I think it is time to admit the obvious - Echo is an insult to the average gamer.

I have done 30 runs of King Moggle.

Chance of succeeding the first time - 1%
Chance of succeeding the second time - 10%
Chance of succeeding the third time time - 15%
Chance of succeeding the forth time time - 34%
Chance of succeeding the fifth time - 40%

lol

God you are so annoying, stop pretending that it is a great accomplishment to memorize some stupid patterns and move your fingers fast enough to execute. It's a dumb game and 6 month old content should be made even easier than it is now.

If you are so great at the game why do you care about content you will never do again being made easier? Just stfu.

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Originally Posted by Authority

I have done 30 runs of King Moggle.

Chance of succeeding the first time - 1%
Chance of succeeding the second time - 10%
Chance of succeeding the third time time - 15%
Chance of succeeding the forth time time - 34%
Chance of succeeding the fifth time - 40%

lol

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this can't be real. My moggle HM runs are a 70% one-shot, 25% two-shot... the 5% remaining is when I solo tank, I need 20% echo for that, else I can't tank the 3 of them

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Originally Posted by Hidan13

God you are so annoying, stop pretending that it is a great accomplishment to memorize some stupid patterns and move your fingers fast enough to execute. It's a dumb game and 6 month old content should be made even easier than it is now.

If you are so great at the game why do you care about content you will never do again being made easier? Just stfu.

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Ok, if it's so easy.... why need the echo buff then? If anything it makes it more pathetic.

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Originally Posted by Hidan13

Just stfu.

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Just stick to your main argument, don't make hostile remarks. That is pretty borderline if not over. You posted to get your argument across, it would be counter productive, if it was removed cause you made some pretty hostile remark~

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Originally Posted by KenzieLynch

You do know that you can remove the echo buff, right? :/

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How is this done? I'd actually like to try this out on Garuda Ex as a skill check for myself. I.E when everyone else has buff and i don't but i'm still doing well, i know i'm playing at a good level.

Also, as for removing it as a whole.. heck no. I know for a fact that many parties are purely incapable of completing the content without it. 30 + Garuda Ex runs in a few days (with only 2 kills) taught me this much.

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Originally Posted by Hidan13

Snip

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So if it is "a dumb game with dumb bosses with old dumb content" why is there a high percentage of fail ratio? I wonder why. And actually this is the first MMO that I see many random people having issues with old content so something is definitely not right.

Don't get upset.

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Originally Posted by Hidan13

God you are so annoying, stop pretending that it is a great accomplishment to memorize some stupid patterns and move your fingers fast enough to execute. It's a dumb game and 6 month old content should be made even easier than it is now.

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Eh, I just try to ignore people like that. It's really so amazingly amusing to me when people think beating some part of a video game somehow makes them better a better person than anyone else.

As far as I have noticed by the way, the more awesome they claim to be, the more they aren't. I have beat many more Titan HMs with newbies with Echo on than I have with huffypuffy "amazing" players who ditch the battle the first time someone makes a slight mistake, or even experience *gasp* lag. It's more fun that way too, less stress and negativity.

Basically just keep in mind that people usually brag to try to distract others from noticing their own flaws. Kind of like real life bullies. ^_^

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Originally Posted by Divine_Intervention

How is this done?

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Just click the echo buff icon beside your name and it'll disappear.

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Originally Posted by Synestra

Well is there a Dark Souls MMO? havent seen one yet ;_;

But personally i really dont care about Echo much, but only downside with it is that it breeds "not so good players" as they really dont need to push their character/class/personal gaming skills to maximum performance. I would love to see every player casual or not wanting to become best FFXIV player instead taking easier route :(

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No i do agree somewhat i mean i myself don't need this buff and i do think they have made some stuff way to easy :P

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

this can't be real. My moggle HM runs are a 70% one-shot, 25% two-shot... the 5% remaining is when I solo tank, I need 20% echo for that, else I can't tank the 3 of them

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or maybe he is JUST that bad.i never seen a good king mog that exceeded 2 wipes. it so freaking easy now. perhaps back in 2.1 in it original difficulty, but the OP wasnt at endgame at that time.

also OP just because you "quit" the game back in feb, STILL DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE NEW. to be "new", you have to be join this or the previous month.

