This game isn't for hardcore players

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Originally Posted by Ptolemy

I'll stop asking when the people who "want to have fun" stop MMO hopping from game to game looking for the next WoW while destroying any game that tries to appeal to them on the way



pretty sure then everyone will be happy when that happens :o

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Stop destroying the games by adding mindless grinding and time sinks in the name of Challenge. Also, stop destroying MMO community's.

Don't even say hardcore stimulate the community. Yall have your own circle jerk clique with the exclusive "Casuals need not apply." mentality.

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Originally Posted by Delsai

Stop destroying the games by adding mindless grinding and time sinks in the name of Challenge. Also, stop destroying MMO community's.

Don't even say hardcore stimulate the community. Yall have your own circle jerk clique with the exclusive "Casuals need not apply." mentality.

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Now were back to where we started <3 fun isn't it?



Hamster

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Originally Posted by Akiza

cause I clear them in 1 day I pay the monthly fee and square should be pumping out 10 yrs worth of content every 3 months.

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you cant release content in every 3 months that would let you play half a year to complete it... programming content in 3 months? seriously?

This is more what an addon can do.


And i think they are already working on an addon to introduce the City Ishgard and the whole conflict around the dragons, new classes etc. (Yoshi P. said that they want to introduce that with a real addon)
An addon is what you are looking for..

but content updates can never be that huge like an addon.


i dont know what you are expecting. of course you can run the dungeons in one day.. but can you really have all these items in one day for all your classes? no you cant... stop to be childish..

On a more serious note: We should start scrapping the word "hardcore" from our day to day vocab. It seems to give a positive tone to what is arguably a negative thing. You don't see an alcoholic or a drug addict and say: wow, he's so hardcore, nice; though (obviously) the comparisons are at different levels of addiction, the basics are that (many times, not always) the lifestyle many of these people live is mediocre at best. It will really suck when you get old, look back at what your life's been and have nothing to show for it, especially in MMORPGs, where it's completely lights off once it's servers are shut down.
Everyone has a brain and makes decisions for themselves, hopefully, just sometimes we all need a little push to get us started. :)

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Originally Posted by BloodPact

On a more serious note: We should start scrapping the word "hardcore" from our day to day vocab. It seems to give a positive tone to what is arguably a negative thing. You don't see an alcoholic or a drug addict and say: wow, he's so hardcore, nice; though (obviously) the comparisons are at different levels of addiction, the basics are that (many times, not always) the lifestyle many of these people live is mediocre at best.It will really suck when you get old, look back at what your life's been and have nothing to show for it, especially in MMORPGs, where it's completely lights off once it's servers are shut down.
Everyone has a brain and makes decisions for themselves, hopefully, just sometimes we all need a little push to get us started. :)

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Really? 10 chara


what you said is almost amazing lol people really must be anti-social nowadays

For me the Solution is.

Adding content for Casuals, Dedicated players and hardcore. in the moment i add content for Only one public im making a great mistake =/.

8 Man Raids for casuals. Without masturbatory 1 Shots mechanisms like Titan. This content Ilv 83 - 86. All our casual guys can enjoy this content, with family, friends keep a decent "iLv". Easy drop rates as starting end game gear.

16 Man Raids for Dedicated players, Small and medium Size Free companies can enjoy this content ilv90 - 92. Medium Drop rate for a moderate grind

24 man Raids. For Hardcores and End Game Free companies. Ilv 95 - 100. Small Drop rates and good grind system.

Having variety for all publics is the more appropriate

I want to grind in a pretty game!

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Originally Posted by CrAZYVIC

For me the Solution is.

Adding content for Casuals, Dedicated players and hardcore. in the moment i add content for Only one public im making a great mistake =/.

8 Man Raids for casuals. Without masturbatory 1 Shots mechanisms like Titan. This content Ilv 83 - 86. All our casual guys can enjoy this content, with family, friends keep a decent "iLv". Easy drop rates as starting end game gear.

16 Man Raids for Dedicated players, Small and medium Size Free companies can enjoy this content ilv90 - 92. Medium Drop rate for a moderate grind

24 man Raids. For Hardcores and End Game Free companies. Ilv 95 - 100. Small Drop rates and good grind system.

