queue for then I'd totally be behind taking things slow and steady. There are some dungeons where trash doesn't just stand there and smack you with autoattacks and a random AOE cleave until you kill it (Pharos Sirius, Lost City), but that's pretty much all it does in the other dungeons. The head + hands in Qarn HM really are more of the same, in fact the AOE that holds the person doesn't even hit hard so it's a completely useless trash mechanic - if there were any sense of danger there it'd be alright, but there isn't so it's just more trash. The snakes can petrify you which is, again, another minor inconvenience if you happen to not LoS it/Silence it/etc. Basically, I don't understand the fun of going one trash pack at a time. Weeeeee it's... the same mob I've killed 20 times before! I wonder if he'll do exactly what he did those other 20 times?! Oh, he did! Whooooah!

I just don't get it. Reading some of these posts genuinely made my head hurt. Do people expect new things to come from 4 man dungeons we've done ad nauseam? Why would you not want to go faster? For what reason? Do you not have other things going on in your life that you'd like to do? Do you set aside 2 hours for your expert roulette that day? Why not get it done as fast as possible and then move on with your life? I really am trying my hardest to wrap my head around why anyone would want to take their time in a 4 man dungeon they've done 10 times before. I would love for someone to explain it, because it is genuinely boggling my mind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

It can be done. The problem with Qarn is the features that force you to stop. Such as the doors that won't open until you kill the two mummies. The fall before the boss that makes you stop for a seconds. It's like SE is going out of it's way to do even the tiniest thing to slow down the dungeons to a painful crawl.

Like the warden for instance. How he holds you. Yeah it's fast to kill the hands, but if you pull all the mites and snakes into that room and one of the hands grabs the healer or DDs. That potent poison and all the adds damage is going to drop a tank quick. Just another form of way too slow you down.

SE used to reward speed runs.

You're all capable (hopefully) to be able to use the duty finder to form a party that has the subject "Slow and Easy". To take your time in a dungeon. I, however can't speed run, which is unfair. Yes you can do Qarn fast, but what if I do a roulette with my FC and we don't get Qarn. Now we have to do Snowcloak or Satasha which have nearly the same issues. Force stops.

---

I'm fairly sure that 'reward' was due to the shit quality of the instancing servers. They wanted people to get the hell out as fast as possible so shit wasn't breaking all the time so they encouraged people run as quickly as humanly possible. It wasn't designed that way as a 'reward' but rather just as a precaution so the servers didn't crap out several times a day. Personally I'm tired of dungeons feeling like I'm playing an damn on the rails shooter. Like I'm in Time Crisis or some shit but I'm punching dudes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nel_Celestine

hate management

---

I don't understand how tanks would have trouble keeping hate, or how holding hate in a dungeon is any more or less difficult outside of dungeons.

You have to be woefully under ilvl compared to DPS or just plain bad to struggle with enmity. Tanks have generous enmity generation skills.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Almalexia

I don't understand how tanks would have trouble keeping hate, or how holding hate in a dungeon is any more or less difficult outside of dungeons.

You have to be woefully under ilvl compared to DPS or just plain bad to struggle with enmity. Tanks have generous enmity generation skills.

---

because pulling hate back off mobs that get flared over and over and over again when you are trying to hold 10-15 of them. Sure, WAR maybe, but PLD? Flash can only do so much.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Why would you not want to go faster? For what reason? Do you not have other things going on in your life that you'd like to do?

---

going fast is one thing. Speed running is another. Speed running equates to booting anything that isn't optimal set up, ignoring EVERYTHING and just GOGOGO SPAMSPAMSPAM! If anything, speed running burnt me out on the game more than just running at a normal pace. 3~4 extra minutes is NOT going to make or break you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nel_Celestine

because pulling hate back off mobs that get flared over and over and over again when you are trying to hold 10-15 of them. Sure, WAR maybe, but PLD? Flash can only do so much.