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Originally Posted by KenzieLynch

Just click the echo buff icon beside your name and it'll disappear.

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Thank you. I'm gonna give this a go (with a party of friends lol!) Can't beat some self testing. Although I might be a little disappointed if I find i suck lmao !

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

It is, get good and learn to finish the older content.

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What's the point of gating new content behind old content? Just so the elite can wave their epeen even more? Why do you care so much about other people clearing something you probably never do nowadays? If you want a Dark Souls type of game go play Dark Souls.

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Originally Posted by Mogi

No i do agree somewhat i mean i myself don't need this buff and i do think they have made some stuff way to easy :P

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I love the quote in your signature, and loved the full post even more.

/thumbsup

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Originally Posted by Synestra

Well is there a Dark Souls MMO? havent seen one yet ;_;

But personally i really dont care about Echo much, but only downside with it is that it breeds "not so good players" as they really dont need to push their character/class/personal gaming skills to maximum performance. I would love to see every player casual or not wanting to become best FFXIV player instead taking easier route :(

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So then a question comes to mind. If players who aren't as good as the top tier player base (whatever % that might be) want to work through six month old content, then they need to be pushing themselves to top tier performance? Because if that's the case we will end up burning out the casual section of our player base, the majority who pay for additional content for others.

I would like to add that everyone of us can reach skill and performance level like BG members have if wanted, for some it might take longer but with time you will get there aslong as you have patience, commonsense, lots of practice and most of all motivation to push yourself to the limits of your skills. This game is not hard at all if you are even remotely trying, its just that too many players seems to giveup after few failures or just dont care to improve and that makes me kinda sad ;_;

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Originally Posted by Synestra

I would like to add that everyone of us can reach skill and performance level like BG members have if wanted, for some it might take longer but with time you will get there aslong as you have patience, commonsense, lots of practice and most of all motivation to push yourself to the limits of your skills. This game is not hard at all if you are even remotely trying, its just that too many players seems to giveup after few failures or just dont care to improve and that makes me kinda sad ;_;

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Originally Posted by Nel_Celestine

If players who aren't as good as the top tier player

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Everyone can be so called top tier if they really want, but you really dont even need to be one if you are not interested in worldfirst race. For some wierd reason is still have some faith in peoples o.O

I'm okay with the Buff. It helps with one single Flaw this game holds, that as a single person in a group of 4-8, you can do everything right, but it only takes one to mess it all up. If that One person needs help, to allow the rest of us to carry on, So be it, and let's move on.
Eventually, said persons wouldn't even need the buff themselves. Who here still needs training wheels to ride a bike? (If you do I am retract my statement.)

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Originally Posted by Synestra

Everyone can be so called top tier if they really want, but you really dont even need to be one if you are not interested in worldfirst race. For some wierd reason is still have some faith in peoples o.O

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Materia breaks.
RNG loot.
Unreliable players.
Gilseller /tells.

If I really wanted to, REALLY tried at it. I too can enjoy being a curmudgeon who stays up till 12:00am(oh I'm sorry, 9pm PST) yelling at people on the teamspeak or jamming inane comments in fights that don't make a lick of sense.

What a wonderful thing to look forward to.

Whenever I enter an instance that has Echo going on, I remove mine.

As has been pointed out, if you don't want echo click the buff to dismiss it and stop trying to force your own play style on strangers

The ECHO is important for PUG groups. I still play with groups who cant clear AK on roulette. I don't think this game is overly friendly to new MMO players and the ECHO helps compensate for them.

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Originally Posted by Dude

The ECHO is important for PUG groups. I still play with groups who cant clear AK on roulette. I don't think this game is overly friendly to new MMO players and the ECHO helps compensate for them.