Having variety for all publics is the more appropriate

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and what is coil to you? casual?!

and the higher the ilevel the more hardcore it is? where are you living in?

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Originally Posted by BloodPact

On a more serious note: We should start scrapping the word "hardcore" from our day to day vocab.

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I heard the new word(s) for it is content locusts. There will NEVER be enough content for some people (particularly the folks complaining about lack of content who come on just Monday to cap and do every lockout). When you have people playing a game 8+ hours a day, every day of the week, you have to think about where are the devs making content 8 hours a day, every day of the week. They don't exist. I think they have had to start making content for release 10 years ago to be able to actually have more content than some of these hardcore content locusts can consume.

I play quite alot, but I haven't seen and done all there is to do. I'm happy with what is available but there could be more things to do of course but I'm not about to have a stroke because the devs aren't working 24/7 to match some peoples 24/7 game play.

Some people just can't be satisfied. At any rate, like someone else mentioned.. even if they do add a ton of new stuff (not the 10 years worth they are dreaming about), they'll blow through it in a month or so and be back to stroking out about lack of things to do. Rinse and repeat. I don't see what the rush is. Being first? Half the time no one even knows who you (we) are, except maybe people on your friends list, and FC mates. To stand around in leet gears? You, me and all the other CLONES at Rev's toll (Clone Troll).

I realized early on that rushing was pointless, but I guess some people feel the need for it more than others even if there isn't really a cookie and a applause waiting at the end. Just no content.

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Originally Posted by XiaoliVorgan

...they'll blow through it in a month or so and be back to stroking out about lack of things to do...

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They dev need to be smart about it, they need to add harder cotenet that these hardcore would have trouble defeating, something of Twintania level...

Then of course you the others who will complain its to hard for them to get the same gears hardcores have.


And it takes about 2-3 hrs to finish everything on Monday... not 8+ hrs.... 2-3 hours a day is less than casual's playtime.

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Originally Posted by Ptolemy

I'll stop asking when the people who "want to have fun" stop MMO hopping from game to game looking for the next WoW while destroying any game that tries to appeal to them on the way

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People stop playing games when they're no longer fun. That has nothing to do with players ruining games, it's to do with the fact that the game lacks retention in the first place. You get on the themepark ride, and then stop playing when you've exhausted content, or just stop playing because the grindathon to get to the next bit of content is just not worth it. Unlocking things and playing through the story is fun, but people move on because they're looking for new experiences.

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Originally Posted by Rissy

I don't think anyone wants to be a hardcore player.

A lot of whining for hardcore MMORPGs is just whining for massive time sinks everywhere, rather than any increase in difficulty. And I get that some people want to feel special for wasting more time on a game than others, but you get a much larger audience catering to all the people with an actual life. I mean, it doesn't make for the most interesting kind of game, but a lot of the time sinks people lust after aren't actually that much more interesting either, they just have the psychological effect of feeling more rewarding to those with the time to waste on them. If you don't have the time to waste on massive time sinks, it's a complete turn off

I do want to see more MMO sandbox games, but a good sandbox MMO is all players and action. There's no place for a plot and scripted quests, it's all players shaping the environment and forming their own legacy

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See this is where you're wrong , and this is the problem with making sweeping generalizations. There are plenty of us who want to time syncs. There are plenty of us who want long engaging quests (the ones you call grinds) for a unique reward at the end. As it stands right now there is nothing to strive for, nothing that set you apart from your peers just log in cap myth and get rewarded. I'd like to see unique and engaging content that rewards players who choose to put the "grind" in, right now it's fate grind or dungeon crawl and that's it.

I see people saying there is plenty to do, level fishing! Then what? Level fishing and now we have 50 fishing, what's the point? There is nothing like the lu shang rod quest http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Th...he_Competition from final fantasy 11 or the ebisu rod quest http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Indomitable_Spirit to keep you entertained once you reach 50 fishing. Want to sell your fish on the AH? Good luck with that. Same can be said for pretty much anything. Crafting? Sure let me craft the same thing everyone else is list it on the AH to get undercut 30 seconds later. No desirable unique item's to be crafted, no unique recipes, nothing to do but churn out the same items that everyone else is. Yeah I realize they don't want to put in items/quests/gear that will make the people who can only play an hour a two a night or week into the game, but until they do this they'll continue to see people log in, cap tomes and log out.

