Well, Yes 6 hours, half a day of available play time, assuming you stay awake about 12 hours, and you sleep some hours, (or you don't? >_>)Quote:
Originally Posted by Amberion
True you could go fight crabs, just saying it was time consuming.
anyway, back to topic
This game is like Final Fantasy XI pre Chains of Promathia
Printable View
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03-11-2014, 06:25 AMAzrael
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03-11-2014, 06:27 AMMorticousI don't see how this is way too much time.. if it gave you 4 weeks worth of content to do... rather then 2 days.. why is that bad? if it takes you 6 months to get through all the available content... why is that bad??? it just means you have something to do for a LONG time.. Right now a new player can get on and be down with FFXIV in 2 months.. and it will never be more because the content they build is disposable.. so after the initial 2 months you will have 1 month max worth of content every 3-4 months... how is that more fun then having something to do every day for 6 months straight?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilthas
Also, this is another problem with the gaming community of today.. It shouldn't be JUST A NAME... Relics are supposed to be epic.. its apart of the story of the world.. The players that dont care about the story or any o fthe meat of the game and only care about the stats and how quickly they can get it are the ones ruining these games for everyone else and creating a bland experience.Quote:
Relics taking a lot less time to get in FFXIV isn't a problem (it's just a name after all).
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03-11-2014, 06:29 AMFumijj_GahNope, because people even didn't know what to fight. : PQuote:
Originally Posted by Gilthas
I think we're talking of two different things. I was one of first lv.10 and actually the whole server didn't know where to go. Most of them just did solo exp in La Theine or PT with crabs, randomly. It tooks few days to get people gathered in Valkurum and to understand what to do. Even the lv.7-10/12 experience in Ghelsba was unforgettable. FFXI had magic that XIV doesn't have since Yoshi-P touched the game. -
03-11-2014, 06:30 AMAmberionI believe that is what made it a success though. It forced socialization, and a need for LS later on. And even if people found something boring to do, it became much more fun since you had people you knew around. In this game, LS/FC aren't truly needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilthas
EDIT: Do anyone remember their first party in FFXI? I do.
Do you in FFXIV ARR? I don't. -
03-11-2014, 06:32 AMNoahlimitsI think it's because a lot of people see grind content as artificial content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morticous
If it weren't for the fact that:
a) dying lost exp
b) it took a long long long long time to level
People would have accomplished the game at a much faster rate. I personally don't mind 'artificial content' as others put it, as I loved FFXI. But that's the general opinion of most on the forums when it comes to XI: only took long to get to end game because it made you grind for levels -
03-11-2014, 06:33 AMGilthasYou misread my post. A poster was saying that it would take you at least 4 weeks to get to Kazham, my post was saying that you could easily reach Kazham in less than 4 weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morticous
As for your argumentation of "if it gave you 4 weeks of content to do". That would have been great. But what FFXI really gave you was 1 weekish of content and 3 weeks of waiting.
People complain a lot about the lockouts in FFXIV, but the truth is, the majority of my playtime in FFXI consisted of playing the waiting game.
People that want socialization in FFXIV can get it easily. I personally can do without the forced socialization of FFXI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amberion
As for your questions about parties, the answer is no for both accounts. I loved FFXI to death, but sometimes I wonder if people even remember how playing the game really was like. -
03-11-2014, 06:34 AMAmberionBut it also meant something to get a level. I think everyone remembers the "Dings" that showed up in LS chat. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Noahlimits
True, it was time consuming. But it also made me feel like time existed in Vana. And sleep? Didn't know what that was the first weeks after getting FFXI.Quote:
Well, Yes 6 hours, half a day of available play time, assuming you stay awake about 12 hours, and you sleep some hours, (or you don't? >_>)
True you could go fight crabs, just saying it was time consuming.
anyway, back to topic
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03-11-2014, 06:38 AMNoahlimitsNo arguments from me. I loved leveling in XI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amberion
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03-11-2014, 06:42 AMTheplatterHaha, I do. I was on war and stood there like a jackass because I didn't know what to do, so the party wiped and I was kicked right afterwards. Good times!Quote:
Originally Posted by Amberion
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03-11-2014, 06:43 AMAzraelTrue, damn it was so much fun xD I really was feeling part of the game. Oh and when you would get the next level gear, damn people would be so happy. Every level you did was an achievement, every equip you weared you could remember of it, in FFXIV i don't even care about what i'm wearing, just collect 90's piece, and totally forgot about mid level gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amberion
I also remember all FFXI musics, i could write books on that game, was a magic experience. -
03-11-2014, 06:47 AMMorticous
was leveling in FFXI boring? Some might say yes.. I had fun, i spent the downtime of leveling talking with friends.. didn't have to focus much.. It did take me to new areas to explore and helped me meet new people in my community.. Could it have been livened up a little? Probably.. Do i prefer it over running madly through fates or the same predictable dungeons over and over and over?? HELL YES...
When i logged into FFXI.. I wasn't hardcore.. I didn't even get alot done.. but i loved it.. i had so much fun.. I log into this game and i just get pissed off and i avoid it when i can.. I have a static and I own a shell so it can be hard to avoid sometimes.. but its taking a lot from me not to quit right now before the next expansion so i can at least get a better sense of the direction it will be going in.. My hope is.. the new expansion will usher in brand new game play similar to FFXI.. nobody else has to like it.. but i sure as hell will!
