Please fix dresses!

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Originally Posted by A_Magical_Unicorn_Rider

Amateurs always go for the breasteses.

Life is all about ass.

#datass

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I hate to break it to you but we can't have a proper ass in this game because... reasons!
Reasons I say!!

So, you'll have to settle for bewbs.
Although, I do wish they'd plump up the butts a bit but since they aren't willing to fix the horrible clipping in game, they won't fix the flat behinds either. -_-;

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Originally Posted by Anapingofness

I hate to break it to you but we can't have a proper ass in this game because... reasons!
Reasons I say!!

So, you'll have to settle for bewbs.
Although, I do wish they'd plump up the butts a bit but since they aren't willing to fix the horrible clipping in game, they won't fix the flat behinds either. -_-;

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Hey now.. I actually like your butt. And mine as well! ROEBUTTSftw!

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Originally Posted by Anapingofness

I hate to break it to you but we can't have a proper ass in this game because... reasons!
Reasons I say!!

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Fortunately, some of the butt-flatness was due to the awkward pelvic tilt of the models' idle poses. /changepose marginally fixes that in some cases.

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Originally Posted by TeaTimeBear

Hey now.. I actually like your butt. And mine as well! ROEBUTTSftw!

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;________________________________; you spoil me... -feeds Belle cookies- ROEBUTTSFTW!!

Nevertheless.... behold!
http://i670.photobucket.com/albums/v...ps4530e4e8.png

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

Fortunately, some of the butt-flatness was due to the awkward pelvic tilt of the models' idle poses. /changepose marginally fixes that in some cases.

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I honestly think it's because of the normals they've used.
From the direct back view the behind looks decent enough, 3/4 starts to show some of the flatness, by the time you go into full profile it's completely flat.
I could be wrong though... o.o;;
And if it is because of the weird pelvic tilt then there isn't much to be done D=

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Originally Posted by givemeraptors

To be fair a lot of people wanted to be able to dye those sets. I'm sure some people also didn't appreciate running [insert dungeon here] 30 times just to obtain [insert set name here] pieces. They could have added them all as level 1 items (see: colosseum gear), but I think they opted to kill two birds with one stone and I don't really begrudge them for that.

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I don't have an issue with them adding those models in again but using the excuse of we can't do this due to us focusing on adding a wide variety of models to the game as a reason for not fixing things when they are clearly reusing models constantly with a different skin or color is what my problem is

So lets try this.

There are pieces of gear that cause fewer clipping issues than others, it's possible with the game engine, but not every piece is created using the same correct dimensions/physics/design. Share the gear that should be used as a basis for what works. Reply to this post with examples of long clothing, high collars etc.

Does it have less clipping? Does it not clip at all? Does it look good while standing in a breeze. Does it not clip while doing common animations like running, walking or in combat? Mention it!

The idea here is that we tell the devs what we think works. They can take what they know from making these outfits that DO work, and use that to continue making a bunch of gear that works moving forward.

Note what race you used the outfit on, talk about the name of the item or set, and what works about it. How these aspects can be applied to existing problem outfits and future gear.

For example.

On Lalafell: while the spring dress has clipping issues. The Elk pvp gear appears to have little to no issues with clipping with feet while running.
This seems to be because the back goes out more.
The Cashmere Robe has very little noticeable clipping, partly due to a shorter length and being a bit 'stiffer' with it's physics, so it doesn't droop through the feet like the spring skirt or crescent robe does.

It seems like every games on the planet still have clipping issue no matter how powerful our hardware is nowadays. so annoying.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Camate: I'll answer the question. You want answers?
Grekumah: I think I'm entitled!
Camate: You want answers?!
Grekumah: I want the truth!
Camate: You can't handle the truth!

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Yeah ok. Why even bother saying this? It's off topic and has very little relation to whats being discussed here.

I'll take it at face value. We can't handle the truth? Maybe we need some actual truth. A response from one of the people involved in designing outfits, we could decide if we are or aren't ready to handle the truths of whats going on. Pass this on to the team and see if they could provide some actual details - they're obviously working hard, maybe they can explain some things for us.

I've got another thread where we got a straight answer from one of the people involved with working on hotbar sets. We had some of the constraints they had to work with and why some things just weren't going to be possible explained to us.

