DEV Team Please adjust ilvl requirement for The Lost City of Amdapor. Pharos all over

that is simply because they have already increased the cap. before we had a 450 myth cap it was 200 it would have taken 5months to gear 1 class in that time. so that is my point if we kept things like that and introduced a new tome that takes just as long it adds up over time. just two different tomes that aren't farmable would take nearly a year to go through and if you had 3 or 4. by the time you go to the end of the orignal grind you would have more grinds to go through you would always been locked outta content because of loot lock out issues not even issues with being a bad player.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

myth cap is just a way to prevent players from fully gearing and quiting.

keeping it after only keep players behind. if it takes months to gear out in i90 just so you can start turns 6-9 when turn 20 is already out you will never catch up and it will turn alot of players off simply because they have to go through all those grinds. from philo to myth to the new one and so on and so furth.

it will do nothing but scare players from wanting to play a game where 50% of the content is in accessible because they started later.

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Yeah, but as they are making it really easy to get full ilvl90, why make the new dungeons ilvl55 ? They might require higher ilvl than that for most people to complete it, but you should need ilvl90 to be able beat on of them, ilvl95 for the second and ilvl100 for the third (or something like that), and have the dungeons actually be challenging and giving some decent gear to wear before you gear up with tome armor or other stuff....

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Originally Posted by Garra

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Not sure I understand how syncing would make content any more skippable than it already is. There are already optional dungeons. That said, there is no reason they can't make any/all dungeons part of some quest chain down the line, much like they did with 2.1. All syncing would do is make the existing content not be faceroll easy when we have i9000 in two years.

As to story roulette, that's why I said increase rewards to stupid amounts. If the rewards aren't worth it, then don't do the story roulette. As it sits now, these are required to be completed by everyone at least once. I'd amend my idea to make it skippable only if all of those whose first time chose an option to skip scenes prior to entry, and vote-kick would have to be adjusted in some way. This would continue to incentivize those who have run it, to run it again, without new players being bullied into anything. (moot anyway, not like it would ever get implemented)

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Originally Posted by Craiger

Yeah, but as they are making it really easy to get full ilvl90, why make the new dungeons ilvl55 ? They might require higher ilvl than that for most people to complete it, but you should need ilvl90 to be able beat on of them, ilvl95 for the second and ilvl100 for the third (or something like that), and have the dungeons actually be challenging and giving some decent gear to wear before you gear up with tome armor or other stuff....

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They've said Coil is the destination for the most geared, high level players. You're suggesting only making content for those players? Or rather for those that have completed coil?

Complaining before the dungeon is even out and you can gauge the difficulty is pretty dumb.

Also, the average i55 group may not be able to clear the whole thing, but as long as they clear a single boss, they get gear that can improve the party for next attempt.

As so many others have said, if you don't want minimum requirement people in your group, use the party finder.

I also see plenty of people complain that the game is too easy, but present them with a challenge and they cry that it's too hard...

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Originally Posted by Craiger

Yeah, but as they are making it really easy to get full ilvl90, why make the new dungeons ilvl55 ? They might require higher ilvl than that for most people to complete it, but you should need ilvl90 to be able beat on of them, ilvl95 for the second and ilvl100 for the third (or something like that), and have the dungeons actually be challenging and giving some decent gear to wear before you gear up with tome armor or other stuff....

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I know this is referring to myth but Coil has an iLevel restriction, so you kinda need gear to get into it. Having an option to gain better gear while also farm tomes is nice. Also just because it is i55 doesn't mean jack shit.

While i90 is an absurd requirement, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect players to need a couple pieces of philosophy along with maybe some CT and crafted gear before beating these dungeons. You can get all that stuff really fast. i65~70 is the requirement on extreme primals and their numbers are tuned to be about right for that.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

is there something wrong with everyone getting to play the content?

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It was never a problem having stuff 'earned' and 'gated' before the 'gimme now' mentality sprung up.

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

While i90 is an absurd requirement, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect players to need a couple pieces of philosophy along with maybe some CT and crafted gear before beating these dungeons. You can get all that stuff really fast. i65~70 is the requirement on extreme primals and their numbers are tuned to be about right for that.