And for the record.. I have a 40 hour job... and a girlfriend that takes up my weekends.. so i dont exactly have 8-12 hours 7 days a week to play.. but that doesnt mean i want everything in the game slammed in my lap because I "Dont have time".
Sounds like you might be ok if every person or item in the game had numbers for names.... to me.. it makes all the difference.. You dont get an epic bronze sword at ilevel 90 because your ilvel 10 Excalibur is no longer useful...Quote:
Oh please, it's just the name of the weapon. Stuff doesn't need to take months or years to get for me to find value in getting it (that's the problem with people that keep mentioning how awesome getting gear was in FFXI), I just want to have fun while doing it. The stuff I had to do in FFXI to get gear certainly wasn't fun.
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03-11-2014, 06:47 AMGilthasOh please, it's just the name of the weapon. Stuff doesn't need to take months or years to get for me to find value in getting it (that's the problem with people that keep mentioning how awesome getting gear was in FFXI), I just want to have fun while doing it. The stuff I had to do in FFXI to get gear certainly wasn't fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morticous
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03-11-2014, 06:54 AMAzraelI don't see how you can say it's fun to farm a weapon in 8 hours that's supposed to be the best in the game (and it isn't) but that's actually the most common weapon, lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Gilthas
Where is your sense of achievement? -
03-11-2014, 07:06 AMReplicaXTry 2002 MMO Design/Genre Vs 2013 MMO Design/Genre.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fumijj_Gah
FFXI: Chrono Cross Team assigned for Development
Akihiko Matsui - Battle data designer (2002-2009), battle director (2002-2009), director (2010), Producer (2012 - current)
Nobuaki Komoto - Director (2003 - 2008)
FFXIV ARR:
Akihiko Matsui - Lead Combat System Designer
Nobuaki Komoto - Lead Designer
Both games resourced from all Teams as needed during their development.
Explain Abyssea and Seekers of Adoulin then with your Team 2-4 + Tanaka soul of the game vision then. -
03-11-2014, 07:09 AMFumijj_GahI am making a big post, you will see everything I think about this inside.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReplicaX
Btw you replied yourself, Abyssea = Matsui, FFXI team changed when XIV 2009 was out. -
03-11-2014, 07:39 AMReplicaXGet your facts straight please if you even want to argue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fumijj_Gah
Tanaka was the Producer of XI until June 2012.
Matsui took over Director for XI in Sept 2010 until he was reassigned to XIV as Lead Combat Designer Dec 2010 when Tanaka was replaced by Yoshi as Producer.
June 2012 at Vanafest Tanaka stepped down as XI Producer and Matsui was made Producer of XI. Tanaka left the company.
There is even an Official PlayOnline post regarding it: http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics...44/detail.html
Hint: Vanafest 2012 announced Seekers of Adoulin was already in Development. < Tanaka
Btw: Final Fantasy XIV 1.0 was released September 22, 2010 -
03-11-2014, 08:48 AMReplicaX
Reposting this here due to the other thread's title.
I don't blame Tanaka for XIV 1.0. The guy produced a successful MMO for his reign, FFXI. The Genre has changed since 2002 and some ppl aren't willing to accept many of those changes.
Also many of the employees from XI and XIV 1.0 worked on ARR.
Both games XI and XIV as a whole happen because of everyone involved. Yoshi may make final calls on certain direction, but the game is made up of creative ideas and concepts by everyone, not just a Producer. Many of the Leads involved with ARR are Veteran Leads with prior Final Fantasy series experience.
We even have translated responses from Leads all the time on these forums with their explanations on their area of the game. -
03-11-2014, 08:52 AMSari-Estersand
Reporting the other deleted thread by some Mafia S-E GM, really annoying:
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fumijj gah:
Why Yoshi-P ruined FFXIV game design
____________________________________________
With the full respect for Yoshida.
I understand the pressure Yoshida had and I respect all the work he made in this year.
But he chose to follow the rage spam feedback of casual users and now I have to say something.
So, starting to say this is my personal opinion as MMORPG player but especially FFXI one.
For "game design" I mean the full gameplay experience and atmosphere of the game.
Style, feelings, graphic and music
____________________________________________
Let's start talking about Akihiko Yoshida arts and background in 1.0
http://www.fumijj-gah.com/screen/p1.jpg
These was the original places the original team created and released in 2009.
You could feel you were playing into a really big area and gameplay was more thoughtful, exploration-oriented and with no guidelines.
In 2.0, La Noscea, Thanalan and The Black Shroud still have a nice look but mainly because they are just a "restyling" of 1.0 areas.
Today, look at Coerthas and Mor Dhona. We have two totally new areas by Yoshi-P team: all the magic Coerthas (a huge fantasy land with an amazing and never boring Uematsu track) and Mor Dhona (a dark and mysterious place) had in 1.0 is gone, replaced by a fate spam area (that also destroyed King Behemoth reputation with a ridiculous fate and fight) and a terrible hi-tech no-sense myth points giveaway.
Battle system and sound design
____________________________________________
1.0
http://s9.postimage.org/iugrrmx1b/FF..._interface.jpg
2.0
http://s9.postimage.org/wmv6n9nsv/FF..._interface.jpg
In 1.0, battle system was more thoughtful, classic like ffxi/1.0, not like the button smashing we have now in 2.0, if (for example) you have ever played a drg full rotation, you know what I'm talking about, you have to struggle to close a 9 abilities rotation before the heavy thrust buff ends.