What I've seen so far in this thread and the one referenced previously by Grekuman doesn't explain why a lot of new gear coming out; cosmetic outfits who's sole purpose in the game is to look nice mind you; why these outfits aren't up to par with gear that's come out previously. There are plenty of loose fitting outfits that go past the knees, robes and coats - not that much different from skirts and dresses and gowns, that have this issue solved or minimized.

What's making these newer pieces so special that they are immune to what made the other things work? Why can't these problems be solved with what worked in the past?

http://puu.sh/araoG/efbc9ac958.jpg

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Originally Posted by Phenidate

Yeah ok. Why even bother saying this? It's off topic and has very little relation to whats being discussed here.

I'll take it at face value. We can't handle the truth? Maybe we need some actual truth. A response from one of the people involved in designing outfits

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See, and people wonder why the comm reps are usually "not responding" lol. Anyway, they told us during beta exactly why - To get gear out faster, which they said a few times before. Players wanted faster updates so in all actuality, they're simply giving us what we (not me) asked for.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

See, and people wonder why the comm reps are usually "not responding" lol. Anyway, they told us during beta exactly why - To get gear out faster, which they said a few times before. Players wanted faster updates so in all actuality, they're simply giving us what we (not me) asked for.

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I think what bothers people (incl me) is the "large variety" part when clearly this is not the case.

There are two things about the 1st comm rep's response. 1: he repeats the "large variety" (there is none, go back a few pages and you see me explaining exactly what is happening with gear). 2: new gear clips where earlier, similar released gear doesn't. Isn't that a bit odd? I understand corners need to be cut, but these are vicious shortcuts.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

See, and people wonder why the comm reps are usually "not responding" lol. Anyway, they told us during beta exactly why - To get gear out faster, which they said a few times before. Players wanted faster updates so in all actuality, they're simply giving us what we (not me) asked for.

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If all they have to add is a cheesy movie quote with names swapped in... I'm not looking for a friend to tell jokes to me. I'm looking for a community representative to speak with us and communicate our concerns to the dev team.

The quality of gear is dropping with these new cosmetics - missing the solutions to long loose clothing like other robes and coats and gowns - and suffering clipping issues because of it. Rather than addressing these concerns we're told they will not even address them at all and gave us a response from 2 months ago as reiteration.

Two months ago we didn't have the newer sets of cosmetic outfits.

I'm guessing that by stonewalling us with a two month old response, this issue won't even be passed along to the art team.

http://i.imgur.com/WC5Ht2D.jpg

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Originally Posted by Phenidate

Rather than addressing these concerns we're told they will not even address them at all and gave us a response from 2 months ago as reiteration.

Two months ago we didn't have the newer sets of cosmetic outfits.

I'm guessing that by stonewalling us with a two month old response, this issue won't even be passed along to the art team.

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Contrary to belief, the response we posted was the reply that we received when we brought up this thread. While it is reiterating what was mentioned before, this is the current plan for these types of issues. Should anything change, we'll be sure to let you know.

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Originally Posted by Phenidate

I'm guessing that by stonewalling us with a two month old response, this issue won't even be passed along to the art team.

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They'll pass it along but there's no plans to fix it as, despite word usage, there is a 'large variety' of gear - Remember, variety can mean:

-Vanity usage
-Different sets of stats (you know, variety?)
-Ways to obtain

Things like that still fall under variety. Look at XI, there's an astronomical variety of gear in that game, but many recycled models and it's still not incorrect to say there's a variety of gear in XI. So while it would be nice, nitpicking the 'variety' when pretty much every MMO recycles..is a bit....silly when you get down to it.

As for what you showed, simply doing that change won't really fix it in the long run, it'd just honestly make matters worse when you think about it. One of the main issues simply is the universal bones (I suppose you can say) since they didn't want to differentiate the races and genders this go round.

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Originally Posted by Grekumah

Contrary to belief, the response we posted was the reply that we received when we brought up this thread. While it is reiterating what was mentioned before, this is the current plan for these types of issues. Should anything change, we'll be sure to let you know.

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And the newest member of our community team holds no punches! :D Telling it like it is!

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Originally Posted by Barboron

And the newest member of our community team holds no punches! :D Telling it like it is!

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A straight answer like that is preferred.

My stance on clipping still stands, it's good to know they heard what we think on the matter. Maybe in the future they'll go back and tweak the outfits the way they did with some of those hairstyles.

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Originally Posted by Phenidate

Greetings,

This is similar to what we asked for and replied to your response in the past, but I would like to reiterate it for the devs who think we still want quantity over quality.