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Wait, there is Echo in AK?
Dude, I don't think so.

But yes, it IS a blessing for PUGs. And .... some groups still manage to fail t2 with 15% Echo *cringing commences*

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Originally Posted by Alukah

What's the point of gating new content behind old content? Just so the elite can wave their epeen even more? Why do you care so much about other people clearing something you probably never do nowadays? If you want a Dark Souls type of game go play Dark Souls.

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What's the point of doing new content when you can't even finish the old one? So the noobs can ruin the fun for those who legitimately finished it with their low skill? Why do you care so much about new content when you can't even finish the old one overgeared? If you can't beat Garuda and Twintania in iLevel100 you think you'll have a shoot at T6 and Levi? If you want WoW, go play WoW.

I don't see Echo as an insult. I see it as a crutch. I've been in random groups for fights that aren't even hard and literally get twitchy eyes when I see "Oh! Guys! Let's die a lot so we get the Echo!" or "Don't worry about dying guys, you don't need to learn the fight, if we die a bunch it helps us cuz we can get the Echo."

I understand the advantages of Echo. When you don't have time to make a lot of friends and can only depend on the DF for fights, you risk getting people who do not know the fight, who are under geared for the fight, etc, and the Echo allows you to move on with the content you otherwise would have been stuck at because of bad luck with other people.

BUT

When people literally DEPEND on it, it gets annoying as heck. Specially when you get threatened to get kicked for not agreeing to wait for the Echo and just try to pass it without it...

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

What's the point of doing new content when you can't even finish the old one? So the noobs can ruin the fun for those who legitimately finished it with their low skill? Why do you care so much about new content when you can't even finish the old one overgeared? If you can't beat Garuda and Twintania in iLevel100 you think you'll have a shoot at T6 and Levi? If you want WoW, go play WoW.

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This attitude is what makes players leave the game. You really don't want this. Players are not a doormat for this sort of behavior. At some point they really will take up the retort. Maybe not for WoW, but EQN, or other games not in the genre.

Because you pride yourself on hitting buttons.

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

What's the point of doing new content when you can't even finish the old one? So the noobs can ruin the fun for those who legitimately finished it with their low skill? Why do you care so much about new content when you can't even finish the old one overgeared? If you can't beat Garuda and Twintania in iLevel100 you think you'll have a shoot at T6 and Levi? If you want WoW, go play WoW.

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I am still struggling with Twintania. I'm not saying I need more echo or anything (I think we are close to beating it - we got closer last night than ever before), but I don't think it should be taken away, either. Content like 1st Coil is old content now, dropping old gear. But I really want to beat it so I can get more of the story. Then I want to start doing 2nd Coil because the story will continue. That's why, even with my low skill level, I want to get past this content. For the story. Everyone who's good is already working on 2nd Coil. That's good for them. By the time I'm getting stuff from 2nd Coil, the next level will probably be out (I expect it will take some time for my group to pass T6, based on how long T5 has taken us) and the good, elite players will already be beyond 2nd Coil gear.

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Originally Posted by RickXRolled

I agree. Whenever I join titan hm to pass the time and people fail, they see this buff and think hurrah! leet buffs! Then when they finally win with 30-50% echo they are like:" We did it guys!". (While still dead on the floor mind you.)

I thought I was the only one that actually saw the echo notification as an insult telling you you suck and need the game to help you.

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Are you going to help them? Because from what I have seen people say are "why should I take my time out to help someone else" Why even complain about the buff when you already did the fight.

When people have probably been struggling for months, you think they shouldn't enjoy the full content or be stuck in one place forever?

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Originally Posted by Charisma

Ive seen alot of players like you, when the echoe buff went live..
All of them were the players, that failed the most in the group.

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Good thing I spam the fight because it's fun and therefore know exactly what to do? Only time we wiped at all on that fight was because the SMN didn't control their pet (was attacking the King, which got him to use Memento Moogle way too soon).