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Originally Posted by Synapse

They dev need to be smart about it, they need to add harder cotenet that these hardcore would have trouble defeating, something of Twintania level...

Then of course you the others who will complain its to hard for them to get the same gears hardcores have.


And it takes about 2-3 hrs to finish everything on Monday... not 8+ hrs.... 2-3 hours a day is less than casual's playtime.

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In the beginning at launch, content locusts were the type to play 8+ hours a day, maybe even more. It's becomes 2-3 hours a day after everything has been consumed and lockouts are all that stand in their way. I'd be willing to wager once the cap is removed and/or the new tomes are introduced, the same 8 hour grind will start back up to cap at 2000 as fast as possible, gearing every job in i90 gear as fast as possible until once again arriving at Mondays 2-3 hours a few months later.

The devs went about it the right way I suspect. I'm pretty sure just any old joe can't go into Twin and beat it. In fact, I'm pretty sure there are alot of people who still can't beat it. I haven't even seen it yet. Only time I ever complained about a dungeon was back before they had tweaked the servers and lag was hitting at random and lag is a red circles bestfriend.

How quickly do people forget that they PLAYED for their gear to be able to MAKE things like twintania and the extremes not so difficult. How quickly do people forget once they've gotten full i90, things won't be as DIFFICULT as it was when they were gearing up. It's like gearing up all the way erases their memory of how it was before they even got geared. Every player does not take the same route in gearing.

It's like taking a full i90 group into titan hardmode. You could probably beat it with a eyepatch, drunk, in the dark while changing a babies diaper.

Most of the time though, you're going to find people with a mix of i70 doing titan hardmode, it's not as easy for those people as the first group. The majority of the playerbase is not in full i90 with a mind erase.

Hell I remember when I was trying to do AK... OMG.. I thought it was the hardest thing ever (the firggan wall). (this was before I started doing primals HMs and coil of course). People would say "Lets do AK" and I'd be like "Erm.. I gotta get a root canal, see ya later!" lol I didnt have much gear and AK was just.... well anyway my point is.. Now, if I go in there with my whm, i86.. I can do it half asleep. Thats not the devs fault. Its not anyones fault. It's just naturally easier the more gear you obtain and the more times you have done it, you remember what to do.

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Originally Posted by Rissy

People stop playing games when they're no longer fun. That has nothing to do with players ruining games, it's to do with the fact that the game lacks retention in the first place. You get on the themepark ride, and then stop playing when you've exhausted content, or just stop playing because the grindathon to get to the next bit of content is just not worth it. Unlocking things and playing through the story is fun, but people move on because they're looking for new experiences.

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XIV proves the first part wrong, that has alot more power then they think.

People want fun and they also want retention without the "time requirement" (i.e prolonged content, "XI type" gear progression (waiting for a monster drop) etc.) they can't have both, which is why many MMOs fail (not really fail, just doesn't see much success)

that is why they MMO-hop to the next "popular" release, push for changes (if it isn't the type of game they like), and leave when it fails to meet their standards


Casuals are the playerbase companies want because of the "popularity" boom of the genre WoW caused, they aren't a bad thing but the need to cater to every whim they have is, We can have a balance (Horizontal progression can bring it (What XIV originally was, just need to add modern tools (Duty finder etc.), the majority (the "standard mmo" BS crowd) would rather see the powerstruggle between casual & hardcore

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Originally Posted by Nadrojj

See this is where you're wrong...

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Where is the part where I'm wrong? You didn't address anything I said. I never said there wasn't some people who like time sinks and I never said FFXIV was interesting in the state that it's in.

FFXIV:ARR was designed to attract casual players with a life, you can't reward the minority who desire massive time sinks, because then people are EXPECTED to participate in that massive time sink because no one wants players without that piece of gear. If you alienate players with less time to play, you're left with a much smaller market, and MMORPGs are expected to make money.

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Originally Posted by Ptolemy

XIV proves the first part wrong, that has alot more power then they think.

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In case you missed the pluralisation, I was talking about games in general, in reply to your ridiculous hyperbole claiming that casual players ruin games by having a life and not being obsessed. I play FFXIV:ARR for the aesthetic and community and just play it casually because that's the way it's meant to be played. You're playing the wrong game if you want to waste all your time grinding. Time sinks don't correlate with retention, people will leave mid game if they're bored of grinding. This game was made for people with a lack of time to play.