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Who's this "we" you keep mentioning?

Not me or any in my fc to begin with. As we are all fine with small clipping issues if it means faster release of content. Also pretty safe to say all those who want more content would agreee too.

You seem to be misspelling I as we.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Who's this "we" you keep mentioning?

Not me or any in my fc to begin with. As we are all fine with small clipping issues if it means faster release of content. Also pretty safe to say all those who want more content would agreee too.

You seem to be misspelling I as we.

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I didnt realize you and your FC were the only other players than them in the game, sorry to disagree but their term WE is correct as evident in this thread its more than just that single player who isnt happy about this.

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Originally Posted by Phenidate

A straight answer like that is preferred.

My stance on clipping still stands, it's good to know they heard what we think on the matter. Maybe in the future they'll go back and tweak the outfits the way they did with some of those hairstyles.

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You were given a straight answer to begin with. From Camate himself, right here:

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Originally Posted by Camate

Due to this the development team has decided to continue putting the designs ahead of the concerns about clipping.

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And it's not a matter of quantity over quality either. There's limitations to the quality due to limitations in hardware. The more quality you want in, the more your system has to deal with. Be it the PS3, PS4, or PC. I'm not going to get into a debate about one platform holding another back because, well...that's a B.S. excuse. You're entitled to your stance on clipping of course. Personally, I am not playing for COSPLAY, as much as I like a good glamour, but I think the system is fine as is.

there are a lot of easy fixes SE refuses to address as well a lot of easy ways to design and implement hair designs but refuse to add nice styles versus the 1 ugly one every 3 months, but w/e you have to deal with it.

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Originally Posted by Jamesy

there are a lot of easy fixes SE refuses to address as well a lot of easy ways to design and implement hair designs but refuse to add nice styles versus the 1 ugly one every 3 months, but w/e you have to deal with it.

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The problem here is that 'nice' is subjective. The Dev. Team might think they are nice, or even other players. Not saying some of them aren't awful looking, but again that is just another opinion. Whatever has been released, might as well be left as is because going back and changing stuff obviously isn't worth the returns on investment. SE is still a company making money and if it isn't deemed to influence income...its not worth doing.

Ways to obtain gear and the stats assigned to it has zero to do with this discussion about the design and appearance of gear. When it's glamoured the stats on the old piece of gear are moot.

We're being told they're working on giving us a lot of new gear. So far we've been getting recycled low level armor and a limited number of new gear. And cosmetics which despite the intention of looking nice, fall short of the quality of even a level 1 robe.

This thread was about dresses and skirts, and how they clip through the lower middle portion of the outfit because they moved the verts of the dress to close to the legs. The physics they applied should have been the same they use for robes.

This whole things been derailed and shifted to address fixing all clipping ever. Before I bow out of this thread, I want to make one thing clear:

Clipping is something we won't escape until a future time where cloth simulation is near perfect. I can live with clipping here and there, I have ways to alter my appearance and pick gear that fits with a central piece. The issues presented by me in this thread are beyond these solutions and are a fault of the gear displaying on the character model itself.
It would be nice if the principles behind other dress like gear was applied to the design and modeling of current and newer dresses, skirts and dress like gear. The newest gear we've received is a step back and lacks the improvements made to previously released skirted gear. Such gear had greatly reduced clipping issues.
The older gear is some of the best rendered I've seen in any MMO, but that quality hasn't been carried through from the past couple patches.

I've offered suggestions on how it may be fixed with little effort, nothing too difficult beyond tweaking the mesh. If the dev team thinks that's too hard, that this gear is good enough, glaring self clipping issues and all, it's a reflection on them.

The skirt is no departure from what we've had before, it's the longer lower half of a robe that doesn't take up a chest slot. The Gown is practically the same as the Vanyas in silhouette, with different greeble stuck to it.

Stop pretending like they've innovated here, as if this is a new thing to the team. They solved these issues before, these solutions should have been applied once again.

Almost every MMO or single player game iv played has some type of clipping

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Originally Posted by Zileth

Almost every MMO or single player game iv played has some type of clipping

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Yes, but the clipping in this game is SO BAD. For a game that is otherwise so beautiful, I do not understand why they have such glaring clipping errors. I have seen weapon sets that clip into THEMSELVES, nevermind clipping into the character or other sets of gear. And I have also seen a multitude of other games and other MMOs where a character could wear a robe without their feet cutting through the back every time they move. It is not an impossible issue to fix.