Speaking of battle, the sound the weapons do is shameful. Black magic/healing magic are ok, arrows too. Blades are not ok. It feels like you are cutting the air, not actually hit meat/armors. So, i don't feel the power of my weapon actually striking the enemy, sound counts. - thanks to Azrael Lucifer
Conclusion
____________________________________________
FFXI showed to us how to create a MMORPG masterpiece without WoW' settings.
An unique game design, characteristic of the saga since the old days.
Roll back to 1.0 and continue the fantasy.
---- -
03-11-2014, 09:07 AMTheUltimate3This game cannot survive another redo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sari-Estersand
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03-11-2014, 09:21 AMTupsiThis - You haven't experienced just how stagnated and saturated this genre is with MMOs like ARR.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido
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03-11-2014, 09:22 AMArkghyom
I didn't know this game was a sandbox MMO.
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03-11-2014, 10:14 AMGilthasThis has nothing to do with what I was saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morticous
I don't need to be the only guy on the server with a relic to feel a sense of achievement (that's just being shallow), nor do I need to spend months working for one to feel that same sense of achievement. I did endgame in FFXI for years. Spent most of my game time waiting for stuff to pop. Because that's the real issue here, it wasn't hard to get stuff in FFXI in the sense that you had to do some tough battles, no, the hard part of getting gear in FFXI was all the waiting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azrael
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03-11-2014, 11:09 AMGoodberryO yeah, we all cleared everything. It's so easy that I cleared everything while sleeping. Pity that I don't remember having done it. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by DSX
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03-11-2014, 12:27 PMNutz
I played XI for a long time on and off, and while I liked it at the time I would never want to go back to a game like that again for many reasons. Firstly, XIV does a much better job telling its story (nevermind how much you like the story compared to XI). You don't have enormous weeks/ months long gaps between story missions/ quests in XIV like you did in XI. Hell, XI barely had any missions to do pre-RoZ, and the Zilart missions were pretty scarce as well. CoP had a great story, but it was even less accessible. Hard content is fine, but given the level of user unfriendliness a wipe on a lot of battles meant you were done.
Leveling in XI was tiresome. I literally fell asleep doing it a few times. If you logged on and were in an experience party within the first hour of play it was going to be a great day! There were many days I logged on with the intention of leveling, but after a few hours of LFP I'd give up. The combat system was extremely slow, though it did offer more interaction between players. Still, I don't know how people could possibly complain about running WP/ AK over and over but delight in the idea of camping in a tiny corner of a zone killing the exact same group of 5 enemies over and over for hours. Maybe I'm mixing the demographics.
In any case, XIV has a respectable amount of content, but the developers decided to allow people to retry things with no restrictions until they win (well there is the timer, but lol). The content isn't easier or in a much smaller quantity really, SE just removed 95%+ of the time sinks. In fact, I can't think of any time sinks that the devs put in at all. There are a couple of lock outs and caps, but that's it. It certainly changes the way players approach the game, but for me it just means that I can progress when I sit down to play instead of just sitting around, too timid to even try to do much on my own for fear that I'll actually end losing experience instead of gaining it.
Without the time sinks you can be much more productive, but that leads to getting everything done if you play enough. If SE plan on addressing this, they will have to do 2 things: Maintain multiple top tier end game systems and create gear based reasons to do more than 1 of them. Basically they need to construct an itemization system that allows for meaningful variety without the gear swapping madness of XI. There are probably other ways to do it, but their current method of just not letting you repeat things more than once a week mostly just makes people not play [as much]. -
03-11-2014, 12:41 PMdarkstarpoet1you would quit because you have a full time job now, but do you know the truth? there is a teenager that has no job that would gladly take your place and play that mmo. you act like your generation was the last generation that ever wanted to play a mmo that had challenges and time investments. the truth is kids are not exposed to the types of fun a mmo can offer because the older crowd refuses to let the genre go because they cannot play the game like they once did years ago so they want a mmo to become an action adventure lobby co-op game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiza
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03-11-2014, 01:01 PMGextiv
The game is a masterpiece with no equal.
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03-11-2014, 03:00 PMVelhart
I love it that only FFXI players want FFXI back. The rose-tinted glasses say the leveling experience was "immerse and fun", but all I remember is sitting hours in Dunes waiting and trying to form a party just for it to disband after 10 minutes. Leveling experiences so horrid that people tried to find the fastest method possible, it being a god send when a WHM came to power level the party. People always tried to find the least resistant method because of such a boring and tedious task it was. Even in FFXIV 1.xx, people fought over the same camping spots because they were the fastest. Not to mention some jobs in FFXI were just straight out not welcomed to parties and either you were lucky to get one or you had to find things to solo on. Jobs were not invited because the game was a horrid, unbalanced mess that made people feel bad for liking a certain job. Getting a job to 75 was only rewarding because you dealt with all the crap said above to get it.
However, that is just how MMO's were back then. I liked the aspects of FFXI that were actually good, but today, FFXI's style of leveling is one of the least appealing and I mostly only see FFXI players wanting something like it back. Standards did not apply to the extent that they do today. Ideas like long, painful grinding in camp spots were outdated even in FFXIV 1.xx, where people exploited the guildleve system to get an advantage on EXP, because grinding a class was a very painful experience. -
03-11-2014, 03:20 PMchococoWorking 40 hours a week is little in asian countries, which also holds alot of players from SEA region. People still cap stuff. People are still looking for more long-term goals than this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiza
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03-12-2014, 02:10 AMAutymnfyres---------------------------------Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiza
Akiza...there have been hundreds of reasonable, creative and well-thought out 'suggestions' made here.