---

They buffed flash. Holding aoe threat on either job is as easy as mashing a single button.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nel_Celestine

because pulling hate back off mobs that get flared over and over and over again when you are trying to hold 10-15 of them. Sure, WAR maybe, but PLD? Flash can only do so much.

---

I tanked dungeons as PLD way alot more than WAR for SR. If you only think Flash is the only AOE enmity generate, then you are dead wrong and playing it wrong.

And if tank dead so fast, either they forgot or haven't mastered using their buffs yet. PLD does have 4 defense skill buff you know. :p

The larger point she was making there, one of the same points I originally made, is that speedrunning - as so many are used to doing it - has neither taught nor encouraged effective use of class/job skills or good habits.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

I just don't get it. Reading some of these posts genuinely made my head hurt. Do people expect new things to come from 4 man dungeons we've done ad nauseam? Why would you not want to go faster? For what reason? Do you not have other things going on in your life that you'd like to do? Do you set aside 2 hours for your expert roulette that day? Why not get it done as fast as possible and then move on with your life? I really am trying my hardest to wrap my head around why anyone would want to take their time in a 4 man dungeon they've done 10 times before. I would love for someone to explain it, because it is genuinely boggling my mind.

---

Hi Spooky,

I agree that there's nothing "new" the 10th time you've run a dungeon compared to the 2nd time (1st time has that awe/wow factor, etc.).

But by your line of questioning, EVERYTHING in this game is the same the 10th time as the 2nd time. Gathering (the same 4 boring chops per tree), FATEs (you kill a bunch of mobs, mindless), Coil, Primals (look, it's Landslide again, Weight of the Land, etc.).

"Yes," it's not that engaging, but by your reasoning the ultimate distillation of your feelings is:

* To give you a Button that with a Single Click will give you a "REWARD". Done.

Why play the game? Going through any of the Primals for the Hundredth Time isn't any more engaging than before. It's boring and mindless.

That being said, I made a point earlier in this thread that part of the problem is the fundamentally boring Combat System. Yoshi P removed the idea of Party Combos (stuff like Skillchains (Renkei) and Battle Regimens (1.0), which added an *engaging* Meta / Iterant Gameplay System, that would keep even the most basic Battle (from in the open world, in a dungeon, in Primal fights, to Coil, etc.) dynamic and interesting. Figuring out what Party Combos / Skillchains to mix and match with players in any fight. It wouldn't solve everything, but it helps a great deal.

BTW, I'm not saying I like the Dungeons the way they are either. They are very linear, predictable, filled with trash mobs, and don't offer much in terms of rewards. There should be a better solution.

Asking for Speed Runs is only a bandaid on a much deeper issue.

My problem isn't really with single target encounters, boss fights in 4mans are perfectly fine as is - in fact, I think the 2nd bosses in all of the new dungeons are great. Even doing these as quick as possible requires mastery of your job or at least your rotation, so there is no real problem with repetitively doing Primals/Coil/etc. However, trash is trash - in pre-50 dungeons it mattered more since it gave you exp, so skipping stuff wasn't really beneficial to you. At 50 you have no reason to bother with trash, so burning it down and getting through it as fast as possible to get to the boss that actually requires at least a little bit of concentration is optimal. Slow or fast, it's going to be the same trash with the same auto attacks and random melee AOE cleaves/circles. While I agree that the combat is fundamentally boring, I don't think this has any effect on trash in dungeons. Even with the most unique skills, you'd still just be burning trash. If they gave trash any sort of meaningful mechanics, like the bees in pre-nerf Qarn, then i'd be fine with how the dungeons are gated to stop speedrunning, but as it is right now there might as well be a path straight to the boss with buttons you have to press along the way to open doors that are just in the way.

Forced stops are honestly grating and boring design. The trash in endgame dungeons don't do a damn interesting thing and is somehow less of a threat than the trash in midgame dungeons.