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Originally Posted by Ptolemy

Casuals are the playerbase companies want because of the "popularity" boom of the genre WoW caused, they aren't a bad thing but the need to cater to every whim they have is, We can have a balance (Horizontal progression can bring it (What XIV originally was, just need to add modern tools (Duty finder etc.), the majority (the "standard mmo" BS crowd) would rather see the powerstruggle between casual & hardcore

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Companies want casual players because there is a hell of a lot more market catering to people with a life. There isn't really a balance because people with more time to play games expect everyone else to keep up with them. You add horizontal progression and people will shun those with the lack of horizontal progression they desire for optimal strategy. You need to seek out games that aim to be time-consuming sandbox MMOs from the start. Grinding is a hell of a lot more rewarding when your grinding is the building blocks of a player developed society.

Truth for many Lumiin. Sadly.

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Originally Posted by Rissy

Snip

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MMOs are designed to make money. True.
-The only theme part mmo to do well over the long term is WoW. "0" of the over 2 dozen theme park mmos designed like that have survived as p2p and with more then 20% of thier playerbase past the 2yr mark. (So the model of making everything for casuals historically has lost company massive amount of money)

Time sinks do not keep people playing. False statement.
- Time sinks (long term goals) keep the hardcores playing. Casual do not like them because they cannot dedicate the amount of time to compete with the hardcores. It is the carrot on a stick it is what will keep the whole playerbase playing. So without them SE is garenteed to lose the minority (~20% of the mmo base, Nearly 50% of the base of XI's last mmo). So pushing hardcores away SE will lost 100k-200k people who would of stayed with the game for 6+yrs. Not a logical move. The vast majorityt of people quitting now... the already 500k+ people who quit this game. Ask them, most of the FF fans are quitting because the game has a MASSIVE lack of content due to the carrot and no stick syndrom.
-Remember hardcores are the ones who will stay with 1 mmo for decades... the casuals jump ship. You need casual content, but you need hardcore as well. This game will go to an early grave with ultra casual only content. Look at SWToR and Rift.

It makes sense to target the largest area of the pie. The lets say 28million mmo players nearly 24million are casual.
So 120 mmo games going after 24million people = 200k per mmo
So 3 mmos games that have any content for hardcores that will satisify the 4million = 1.3 million

Which is better....

As for horizontal progression... Your comments shows you have never played a game with it before. In EQ and XI the 2 games with the most Horizontal progression in the genre you never got shunned for missing a perfect piece. Honestly you are shunned alot less then the I89+ ONLY OR GTFO crap we have in XIV now.


People need to wake up. The casual movement is why almost every single mmo has failed. It should be an eye opener. How many mmo must fail before people and devs realize it.

You know what will happen. I am putting money on it. When this ESO, Wildstar, Archage, and EQN release and this game drops below 150k subs. We will hear the "Now players can enjoy XIV:ARR for FREE, Come back and celebrate XIV:F2P and Enjoy Eorzea on your terms" And we will get so much BS like comes from SoE where P2P is unsustainable when in reality it is just caused by garbage game design and attempting to force people to play for limited/non-existant content. People will be able to get more then just fant. pots in the mog station then.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

MMOs are designed to make money. True.
-The only theme part mmo to do well over the long term is WoW. "0" of the over 2 dozen theme park mmos designed like that have survived as p2p and with more then 20% of thier playerbase past the 2yr mark. (So the model of making everything for casuals historically has lost company massive amount of money)

Time sinks do not keep people playing. False statement.
- Time sinks (long term goals) keep the hardcores playing. Casual do not like them because they cannot dedicate the amount of time to compete with the hardcores. It is the carrot on a stick it is what will keep the whole playerbase playing. So without them SE is garenteed to lose the minority (~20% of the mmo base, Nearly 50% of the base of XI's last mmo). So pushing hardcores away SE will lost 100k-200k people who would of stayed with the game for 6+yrs. Not a logical move. The vast majorityt of people quitting now... the already 500k+ people who quit this game. Ask them, most of the FF fans are quitting because the game has a MASSIVE lack of content due to the carrot and no stick syndrom.
-Remember hardcores are the ones who will stay with 1 mmo for decades... the casuals jump ship. You need casual content, but you need hardcore as well. This game will go to an early grave with ultra casual only content. Look at SWToR and Rift.