Shakes head and relaxes finally...
The more posts I read which are a rehash of the exact same posts created here in like, the first MONTH of the game, proves to me that I shouldn't be upset. I need to realize honestly, there are a LOT of new to mmo players here. Many subjects brought up have suggestions in them which are literally, EXACTLY the same as veteran mmo players brought up long, LONG ago...and the newer players honestly are trying to be helpful...
o-0. Different, such a different player population and game than what I thought it would be. Have fun and I sincerely hope you enjoy this "extremely casual" game -- that is a direct quote from Yoshi. I wish I'd have known...and BELIEVED THE PRODUCER/HEAD/PERSON IN CHARGE. -
03-12-2014, 07:07 PMDSXThere is always people with free time whether it because they are still students or for any other reason. Also lets not pretend that students were the only players of FFXI. Back in the day I met all sorts of people playing the game, students, employees, fathers, mothers, grandchildren, grandparents..etc etcQuote:
Originally Posted by Akiza
So please stop acting as if your generation was the last generation of students or that all those family men and women I met in the game did not exit. Fact of the matter is all sorts of people played the game from all walks of life and ages.
If you can't manage your time so you can play the game then find a game that suits your time frame and let others enjoy the type of games that consume more time than you can afford, don't just ask for every single game to be catering to the people that have minimal time for gaming (really if you have no time to play then you should focus on whats important in your life at the time). Trust me variety is good, asking every single MMORPG to be targeting people with no time to spare is bad for the industry we get a lot of games that are simply clones as a result.
I guess several kind posters already addressed your argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nero
I'm sorry but I believe that you are wrong. Why would big companies in the industry like Blizzard and SE allocate and spend millions upon millions of dollars in budget to develop big projects like FFXI and WoW and release them if the MMORPG was not a genre of its own back then or that the profit generated was not saliva inducing to both SE and Blizzard?Quote:
Originally Posted by Velhart
They looked at the genre and saw how much money it can generate and based on that they spent big budgets to compete in it BEFORE WoW was released and bring with it what you call "accessibility".
You didn't enjoy it that is your opinion (and others who feel the same) but you must also accept that there are others who did enjoy it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Velhart
What you call the minority were more than enough to carry FFXI for 10+ years strong and becoming the most profitable game in SE history. There is no denying that this group of gamers is smaller than the other crowd that like the content "accessible". The main difference is loyalty, the first group known to sub for years while the second group known to leave the game to rot in a year or two with only one exception WoW itself which is the game that brought this new "accessible" style to begin with. After WoW we saw this audience that you and others like to flaunt their numbers leave game after game after game after game to die in the dust. I think the wise thing to do is to cater to the audience that will actually pay for the duration of your long term project and not the one that will pay for a year or two out of your projected 10 years project then leave you die.Quote:
Originally Posted by Velhart
Every generation is the memememememem generation for decades if you haven't noticed. yes the late 90s and early 20s generation was also a mememememem generation. The key was to not try to cater to all of them because people with such attitude can never be please (case in point look at the grave yard of MMORPGs these days a result of trying to) but rather to cater to the hardcore loyal gamers sub-group of the generation which worked perfectly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Orophin
Sky was an area where the players decided to farm, it wasn't something the game asked to go to more than once while the primals are something the game itself by design ask you to go do over and over with every rehash. If you can convince them its worth it then why not. I guess Sky was way more convincing then these several rehashes of the same battle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Orophin
Or when a gob come along then cast Sleepga to sleep the whole party then cast Firga III on the tank and wipe the party (it happened to me) :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Fumijj_Gah
As it should be. An adventure where you the adventurer get challenged and put to the test to hone your skills and understanding of every single ability you have. It will make you mix and try unorthodox things with your abilities and learn more about them. :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattia
I reallt hope Ito get full control over FFXVI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fumijj_Gah
You are skipping the part that VD was the first place you actually group up with other and learn everything there is to learn about how to handle battles in a party. Sure organizing a PT with players who had several lvl75 jobs would make that process faster for the new comers its their first chance at how to play in groups (which they need to learn pretty well because that s what they will need to do for the rest of the game).Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilthas
In case you don't know its called management. SE management decided the direction shift in FFXI (which resulted in ruining it when abyssea dropped) and they are the ones behind FFXIV ver1 fiasco and they are the ones that decided what direction the wanted for FFXIV ver2.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReplicaX
I suggest you look up the definition of the word "Majority" :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodberry
If you can't fathom that some people enjoyed it that doesn't mean it is in fact physically impossible to happen. I understand that you couldn't find anything joyful about it and failed to feel how the community could have fun doing it together however regardless of how you felt about it you must acknowledge that other people could just genuinely enjoy it with out any "rose-tainted glasses".Quote:
Originally Posted by Velhart
If the world worked by your standard (that if you cant fathom how a thing can be fun to someone when you personally feel its painful) then we would be still living in the stone age. Because simply if you find learning mathematics painful then its impossible for someone else to find it fun, and if you found physics painful to learn then its impossible for anyone else to find joy in learning it, and if you find learning biology or chemistry tedious and boring to practice then it is impossible for others to like doing it and sharing it with others then we will end up in a world where we made no progress in any field of life. You need to accept that no matter how painful or repulsive you find something that it is possible for someone else to genuinely like it.