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Not even absurd - We're slowly inching the 1 year mark of the game, it's more than reasonable to expect by now people are at least i85 if they didn't slack.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

is there something wrong with everyone getting to play the content? there will always be the hardest content that keeps people out but when the newest comes out it will be made more accessible for others to play.

and that is how se wants it there is nothing wrong with this.

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Philosophy is showered upon players. Getting full darklight takes maybe a day. I got full Darklight for every class by simply doing CT weekly and I don't even play a majority of them.

Another ilvl55 dungeon means the rewards will be pathetic AK gear yet again. People will run this dungeon once for the clear and avoid it at all costs, just like Pharos Sirius.

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Not even absurd - We're slowly inching the 1 year mark of the game, it's more than reasonable to expect by now people are at least i85 if they didn't slack.

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While that's true, i90 is still absurd for a dungeon entry requirement right now. i90 is way overkill for Coil 1-5 and is arguably sub-optimal for some classes because of materia melded accessories.

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As so many others have said, if you don't want minimum requirement people in your group, use the party finder.

I also see plenty of people complain that the game is too easy, but present them with a challenge and they cry that it's too hard...

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Something a lot of people are complaining about is that if the dungeon only requires i55 then it will be too easy.

All ilevel requirements need to be about 5-10 levels higher.

Having the ilevel be so low just encourages laziness by sending the wrong message. Players just hitting 50 should not be queuing for "the hardest dungeon" despite meeting Square's silly ilevel requirement. They should not be lazy and spend time acquiring Darklight, Mythology and Crystal Tower gear.

I know Square is just trying to make the new content more accessible but they're giving fresh 50s the wrong message. Once you hit endgame, it's not okay to wear low level stuff and expect players to want to play with you.

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

While i90 is an absurd requirement, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect players to need a couple pieces of philosophy along with maybe some CT and crafted gear before beating these dungeons. You can get all that stuff really fast. i65~70 is the requirement on extreme primals and their numbers are tuned to be about right for that.

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Having that requirement would imply difficulty on par with w/ extreme primals. While I don't think it is a bad idea to have dungeons that are that difficult (I actually look forward to that) the jump might be a little premature compared to the existing dungeons. Again, we are talking minimum requirement here, meaning a group of GOOD players could complete it at that iLvL with some practice.

Have you seen a group of i65~70 complete extreme primals? If so, have you seen a group do so without having done so at a higher iLvL first?

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

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Fresh 50's aren't going to be able to jump right into i55 dungeons, unless they buy crafted stuff that is higher than i50. Using AF and GC weapons gets you an average of i51-i52 on the left side (minus belt). Accessories will more than likely bring that down, doubt fresh 50s are buying higher than i55 accessories.

I haven't seen a group complete extremes for the first time in that level of gear, no. I think part of the reason for that is that you spend so little time in that gear level range, though. I think the difficulty level would be about right if a group of 4 pretty good players in full Darklight with maybe relics/titan weapons needed to spend a little bit of time (talking like 2~3 runs, so a few hours when going in 100% blind) actually learning the dungeon. Mythology is being unlocked in 2.2 and so is Coil 1-5, so I don't even think Darklight will really be a thing in 2.2. We've also been at ~i55 four man dungeons since the game came out, so it'd be cool to see them get harder.

Why cant people just shut up and enjoy the game? For once, just enjoy the content for what it is and stop worrying about what someone else is wearing or how much more efficient you are at killing things than they are. The gear requirement is what it is for a reason, it wasnt some random number SE pulled out of a hat to set as the minimum. Its just unbelievable how some people think they know more about whats required to clear the content than SE does ... untried and unreleased content no less.

Its not the same thing all over again.

The difference between PS, HM (hard), CM (hard) and new Amdapor, and 2 new hard modes is. The later will drop the new tombs. Now everyone will want to be running these because they want the new tombs. The whole reason PS and other 2.1 dungeons didn't work is because they offered no better rewards, WP/AK were still easier still gave myth although less however you could finish much faster.

Come 2.2 everyone except new players will be doing the 3 new dungeons to cap their new tombs for the new AF2 gear.

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

I haven't seen a group complete extremes for the first time in that level of gear, no. I think part of the reason for that is that you spend so little time in that gear level range, though. I think the difficulty level would be about right if a group of 4 pretty good players in full Darklight with maybe relics/titan weapons needed to spend a little bit of time (talking like 2~3 runs, so a few hours when going in 100% blind) actually learning the dungeon. Mythology is being unlocked in 2.2 and so is Coil 1-5, so I don't even think Darklight will really be a thing in 2.2. We've also been at ~i55 four man dungeons since the game came out, so it'd be cool to see them get harder.

