Very true. I liked much more the frenzy mechanics before auto-attack...IMO they could keep AA...not a problem at all...many people like it...but they should keep basic attacks with 2 sec delay in exchange of increased slot cost, forthose that would rather keeping their own battle pace...and if you ask me "why 2 seconds?" i'd say "because the fastest AA has 2.3 delay"...and, just like any game that offer the option of using somehing automatic or manual, the manual usage, exactly because is much more complex and require more effort, would always have an improved performance against the automatic usage...any game you see this, from racing to MMOs, if you can choose the automatic will bring flexibility to user and the manual will bring performance. I don't see why FFXIV can't be like this...Quote:
Originally Posted by Physic
Its what i keep repeating to dev team over and over and over again...adding features will always offer better results than fully replacing them.
Dear god increase the autoattack speed of marauder..
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08-03-2011, 12:46 AMLienn
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08-03-2011, 03:33 AMScapeYour nutts. The system was crap. You should not be able to swing a great axe just as fast as a dagger AND do more damage per hit. You just want everything to be easy for you with no thought of balance or what? Your lucky they didn't go the other route of balancing, which would have been to keep things the way they were but reduce the damage done by all 2H weapons, considering they could already swing just as fast as 1H weapons.Quote:
I liked much more the frenzy mechanics before auto-attack
But really, the old system was crap and all it led to was every melee playing as if they were solo, even when in a party, and just spamming everything. Things are much better now for teamwork.
I still can't even believe some of you are crying like babies over this when the other classes got hit with delay too, and their delays are not very far ahead of yours at all, and rightfully so when considering they don't hit as hard per hit as a MRD does. -
08-03-2011, 05:51 AMLienn
Dude, weight has nothing to do with it. Yes, a dude can use a great axe as fast as a dagger...why not?
Its sad that now that all arguments regarding the positive points of this patch are gone people are using points that aren't even part of the game...hell...ships can fly here, bud! If a damn ship can fly like a balloon, why can't domeone swing their axes as fast as daggers? Its totally bulls#!t.
If you guys want things this realistic, lets ask SE too to have our character killed upon death...so if you die you will need to start over with a new character...realistic enough this way?
And if you want a real example, i give you adrenaline, bud. We've seen people lifting car with bare hands due adrenaline bursts...why wouldn't the dude be able to swing the axe fast this way? -
08-03-2011, 06:35 AMKumaAkuma
I did not like the old mechanics. Sure you could spamm a standard attack for some burst damage, but after that you had to wait. A lot of abilities got ignored as well, because they costed too much stamina. Now there is astilla burst at start, bit smaller, but you're finally free to use any ability you want without being punished.
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08-03-2011, 08:06 AMLienn
Only ones that had to wait in the old system were those that spammed the button. I know the old batte mechanics were full of minor flaws, but still it was much more lively than it is now...
I don't really care about stanmina being removed...IMO replacing stanmina with recast time is perfectly doable...what i don't stand about this new battle system is the speed...but its all about taste...i hate with passion rovk band games, but i know people that love them...its exactly the same. And this is my main problem with 1.18. I bought a game and i loved it...but then SE came, said "Hey, we don't want anyone playing it anymore!" and took my game away...and in exchange they gave me "FFXI: HD version". But i don't want FFXI...giving me FFXI is exactly the same of giving me a rock band game in exchange of my FFXIV.
And that'd why i hated this...and why i'm hating this dev team more and more...i had the game i wanted and now they took it away...and talking about FFXI copy...did you read the first translations regarding the new Famitsu? Yep, battle system isn't the limit for their lack of criativity...they will be also restricting crafter classes so you can only level up one past some point...
So lemme quote a line from letter from the procucer XIV: "Play However You Like" ...and then i ask...How can i play however i like if the dev team keep removing everything i like in this game?
I'm sorry posting all this crap here...its completely off-topic...but i'm just tired of a dev team that think that everything from FFXI is good and everything from FFXIV need to be removed. I can accept this attitude from players...some people just loved FFXI as much as i hated it or loved FFXIV...but this is unacceptable from a dev team that were supposed to bemaking the game better...
So, again, sorry for all this crying...its just too frustrating we seeing them asking for feedback at letter from the producer and then just going copy FFXI instead of thinking about something new...and i can say this openly because i am sure at least one of the feedback they had regarding every point that is planned to be a FFXI copy was original...mine. They might not be the best ideas, but at least they are not a copy/paste from a half dead 10yo game.