It all depends on what audience you are catering to and selling the game to. Of course if your target is casuals then they will not be pleased. But is your target was the smaller audience that is the hardcore gamers then you will get their loyalty for years to come, look how long they subbed to the old games and look long the new audience stay in the new games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Velhart
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03-12-2014, 08:44 PMReplicaXI am well aware of this DSX. Perhaps if you read the thread and saw the fact my counter argument against Fumijj_Gah is pointing out that one person doesn't decide the development and direction of a game but many. Their whole opinion is based on XI being successful because of one man Tanaka and blamed Matsui for the redirection. Tossing aside that there is also a Team, Company with Upper Management and it being a traded company.Quote:
Originally Posted by DSX
Just like XI isn't the perfect MMO. It had its faults like any other game. It is a successful MMO and its years of service and subscription model made it the most profitable FF game in the series. Regardless of lower subscription numbers compared to many other popular MMOs.
To add:
Many like to blame the face of the game instead of the Company as a whole. With SE MMOs that face has always been the producer which Fumijj_Gah blamed someone that wasn't even the Producer during the shift of Abyssea and start of Level cap raises. Instead it was the person he favors Tanaka and the period of XI he also favors, pre-abyssea which Tanaka was also the Producer.
If you can't recall a prime example of this method. The mass blame Tanaka received during 1.0 beta and launch by the community and a few journalists. -
03-12-2014, 10:43 PMNeroI SAID it is an old Graph and the last official one. Graph's like that hardly change over time, so it does not matter if it is 1 Month old for 4 Month old. SE will probably make a Census after 1 Year and then you will see that said Graph will look similiar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azrael
Sorry that i dont share your view of playing a Game. I am in no hurry to finish a quest, a leve, or a craft or whatever else lol. I never said i NEED 3-4 hours.. JUST for dailies. Dailies are a part of what i do, like i also do leve's, craft furnitures, mats, gather for said crafts, go and and fish, do dungeons and whatnot. Unlike many other people i do not ignore what the Game has to offer, if you don't like it that is totally fine, but seriously do not throw me into the same Category as you. I am simply not, since i also completed the said Content like Coil and Ex-Primals, which you have not done yet. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Azrael
lol.. Post-Crapyssea it is less than a week to get to 99. :rolleyes: and after CoP/Zilart the average time was 8-12 Weeks. BUT That is the thing.. if you play abouth the Average player, then the Statement that you can level from 1 to 50 in FFXIV also is not true, since that is not how fast the "Average" player goes. Some Jobs like DRG took way longer, but only if you were not able to build your own Group. My first was RDM, which took 4 weeks, like it or not. Sorry if you were not "hardcore" enough back in the days, but sorry to burst your bubble there. I probably played it more intense than you could ever imagine. Back then i played 10+ hout a day, simply because i was able to. Even today i hardly sleep more than 4-5 hours a day lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azrael
See that is the thing.. just that it is impossible for you, does not imply it is for others. And to that guy below you, with Colibri Camps and ToAU the average went down to 3-4 weeks. I dont know about how fast it was afterwards since i quit during wotg, retried Abyssea and was like.. "WTF happend to this game"..
Nope not impossible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fumijj_Gah
Let aside that you were not in need of those things to level your job up, beside Genkai's. Yeah.. nice try tho. Airship Key was buyable for 150k? ( iirc ) and Kazham map was easy.. are you kidding me? The Chocobo quests took never a full day.. now you are getting hilarious and we are surprised why Games got dumbed down that much. I Loved XI and it had a ton of Timesinks, but the Choco lincense was not one of them, you had to wait several Game Days for the trade's, but thats about it. Yes, there were tons of Quests which took a lot of time, but has nothing to do with straight leveling and may i should mention that i had a ls and a static from day 1 with PL. So no... not impossibru ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fumijj_Gah
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03-12-2014, 10:51 PMVelhart
I'm bored and in the mood to argue, lets do this.
You are thinking too hard. Not considered a genre to the eyes of the public on a large scale.Quote:
Originally Posted by DSX
Yep. The same way that I don't like beating my head over and over again with a rock, but I understand that some may enjoy doing this.Quote:
You didn't enjoy it that is your opinion (and others who feel the same) but you must also accept that there are others who did enjoy it.
Why in the world would you cater to the minority with 'little' profit when you can amass a large profit from a very large fan base who are more than likely staying around. You act like people left these MMO's because they were "WoW Clones", when I can tell you after experiencing most of the MMO's who overestimated their numbers was the quality of the content itself or lack of. Trust me, SWTOR didn't go F2P just because it used WoW's template. ARR actually brings in quality content every 3-4 months which is definitely a lot more than even someone like Blizzard can dish out. Quality and consistency keep people in.Quote:
What you call the minority were more than enough to carry FFXI for 10+ years strong and becoming the most profitable game in SE history. There is no denying that this group of gamers is smaller than the other crowd that like the content "accessible". The main difference is loyalty, the first group known to sub for years while the second group known to leave the game to rot in a year or two with only one exception WoW itself which is the game that brought this new "accessible" style to begin with. After WoW we saw this audience that you and others like to flaunt their numbers leave game after game after game after game to die in the dust. I think the wise thing to do is to cater to the audience that will actually pay for the duration of your long term project and not the one that will pay for a year or two out of your projected 10 years project then leave you die.