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Originally Posted by Yurimi

I didnt realize you and your FC were the only other players than them in the game, sorry to disagree but their term WE is correct as evident in this thread its more than just that single player who isnt happy about this.

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So, you taking a tiny percentage of the population that actually posts on the forums as an indication of what everyone wants? There's more players who disagree in my FC than have posted in this thread. Don't count individual posts as many people have posted more than once in this thread.

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Originally Posted by Phenidate

I've offered suggestions on how it may be fixed with little effort, nothing too difficult beyond tweaking the mesh. If the dev team thinks that's too hard, that this gear is good enough, glaring self clipping issues and all, it's a reflection on them.[/B]

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If it took as little effort, don't you think they would have done it? They are paid professionals in their field, I'm pretty sure they know better what takes little effort or more effort that would cause a delay in the release of content. But if you are such an expert in 3d modelling and physics at a level that you can "instruct" professionals. Why aren't you working for a major games company?

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

If it took as little effort, don't you think they would have done it? They are paid professionals in their field, I'm pretty sure they know better what takes little effort or more effort that would cause a delay in the release of content. But if you are such an expert in 3d modelling and physics at a level that you can "instruct" professionals. Why aren't you working for a major games company?

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These problems are easy to fix. This has little to do with effort and entirely the development process they follow that doesn't allow fixing previous things on a whim. You might have noticed they only ever state things will be fixed moving forwards.

Just don't even start if you don't understand anything.

Regardless of this, if the bar is so low that even the base character mesh that doesn't change (like hair does) is clipping through gear. We have problems.

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Originally Posted by Tiraelina

These problems are easy to fix.

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So if it is so easy to fix, why was "the problem" there when they created the items? Why not work for SE and show them how it's done instead of saying what is and what isn't easy with zero proof you have any idea what you are talking about.

This isn't exactly on topic, but it's on the topic of dresses, so I thought I'd ask it here. Will Dress Material be used in future recipes or just the Spring Dresses that now exist. I thought maybe a Summer Dress might come but July 8 didn't produce anything new in that department. I'm trying to decide if I should save my Dress Material for a future recipe or go ahead and make the Spring Dress that exists now as that's it.

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Originally Posted by RickiFake02

Yes, but the clipping in this game is SO BAD. For a game that is otherwise so beautiful, I do not understand why they have such glaring clipping errors. I have seen weapon sets that clip into THEMSELVES, nevermind clipping into the character or other sets of gear. And I have also seen a multitude of other games and other MMOs where a character could wear a robe without their feet cutting through the back every time they move. It is not an impossible issue to fix.

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What point are you trying to make? Models not attached to the default body is only natural to clip stuff. What do you expect your character animations to do when you run into a wall? Adjust themselves so you do not clip into the wall?

Same goes for weapons. Animations are not made with all the weapons on, and new weapons are also not tested in every single animation. You can claim you think it should be tested, but that is far beyond what a company usually has time with when they have to push out new things with speed.

Also I wish the text limit wouldn't always seem to include the quote as well. So annoying to type little and yet be cock blocked by the forum due to the quoted text.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

What point are you trying to make? Models not attached to the default body is only natural to clip stuff. What do you expect your character animations to do when you run into a wall? Adjust themselves so you do not clip into the wall?

Same goes for weapons. Animations are not made with all the weapons on, and new weapons are also not tested in every single animation. You can claim you think it should be tested, but that is far beyond what a company usually has time with when they have to push out new things with speed.

Also I wish the text limit wouldn't always seem to include the quote as well. So annoying to type little and yet be cock blocked by the forum due to the quoted text.

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Finally, someone with a clue :)

Plus the anims are mo-cap.

I wasn't talking about animations. I have seen weapons that clipped into themselves with zero animations, just "holstered" on the character, and clipping into themselves. The one that sticks out in my head is a bow/arrow combo. The bow clipped through the arrows on the character's back when the bow was holstered. Can they not simply design the weapon to at least not clip into ITSELF, regardless of the character?

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

So if it is so easy to fix, why was "the problem" there when they created the items? Why not work for SE and show them how it's done instead of saying what is and what isn't easy with zero proof you have any idea what you are talking about.

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You're really just showing me you've never touched 3d modelling or rigging and animation in your life. I'm also not privy to their Q&A process. For all I know they never tested running animations with them in the first place on Lalafells. Maybe they did and didn't feel it was worth fixing like the plethora of tail related issues. Feel free to tell us, you seem to the be the professional armchair around here with all of the answers.

