SE - 2.2 is Going to Cost You Greatly

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alym

I think it's far too early to even be looking at subscription gains/losses. We are way too close to the release of a major patch; of course there will be a ton of people playing right now.

---

Not really - Most new MMOs rarely survive past 6 months unless they're pay to win or "Free" to play, it's actually the right time to be paying attention to these numbers more than ever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tupsi

Not really - Most new MMOs rarely survive past 6 months unless they're pay to win or "Free" to play, it's actually the right time to be paying attention to these numbers more than ever.

---

Then you would say it's fair to look at the amount of people playing right before 2.2 also? There were far far fewer people running around in the days before 2.2 hit. We are seeing more players than normal right now because a big patch just released, not necessarily because the game is so amazing that no one ever left.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alym

It's obvious they are trying to appeal to a different demographic with 2.2 than they were with 2.0 and 2.1. Personally, I can only hope that this patch isn't an indication of how updates are in the future.

---

What demographics is that though :S

Seems to me they just want to stretch the grind out as long as possible so they have more time between patches.

But I think they will be mistaken because a lot of people will get fed up with the grind and RNG.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinko

What demographics is that though :S

Seems to me they just want to stretch the grind out as long as possible so they have more time between patches.

But I think they will be mistaken because a lot of people will get fed up with the grind and RNG.

---

I would say to an old school demographic - the ones that grew up with and enjoy this kind of grinding. I don't think it's a bad demographic to appeal to by any means, but it sure isn't what I signed up for based on 2.0 and 2.1.

Also, I think you're right that they are trying to make this content stretch as long as possible and it could potentially harm the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alym

I think it's far too early to even be looking at subscription gains/losses.
...
Personally, I can only hope that this patch isn't an indication of how updates are in the future.

---

I'm definitely with you on this. I've spent over 30 minutes trying to reply to your comment, typing and deleting and re-typing my response over and over trying to express what exactly it is that's bothering me about 2.2 but there's far too much for me to really detail in a forum post, especially when it'll just be met with "get out" comments from people who have a hard time understanding that negative feedback is far more important than an echo chamber. In the end I guess I just feel let down, and if 2.2 is indeed an accurate indication of the future then I'll regrettably have to say goodbye to Eorzea, which is something I really don't want to do. I'll be looking closely at how 2.3 shapes up.

Edit: And maybe it's unfair to lay the blame entirely on 2.2, becase no one really has a turn of faith based on one patch. But there are certainly decisions that have been made since the launch of 2.0 that have left me confused and 2.2 seems to continue that trend more heavy-handedly than previous patches.

For the most part I'm enjoying the new content. However, I'm very disappointed in SE for the real money retainers and I feel that this is a slippery slope. I already pay to play, I shouldn't have to pay to win. Yes, right now it's just some retainer venture loot, but once this starts it usually ends up with more game breaking things being added to a cash shop. RMT is supposed to be against the TOS.

lol, another "hundreds to thousands of players are unsubbing in rage because i dont like the changes" thread.

People asked for things to do besides log in for coil do it and log out for the week. Now you have something, it also helps get your company points for buffs. I have seen triple the people on since patch.

just another common thing when someone's mad. they try to lie and exaggerate by making it seem as if "thousands of people agree with them"

I feel betrayed. Yoshi has been quoted many times about making sure that what is in his game is fun. How is grinding endless fates with no sense of progress hour, after hour, after hour fun? Yes, there are some masochistic former FFXI players out there that get all steamy eyed about this nonsense but that is certainly not the feeling of most players. I"m all for rewards taking some time to get but I'd like them to be due to things I can measure and predict. When I do well, i get rewarded. Not when I spam mindless, no skill, soul crushing RNG events over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, .......

Getting Carried in dungeons raids or primals is hardly a challenge. The lazy can still get carried, the primal buyers can still buy their content, the people that want to do the fate grind can fate grind. The fate grind method takes the longest for the lazy or the players that arnt good, it's not for the "I need it now" crowd that is coming here whining about the quest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pinworms

People asked for things to do besides log in for coil do it and log out for the week. Now you have something, it also helps get your company points for buffs. I have seen triple the people on since patch.

---

Thats because the patch is new still, give it a few weeks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Waeksyn

I feel betrayed. Yoshi has been quoted many times about making sure that what is in his game is fun. How is grinding endless fates with no sense of progress hour, after hour, after hour fun? Yes, there are some masochistic former FFXI players out there that get all steamy eyed about this nonsense but that is certainly not the feeling of most players. I"m all for rewards taking some time to get but I'd like them to be due to things I can measure and predict. When I do well, i get rewarded. Not when I spam mindless, no skill, soul crushing RNG events over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, .......

---

Protip:

Not every single piece of content has to be fun for you. Those that find the grindyness of Atmas fun had nothing to consider fun before this.

New content is boring. Fix it please

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Waeksyn

When I do well, i get rewarded. Not when I spam mindless, no skill, soul crushing RNG events over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, .......

---

You are aware that Atma and its full upgrades are significantly weaker than other weapons added to the game that don't require RNG to obtain...right?