If FFXI was this good they wouldn't have to do these many server merges they did a few months ago. FFXI still has brand new content...where are all the so called FFXI lovers that aren't even playing it anymore? -
08-04-2011, 03:06 PMScapeA lot of abilities are much much better now that you don't have to wait for, or use up, 50% stamina. There was a lot I stayed away from or didn't use as often as I would like because the stamina hit was too large, or having to wait that long for it to activate just wasn't an option.Quote:
Originally Posted by KumaAkuma
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08-05-2011, 03:17 AMRexus
Some of you guys are crazy lol. MRD tank dead? Not at all. Ever since I switched to MRD from GLD, our Ogre/Batraal kills have been going faster. I hold hate just as well on MRD, maybe even better since I'm also throwing out 500-600 dmg Skull Sunder 2's on Ogre/Batraal lol. Also, I don't use Siphon TP and only have Invigorate 1, yet I can still keep up with BR's.
In fact, I'm more inclined to say GLD tanking is gimp (for these new dungeons). Shield skills become useless when Ogre/Batraal go under 50%, so what does that leave GLD with? Onion cut? I'm actually surprised more GLDs aren't complaining, there's literally no reason to use them for the new dungeons.
As for the delay complaints, I think some of you guys don't realize how balanced it really is. Archers also have a 4 second delay. Lancers have a 3.7 second delay (although, they do get Speed Surge). Gladiators delay doesn't matter. Pugilist probably got hit the hardest with their 3.3 second delay, since they can't spam Pummel anymore lol. Auto attack is going to feel slow for everyone, not just MRDs. -
08-05-2011, 01:15 PMViridianaAs it should be. I mean, who really thinks a Goldsmith should be tanking?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexus
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08-05-2011, 02:04 PMLiennThis joke is getting old already :/ Instead of making them go to localization forum and support my topic that asks GLD change to GSM to stop the confusion with GLA. ^^:Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridiana
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08-05-2011, 03:00 PMViridianaLike I said in your thread, it's mostly just that I'm a smartass. Getting laughs isn't the point of my sarcasm so much as getting people to realize that Gladiator is GLA. . .Quote:
Originally Posted by Lienn
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08-05-2011, 05:34 PMScapeYep, MRD tanks Ogre and Batraal really well. They are pretty bad ass on Batraal. Our MRD tanks Batraal and takes on one of the skelies at same time. Oh, and I keep telling everyone here that most other classes are about at the same delay or just a tad lower but no one here is wanting to hear it lol. They just want to go on acting as if MRD is the only one who has to deal with sitting there waiting to attack now. MRD is an absolute beast with TP if there is more then one mob around to smack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexus
I'm pretty sure everyone knows that its really GLA. But still, for a lot of us, myself included, it just feels more natural to say GLD. And really... who cares? Everyone knows what class is being talked about, there is really no reason to go out of your way to point anything out.Quote:
Like I said in your thread, it's mostly just that I'm a smartass. Getting laughs isn't the point of my sarcasm so much as getting people to realize that Gladiator is GLA. . .
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08-05-2011, 08:40 PMVydarrTyrQuote:
Originally Posted by Rexus
Arcs have a 4 second delay on Light Shot. They also have an auto-attack in addition to Light Shot. The equivalent would be letting Marauder use Heavy Swing every 4 seconds, whereas right now Marauder can only use it every 60 seconds. That's not even close to the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scape
Lancers have a quicker AA, which they can make even faster with Speed Surge, and they can they keep Invigorate up constantly, which creates a constant stream of TP.
Pugs' AA is about a full second faster than Marauder, and they can still use Pummel every 30 seconds, which gives them extra TP. (Also, I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that Pug's delay is 3.3 seconds. Verdant, Jade, and Crab Horas are all 2.9 seconds. Pieste Cesti is 3.0 seconds. There are some lower level Pug weapons at 3.2, but I don't see any high level Pug weapons at 3.3.)
Gladiators don't have native TP generating skills, but they AA every 2.5-2.6 seconds. If you can attack nearly twice as often, that is its own TP generating skill.
Mars have the slowest auto-attack (4.0-4.2 seconds), and their only chance to catch up in generating TP is if there are multiple mobs around so they can pop Broad Swing once every 30 seconds. If there aren't multiple mobs around, then Marauder has to wait the longest to AA, and they have no native TP generating skills.