It's still going to back to my previous answer that is their chosen development process.

I agree, where is this "large variety"? So far EVERYTHING has been more of the same. Boss fights? Dodge dodge dodge. Literally no good multiphase fights that aren't just "find the tiny patch on the floor that none of these crossing beams, bombs, and\or waves are touching. One of the best examples of a multiphase boss fight I have ever done was Akylios in Rift. Garuda here comes really close, and Ultima would too if it wasn't just the Avatars coming to the floor and shooting stuff at us (dodge dodge dodge) - why weren't they made a mechanic we actually have to SWITCH to to fight?


So they aren't working on fight content, let's move on to equipment. EVERYONE looks the same. Seriously, they do. Even with glamour there are only a few pieces per job that are pleasing and EVERYONE either wears it, or glamours into it. There's not a lot of variety. WoW might be a pixelated eyesore compared to this game, but there are threads thousands of pages long on the official forums and on facebook of people showing off their transmogs, and 90% of them are all different.

So you might say that it's harder here because the game is prettier. Maybe, but SE made their bed and now they have to lie in it. Stop making excuses and make your product. Japanese CEOs must be too polite to tell you that your responses are inadequate, so I will. Your response is inadequate.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

So you might say that it's harder here because the game is prettier.

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Nope, they stated pretty much speed/quantity > quality pretty much and the fact everyone (in general) seems to be eating this game up since it's "WoW enough" they really have not much they need to change about what they do. As said, variety can mean multiple things and with SE they always use something that can have multiple meanings, per definition variety simply means absence of uniformity, so they could also be talking about purposes of gear or where you get, not exactly appearance (which people would automatically assume.)

Even in XI they're showing more creativity and update monthly, sometimes pretty sizable (for how old that game is) so it's not really 'harder', they seem to set their cards on the Expansion.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

So if it is so easy to fix, why was "the problem" there when they created the items? Why not work for SE and show them how it's done instead of saying what is and what isn't easy with zero proof you have any idea what you are talking about.

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IMO, they like to give us things that are half-baked and refuse to put it in the oven a bit longer. Not just
gear/vanity a lot of stuff in this game is like that aka rushed anyways....
There are different teams for this game, I guess they rather re-hash old gear and put a different colour and sew an add-on
here and there than fix these lil' things.

To me, this seems to be a problem on the level of the grass way back when ARR was being released...

Don't think they ever fixed that "problem".

People sure love to complain about stuff they have little knowledge of, the majority in this thread want results but have no idea how intricate or complicated what they want is to implement not to mention how time and resource consuming it would be.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

So, you taking a tiny percentage of the population that actually posts on the forums as an indication of what everyone wants? There's more players who disagree in my FC than have posted in this thread. Don't count individual posts as many people have posted more than once in this thread.

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I dont even know where to begin with how wrong this is... you think that just because more people agree with you in your FC than disagree with you here thats an indication that your way is right... did you ask EVERYONE on your entire server ? because your FC is an even smaller subset of players than the representation of forum posters here...

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

So they aren't working on fight content, let's move on to equipment. EVERYONE looks the same. Seriously, they do. Even with glamour there are only a few pieces per job that are pleasing and EVERYONE either wears it, or glamours into it. There's not a lot of variety. WoW might be a pixelated eyesore compared to this game, but there are threads thousands of pages long on the official forums and on facebook of people showing off their transmogs, and 90% of them are all different.

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You mean the game that had 7 years worth of gear from previous content patches for people to transmog as of the patch Transmogrification was implemented? You're making an unfair comparison.

WoW had several tier sets per class, a bunch of non-set pieces, a shit ton of weapons, not to mention once-in-a-lifetime stuff like the dungeons sets from vanilla and TBC.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

You're making an unfair comparison.

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To be fair whenever comparisons come up you yourself also jump towards comparing to WoW - At least with comparisons to XI it's because it's the same company and largely same team so it's easier to question why it seems like they step backwards in comparison in a lot of situations.

Also to be fair, WoW's gear usually ended up as vanity gear even if it wasn't designed as such simply because of the way itemization worked in that game, so in comparison, if you take gear from launch - now and consider it glamour fodder, she's right in saying WoW has more variety, but the fact most gear that wasn't designed strictly for vanity in XIV never turned into such.