It makes sense to target the largest area of the pie. The lets say 28million mmo players nearly 24million are casual.
So 120 mmo games going after 24million people = 200k per mmo
So 3 mmos games that have any content for hardcores that will satisify the 4million = 1.3 million

Which is better....

As for horizontal progression... Your comments shows you have never played a game with it before. In EQ and XI the 2 games with the most Horizontal progression in the genre you never got shunned for missing a perfect piece. Honestly you are shunned alot less then the I89+ ONLY OR GTFO crap we have in XIV now.


People need to wake up. The casual movement is why almost every single mmo has failed. It should be an eye opener. How many mmo must fail before people and devs realize it.

You know what will happen. I am putting money on it. When this ESO, Wildstar, Archage, and EQN release and this game drops below 150k subs. We will hear the "Now players can enjoy XIV:ARR for FREE, Come back and celebrate XIV:F2P and Enjoy Eorzea on your terms" And we will get so much BS like comes from SoE where P2P is unsustainable when in reality it is just caused by garbage game design and attempting to force people to play for limited/non-existant content. People will be able to get more then just fant. pots in the mog station then.

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How do you put money on it, I would like to put my money on something too is that possible

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

As for horizontal progression... Your comments shows you have never played a game with it before. In EQ and XI the 2 games with the most Horizontal progression in the genre you never got shunned for missing a perfect piece. Honestly you are shunned alot less then the I89+ ONLY OR GTFO crap we have in XIV now.

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I'm talking about this game right here, not EQ, not FFXI. What possible horizontal progression can you tack onto this game to satisfy content locusts without creating gear or skills that everyone in the upper tiers of end game aren't expected to have (or being too meaningless to be a proper incentive)? Square Enix aren't going to create 3.0 for the grind-loving players with too much time, anything you add is only going to be tacked on to what's already here, and this is a game designed for players with a lack of gaming time. There's lots of people who love games but haven't got enough time to play. Whatever they do, they don't want to chase away those people because that's the market they chose.

It's not a black and white of casual and hardcore in reality. The people staying are fans of the aesthetic, and probably have a good community that they play this game with. The "casual" players that leave had no intention on staying here in the first place, and were always planning to leave when they exhausted content or got stuck on a grind that just wasn't fun any more. Some of them are content leeches that no lifed to end-game, knowing all too well that end game is shallow in games like this. They just want to be the end game elites until the next game comes out to do it in.

You have too much esteem in publishers' desire for a good, long-lasting MMORPG. Games don't fail because they're pandering to the casual market. Developers are just creating casual MMORPGs in the first place and going free-to-play is usually in the publisher's plan. Going F2P isn't even the game failing, it's the management deciding it's time to milk the F2P market instead. RIFT is a bad example for your argument because Trion Worlds was the publisher AND developer, and they resisted F2P for a long time. They likely only went F2P because Defiance was such a failure, and that was a game trying something different. FFXI still has a subscription, even though it's casual mode now. I fully expect ESO, Wildstar and ArcheAge to beat FFXIV:ARR to F2P at the very least (and EQN is starting off F2P) and there's a chance Square Enix would rather shut down FFXIV than go F2P.

I actually do want to see more hardcore MMOs on the market, but I have no delusions that something like FFXIV:ARR will find success with more time sinks. Sandbox MMORPGs like EVE Online are the kind of games that do hardcore right, I don't see appeal in extra grinding in themepark MMORPGs. I just don't get why people join a game designed for people with limited play time and then cry that the game wasn't designed for people with lots of play time.

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Originally Posted by lxSch

they should probably try pvp, it's much harder than fighting a scripted npc (not even AI).

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For extra hardcore credit, they should play PVP as the healer :P

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Originally Posted by TeaTimeBear

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I think it's important for everyone to understand that hardcore players are not better than casual. Game is meant for fun, so it only matters if you get fun or not, thus the way of getting it (chatting or beating titan ex) is irrelevant. I would only understand rant if hardcore players cannot get fun in any other way - well, they should probably try pvp, it's much harder than fighting a scripted npc (not even AI).

