Is there going to be open world content ever? Have I missed news or anything related?

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

Some people just want to split hairs of there individual definition of open world content (despite the fact that open-world content seems pretty self defining), some people want to complain or defend the existing content, some people want to keep touting FFXI's EXPANSION content as some sort of golden lamb, and some people just want to watch the world burn.

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Well, the reason folks are looking for a definition is because the claim was made that FFXIV needs open world content, when it obviously HAS open world content. Folks have provided all kinds of examples, FATEs, Treasure Maps, Beast Tribe quests, and yet somehow these don't qualify. So, folks put forth their opinions on what REAL open world content is, and we get six different answers from five different people.

One person provided FFXI's "Sky" areas as a perfect example, and just off-hand I can think of ways that's both awesome and horrendous, with hours camping Zipacna or Ullikummi standing out in my mind for the latter. So, what part of Sky is the perfect open world content? All of it? I must respectfully disagree, and I'm actually in the camp of folks that agree open world needs more meaty content.

Yep back when they stated you were supposed to find the primal instances rather than going to a stationary spot? Yeah.

Here's the article where it discussed capturing primals in the wild, an interesting read
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/g...-Prime-13.html

Please stop bickering about semantics. I would hate to see this open world thread closed also.

I genuinely want to know what the official response to the OP is.

Surely we're all happy with more variety and options on what to do in the game .
Just let's respect each other a tiny bit more ok?

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Well, the reason folks are looking for a definition is because the claim was made that FFXIV needs open world content, when it obviously HAS open world content. Folks have provided all kinds of examples, FATEs, Treasure Maps, Beast Tribe quests, and yet somehow these don't qualify. So, folks put forth their opinions on what REAL open world content is, and we get six different answers from five different people.

One person provided FFXI's "Sky" areas as a perfect example, and just off-hand I can think of ways that's both awesome and horrendous, with hours camping Zipacna or Ullikummi standing out in my mind for the latter. So, what part of Sky is the perfect open world content? All of it? I must respectfully disagree, and I'm actually in the camp of folks that agree open world needs more meaty content.

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I think that's the one true lesson we can really take from this. Despite the fact the game does have content that is most definitely in the open world each user has a completely different definition of what GOOD open world content is and that's where all this disagreement comes from. Also, I'm with you and I completely agree that Sky would be terrible.

What I wish is If a user don't like the type of content supplied users should suggest new types of content, but I don't see that here. Even the thread starts as a demand for answers because the OP simply doesn't like the content given. Then the magic work "sky" comes into play as somehow the ideal solution. That isn't a suggestion guys. They are well aware of their old content and clearly they don't want that type of play style. We need to supply suggestions that appear to fit within the framework provided. Not to fundamentally change the direction of the game.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Well, the reason folks are looking for a definition is because the claim was made that FFXIV needs open world content, when it obviously HAS open world content. Folks have provided all kinds of examples, FATEs, Treasure Maps, Beast Tribe quests, and yet somehow these don't qualify. So, folks put forth their opinions on what REAL open world content is, and we get six different answers from five different people.

One person provided FFXI's "Sky" areas as a perfect example, and just off-hand I can think of ways that's both awesome and horrendous, with hours camping Zipacna or Ullikummi standing out in my mind for the latter. So, what part of Sky is the perfect open world content? All of it? I must respectfully disagree, and I'm actually in the camp of folks that agree open world needs more meaty content.

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You hit the nail on the head - and especially with those claiming Sky in FFXI as an example of 'ideal open-world content', ironically it isn't even truly open world anyway, and that to say otherwise is complete rubbish and comes across as simply rose-tinted nostalgia.

The player couldn't even access it until they had gone through 90% of the Rise of the Zilart storyline, the RotZ story for that matter requiring the player's starting nation's storyline to be completed up to Rank 6 to even begin those missions! Really, Sky is not open world, but gated content - with the only difference to what we currently have in ARR is that it's not instanced.

Sky was an example not a demand or even a final product. All content when released starts out gated, I don't even know what you mean by it not being open world because its "gated". Even most of the instances in this game are "gated" until doing certain quests and story log. Sky was marginally improved, a lot of people wouldn't know that though. Almost all the NM's there are forced pop from farm items. Only a few have 2-4 hour respawns.

As stated, sky was an example. It IS open world content for the exact reason that it is NOT instanced. You can run into random players already doing stuff there. You can drag a 20+ player FC into there and do stuff. Nowhere did anyone even claim sky was the Ideal open world. I asked if anything of the equivalent of sky (ffxi's first large scale openworld content) being released for ffxiv.