That said, I don't feel that speedruns are either a problem or a solution. They are a symptom of bland dungeon trash design. I actually enjoy most of the boss fights but I can only think of a few pieces of dungeon trash that actually interest me endgame, and many of them are no longer relevant.

If S-E wants to stop speedrunners they should actually make the trash and environments threatening and interesting enough to A) not be speedrunnable in the latest patch in most cases, and B) Not bore players to death fighting them.

Trash mobs are never going to be interesting. They're called trash for a reason; to slow you down and be simple and quick to fight so that you got something to do in between boss fights. "Interesting" trash mobs are the boss encounters.

If anything, I hope the devs add more Zelda-esque mechanics to current and future dungeons and maybe institute a star rating system like FFXIII that rates our participation in the dungeon rather than the speed in which we complete them.

Some mechanics that I'd be happy to see:
*Puzzle rooms (think Forest Temple in Ocarina of Time) that yield special rewards (Alexandrites, Treasure maps, etc.)
*Story rooms (Ramuh's test in FFIX). Reward: 3- or 4-star crafting items for each player
*Security codes for doors (Castle Oztroja in FFXI) that require reading slips of paper left on the ground and change for each instance.

Square would also not make mechanics too complex because they "don't want to stress/confuse their players". Yes I know I am the bearer of bad news, but knowing how Square thinks, they think most of their players are stupid. As much as I want to disagree with them, I keep getting people who prove them right.

It's sad for me to see how lost they seem to be with tuning new dungeons.

This whole mess can be tracked back to the few loud voices of people complaining about the "difficulty" of the dungeons released in 2.1..

This last patch was an improvement, though sadly this dungeons are still easier than the 2.0 release ones were when we were all gimp geared..
But they committed their worst mistake with dungeons yet, instead of adding trash that simply does not allow you to aoe pull due to damage and/or mechanics they decided to put in full stop barriers where you just fight 2-3 mobs that are a joke..
I have no issue with spending more time in dungeons either because of wipes or just because the challenge forces me to spend that much time, but forcing me to stay there extra time just to be hitting what are pretty much striking dummies is just not cool.

That said there's no reason why we shouldn't have speedrunning be a thing, of course people simply shouldn't EVER(this is a main point) speedrun if their group isn't up for it.
But speedrunning (or time attack runs) is a great way to keep dungeons engaging long after their release(i'll touch on that in a few paragraphs :p) for those who like to do that stuff.. killing them completely is a mistake..

It's also weird to me how many people seem to be disgusted of them and even go so far as saying that it makes players bad somehow which is just not true, after all good players can speedrun and do it faster and bad ones can't and i'll just leave it at that..


On another note, what i'd really like to see them do in the future would be to completely revamp the expert roulette by doing as follows:

• Making all the cap level dungeons part of the high level roulette.
• Expert roulette also now has all the dungeons but with a twist, it places ilvl sync (let's say 0-5 ilvls above min req, details aren't important) on your runs to make it a truly "expert" run
• Runs are timed and rewards are given accordingly (maybe bronze/silver/gold like other games have done) with a fixed daily reward bonus for completion and "in need" as we have now
• Create leaderboards for run time(system is already there in lodestone) and add achievements for clearing dungeons in x time ranking(many achievements :D)

Nothing in this list is new but i still find them good ideas and it has worked for other games, and it's a great way to keep cap dungeons(and we get a lot of them, we have what 13+ lvl 50 dungeons?!) 100% relevant and keep the community engaged with them(people chasing higher run ratings, leaderboard positions), and simply a good way of content recycling and it just fits so nicely with the ilvl sync system they have in place..

There's another big thing they need to change going forward: itemization and dungeon rewards. For this one i have no suggestions atm but i hope they find something..

Would like to hear what other people in this game community think of this, dunno if it was talked about in this thread or another but if so i apologize.