Hardcore players want something long term to work towards. Not necessarily "harder" in terms of "skill", but more in patience and resilience.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Hardcore players want something long term to work towards. Not necessarily "harder" in terms of "skill", but more in patience and resilience.

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Agree with you. I kinda wish my myth tomes didn't cap so fast....and this coming from someone who despises grind/timesink qualities in games...

i think its funny people even use the term hardcore when referring to FFXIV. there is absolutely nothing hardcore about this game, like at all. the game has no consequences, no important choices, no real time sinks, no risk, and is pretty much as care bear as it gets. i think the people that try act as tho there is something hardcore about this game are either A. desperate for validation or B. never played an MMO that actually had hardcore content.

dying with out penalty, instant spawning at the raid entrance, no xp loss, static and forgiving encounters that can be memorized, arena based pvp... yup still not hardcore.

I think basically people are saying they want content that lasts longer, but just not through the cheap method of weekly lockouts. Weekly cap can be reached in 3-4 hrs? Well certainly, we can say this is too easy? too short? People want the opposite of this, and for some reason or another wish to place the label "hardcore" on it. I think this is probably incorrect though, as hardcore would suggest extremes, but I think it could be a LITTLE harder, time consuming to reach our weekly myth cap. As it stand myth cap is , what, 2 haukke hms 2 days a week, and 1 haukke hm the other days of the week. 15-30 mins a day. It would be a gross understatement to call this even casual...

Would be great if there was some meaningful use for philosophy tomes (and myth tomes in 2.2), so there would a point of running main scenario roulette. I use low level roulette and guildhest to lvl up alts, but main scenario is pointless. Also high level roulette caps in 4-5 days - reducing daily bonus myth would be nice.

In all honesty there is no game right now that truly satisfy the hardcore crowd. Every game no matter the difficulty the hardcore crowd will continue to moan and cry.

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Originally Posted by Delsai

In all honesty there is no game right now that truly satisfy the hardcore crowd. Every game no matter the difficulty the hardcore crowd will continue to moan and cry.

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That's because "Hardcore" MMO players don't actually know what they want. You can apply it to the MMO genre as a whole. If you take the average player and put something there that they genuinely find difficult and challenging there's always going to be someone who decries whatever MMO it is as being "Casual" (Casual has nothing to do with difficulty and instead means something people can jump in and have fun with because it's a video game not a job) You could, in the current market, put out something that makes a P.K. permadeath, zero-quest, >1% drop rate MMO and there will still be people sitting there complaining that it's casual friendly for any given reason.

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Originally Posted by chococo

The moment you step into collecting ilv90 items, you are in the treadmill. Unless you are to stick with your mog weapon and ilv90 in the future when the game updates to ilv150.

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Not really. Usually I manage to keep my gear level decent (for my purposes) without too much of a grind. Consider that I like doing 4-5 man dungeons, sometimes do them just for fun.

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Originally Posted by ReiszRie

or casuals can meant players who devotes most of their time to real-life responsibilities and are only able to game for a small number of hours a week.

I'd say I'm a casual and I have FF14 on auto-renewal, the monthly subscription isn't significant enough for me to actively unsubscribe and re-subscribe whenever i feel like or don't feel like playing, I just keep it subscribed perpetually and I don't have plans in the near future to stop subscribing.

On the other-hand, I don't have the time to devote to multiple MMOs, as such I tend not to switch around whenever a new game is out.

I'd like to see more non-combat based content though, alot of times I log in just to hang around and enjoy Eorzea and having non-combat content would perhaps rinforce the immersion of "living" in the world of Eorzea and partaking in activities the ordinary folks do.

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Yes! I'd like more non-combat content too, and more reasons to roam around in the open world. Leveling the gathering professions is terribly grindy, but at least it makes you travel! :)

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Originally Posted by Khavir

That's because "Hardcore" MMO players don't actually know what they want. You can apply it to the MMO genre as a whole. If you take the average player and put something there that they genuinely find difficult and challenging there's always going to be someone who decries whatever MMO it is as being "Casual" (Casual has nothing to do with difficulty and instead means something people can jump in and have fun with because it's a video game not a job) You could, in the current market, put out something that makes a P.K. permadeath, zero-quest, >1% drop rate MMO and there will still be people sitting there complaining that it's casual friendly for any given reason.