I know you're saying there's only a second or so difference per auto-attack. But over a 10 minute NM fight, a 1 second difference means that the faster classes are getting 50 more attacks. That's 50 more chances to do damage, and 50 more chances to generate TP. Lancers are the second slowest, and they're getting about 25 more attacks every 10 minutes. Plus, Pug and Lancer have TP generating abilities, and Arc can spam Light Shot every 4 seconds.
I'm not saying that it's definitely imbalanced -- I haven't played the other classes enough to be able to say for sure -- but based just on the numbers and class abilities, it sure looks like Marauder's at a disadvantage. Which sucks, because I love playing Marauder. -
08-06-2011, 01:12 AMScape
they are not at a disadvantage though. they also hit harder then everyone else. And there are also things they can do that other melee can not. They are by far the best off tank, and sometimes even the best option for tank, along with doing a large amount of damage at the same time.
And really... now you guys are reaching for straws even more now..... really?.... Archers punch auto attack? Go see how many Archers are punching Ogre or Batraal and get back to me. You even used the phrase "Arc can spam Light Shot every 4 seconds." lol, how is that spamming!? Your MRD spams his attack every 4 seconds or so too.
The problem is that is seems like a lot of you want to be the best DD class. You all want everything, you want to be able to swing the fastest and be able to hit the hardest. Well you are not and you can't. MRD is up there as being a very good DD who can do a lot of other things that the other melee can not. So... why you crying? :D -
08-06-2011, 01:25 AMRatm3000
They should allow Marauder to use Speed Surge to help speed up attack and decrease the delay on the weapons. I hope they fix this soon...I miss playing Marauder.
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08-06-2011, 01:37 AMLienn
Not explaining it again. I'm pretty sure you already understood what me and some others are saying and is juust being an asshole. And if you don't, too bad.
But i'm never said about wanting MRD as the best DD ingame...neither about being the best tank either. It never was the best in any way and i doubt it will because what MRD was the best is something already extinct... You cannot go there and duo goblin NM or Mosshorn anymore because the role itself does not exist anymore...now it does is like Peregrine always claimed to be...now MRD is just a joke regarding AoE combat. Any mage or ARC now can outdamage it in both single target and AoE...what was never the case.
And that's exacytly what battle team cannot understand...you see the 1.18a MRD changes...they increased WS damage from most melee WSs...cool! Now MRD can stay even more behind the others because the only WS he could use in battle due its pathetic TP gain (skull sunder and fracture) didn't get a boost.
I do want to see storm path and maim new damage...but its just for fun...they didn't understand that MRD cannot store 1500~3000 TP during a fight...or he will spend half of it just using AA.
I really would love seeing a damage output parse after this patch...i really do! ^^:
Well, but its summer! Let everyone hide weapon, /pose and take some nasty SSs when summer event become availble! /o/
But anyway...i'm stopping commenting now until next patch...who knows...maybe the WS damage goes up enough to make up for the retard slow TP gain... -
08-06-2011, 01:40 AMTaruna-Aeon
Actually since i wrote my first post in this thread, ive gotten used to playing Marauder more, and its not as horrible as it seems :o but they could rework it a lill :)
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08-06-2011, 01:41 PMScapeQuote:
Originally Posted by Ratm3000
So MRD should get Speed Surge, a Lancer exclusive skill? In that case, everyone should have it, then we are right back where we are now with you complaining that MRD is slower then others.
I just really can't believe some of you have slow TP gains on MRD. You get pretty massive amounts of TP per swing when using a Great Axe and you have 3 attacks to be cycling through in between your auto attacks. Not to mention, Invigorate is easy to get.