We all know what openworld content is. Treasure hunting, fates, and all that jazz are indeed openworld, however, we wouldn't be asking for more and better openworld content if we were happy with just that. I like the spice of BGH, Danger, Exploration, and large scale FC activity. This is the kind of openworld content I like, Sky had all of those, it was my example. It has things that worked well and things that didn't. Don't take an example as an end product.

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

Almost all the NM's there are forced pop from farm items.

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And you still needed to bot to stand a chance at claiming the normal mobs in those areas.

All that did was instead of running a claim bot for 30 mins every 4-6 hours, people needed to run them 24/7 to claim trash mobs.

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

You're blowing it out of proportion. It was never that bad, don't even try to exasperate it that much. There are numerous zones that spawn the same type of mob to farm. More often than not the players were even nice enough to leave and go to a different zone if there wasn't enough mobs for both groups.

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You must not have been on Bahamut. It was indeed that bad.

As you said, though. That's off topic.

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

and large scale FC activity.

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Herein lies the issue. If the devs can find a way to balance server stability and large-scale amounts of people with their positional information being processed server-side in a large area, then I'm all for it. If they can't, oh well, I'd rather have stable instance and world servers than nothing.

If it was simply for FC large scale activities I'd want a completely different suite of tools. I'd love to be able to goto a zone and using custom npc's or area markers so that I could make FC events. We've been trying to come up with some good ones within the game as it stands, but so far we are limited.

For instance we did chocobo racing, but we required a few people to serve as "npc's" at certain checkpoints to ensure all players were passing through the correct points. This meant some people couldn't join in on the fun. Instead I'd love if I could have a race type event with 3-4 zones that I can place and users must pass through them in order. That way we can all play. I'd love tools that we can use to create events with our FC and LS's that could be used to create memorable events.

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Originally Posted by Djeserit

And you still needed to bot to stand a chance at claiming the normal mobs in those areas.

All that did was instead of running a claim bot for 30 mins every 4-6 hours, people needed to run them 24/7 to claim trash mobs.

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You're blowing it out of proportion. It was never that bad, don't even try to exasperate it that much. There are numerous zones that spawn the same type of mob to farm. More often than not the players were even nice enough to leave and go to a different zone if there wasn't enough mobs for both groups.

This thread isn't even about sky, I never intended it to be. It was an example that could be used to build off of. So you didn't like the respawn rates, maybe that was a flaw. That's easily adjustable and fixable.

This is just sad. If you people aren't happy that your fc's can't have fun together because of lack of open world content, then I'm sorry, but you need to find a better fc. I have loads of fun with mine. Also,why are you all threatening to leave this 6 m.o game becaue of lack of content? Give it time. And its not like s.e exactly cares if one person wants to quit. QQ moar, might get more attention.

It wasn't a threat to quit. It's feedback as to why I am, possibly even others in the time to come. I've already done it before. You can't post here unless you're still subscripted, unless they changed that since last time so I went ahead and posted before it happens this time. So you have fun in your FC. All the ones I've been through have had players dropping like flies and even the one I'm in now has a house with a leader that hardly ever logs on and no activity in it even though it started off really well. A lot of FC's are on the fence about recruiting new members too cause of the whole 8 player thing. Managing people within the FC and making sure everyone is happy is hard when your limited to 8 ppl per instance. Everyone's experience is different. Perhaps I could have found a better FC, perhaps I could have put more effort into finding some fun people to hang with, perhaps I just need to find a different game.

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

It wasn't a threat to quit. It's feedback as to why I am, possibly even others in the time to come. I've already done it before. You can't post here unless you're still subscripted, unless they changed that since last time so I went ahead and posted before it happens this time. So you have fun in your FC. All the ones I've been through have had players dropping like flies and even the one I'm in now has a house with a leader that hardly ever logs on and no activity in it even though it started off really well. A lot of FC's are on the fence about recruiting new members too cause of the whole 8 player thing. Managing people within the FC and making sure everyone is happy is hard when your limited to 8 ppl per instance. Everyone's experience is different. Perhaps I could have found a better FC, perhaps I could have put more effort into finding some fun people to hang with, perhaps I just need to find a different game.