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I agree 111%!

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Originally Posted by Rissy

Snip

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re·ten·tion
riˈtenCHən/Submit
noun
1.
the continued possession, use, or control of something.
"the retention of direct control by central government"

All i have left to add, you proved my opinion otherwise

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Originally Posted by Ptolemy

All i have left to add, you proved my opinion otherwise

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opinion
əˈpɪnjən
noun
1.
a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
"that, in my opinion, is right"

Isn't this a bit childish? I mean, silly retorts like this are fun, but not really compelling if you're trying to be serious.

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Originally Posted by Theonekitten

Threads like this should be telling SE something. If they keep appearing, maybe someone needs to really look at why they are popping up so much and maybe speak on the issue instead of refusing to respond and just deleting the thread?? That will be the only way to stop the noise. The crowds will only yell out louder until they are heard. :P

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Threads like this only tell SE that they're running an MMO. The doom and gloom IT'S TOO EASY TO LIVE has been in every post EQ MMO i've played or seen. (Realistically it was probably only not in because there was no good base to compare it against)

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Originally Posted by Stormblossom

Threads like this only tell SE that they're running an MMO. The doom and gloom IT'S TOO EASY TO LIVE has been in every post EQ MMO i've played or seen. (Realistically it was probably only not in because there was no good base to compare it against)

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See, that's where I disagree with you and that's what makes good debate. :) People complain for alot of things, yes, I've played MMOs for a looong time so no matter what is done, there will be complaints. But when an issue continues to show itself with no kind of acknowledgement from the developers (SE), then expect it to continue to reappear over and over. It's like a festering wound, ignore it and it will only continue to infect and spread to others. I've noticed more and more of these threads showing up in the forums. That was the point I was trying to make. I've worked in customer support for a long time, sometimes people just want to know they are being heard. :)

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Originally Posted by Rissy

opinion
əˈpɪnjən
noun
1.
a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
"that, in my opinion, is right"

Isn't this a bit childish? I mean, silly retorts like this are fun, but not really compelling if you're trying to be serious.

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Look at the responses you gave me, i'd say i'm not the one who should be called childish but i'll just agree with you


I'm childish, happy? i am, because i still stand by what i said

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hey need to add more open world content and horizontal progression so I can be that 1% that has unique and high lvl gear

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What does open world content and horizontal progression have to do with the top 1 % of players ?

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Originally Posted by Theonekitten

... But when an issue continues to show itself with no kind of acknowledgement from the developers (SE), then expect it to continue to reappear over and over. ...

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When I read the OP, the issue seems not to be with this game, but with all games put up against time-intensive, voracious gameplay. She even states:

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Originally Posted by Akiza

When Elders Scrolls Online, Wildstar and Everquest Next come out Final Fantasy will die because all those games are new and shiny, but after a month I'll be complaining about those games too ...

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It's not any game company's role to address play styles where players rush through content to get the quick "win". Of course it takes longer to develop content than defeat it, especially if the gamers watch others' videos ahead of the content (cheat/walkthrough) or do their runs with people who already know the strategies (carried).

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Originally Posted by Delsai

It's a special snowflake syndrome. Nothing more, nothing less. Hardcore may be the loudest but the cold hard truth is you are the minority.

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This is the best thing ever I should sig this.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

This game is to easy and everything is handed to me. They need to add more open world content and horizontal progression so I can be that 1% that has unique and high lvl gear and release more content because these 2 rehash hm dungeons an one new dungeon, extreme primals and raids aren't enough cause I clear them in 1 day I pay the monthly fee and square should be pumping out 10 yrs worth of content every 3 months.
When Elders Scrolls Online, Wildstar and Everquest Next come out Final Fantasy will die because all those games are new and shiny, but after a month I'll be complaining about those game to because they are all lack luster and will have failed because they are WOW clones. If new MMMORPG stop using the same formula as WOW like all games in the same genre us the same formula maybe people won't get bored like how people got tired of Call of Duty.

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Thank you for summarizing the english forum in a post. Now I can skip the remaining threads.

We indeed need more hardcore contents: however, there's no MMORPG who can compete with FFXIV out there at the moment. Mainly for overall quality.