If you don't want to grind, you don't have to grind. The only reason the Atma/Animus upgrades exist is so people who DO like grindy content will have some little trophy to shut them up.

It isn't even statistically superior to the new primal weapon. It's just for people who want to grind. The Tidal Wave upgraded weapons are to the max Atma weapons as the EX Primal weapons are to the Zenith.



You don't have to grind. Stop whining.

We pay our $12! We can whine as much as we want!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gesser

Snip

---

As much as I love the author of your sig quote, I'm going to have to question: Why, oh why, do people keep making these types of topics? First 2.0, then 2.1, then 2.2...

I'm not looking to flame, I'm just wondering why people keep thinking each patch is going to mean the death of this game...

This game was dead to me after I cleared all the content in 2.1...

Hopefully wildstar or oblivion online can deliver something worth playing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ryios

This game was dead to me after I cleared all the content in 2.1...

Hopefully wildstar or oblivion online can deliver something worth playing.

---

k bye, see you on the forums tomorrow, and the next day, and in 2.3, and in 2.4...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Edellis

k bye, see you on the forums tomorrow, and the next day, and in 2.3, and in 2.4...

---

I'm on the forums and I still pay with a glimmer of hope (because 15$ is chump change). However, I haven't logged in to the game in over a month.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ryios

I'm on the forums and I still pay with a glimmer of hope (because 15$ is chump change). However, I haven't logged in to the game in over a month.

---

You are wasting your money then. Go spend it on something that makes you happy. Seriously. If you're that disappointed in the game, im sorry to break this to you, but you always will be. It's not going to magically change for you.


No amount of whining is going to make this game any less successful, no amount of doomsaying is going to "make the game suffer", no amount of forum topics is going to open anyone's eyes to your opinion. Just stop man.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Edellis

No amount of whining is going to make this game any less successful, no amount of doomsaying is going to "make the game suffer", no amount of forum topics is going to open anyone's eyes to your opinion. Just stop man.

---

And no amount of whining about others whining will change what they decide to do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Edellis

k bye, see you on the forums tomorrow, and the next day, and in 2.3, and in 2.4...

---

i like you for this

why is there so much hate( i guess everybody is trying to be some anithero martyr, look at me ... etc). All i know if i dont like something i dont do it(unless its my job and im getting paid). I do not like 1st person shooters and guess what .... I dont play them, hard to believe. I can only imagine the rage is this was like old school ffxi where it took an entire ls upwards a year(when cap was lvl 75) to get only one person a relic(usually the ls leader).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Penguinmayhem

I'd like to see a census of the userbase. How many people have actually done even half of the endgame content by now? How many people actually do grind Coil or Labyrinth or Crystal Tower on a daily, or semi-weekly or even weekly basis? What percentage of the userbase does that particular demographic represent?

---

Do a few google searches and you'll see pretty quickly that end-gamers, hardcore players, and even the number of people who use official game forums is less than 10-15% of any MMO subscriber base. Basically, they are the 1%, yet they screech, howl, and moan louder than the other 85-90% of all other players. The real question is: Do you really think the 10-15% are capable of accepting the reality that they are the extreme minority???

My only complaint is that my schedule is a 24/48. I can devote time to this game, but there are 0 groups who use that schedule. After trying to recruit for a week and not getting a bite, I settled into accepting that I won't really get a static group for anything, which made anything past Turn 2 not worth the headache for me. I could however grind myth and try to PUG as my patience allowed and make some progress towards having a comparable set, even if it was sub-par to allagan most of the time for my main. Now with 2.2, that's pretty much done. I can now devote twice the time for less reward. But a guy in a LS I'm in didn't know regen was the most MP effecient ST cure WHMs have, or medica 2 only beats medica if the regen is taking effect now has some new allagan gear week 1.

I'm not really sure how I feel about putting in much more effort but falling behind (Not even hey I'm using myth neck instead of allagan since I can't get the BiS) terrible players simply due to the fact I can't find a group that's a 24/48 schedule. I'm OK with not having the best stuff, in 2.1 a character who did coil would have better gear than one that didn't, even if their ilvl was the same. In 2.2 you simply don't stand a chance without a group, and that's discouraging.

So far every time the community has complained about something, it was changed

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

So far every time the community has complained about something, it was changed

---

This is hardly true, but it's very clear they do pay attention.

On point with the main complaint of atma, I really don't see where the idea that it needs to be done comes from. Far as I understand, there is other gear that's actually even more powerful. Why pursue the upgradable weapon with full force if it doesn't interest you? Yes you will be able to upgrade it more with each patch, but presumably they will also have stronger gear from dungeons, crafting, and primal fights.