Also, I highly doubt my ilvl90 BLM/SCH is holding anyone back whenever I remove the Echo.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Also, I highly doubt my ilvl90 BLM/SCH is holding anyone back whenever I remove the Echo.

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wether or not you do, using your ilevel as an argument is showing that you don't know what it is. a i100 can be more of an hindrance than a i80 sometimes

don't take me wrong, was just saying that. No more, no less.

Personnal skill isn't related to ilevel (except if you are above i100, maybe)

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Originally Posted by HeroSamson

Are you going to help them? Because from what I have seen people say are "why should I take my time out to help someone else" Why even complain about the buff when you already did the fight.

When people have probably been struggling for months, you think they shouldn't enjoy the full content or be stuck in one place forever?

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I do titan 3-8 times a day to pass the time. 95% of the time I complete them, whether it' s with or without echo depends on the rest. The amount of people I' ve carried as the only living dps or the only healer is ridiculously high.
If I see someone actually trying and improving I will keep going for their sake. if I see people die in I90+ and not improve I will still try to finish the fight but I won' t really care if we win or not.

I' ve been doing this since November, back then I did it by joining shout/pf once it was introduced. Now I just quee for it in the DF.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

wether or not you do, using your ilevel as an argument is showing that you don't know what it is. a i100 can be more of an hindrance than a i80 sometimes

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But I already stated I know the fight (I even mark the Moogles). Heck, I've been forced to solo heal Thornmarch as SCH because a WHM left for whatever reason (and I've seen a tank solo tank at 10% Echo buff. That time I didn't remove it because it would actually make things a little trickier for said tank, who was new to the fight as well).

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Originally Posted by Kallera

This attitude is what makes players leave the game. You really don't want this. Players are not a doormat for this sort of behavior. At some point they really will take up the retort. Maybe not for WoW, but EQN, or other games not in the genre.

Because you pride yourself on hitting buttons.

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I agree. A group of players with the "holier than thou" attitude who refuse to be nice or helpful and in general just complain about every single thing they can imagine will see more and more people left behind, and even leaving, until one day they will realize they are the only ones left, and that they can't do squat alone anymore.

Besides why is everyone who hasn't beat content a "n00b?" I wasn't a n00b because I didn't beat Titan EX. I just didn't find 7 other people that could do it with me.

"Go to practice parties then!" you will say. Well I did. Problem is if EVERYONE is new in a training party, it rarely made any progress, basically leading to people practicing the exact same part of the fight every time. If you got a tad more experienced player to help, progress actually happened. But then they tend to leave fast, because you know, n00bs.

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Originally Posted by Aushi

I don't see Echo as an insult. I see it as a crutch. I've been in random groups for fights that aren't even hard and literally get twitchy eyes when I see "Oh! Guys! Let's die a lot so we get the Echo!" or "Don't worry about dying guys, you don't need to learn the fight, if we die a bunch it helps us cuz we can get the Echo."

I understand the advantages of Echo. When you don't have time to make a lot of friends and can only depend on the DF for fights, you risk getting people who do not know the fight, who are under geared for the fight, etc, and the Echo allows you to move on with the content you otherwise would have been stuck at because of bad luck with other people.

BUT

When people literally DEPEND on it, it gets annoying as heck. Specially when you get threatened to get kicked for not agreeing to wait for the Echo and just try to pass it without it...

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That happens? Because it has never happened to me. It's just been an "Oh well, we died, but at least we got some Echo now". Not "Guys, please die on purpose so we get Echo." :)

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Originally Posted by Authority

[*]You still have to be challenged

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End Thread.

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Originally Posted by Kat_Manx

Besides why is everyone who hasn't beat content a "n00b?" I wasn't a n00b because I didn't beat Titan EX. I just didn't find 7 other people that could do it with me.

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People don't call you a "n00b" for not completing content. They call you one if you're incapable or outright refuse to learn and improve yourself. The overly easy pre-50 content (and most lvl 50 content) and overemphasis on solo fast leveling is why there's so many "n00bs" at endgame.