If you liked it, fine and dandy. However, this forum is the first time I have heard people enjoying this aspect. I never heard people in FFXI itself or any forums based on it praise it's leveling experience. A lot actually requested SE to tone it down. So I scratch my head when I see people on here praising what was hated and despised so much then. Not saying there were not people who enjoyed it, but I certainly never met them.Quote:
If you can't fathom that some people enjoyed it that doesn't mean it is in fact physically impossible to happen. I understand that you couldn't find anything joyful about it and failed to feel how the community could have fun doing it together however regardless of how you felt about it you must acknowledge that other people could just genuinely enjoy it with out any "rose-tainted glasses".
Its not about what 'I' find fun. It is what the majority find fun, and certainly not the minority. If the genre evolved in the direction I didn't care for, I would simply find one that did appeal to me, I wouldn't try to convince everyone they should change things the way 'I' want it. It isn't about respecting or disrespecting your opinion, it is respecting the will of the majority.Quote:
If the world worked by your standard (that if you cant fathom how a thing can be fun to someone when you personally feel its painful) then we would be still living in the stone age. Because simply if you find learning mathematics painful then its impossible for someone else to find it fun, and if you found physics painful to learn then its impossible for anyone else to find joy in learning it, and if you find learning biology or chemistry tedious and boring to practice then it is impossible for others to like doing it and sharing it with others then we will end up in a world where we made no progress in any field of life. You need to accept that no matter how painful or repulsive you find something that it is possible for someone else to genuinely like it.
Funny thing is, 1.xx was meant to cater to casuals. Tanaka said it himself. Also, can I ask who this 'loyal fanbase' is? Isn't it the people who enjoy the game in it's current state? I know it isn't FFXI players, because loyal FFXI players are playing FFXI. Loyal ARR players are playing ARR and will likely continue on doing so even if the numbers drop dramatically.Quote:
It all depends on what audience you are catering to and selling the game to. Of course if your target is casuals then they will not be pleased. But is your target was the smaller audience that is the hardcore gamers then you will get their loyalty for years to come, look how long they subbed to the old games and look long the new audience stay in the new games.
I honestly wish I could come into these forums and praise FFXI, because it had so many good aspects and ideas that would work well into ARR's set up. I would enjoy the hell out of doing a Nyzul Isle like instance again or take up the COrsair job again with it's own FFXIV twist. However, people here make it so hard by trying to bring up these old and archaic methods that truly only a select few would enjoy. -
03-12-2014, 11:12 PMFumijj_Gah
I don't know in which kind of world you're living Nero.
Graph changes totally, since it's months gone till the release.Quote:
Graph's like that hardly change over time
Maybe you can't understand he has all jobs 50 and legacy players don't need exp but just contents. There's no leves, no craft (even to sell things is worthless the economy is destroyed because of Yoshi-P wrong direction) and dungeons are completed since long time ago.Quote:
Dailies are a part of what i do, like i also do leve's, craft furnitures, mats, gather for said crafts, go and and fish, do dungeons and whatnot
Quickly post Abyssea there's no lv.99. The level cap was raised in 2011 to 95 in September and finally to 99 in December, two years later Abyssea release. Stop talking about things you totally ignore and you don't know please. We're talking about the release, not two years later abyssea when FFXIV was already out.Quote:
lol.. Post-Crapyssea it is less than a week to get to 99
Sure, so you're saying people had 150k in bag in five days after release. A nice gil buyer job. And Kazham (the jungle, of course) map was easy, sure.Quote:
Yeah.. nice try tho. Airship Key was buyable for 150k? ( iirc ) and Kazham map was easy.. are you kidding me?
You obiouvsly know nothing about FFXI and you are here to protect, shouting lies, your powerleveledcharabyefriend(c) and characterwhohasusedbot(c)'s game.
GG~ -
03-12-2014, 11:31 PMAzrael
@ Nero:
Everything i had to say it's in the previous fumi post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fumijj_Gah
You say graph can't change, you are assuming 1 month after release people were supposed to be all 50 already? lol stop it already, you are ridiculous. Of course the graph changed after 6 months
When we refer to FFXI, we talk about ORIGINAL ffxi with cap 75, not abyssea crap. Again, you are saying bs to try to prove your point, stop failing.
150k for an airship pass? at level 25 on first character? Unless you were a gilbuyer, you never got the pass, unless you did the quest.
Oh so you didn't even need a subjob to get to 75? I wonder how gimped your character was, man, really. I'm also curious to know who would join your groups. Come on, high level, without subjob and rank 1 (you said you didn't need missions), not even AFs, rushing to 75 so fast you didn't have the time even to farm money for some good equipment, your character is interesting.
I got a full 50 character, economy is broken, crafting/gathering are useless, and there is no real endgame left to do.
Every other MMO you get 1 job, and hundreds of things to do.
Here I have 20 jobs (fight, craft, gatherer), and 1 day to play, monday, before everything goes on cooldown and there is nothing left.
Even FFXI had more endgame, with all the time it required to get to the cap.
Here you can make a 50 in 1 week (that's the time I took with my summoner), in 6 months people already got multiple 50s, not just one, and the relic is the most common weapon in the game, there is like nothing to do here.
I already told you why coil/extremes are useless, don't make me repeat. they are simply boring and not worth the effort if you can just obtain 90 gear by farming points without even focusing.