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I don't understand why you have to manage people so much. Why can't everyone just do what they want to do and everyone else in the guild helps when they can? In our FC our static groups are not the domain of the FC. Sure we pulled our static members from the FC, but those players chose deliberately to do this as a team of 8 and they are now on their own. It isn't our place to tell static leaders how they handle their team, their loot, and their strategies. As it stands the only content with lockouts is the new coil so for most content this isn't even a big deal. All other content we just make a team of 8 on the fly from the people who want to join in to help. We spend time getting people past Titan Ex so they aren't road blocked, we spend time helping others get their relics on their side jobs in the hard modes, and more. Why this belief that 8 man instances are limiting? If you have enough people around you can easily have several teams of 8 running content just because they felt like it. This weekend in our FC is a great example. We had enough people interested in Levi Ex that we had two full groups running and a few other people started a third group and filled it up in the PF. 8 people isn't limiting. It's your leaders and their lack of cultivating a good community that is lacking. 8 man instances is a poor excuse. Game for each other as opposed to for the content and you build stronger communities.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

guess you don't watch the live letters yoshi p has been saying he is adding more and more open world content as we go.

already have dailies, treasure hunts, and now the zodiac weapon quest.

:) and we will get more as it goes.

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And you call this "open world" content?

As we kindly wait on the promised wandering Primals for FC's to summon and cause weather changing effects.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

I never had the chance to know Sky/sea, but I'd definitively love more open world Content. I have no issue with FATEs, but only them.... it's pretty poor content wise

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Sky was a zone populated with RMT and bots. If you were a legit player, you could spend WEEKS trying to get items to spawn bosses. Sea was different, but it was still just zones that were maximum rewards for people who cheated. As of right now FFXIV has no content that makes players feel like they need to cheat to play the game, and I hope they keep it that way.

I think people's nostalgia of the area is clouding what it was actually like.

MMOs are suppose to feel sort of like FF12's open world but now they feel like FF13. FF12 is sort of like what FF11 would be like if it was offline while FFXIV = FF13.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

It's your leaders and their lack of cultivating a good community that is lacking.

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Your neglecting the one big issue that 8 man dungeons have for most people.

The lockouts on the top tier content encourage 8 man statics, forcing you to leave other members behind because they can't get a full group, or don't have experienced players to run with.

This isn't my issue with instanced 4-8 man dungeons it's the utter shame that these dungeons are just that, a instanced zone that people blitz through. Amdapoor township looks amazing it's a crime that it wasn't accessable outside of duty finder.

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Originally Posted by Arkghyom

And you call this "open world" content?

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It is content in the open-world, isn't it?
Maybe it is bad open world content or boring open world content for you, but it is still open world content.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

instanced zone that people blitz through. Amdapor township looks amazing it's a crime that it wasn't accessible outside of duty finder.

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100% the problem right here.
I've played every dungeon up to level 50 yet i don't feel like i've ever been inside the zones before.

Does anybody still think these open world primals will happen?

If so do you think it'll be anything more than just another fate to zerg on?

I think we can all agree there IS open world content, but I think what the OP as well as others who ask for it want; is open world content with depth. If there was open world content on par with the Coils when they're first released, I think a lot of people would be very happy.

Personally I've got my fingers crossed for a big switch in game-play come the first expansion, or at the very least some new open world tough areas with hard content that takes time to complete. I'm starting to get a little burnt out on instances atm, but the majority of the good content is locked behind them so there's no way to avoid it.

Yesterday 22 ppl online for the FC event .. 6 were left behind... Is that your idea of a community build SE?

To be blunt they will never be able to add open world content with depth unless they overhaul how the treat the overworld in general.

-It's far too easy to get around
-Enemies are very bland and even at max level pose a laughable threat to even the most poorly geared players
-Unique things in the world don't happen outside of blue circles.
-Nothing special about monsters in the open world, no nifty AI, no tricks, no danger.

I'm gambling on the expansion taking a bit of a paradigm shift to how they look at the open world, they have a amazing world we should be exploring more often than running to and from the next FATE for our Atma farm.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

-Enemies are very bland and even at max level pose a laughable threat to even the most poorly geared players

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Because you fight against monsters below your level, unless you fight against water sprits in south shroud. Then you fight against enemies at your level.
All what it need to make some dangerous areas for level 50 classes are enemies over level 50 and with ranged attacks (so you can't just ride through them).

Of course not along the main routes. The main routes should be easy to travel like it was during 1.0. The danger should come if you left the main routes.
And the spriggan cave in central shroud should be bigger.

Maybe dangerous zones come with the next expansion packs, if we get less civilized areas.

There has been the same question in some form ever since alpha.

What worries me is that to end speculation; all they would have needed to do is to confirm that it's in developement at the monent.

Yet here we are again with another 11 pages and nothing but silence.
I truly want to keep playing but this seems like they're just being quiet because they're afraid we'd leave if we knew the truth.

I mean if you could even HINT good news in a thread like one of these what possible reason could they ever have NOT to say it?
That's what worries me.