Sorry for the long post :p

P.S. : Speedrunning doesn't refer necessarily to aoe group pulling and just spamming stuff on them but simply figuring out ways to dungeons faster regardless of what they are..
P.S. 2: Also this isn't about running dungeons in 5,10,15m they could take 1hr or 2hr for all i care so long as i'm actually engaged in them somehow.

It's been almost 2 years now since 1.23b ended, I was legacy too but 1.0 sucked, It's desighns, it's dificultys swings (Feild monsters are all lvl 10 and below but Twelve forbid should you go in satasha below level 25). I played Paladin during the speed run eras, but not because I liked speed running, I played Paladin because it was cue convenent. As a Dragoon DPS I HATE tanks that think they can speed run but cant. Healing us too dificult, dps slowes down when our TP and MP runs out, then when the Healer's MP runs out, We, All, DIE.

So speed runs needed to not exist to begin with. The "Drops" in the Hull Breaker and Quarn, I like em. It gives the designs some uniqueness. They are also irrelevent from a "It drops my HP" point of veiw because Hullbreaker's is AFTER you beat a boss and Quarn HM's is BEFORE you fight one that's behind a door that you can't open with out clearing the Mobs any way. So all these point are irrelevent.

Speed runs were good for Pre-50s with new party members for the EXP bonus. After you hit Castrum at 50 though these bonuses stop. The Sol bonus can be achived with a new player as long as you clear in less than 30 minutes. if you take all 90 minutes to clear the EX dungeons then somthing is horably wrong in your team.

Long story short there is no practical use for speed runing. The Darkhold thing is invalid as well because in 1.0 Darkhold was a post 50 dungeon and Batrall was one of THE hardest bosses in the game. He can still be tough now if every one is new but it's a simple, streat forward, and most of the time easy fight even if you are new.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BobbinT

PLD does have 4 defense skill buff you know. :p

---

Well with ideal group setup (PLD,WHM,BRD,BLM)you only need HG as no matter how big the pack is it should melt in less than 10sec :P Also if for some reason your BLM gets aggro just toss Cover on him so he can tank rest of it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Synestra

Well with ideal group setup (PLD,WHM,BRD,BLM)you only need HG as no matter how big the pack is it should melt in less than 10sec :P Also if for some reason your BLM gets aggro just toss Cover on him so he can tank rest of it.

---

HG will not block damage incurred via cover.

I don't care for speed runs but I would like chain pulling. The only time I didn't really like the big pulls was the massive pulls tanks could do in Brayflox Hard and that is because of the goblins that dive on random players makes it a lot freaking harder to heal. A lot of the tanks that speed run don't understand what does damage and why people are taking damage from monsters.

You can do the runs decently fast now but there are so many people with 50 tanks that you can end up with some really slow runs >.>.

For me which party is a way to play, i love dungeons so i dont mind keeping a normal pace to clear and i'm fine with Speeds run too. I know people dont want to waste time, just want the loot, well i want that too but i apreciate every single minute of the dungeon's run. I'm a MNK ilv 114 and i think dungeons like "taking a break from raiding" stuff. I've never ran from a dungeon's run even with there is only new players, never got a 30 min penalty since my first log on. That's why roulettes exist, to veteran's play with new players and enjoy the experience and earn soldiery bonus. Instead of leaving try teaching to avoid wipes. I never forget what is the main purpose of this game, have fun and make new friends. I have a SCH ilv 110 too if it is a normal pace run i'll help dps if it is a speed run i just heal, either way is fine, just want to have fun, if u play a game your objective must be that, at the end of the week i'll have same poetics everyone have. ^^

Most people are replying as if every group is terrible. And that they are going slow if the party wants which is fine by me.

The problem is groups who can do speed runs and handle massive pulls still can't speed run because of the dumb mechanics.

If I want to clear a dungeon in less than 10 minutes. I should be allowed to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Most people are replying as if every group is terrible. And that they are going slow if the party wants which is fine by me.

The problem is groups who can do speed runs and handle massive pulls still can\\'t speed run because of the dumb mechanics.