Have fun with your dailies, shiny huge rewards await you. -
03-13-2014, 01:00 AMNeroMaybe you should learn to read. You allready missunderstood the first Statement, where i did mention the graph being old. If your first language is not english, than that is totally fine, but then you may should not talk if you have a serious problem with reading comprehension.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azrael
Here; counterpart from FFXI:
http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/gui.../imgs/lv01.jpg
Quote:
The largest segment of characters has a main job level of 99, which accounts for 20 percent of the total populace. This is likely due to the ease of which characters can accrue experience points in Abyssea and Grounds of Valor. The next largest group is that of level 75 characters, who are probably relics left over from the level 75 cap era. Level-90 and level-95 characters come in at third and fourth respectively, following the same logic as their level-75 counterparts.
Interesting isn't it? Even after so many Years of FFXI, only 21% are sitting at Cap, so the Majority IS NOT at 99. Same goes for most MMO's but obviously common sense and knowledge about statistics are rare on this Forum.
Same goes for WoW... :rolleyes:
I said the % in the graph's hardly change, and not that they can't change. There is a huge difference between those 2 statements. So do you want me to link more Games to prove you wrong, or are you getting it?
Interesting.. so do i, economy helps every day to improve my gil, crafting gathering is fun and there is no real endgame except that Endgame you did not even participate in. Good call, so just that you are narrow-minded, does mean everyone have to be? And you are calling me a troll and failing... :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Azrael
I always read from you that there is nothing to do. Why don't you do Coil then? or Ex-Primals? Are you butthurt that you can't beat them or what is that ruckus about? You decided to not to coil or ex-primals, fine. Other people do obviously and while you don't care about it, other people do. fair enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azrael
Here exactly.. That is Y O U R fucking choice and NOONE have to share your opinion. If YOU feel that is pointless to you, that is fine like i've said, but seriously stop trying to stamp YOUR opinion onto other peoples faces. I do not share your opinion and do not have to. allagan Weapons are iLvL95 btw, if you still have not get that and T5 is needed to get into T6-T9, so even if you do not care about the rewards, at least why don't you get access ready for T6?Quote:
Originally Posted by Azrael
Thank you kindly, i am enjoying the Game and every Minute of it. :) Let aside that all Games are just pixels, you may should consider stop playing MMO's, if you want huge rewards for doing "nothing", but whining on the forums that you don't have anything to do, when you obviously have not done everything endgame-related yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azrael
He have not completed Coil Turn 2 and above and also not all Ex-Primals. May you should do some research before you talk. I had all Jobs at 50 as well at ARR Release? So what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fumijj_Gah
Why do you talk about Abyssea? I started in 2005, so what's your point? Are you dense or drunk? I said numerious times i quit during Wotg and started in 2005. So keep going with your crapyssea talk, because it has nothing to do with what i said. Just to make it clear, Release Date for my region ( EU )was end of 2004 and i started early 2005.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fumijj_Gah
EDIT:
Since that Nitpicker found "something"..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azrael
OH MY GOD.. quick.. WAAAAHMBULANCE, i had a typo there.. lol -
03-13-2014, 01:56 AMAzraelhttp://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/1367681/Quote:
Originally Posted by Nero
oh look, what are thouse gauntlets?
guess where they drop from:
http://xivdb.com/?item/3733/Allagan-Gloves-of-Casting
/goodbye -
03-15-2014, 09:31 PMDSXI agree that the end product is the fruit of the labor of many and not one person, yes it was a combination of management support and a team effort that brought forth the success that is FFXI. However it is a known fact that during FFXI heyday Mr.Tanaka had an iron fist over what goes on in the game and every aspect of it, it is known that he personally dictated how the game played and for that he was criticized especially by the players who wasn't happy about it. On the other hand for that very same reason he was praised by those who loved it and so he and his team achieved the most successful FF in SE history with the blessing of the management.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReplicaX
It is also known that the change in direction was nether Mr.Tanaka idea nor wish but the management orders and for that Mr.Tanaka does not get the blame of the direction change that was brought forth by the Abyssea ara and what followed it, for the fans did in fact see and experience themselves what Mr.Tanaka envisioned for the game and how he liked it to be played. I think it is understandable why the fans praise Mr.Tanaka for FFXI and never blame him for when the wind of change started whistling because it was clear what he liked the game to be and that the change was not what he wanted for the game.
The change of direction followed to the development of FFXIV ver1 and seeing as how Mr.Tanaka vision of what an MMORPG should be (completely at odds with what the management want) combined with the new direction the management dictated it is a known fact that this time Mr.Tanaka laid what the management wanted to the team and let them decide how the game will be based on the management plans not what he likes it to be. The management sadly did not give Mr.Tanaka and his team the time they needed to develop FFXIV forcing them to release it before it was completely and I'm sure you know how that ended up and as you have mentioned Mr.Tanaka got the blame for it sadly.
Although the direction of FFXIV ver2 is decided by the management but they also chose a producer that embrace it as what he thinks an MMORPG should be. I think it is not secret that Mr.Yoshida is a fan of this direction himself. The management chose the direction (and Mr.Yoshida agrees with it and embrace it) but it is a fact that Mr.Yoshida is the one that dictates what get implemented in the game and what game play and design aspects we get to experience in the end, and for that it is understandable that he gets the praise from those who liked it and also get heavily criticized by those who didn't and none of them focus on the team. The team developing the game (and deserve their due for their hard work by the way) but Mr.Yoshida is the one choosing what goes on so he get praise/blamed for it.