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I suspect that something close to this will be the practical requirement for an average DF group to actually feel like they had a good run through these dungeons.

Darklight will probably still fill gaps for secondary classes, and new characters because you will get it faster than you will get myth, (100 philo/30 or 40 myth) or even drops from the new dungeons (which I'm guessing is going to drop something in the i65-i75 range). Fresh 50s definitely wont be jumping right into coil to get i90 stuff there, and I doubt many new players are even jumping right into CT without running something else at least once first.

I for one am looking forward to how these are going to play out.

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Originally Posted by CHunterX

Philosophy is showered upon players. Getting full darklight takes maybe a day. I got full Darklight for every class by simply doing CT weekly and I don't even play a majority of them.

Another ilvl55 dungeon means the rewards will be pathetic AK gear yet again. People will run this dungeon once for the clear and avoid it at all costs, just like Pharos Sirius.

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Getting full darklight requires around 5000 philo, which means 25 CT runs. Unless you get really lucky with your groups, that's not something you do in one day.

Pharos Sirius is i49 and drops i60 gear.
LCoA is i55 for entry and we DO NOT know what gear will drop from it yet. Could be as high as i80-i85 considering even CT drop i80 while requiring i50 for entry.

And people avoid Pharos Sirius because they're idiots that refuse to follow mechanics and just want to zerg everything.

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

Something a lot of people are complaining about is that if the dungeon only requires i55 then it will be too easy.

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And yet, Pharos Sirius that only requires i49 is complained about that it's TOO HARD. Even people with high i average complain...

ilvl 55-70 is from old dungeons and DL gear

ilvl 80 > CT

ilvl 90 tomes, extremes and Coil 1-5

i dont care if the 4 man is easy or hard , but im sure wont drop ilvl 90 gear ,what its the purpouse of the new dungeon? (other than new content and for fun once >.>)

I'm really not a fan of only the new dungeons dropping the new currency. That means our endgame shrinks with a patch. Currently we have AK, WP, HMHM, CMHM, PS, Coil, and Primals to get mythology. In 2.2 we will have... Amdapor, the two new hardmodes, the new turns of Coil, and Leviathan. From 12 options down to 5. Viable endgame content shouldn't shrink with a new patch. >_>;

from the look at the dungeon minimum ilvl it look like it will drop i70 - 75 loot

i think the new dungeon will drop darklight gear and the philo tomes will be phased out =).

Anyway P.S isnt hard. Just watch the video once and u can clear it. people who complain that it is hard just don't bother to watch it.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

Higher Item level requirements on new dungeons

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I agree with you 100%. Item level should be higher not only to help create some ease on badly geared players making things harder then need be, but to force players to learn and grow more before allowing them to tackle more content.

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Originally Posted by Aujo

i think the new dungeon will drop darklight gear and the philo tomes will be phased out =).

Anyway P.S isnt hard. Just watch the video once and u can clear it. people who complain that it is hard just don't bother to watch it.

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no, just no. If you think philo tomes will be phased out, then you haven't been paing attention to the game and understood that there is more then darklight gear that can be bought with philo tomes.

Also, just watching a video doesn't give you the skill to handle things, it does nothing more then show you what you should be expecting. please take into consideration that not all players are the same, and everyone learns in different ways.

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

i dont care if the 4 man is easy or hard , but im sure wont drop ilvl 90 gear ,what its the purpouse of the new dungeon? (other than new content and for fun once >.>)

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Drops the new tomes which are exchanged for ilvl 100-110+ gear.

maybe philotomes still drops but new dungeon drops ilvl 70 gears haha. or maybe ct gears. more options to get to i80 i guess.

yea maybe for ps watching the video once is enough for me as a healer. maybe u need to watch more if u are a dps or tank. haha

We dont even have the dungeon yet.

Already people are gettin MAD.

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Originally Posted by Dashuto

We dont even have the dungeon yet.

Already people are gettin MAD.

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To be fair it's 4 man, so we already know it's going to be terrible even design wise out of the gate as it's balanced around 4 man.

ilvl too low, which indicates that difficulty and rewards aren't as proportionate (ala Pharos Sirius). I will await the patch note day and complain some more.