MRD should be slower then others, there should be 0 complaint here. Why should you get to hit harder then others and also have a lower delay then them? -
08-06-2011, 02:13 PMLiennBecause you're LNC, of course. LNC has basic attacks stronger than MRD because the base attack from weapon is bigger and does is WAY faster than MRD...and if you say anything about heavy swing we will have to start over all that yadda yadda regarding recasts, TP gain, full thrust, single target, speed surge, etc, etc, etc...and i'm tired of a talk where MRD always lose...i'd rather the old posts where the idea was to defend the class, not attack it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scape
Some day maybe we all can come here, sit around the campfire and talk about our pirate adventures, indluding the period where MRDs got some weird disease that didn't let them fight properly due some tremendous fatigue... ^^
You know...i'm already even liking you, Scape! We have different visions but is nice to see someone willing to defend the class like this! ^^ Maybe when this all is fixed we can start talking about MRD w/o having to say that you need action X or Y from another class to become at least playable! ^^ More like PGL topics are right now...with more strategy and less hatred. ^^ After all FFXIII thought us that Hope is always the ast one to die (and that shiva can transform into a bike! @_@)! -
08-06-2011, 11:15 PMVydarrTyrFirst of all, I'm not saying Marauders should have the lowest delay. I'm saying it should be balanced. Like I said before, for all I know, it could be balanced right now. But I suspect you don't know either. If you've parsed some numbers, feel free to prove me wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scape
Second, the reason I'm concerned is that Marauder has the slowest AA and it has limited TP generating skills. Lancer can use Speed Surge and Invigorate, Pug can use Pummel, and every class attacks faster than Marauder. Marauder has Broad Swing, which only pulls in more TP if you're currently fighting multiple mobs. So if you're fighting a single mob -- like the Ogre -- then it's going to be tough to keep up with the other classes' TP generation.
Third, you keep saying that it's balanced because Marauders hit harder. What makes you say that? This is a sincere question because it looks to me like Lancer weapons generally have higher attack and accuracy than Marauder weapons. Shouldn't that mean that Lancers hit harder? Marauders have a higher critical hit rating. But how often does that proc? I honestly don't know. If Marauders actually do hit harder, how much harder do they hit? 50%? 25% Less?
Keep in mind that before 1.18, all classes did pretty much the same damage. So unless 1.18 increased Marauder's power, or it decreased everyone else's power, I'm not sure that your fundamental proposition is going to hold water.
Regardless, we're getting a re-balance in a couple of days. So if this entire discussion was more that theoretical before, it may very well be moot in a couple of days. And there will be more balancing in the weeks and months to come. I have no problem waiting to see how it comes out. :) -
08-07-2011, 12:11 AMViridianaYou mean the scrawny kid with no HP? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Lienn
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08-07-2011, 03:05 AMLiennThat very same! The one that spam curaga like a freak while not nuking! AT same time he's completely fragile (even more than Vanille, mind you) he does have some tremendous survivability potential! =PQuote:
Originally Posted by Viridiana
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08-09-2011, 01:37 AMRexus
I'll say again, I think MRD is find as it is now. Sure it attacks the slowest, but I don't notice it since single target/weak mobs die so fast anyways. I also don't notice it on Deepvoid Slave/Batraal since I'm constantly cycling thru other abilities.
Honestly, I don't think enough people are giving MRD a chance. However... I will concede about the whole AoE thing. They really did change how MRD plays in that fashion. It still kinda works, for stuff that dies fast... but yes, AoE attacking for MRD is not nearly as effective as it used to be.
For AoE attacking, you kinda have to wait for the right moment to use them. You can't just use it when you see 2 mobs.
For example:
In the skeleton room before Batraal, we pull all the skeletons. One broad swing on them gives me 3k TP. I go Storms Path > Invigorate > Brandish 2 > Heavy Swing > Storms Path > Full Swing > Repeat if mobs not dead yet.
Last bit, I think some people don't realize these are the first of the battle changes. I'm pretty sure it was said somewhere that now AA is in, Haste/Double Attack will make its return. Also, I doubt the damage/hate algorithms will remain the same going forward....there will be tweaks here and there. It's also possible MRD will get a big boost in tanking/DPS when jobs are released.
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU >___>Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridiana
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08-09-2011, 07:32 PMglassalice
First time partying after the patch and dear gods do I get this uproar now. Auto attack is SO slow, and at MRD 25 all I have for non-TP attack is Heavy Swing and Broad Swing. BS is low damage and HS has 60 sec timer!!! I get one good hit with HS and then have to wait for auto-att to give me TP to use anything else!!! Ridiculous and so slow! D: Faster auto-att and faster recasts on basic attacks please!!!
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08-10-2011, 06:49 AMScapeQuote:
Originally Posted by glassalice
All other classes have to wait too. Again.. it's not like other jobs are attacking every second and MRDs are waiting forever. You all exaggerate the wait a little too much. Some of you have actually fooled yourselves into thinking the class isn't even good anymore.