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Originally Posted by Skinwalker

Yesterday 22 ppl online for the FC event .. 6 were left behind... Is that your idea of a community build SE?

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You can't grab 2 people from somewhere, rather than leaving 6 people behind?

I mean, it does suck that everything is designed for multiples of 8 people, but every MMO has this problem, just with a different number: 5, 6, 10, 20, and so on, but it seems to me that it'd be better in most cases to do everything you can to avoid leaving people behind, including bringing along someone random.

If by open world content you just mean open world raid bosses then no, keep that crap in FFXI. There is no reason to ever implement that in FFXIV when we already have the FATE system. We have Odin and Behemoth. They can add more that reward better.

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Originally Posted by Skinwalker

Yesterday 22 ppl online for the FC event .. 6 were left behind... Is that your idea of a community build SE?

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Perhaps my math is wrong but last I checked three groups of 8 is 24 people. Also every game had this kind of limit on party size. It's your fault for failing to fill the gaps to get them involved. At some point is on you and your guild to make it work. Square can not build a community for you. That's your job. Stop leaving people in the cold and then acting like it's not your fault.

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Originally Posted by Bufkus

If by open world content you just mean open world raid bosses then no, keep that crap in FFXI. There is no reason to ever implement that in FFXIV when we already have the FATE system. We have Odin and Behemoth. They can add more that reward better.

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What's exactly wrong with open world raid bosses?

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Originally Posted by Magis

What's exactly wrong with open world raid bosses?

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If they have sellable drops, they promote RMT. If they have binding drops, they promote claim botting. If their drops aren't any good, open world content people won't count them as open world content.

The only viable solution is basically what Odin and Behemoth already are, fates with drops that are traded for items. But again, FATEs apparently don't count as open world content.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

That's the issue, those against everything only think of the negative, or don't even know what changes have been done - For example, someone bring up sky, people who play this game haven't obviously touched FFXI since 2003 and say: "But bot claiming! but NM camping!" when not only do you pop them yourself, but it's pointless to bot claim when regular monsters in the area drops the item to pop said NM.

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I played on Bahamut for years after the pop item changes to sky. The bot claimers just started botting the normal mobs instead, and selling any extra drops.

Again, promotes botting/RMT.

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Originally Posted by Doo

FFXIVs RMT population is huge. Basically it's just players being lazy, laziness promotes RMT.

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Exactly. That's why you don't make anything sellable BiS. People will just buy gil and buy their BiS instead of working for it themselves.

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Originally Posted by Magis

What's exactly wrong with open world raid bosses?

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He is referring to FFXI's system where you claimed a mob upon it popping and the fight and drops are only exclusive to your party. This led to people making illegal third party tools to greatly increase their chances on getting the open world raid boss. When a party got a claim, other parties would try to exploit the system to make it harder on the party who has the claim.

When someone said Lost City of Amdapor would be much better as a open world zone. Really? You have a good portion of players entering that one area, killing everything and making it hard for others to enjoy the content? When it is instanced and 4-man, it is much easier to appreciate the area and detail of design around me. Its like if I was a kid and want to go play in a play place and I am not having fun because there are too many other kids crammed up in it trying to have fun also.

I honestly don't believe that people think of the negative aspects of certain open world content. Like I said, I am all for open world content. However, it has to make sense in the design of the game itself. Just saying it can work because "FFXI did it" isn't good enough. FFXI and FFXIV in concept, design, server structure, and population size are completely different games and what works in one may not work in the other. I am a broken record with this statement at this point.

That's the issue, those against everything only think of the negative, or don't even know what changes have been done - For example, someone bring up sky, people who play this game haven't obviously touched FFXI since 2003 and say: "But bot claiming! but NM camping!" when not only do you pop them yourself, but it's pointless to bot claim when regular monsters in the area drops the item to pop said NM.

Also, saying it could work because "XI did it" is SE's motto, actually - XIV ARR is designed like WoW and mimics WoW generally because "WoW did it" and Yoshi openly admits this in every recent interview...so what would be the difference? XI actually has some unique systems that not even WoW introduced until later.

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Originally Posted by Djeserit

If they have sellable drops, they promote RMT.

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FFXIVs RMT population is huge. Basically it's just players being lazy, laziness promotes RMT.

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Originally Posted by Djeserit

Exactly. That's why you don't make anything sellable BiS. People will just guy gil and buy their BiS instead of working for it themselves.

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Now they just buy gil to pay for runs to get BIS. No different.


So trying to stop RMT isn't possible no matter what system you have in place. FFXIV is already proving it.