I'm hoping that more endgame players voice their concern as well regarding how the development of this game is going. At least on this forum, I see the general consensus had always been MORE FUN AND REWARDING CHALLENGING CONTENTS. Which is simple to say but difficult to grasp. Still, in no way am I pleased that new dungeons are designed for fresh lvl50 players than the loyal regulars that's been sitting here for 6 months supporting this game and SE with much trust and faith.

Sad to say that the trust is slowly going down the drain.

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Originally Posted by Dashuto

We dont even have the dungeon yet.

Already people are gettin MAD.

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I don't think people are understanding the concept of ilvl on content and that's why. A higher ilvl doesn't necessarily mean a harder difficulty, The same with a lower ilvl doesn't mean it is easier. It should be like this, but it isn't. It should be there to say "You're not geared enough for this content, please obtain some better gear from other dungeons".

ilvl requirements should be based on the end rewards, The greater the rewards (ilvl Gear/Tomes) then the higher the ilvl and difficulty should be. I'm not saying that our grinding dungeons for Tomes should be so hard that it takes 45-60mins to clear with skilled players, No one wants that because its grinding and time consuming. But at the same time players should have to build up, not just fresh 50 gear to end game gear in a few days. Yes, I understand the point that its like this for casual players, But SE is making things obsolete in the process. Stricter ilvl requirements on content would stop that.

Let's say I start playing this game takes me a few weeks to hit 50, And that all content has a higher ilvl. That just mean I have to spend a little bit more time gearing up to reach the new end game. It shouldn't matter if it takes a few extra days or weeks to gear up. At least that way it gives a player more time to learn their job, Cause running around spamming AoE's in fates aren't cutting it.

It's to late to change current dungeons, But in the future I would like to see ilvl requirements be stricter on new content. Good example CoB T6-T9 should be ilvl90, Sound to restrictive? Shouldn't be Myth Cap and Coils lockouts are gone in 2.2. Sure most everyone who will be doing new CoB will be ilvl90 anyways.

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Originally Posted by Namasu

ilvl too low, which indicates that difficulty and rewards aren't as proportionate (ala Pharos Sirius). I will await the patch note day and complain some more.

I'm hoping that more endgame players voice their concern as well regarding how the development of this game is going. At least on this forum, I see the general consensus had always been MORE FUN AND REWARDING CHALLENGING CONTENTS. Which is simple to say but difficult to grasp. Still, in no way am I pleased that new dungeons are designed for fresh lvl50 players than the loyal regulars that's been sitting here for 6 months supporting this game and SE with much trust and faith.

Sad to say that the trust is slowly going down the drain.

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iLvl for Labyrinth of the Ancients is 50 and drop 80 gear...

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Originally Posted by Namasu

ilvl too low, which indicates that difficulty and rewards aren't as proportionate (ala Pharos Sirius). I will await the patch note day and complain some more.

I'm hoping that more endgame players voice their concern as well regarding how the development of this game is going. At least on this forum, I see the general consensus had always been MORE FUN AND REWARDING CHALLENGING CONTENTS. Which is simple to say but difficult to grasp. Still, in no way am I pleased that new dungeons are designed for fresh lvl50 players than the loyal regulars that's been sitting here for 6 months supporting this game and SE with much trust and faith.

Sad to say that the trust is slowly going down the drain.

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maybe it's because people are tired of that mind set? players should be screwed over because they started later? good one.

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Originally Posted by Aujo

maybe philotomes still drops but new dungeon drops ilvl 70 gears haha. or maybe ct gears. more options to get to i80 i guess.

yea maybe for ps watching the video once is enough for me as a healer. maybe u need to watch more if u are a dps or tank. haha

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I love the video argument, like virtual experience means anything. You know, there isn't a single profession where watching a video counts as experience. Airlines require pilots to have hundreds of flight hours, real flight hours flying real planes, before they will even look at you. Not a single military organization trains soldiers through video games. A video doesn't show you how you will clear content, just how other people cleared content. A run, be it dungeon or primal, is an organic thing with the different people there with you changing how it plays out. This is why experience is better, you've seen the variations and can adjust accordingly in real time.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

maybe it's because people are tired of that mind set? players should be screwed over because they started later? good one.