I guess the game can bore even you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Velhart
Gamers knew it was a genre named MMORPG. People who did not have any knowledge of gaming outside of pong and solitaire doesn't exactly count when checking if a genre exist or not. Fact of the matter is the genre was known and thriving whether the uninformed about gaming knew about it or not. If someone (doesn't matter if this someone is majority or minority) wasn't aware of something (which others indulged in and enjoying for years) it doesn't mean that this something doesn't exist. It just means that this particular someone was just ignorant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Velhart
Well you might have resorted to beating your head over and over with a rock but that does not mean that everyone else was doing the same. While you was beating your head over and over with a rock others elected to do other fun things in the meantime like for example craft something or do simple quests or travel to see places or mine or do some fishing or gathering or check on their mog house garden or socialize with your friends or plan out that event you want to do with your LS...etc etcQuote:
Originally Posted by Velhart
You could start seeking a party and start beating your head over and over with a rock while you are waiting until you get invited to a party but I assure you that many others have been doing other things and thus they enjoyed their time.
The minority granted SE the most successful game in their history with subs for over TEN years. It is crazy to not try to NOT try to cater to them and try to repeat that success. there was NOTHING "little" about that profit, in fact being the most successful game in HUGE company like SE means that the profit was HUGE. You just cant look at a big company then say their most profitable project in their history is "little" profit. It just defies logic and factually completely wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Velhart
More than likely staying around?
I'm sorry I don't see this new crowd beating the old one and staying for 10+ years.
They have a high standard to break and history tells us this new crowd failed every single game that tried to cater to them save for the game (wow) that brought them into the MMORPG genre to begin with. Trying to cater to them is a death wish. They need to prove they would stick with a game other than wow to begin with so you could then start arguing about how long they would stay, it's not even funny anymore that EVERY single game that caters to them end up being abandoned by them to die the most painful death.
It is the audience they catered to. No game is perfect and I think that it is a trend that MMORPGs doesn't launch with the best content but they rectify that over time which bring us to the audience. The old style audience known for sticking with the games long term giving it enough time to rectify the quality and quantity of its content and thus we had multiple games that stayed live for years. On the other hand the new audience that tend to leave every game that catered for them in short time (look at the grave yard of games that catered to them its sad really) which leaves no game alive to rectify neither their quality nor quantity of content but another tomb in the grave yard of greed that the new audience constructed for those that profit off them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Velhart
It depends on the circle of people you was around but you should always keep an open mind and remember that you not seeing something or experience it does not mean that it did not exist. I and many others saw the benefits of that leveling experience and they are a lot and vital for the game other aspects which is why see it as an important thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Velhart
You are missing a very important thing here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Velhart
Fact of the matter is that it is a proven fact that every single game that catered to this majority got abandoned by this majority before they could stand on their feat, that all those games left to rot in the dust and die the most horrible death, that number of tombs in that grave yard stands witness to this.
The minority on the other hand proved to be loyal and an audience that stick with you for years and years to come and in SE case this minority made them the most profitable game in their history.
So yes I would cater to the minority that will actually sub for 10+ years rather than the majority that will leave me dead in the dust in a year or two and thus it doesn't matter what this majority find fun but what that minority find fun because they are a proven profitable audience. In my example above by the way the mathematicians and physicist..etc etc are always the minority ;)
They are the ones that stick with the game for years to come. I wouldn't call the current FFXIV player base a loyal one until I see them stick here for years to come.Quote:
Originally Posted by Velhart
FFXI had a loyal base because they subbed for 10+ years because that's the kind of it catered to. FFXIV target audience that its catering to never subbed for long years and never was known for it (again save for the game that brought them in to the genre to begin with WoW) they left every other single game. I know people like to ignore seeing it happen a million times before and will only admit it after it actually happens to FFXIV. Honestly FFXIV has one thing though that none of the other games had that is a potential to keep at least some people around, it carries the prestigious name Final Fantasy :) -
03-15-2014, 10:21 PMAeryI'd actually like to comment on this and share my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiza
If baffles me why people always want to rush the leveling part and get to the endgame.
For me the leveling part is like a long amazing journey, during which i can always see, explore and experience new stuff.
Everything always feels new and shiny during that phase in my opinion. So exploring and experiencing new areas etc. in the leveling phase is actually one of the best things about games for me.
Now, that being said I'm probably kind of special. I leveled pretty much everything 50 in 1.0 and started a new char in 2.0 and leveled everything to 50 again.
Some probably call that masochistic, I don't mind grinding and i like grinding, so i guess my opinion isn't that common though.
As for the FFXI to FFXIV comparison.
Someone mentioned gear progression is completely different from FFXI.
FFXIV has a vertical progression and FFXI has a horizontal progression.
Because of that i don't think you can really compare content in FFXI to FFXIV.
The ammount of time you had to invest to get gear in FFXI was significantly higher. Content was meant to last a long time, so were the rewards.
In FFXIV the content probably feels a bit inferior (to me at least) because it isn't meant to last, one patch's content will be outdated in the next patch.
So I don't think in its current state it's going anywhere towards chains of promithia-like stuff.
But for all we know, they could entirely change the game when they raise the level cap and introduce horizontal gear progression.