Instead of players botting open world content, they're simply botting instance content. Just the latter doesn't effect anyone else. The main issue with open world bosses it scares players because they think they might not be able to get the loot. Just look at ilvl110 gear being new coil only.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

When someone said Lost City of Amdapor would be much better as a open world zone. Really? You have a good portion of players entering that one area, killing everything and making it hard for others to enjoy the content? When it is instanced and 4-man, it is much easier to appreciate the area and detail of design around me.
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FFXI and FFXIV in concept, design, server structure, and population size are completely different games and what works in one may not work in the other.

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LCoA is only possible currently as an instance. The world server cannot currently handle something like that. This is an important distinction.

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Originally Posted by Djeserit

I played on Bahamut for years after the pop item changes to sky. The bot claimers just started botting the normal mobs instead, and selling any extra drops.

Again, promotes botting/RMT.

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Bahamut must have been one of the pithole servers then lol - Never seen anyone bot claim normal mobs and I did sky for quite awhile while cycling in Einherjar and Sea. XIV has an incredibly large RMT scene, larger than XI ever had actually, XI's RMT problem lasted only two years before SE stomped them out to the point you'd only really get "BRO!" tells, but in ARR you can see them (and regular players) botting everything from mobs, gathering nodes to FATEs and GC provisioning turn ins. It doesn't promote Botting/RMT more than ARR does now.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

That's the issue, those against everything only think of the negative, or don't even know what changes have been done - For example, someone bring up sky, people who play this game haven't obviously touched FFXI since 2003 and say: "But bot claiming! but NM camping!" when not only do you pop them yourself, but it's pointless to bot claim when regular monsters in the area drops the item to pop said NM.

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Then you go to the next set of problems which is congestion. I have a hard time believing that groups won't conflict with each other in trying to get their content done in some way. FFXIV's player base is much bigger than FFXI's was (not saying FFXI had low numbers for it's time) and reaching to lv.50 and it's content is much more accessible than FFXI's where it was extremely gated by the fact you had to be lv.75 to be efficient in the content. So it worked out that mostly hardcore LS's traversed in Sky and Sea. FFXIV's ideals are about accessibility. So with a Sky/Sea like area, expect tons of different FC's going in, congesting the place, trying to get their content done.

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Also, saying it could work because "XI did it" is SE's motto, actually - XIV ARR is designed like WoW and mimics WoW generally because "WoW did it" and Yoshi openly admits this in every recent interview...so what would be the difference? XI actually has some unique systems that not even WoW introduced until later.

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Because if your aim is to make a game that is accessible and more balanced for a casual/hardcore type of game play, WoW would be the preferred blue prints over FFXI. FFXI was for the most part, a very hardcore centered game.

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Originally Posted by Doo

FFXIVs RMT population is huge. Basically it's just players being lazy, laziness promotes RMT.

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Worst I seen from RMT is annoying /tell spamming and I may once in a while see an army of them running together doing content that isn't conflicting with others. I definitely don't see that as bad as FFXI, where they went to open world HNM's, Sky, and any content that had items worth selling. They botted, destroyed the AH's with over-inflated prices, and there were people who quit simply because RMT destroyed the fun for them.

So in comparison, FFXIV's RMT is pretty tamed. FFXIV team built content that RMT wouldn't become a major issue. So far it seems to be working fine for the most part.

These XI accusations are completely based on nothing. In my 6 YEARS in XI I saw plenty of fishing bots and crafting rmt but never a group of NM bots. In SIX YEARS I didn't see them on Asura. How can you possibly claim that it was a game breaking problem to any degree?

Also XIV arr has Unique & Untradeable category for items.

Let's entertain your horror scenarios for a second. For even RMT that don't get caught just what would be their reason to try to "farm" unfarmable items that cannot be given away? What possible gain could there ever be for that course of action?

NMs weren't a problem in XI it was one of the most enjoyable aspects of the game not only for endgamers but to people of all skill levels because they gave life and mystery to the barren landscapes.
A blinking arrow pointing to a FATE that get's repeated like clockwork in the exact same spot doesn't even begin to scratch that feeling of dynamic game world.

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Originally Posted by Seif

NMs weren't a problem in XI it was one of the most enjoyable aspects of the game not only for endgamers but to people of all skill levels because they gave life and mystery to the barren landscapes.

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NM's were what drove me to quit FFXI. HNM's were botted, not by RMT once they went rare/ex, but by HNM LS'. Getting a Black Belt was not an accomplishment, it meant which cheater did you end up paying. It was ridiculous. And hunting them? You think FFXIV is a lobby game...imagine truly standing and doing nothing for 3-4+ hours on end hoping that something dropped, if you even were able to get claim. It was a nightmare.