If I want to clear a dungeon in less than 10 minutes. I should be allowed to.

---

I want to properly learn the dungeons and classes, but speedrunning wont allow that.
I also want to watch the MS cinematics, but who has time for that?

Dungeons are for new players to learn, and for learning alts.
I see a LOT of threads about the d-baggery of other players, the general theme is kick because they will cause wipe (before the dungeon can even truly begin!).
Promoting speed runs makes bad end game players because they cant properly learn the class or mechanics.

The "use party finder and go as slow as you want" (dont know if it was touched on again since page 1 or 2) argument is bs.
Not everyone has a full friend list and not everyone in your FC and LSs may want to or be available to run dungeons at your bidding.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverwell

stuff that ignores that almost everyone needs to run dungeons to cap poetics/gain soldiery

---

Yea, ok. You seem to have missed the entire point of the thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ellatrix

Yea, ok. You seem to have missed the entire point of the thread.

---

I believe I understand the point of the thread.
"Let me speedrun because I dont have time to help n00bs L2P! Capping is more important than learning the mechanics and helping n00bs! LOL, n00b, *vote kick succeeds*"
Unless I missed something in the last ten-eleven pages?
Thats what I read the first page as.

Well you've confirmed you completely lack reading comprehension in addition to missing the point of the thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverwell

I believe I understand the point of the thread.
"Let me speedrun because I dont have time to help n00bs L2P! Capping is more important than learning the mechanics and helping n00bs! LOL, n00b, *vote kick succeeds*"
Unless I missed something in the last ten-eleven pages?
Thats what I read the first page as.

---

Yeah first page, I said it's the mechanics that I don't like. I have no problem with going slow for new players. So you missed my point and like 4th person to say I don't like to go slow for new people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Yeah first page, I said it's the mechanics that I don't like. I have no problem with going slow for new players. So you missed my point and like 4th person to say I don't like to go slow for new people.

---

But that's why the mechanics were put in place-- because there are a lot of people who DO get grumpy about going slow for new players. Many, many times I've been slotted into a dungeon with a tank who just zooms off doing a speedrun without ever asking if the rest of the party was okay with that. It's one thing to speedrun if everyone agrees that's what they want to do. It's something else entirely when players just assume that everyone in the party is down for it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LunaHoshino

But that's why the mechanics were put in place-- because there are a lot of people who DO get grumpy about going slow for new players. Many, many times I've been slotted into a dungeon with a tank who just zooms off doing a speedrun without ever asking if the rest of the party was okay with that. It's one thing to speedrun if everyone agrees that's what they want to do. It's something else entirely when players just assume that everyone in the party is down for it.

---

Not only this, but honestly, I've been the healer in plenty of PuG groups in the new EX. roulette dungeons this patch where people still do the large pulls where they can/up to whatever roadblock/gate is in the way. And not going to lie....it doesn't matter that the gate is there...if you ran beyond THAT spot with all the mobs you have+ picked up more, it wouldn't end well. Maybe, maybe with an ave ilvl 120ish group you could handle2-4 more mobs in the pile...but really, the gear (even more so than skill) disparity between players is getting larger and larger and unless you are going in with people you know/geared to the teeth, you really can't pull more than the size of pulls already available.

So sure, there might be a spot or two here and there where the mechanics slow you down (Snowcloak and the room where the mobs pop in waves but only after you kill each wave will more pop for example), but overall, when there's a gate, it would have been the logical 'pull to point' anyway. Also, Snowcloak has more of these 'gates' than the other two dungeons....but it is also the dungeon linked to the storyline, so likely those 'stops' were put into place since SE likely knew more 'undergeared' people were likely to show up in that queue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

-snip-

---

The healers are the ones I always feel bad for in speedruns because they're the ones who bear the brunt of it from trying to keep the tank alive (and the DPS, if the tank ends up losing aggro on any of the enemies, which happens a lot). My TP running low isn't nearly as much of an issue as the healer running out of MP.