I feel like people are putting far too much focus on it.

they cant
these hardcore want something different from casual in term how equipment look after 2.2, non echo dungeon bec they want to queue solo duty finder with random casual for challenge although he/she overgear, powerful equipment that can only be access by hardest dungeon and not can be access by everyone like zodiark weapon, and dont forget zodiark weapon with full upgrade that can be get within 1 hour bec they dont have time to play (you know "busy irl" thing)

they also cant grind new coil bec the video how to beat not even release yet bec these hardcore dont have requirement to watch video before join. thats why they want special right to get zodiark weapon

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kirosuu

they also cant grind new coil bec the video how to beat not even release yet bec these hardcore dont have requirement to watch video before join. thats why they want special right to get zodiark weapon

---

i didnt understand anything you said except for the zodiac part. the "problem" with that weapon upgrade is that no one wants to do fates for a chance to get a drop. for alternate weapons, its not doable first week because of coil lockout and with no one knowing where sands of time drop, everyone is going to be "stuck" at ilvl100 wep wise. the levi weapons are another alternative, but to upgrade those requires another random drop that is also rare. yes you can farm it out as much as you want, but if you go 50/50 fights and it doesnt drop, its disheartning.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaze3434

i didnt understand anything you said except for the zodiac part. the "problem" with that weapon upgrade is that no one wants to do fates for a chance to get a drop. for alternate weapons, its not doable first week because of coil lockout and with no one knowing where sands of time drop, everyone is going to be "stuck" at ilvl100 wep wise. the levi weapons are another alternative, but to upgrade those requires another random drop that is also rare. yes you can farm it out as much as you want, but if you go 50/50 fights and it doesnt drop, its disheartning.

---

So everything requires farming for an item that is rare... The problem?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fayto

So everything requires farming for an item that is rare... The problem?

---

the farming part? nothing. the abysmally low chance people have to have the items drop? everything to some people. i got my first 4 rather fast. im stuck at 7 now. do i hate it? yes, but im going to keep at it until my friends sign in so we can do coils/levex.

I think the disdain for FATEs and Atma farming is people doing it in a way SE did not intend. The FATE system was meant to be one in which people would do as they popped up and were near one while leveling. It was meant to be a detour from quest grinding. It turned into a hunt fest when people realized that it was the most efficient way to level at the time. It seems getting the Atma crystals was not meant for people to go FATE to FATE for hours on end at a time. It is designed for people to try for a while and then move on to something else for a while. The Atma relic was never meant for everyone to have, nor for people to get immediately but was meant to be something people could do when there was nothing else to do at the time. If played the way it was designed, Atma farming wouldn't be so bad even though it might take weeks to get 1 relic upgraded to Atma. Try and think of how content was designed to be played and you might find it is more enjoyable that way.

OP, it's been less than a week since 2.2 was released.

"Demanding answers" from SE is ridiculous at this point in time.

Right now, they are busy trying to hotfix any unforseen problems with the 2.2 launch (which is standard operating procedure for this industry)


You'll get communication from SE over the coming weeks, trust me. Until then, enjoy the game! :)

why is everyones avatar Yoshi-P, he's freaking out...

I'm not a fan of the FATE grinding for atmas, but I see why it was done this way. They thought Titan HM would be a good enough skill check, but all that happened is companies started selling titan carries. This encouraged RMTs and put way more zenith relics in the wild at a much faster pace than SE had anticipated. It sucks but the fastest way around it is to make it a time sink rather than a skill check. SE's on a tight schedule with getting this content stuff out there while also working on the first expansion. There isn't enough in game right now, so the focus is on speed I believe. If they were able to take some time to slow down their design process I bet they could do some great stuff. But I don't see this happening until after the first expansion goes live next year.

And it isn't *that* bad. Certainly nowhere near the ridiculousness that was relic weapons in pre-aby FFXI.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lord_Zlatan

why is everyones avatar Yoshi-P, he's freaking out...

---

Popular speculation is it's an April Fools joke (it's April 1st in Japan).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eekiki

SE's on a tight schedule with getting this content stuff out there while also working on the first expansion. There isn't enough in game right now, so the focus is on speed I believe. If they were able to take some time to slow down their design process I bet they could do some great stuff. But I don't see this happening until after the first expansion goes live next year.

And it isn't *that* bad. Certainly nowhere near the ridiculousness that was relic weapons in pre-aby FFXI.

---

So...speed is the excuse for poor design?

Also, what does XI have to do with anything? This isn't XI... you could compare to any game...and say it's not as "bad" as X... that is not a very good way to evaluate something... pick something that is worse and say "It could have been worse".

If all they did to ATMA was change the FATE RNG to something like do 1000 Fates in one area for the atma 12 times for each one (total 12,000 fates) I wouldn't mind at all. 2.2 would be amazing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

So...speed is the excuse for poor design?

*snipped out unnecessary and off-topic critique of how I presented my opinion*

---

No, speed isn't an excuse for poor design. There is no excuse for poor design. I don't consider this poor design. You may not enjoy it (I certainly don't enjoy it), but this design serves its purpose. Of course it could be done better, but they have time constraints right now. They needed a way to slow down gear progression, and this way is tried and true. And like everything else in this game it is not permanent. So you can either deal with it, or you can wait until they make it better (and they will make it better). And bear in mind that you have other options for i100 weapons.

Yoshida here,
OP has failed to deliver. We have identified his issue and are working to resolve it in scheduled maintenance.
Please look forward to it!