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Explain to me how they are screwed when myth will be uncapped and they will be able to farm their way to ilvl90 without restriction as soon as they hit lvl50.

Once they do that then they're on the same playing field as everyone at the start of 2.2. What's screwing them over then?

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Originally Posted by Namasu

Explain to me how they are screwed when myth will be uncapped and they will be able to farm their way to ilvl90 without restriction as soon as they hit lvl50.

Once they do that then they're on the same playing field as everyone at the start of 2.2. What's screwing them over then?

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I believe that comment was made against people that WANT the game to screw over people that start later, and are AGAINST how the game actually works.

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Originally Posted by Namasu

loyal regulars that's been sitting here for 6 months supporting this game and SE with much trust and faith.

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sorry i wasn't reply to the whole thing just this comment.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

maybe it's because people are tired of that mind set? players should be screwed over because they started later? good one.

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

I believe that comment was made against people that WANT the game to screw over people that start later, and are AGAINST how the game actually works.

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How does anyone get screwed over if they start late? Because they can't hit level 50 and 10 mins later start farming the highest End Game content available at that time?

Higher ilvl requirements are only going to stop a new player for a few days a week at the most. If someone can't be bothered to spam a few dungeons to get Gear and Tomes to increase their ilvl to do another dungeon then something is wrong. Its not like getting higher ilvl gear is extremely hard to obtain. You're a fresh 50 buy some ilvl70 gear off the MB, Do Crystal Tower, Spam AK/WP for Phil/Myth Tomes.

Why Do people think gearing in this game is hard? Everything is handed to us, You just have to put in the time.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

How does anyone get screwed over if they start late? Because they can't hit level 50 and 10 mins later start farming the highest End Game content available at that time?

Higher ilvl requirements are only going to stop a new player for a few days a week at the most. If someone can't be bothered to spam a few dungeons to get Gear and Tomes to increase their ilvl to do another dungeon then something is wrong. Its not like getting higher ilvl gear is extremely hard to obtain. You're a fresh 50 buy some ilvl70 gear off the MB, Do Crystal Tower, Spam AK/WP for Phil/Myth Tomes.

Why Do people think gearing in this game is hard? Everything is handed to us, You just have to put in the time.

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you seem to have missed my post after that one.

my comment was about her saying someone playing for 6months deserves more then someone who just started. and i feel that is wrong how are you supose to get new players if you ignore them till they become as loyal as others? now i am not saying being loyal means nothing i am just saying someone who has played 6 months is not more important then someone who just started because they can be loyal too, just they started later.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

my comment was about her saying someone playing for 6months deserves more then someone who just started. and i feel that is wrong how are you supose to get new players if you ignore them till they become as loyal as others?

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Except for that's not deserving more o_O and new players aren't getting ignored since they have a ton of content to do.

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Originally Posted by Doo

Except for that's not deserving more o_O and new players aren't getting ignored since they have a ton of content to do.

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oh no i wasn't talking about this situation specifically. i just meant that mentality.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

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You're right a customer is a customer.

But I feel like someone who just starts the game, shouldn't have everything handed to them and play catch up in a few days. Where as it took many of us the last 6 months.

My take on ilvl is that players should have to progress and having higher ilvls on content will do just that. Higher ilvls on content forces players to gear and not bypass certain gear sets and make it obsolete. It doesn't stop anyone for long, it just slows them down. Like I said they can't go back and change the ilvl for current content, But they can apply higher requirements to future content.

New players have it so easy. Everyone already made videos for them (haha). Seriously they do especially when 2.2 hits. I really think that goes for all future players after 2.2, If you think about it every 6 months or every other patch weekly lockouts are removed assuming they follow 2.2. That mean the 2nd best gear(new patch better gear) is that much easier to obtain. So if you are a new player you can climb the ilvl ladder fast and with very little effort. So what is going to take most of us months to do they can do in a week.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

oh no i wasn't talking about this situation specifically. i just meant that mentality.

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Understandable but you gotta realize it's more realistic that most players, even the bleeding edge end game players, care about the game development overall. There's very little people that have the mentality of shutting out newbies without giving them a rope to catch up. From what I've seen, the rope is there, they just gotta start pulling to catch up. SE does not need to hand out more ropes but start making interesting stuffs that is worth it once you finish climbing.