And, as it's been stated numerous times, the initial AA patch was just the groundwork. There are lots of things they need to add and tweak. Give them a break and calm down a little. MRD is not the only class who is having to deal with changes or thing that just don't make much sense. -
08-13-2011, 05:34 AMCoglin
Have you tried to use any other classes to assist? I am not saying that you should have too. But for now its seems like level all the DoW a few levels to use cross class non-tp using abilities would helpl I know little of doW, I have 50 thm and near 40 conj now, but i for arch up to 20, and to be honest, I just used thm nukes most of the time cause it was more benfitial. After reading this thread, it does seem that some other low level class abilities would assist in dealing with this issue until it is tweaked properly.
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09-01-2011, 02:10 AMGalliano
I agree, attack speed could be a bit faster, although I just have all my 0tp cost attacks set on my bar next to each other and use these along with throwing axes and I can keep up a pretty fast attack pace along with specials. If you can afford it throwing axes have a recast of 5 seconds and they build tp really fast.
using these methods I duo alot with a 49 GLD and I manage to steal hate from him now and again. -
09-05-2011, 06:40 PMDGMart
I read some posts about not being to tank as Mrd... Sorry but if you don't know how to tank as Mrd you really fail. Mrd is one of the best tanks. Currently it's better than Gla. I do agree though that their auto attack needs to be cut in half. Either that or more tp per auto attack.
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09-05-2011, 08:24 PMKumaAkumaFor low ranks, Foresight + Fracture is the way to go. If you pick up Featherfoot + Haymaker from Pug it's even better. That's 2 extra attacks for 500tp!Quote:
Originally Posted by glassalice
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10-28-2011, 06:41 PMSylvari
Not reading any of the posts but i wanna see the Auto attack speed increased... to quote a lala i met in game "Mrd swings like an old man with a banana up its arse.." .... Both funny... and bad...
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10-29-2011, 12:02 AMBelialYou're doing it wrong if you need AA bumped up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylvari
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10-29-2011, 12:07 AMNaytWay to revive an old thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylvari
Did you notice MRD performance lately? I do hope you have another character apart from what your current profile states, 'cause otherwise you don't really know what you're asking -
10-29-2011, 12:28 AMBelialNecro'd for trolling purposes I assumed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nayt
Considering the last post date.
Also, anyone who doesn't think MRD is a beastly machine these days is wrong. AoE King. -
10-29-2011, 08:03 AMSylvari
Eh, it was either add to this or start a new one...
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10-31-2011, 12:42 AMVydarrTyrAnd thank goodness AoE is finally beneficial instead of harmful, since they changed the claim system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial
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10-31-2011, 01:25 AMBelialI know, MRD was the class I picked first when starting at launch, and because of how bad the setup was for it I left it alone til now. They've fixed it, and it's fun like I imagined it would be.Quote:
Originally Posted by VydarrTyr
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11-01-2011, 10:38 AMShorty
Well, I wouldn't mind if they increased AA speed a bit though. At the moment, TP generation is godly in multi-mob situations, but on single targets can be quite a bit slower than other classes imo. LNC and PUG not only attacks faster but also have a TP boosting attack (yeah I know archers are quite down atm).
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11-01-2011, 10:46 AMRentahamsterThat's how it should be for class balance. Some classes have to have some things they can do better than others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty
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11-01-2011, 12:29 PMCoglinQuote:
Originally Posted by Shorty
Rentahamster is absolutely right. You can either be a beast with multiple mobs, or against single mobs. Your asking for a bit much otherwise..........You can already AoE near as well as a mage, but you want the single target advanages of a lancer as well.......all wrapped up in a tank.......no need to get that greedy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rentahamster
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11-01-2011, 09:21 PMSylvari
I don't think im being greedy to ask for just a little more speed in my AA.... its so slow it kinda ruins the "Fast Pace" combat... takes forever to get started unless i have 3+ mobs beating on me...
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11-01-2011, 11:17 PMBelialThat's funny, as a 31 MRD which is only several levels above your current, I was able to keep active during combat with no problems. Get a group and head out and do hippos, throw some cross-class skills on your bar (Leg Sweep, Invigorate, Ferocity, Raging Strike, etc, etc, etc.) and you can keep busy the entire time. By the time you're 40 if you're not keeping busy on MRD you're doing something wrong with your skill rotation. But try putting some other abilities up, get some cross-class stuff and make yourself keep busy, whether it's buffs, heals, AoE damage, whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylvari