Plan to remove benefit for failing leves?

As I said before no one wants SE to turn off "Easy mode" people apparently loves to fail leves.

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Originally Posted by Jaide

You're exaggerating and assuming that a full party grabbing whatever leves are available from the counter will have no links - which will never happen. In fact when I do them with linkshell members we frequently have 2-3 links on a leve and that's not even with 8 people. People are failing leves mainly so that they can keep the ones with the highest SP gain. The ability to link them and save time is merely a bonus. If they want to change things so people can pick the ones they want to save time, that's fine - but rewarding failure over success for any reason is backwards and broken.

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i'm not exaggerating at all. i know many including myself would only go through all 3 cities and get the leves i want. those leves would be the ones with the biggest rewards. do you think it would be different? see how many people do this already on locals why would regionals have a different result? if dunes gives a crap reward and a party member has dunes so what toads may have the best reward for me. i'm not going to go all the way to broken water to help you do your one leve for 1k gil and maybe a few k sp. i am going to do my leve and 1 star it to get my rewards as fast as i can. once i get my 8 leves done on 1 star i will then get together a grind group.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

As I said before no one wants SE to turn off "Easy mode" people apparently loves to fail leves.

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It's not about "Easy Mode." People are always going to find the most efficient way to level up. Period. Be it leves or a specific mob type. Leveling up is something that has to be done. It can be enjoyable, but really the fun in it is pretty much dependent upon what a person actually likes doing. There is a reason it's called grinding.

If they take away the re-attempted failed leves facet of the game, eventually people will find something else that, with a given class/job combination, can be grinded through at a ridiculous pace and soon you'll be all whining about how unbalanced all the classes/jobs and mobs are. Eventually every single mob at a given level will have the exact same HP, MP, tp gain rate, dps, and every class will do the exact same thing, that way it is all fair. Pardon my slippery slope, but seriously: if a system is broken simply because it allows people to rank up faster than you want them to and/or you are willing to for yourself, then your way of thinking is not in tune with the game's needs, not the other way around.

In short, just because you're all pissed off that other people are able to rank up faster than you are because they're willing to take advantage of a legitimate system within the game and you're not due to some ethereal ethical grounds about the rules of a "fair" game and what makes a system "broken" or not does not mean that the developers need to "fix" the game by tailoring it to your personal playstyle. The game not fitting your personal understanding of what is "fair" does not a broken system make. If you don't like failing leves, don't do it. If you don't like doing 1 GLA, 4 ARC, 1 THM parties on raptors, don't do them. If you want "Hard Mode" (and by that, I presume you mean making a time sink just a bigger time sink) go solo your leves and complete them all. It's really as simple as that.

It really doesn't matter whether you approve or disapprove of people "gaming" the current system to their advantage. Anyone on either side should realize this is a sign of a fundamentally broken system that needs to be fixed. If that fix gives people a way to play the game "as intended" while earning SP at a rate that's acceptable even to the people who currently use leve abandons, why would anyone complain? All people really want is to be able to advance at a respectable rate without having to resort to using tricks they feel are cheap, especially when the tricks make a complete joke out of the rank up process (which we both agree is flawed and needs to be fixed anyway, which is the entire point).

i'd be happy if they got ride of leves all together let alone fix the abondoning problem. i want real grinding back and though by the time this gets implemented i'll have all dow, and dom at rank 50...at least i'll know when new classes come out and they add 51+ rank to game i wont have to spam same leves.

i'm picturing leves after this fix only being a small treat of sp once u finally get all the good leves every month or so, unless they planning to also add option to pick up any and all leves as well rather then random, but then the problem isn't fixed, it's the same thing exept they made it even easier to do and give us the extra rewards to boot. hopefully this does not happen. i want my ffxi all day grinds over leves any day.

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Originally Posted by weeble

i want my ffxi all day grinds over leves any day.

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I think you're playing the wrong game. Here you go.

Zomg I can't wait to spend all day leveling because it's so "hard"!


/epicsigh

I rather have them remove mob leashing than this.

I wonder if people do the same with crafting leves? Fail the leve after getting some SP, then try and redo the leve? I haven't done many crafting leves so I am not sure.

I'm with the OP On this one though.

Any system that presents segregation in the game should be fixed. Right now there is a huge segregation of players who fail leves, and those who refuse too.

I think the easiest fix for this would be to give bonus SP for the actual completetion of the leve based on (level - range under or over optimal level x (2 x Difficulty) + time left (Seconds) + some other funky math)

So a rank 40 leve being done by rank 40 at 5 stars with 15 minutes left nets a bonus of 13000 ish SP

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

I'm with the OP On this one though.

Any system that presents segregation in the game should be fixed. Right now there is a huge segregation of players who fail leves, and those who refuse too.

I think the easiest fix for this would be to give bonus SP for the actual completetion of the leve based on (level - range under or over optimal level x (2 x Difficulty) + time left (Seconds) + some other funky math)

So a rank 40 leve being done by rank 40 at 5 stars with 15 minutes left nets a bonus of 13000 ish SP

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Hopefully to be divided among ther party.

I think they need to make the exp bonus adjusted so that it is shared after the leve is completed. Until then, leve mobs should normal or reduced exp. A completed leve would be something to strive for for the exp, a lot like the guild task board.

I wouldn't mind them taking out the ability to fail BUT they must do more to the leves than just that. They need to balance the SP rewards and make it so you have the full selection of leve's available every reset so if you are with a group you can all pick up the same ones.

If they just moved SP to be given on completion without doing any further adjustments it would pretty much kill the leve system dead for a lot of people.

I came up with these idea's a while ago and I think it would go some way to helping the leve situation out:

Guildleves, the content you love to hate

So I have been thinking of how SE could improve Guildleves and solve many of the issues with them ie. abandoning them, only picking certain ones, certain camps over-crowded and have come up with a few idea's.

First though I believe the original plan for Guildleves as we have them now was that it was supposed to be more casual/quick content so that you could login and grab some leves and go do them. The main problem is that they are pretty much the only content, so everyone is doing them as they have nothing else to do. Also certain Leve's are better than others in regards to SP/EXP gained so this also make Leve Abandoning to keep those certain Leve's more desirable.

What could work?

My first fix would be to allow all 9 Leve's to be available for selection every reset for every camp. This would allow people to freely choose the Leve's they wish to do so if they are in a group they can make sure they get the same ones to link if they wish.

Next would be to change the way Leve SP/EXP is accumulated. For this maybe it would be better to give a lump sum of SP/EXP at the end of the Leve upon completion and remove the SP/EXP gained from the mobs killed. This would have to be scaled in different ways though.

For example all Rank 20 Leves could give a base 5000 SP upon completion, Rank 30 gave 10,000, Rank 40 15,000 and so on. That would be the base, then you could add a multiplier for difficulty with the number of stars the Leve was completed on. Maybe 5% per star so if 10,000 was the base and you completed it on 5 stars you would get 15,000 SP/EXP. Then you can add other modifiers like completion time, your rank vs. leve difficulty and so on. Also if they were to give static SP then they would have to probably have a minimum rank restriction in place to stop Rank 1's tagging along on R40 Leve's.

Also be a bit more creative with the rewards, a lot of people have a lot of gill so it is not so great a reward any more. Maybe try rewards like 30 Guardians Aspect or 15 Anima as a reward something like that to get people tempted to try different Leves.



Possible Result

By doing these few things it would allow people to spread out and utilise different camps to do Leve's as all Leve's of the same Rank would give the same SP/EXP so there would be no need for everyone to go to Broken Water to do the best R40 Leves.

Also it would stop Leve abandoning as you could decide with your group before hand which Leves you were going to take and obviously if you abandoned you would get nothing as the SP/EXP is rewarded at the end so it would be pointless.

This would also allow you to retry Leve's immediately if you did fail or D/C as it wouldn't be exploitable because the SP/EXP and reward is only gained upon completion. So if you D/C halfway though the Leve they could allow you to retry straight away as you wouldn't have gained any SP/EXP until the end anyway.

I think with just these few changes it would help a lot with the current situation regarding Leves and make them a bit more enjoyable as players will be able to go out and try different Leves at different camps without feeling like they are missing out on huge amounts of SP/EXP by taking different ones.

Additional Idea's

Others also suggested a Grade/Score at the end that could be the base for what SP you received. So if you did extremely well you got an S grade and got max SP from the Leve, if you did badly you would get get an E grade and get less SP. I actually really like that idea as it would give some extra motivation and an additional objective while doing the Leve.

Solo Vs. Party

So how do we balance solo vs. party with this new system. An idea would be to have only people who have linked the leve receive the lump sum of SP at the end. This would also have to work with other balances of Leve linking.

Maybe they could make it so you only get the lump sum at the end if you linked and linking only gives a 5% bonus per link. This would allow solo people to do them without feeling like they are missing out on the huge SP gains you currently get by linking but it would also allow parties to link for a smaller boost while also increasing the difficulty and other modifiers for an even bigger boost.

Lets say for example doing an R40 leve solo would give you 10K SP. Now if you fully leve linked it in a party and did it on a higher difficulty it could add up to a 50% boost so it would make it 15k SP. I think that would be more fair than what we have currently.

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Originally Posted by Altano

I think you're playing the wrong game. Here you go.

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no offense but there goes the population of ffxi with there decision, and no matter how much u change you wont satisfy wow players to this game and you surely not getting any pvp players. this game needs cater to the old ffxi players or it gonna lose whatever is left of the population. maybe your happy with logging in every 1.5days to just do some leves and feel like you did your part in grinding but that to me is a joke and i'm sure even se didn't expect this to happen, as you can see they probably gonna fix leves so you can't do this so it proves i'm right, unless they give us every leve as an option too, then they really gonna screw this game up.

in reality if they didn't screw up ffxi like they did near the end, and they put out content like when it first came out i'm sure every one of us would still be playing it. also i'd have to say theres lots of mmo's comming bye the end of this year that will give every type of player something they really looking for, so them turning this mmo' into anything other then a ffxi-2 or a absolutly new game and not bits of peices of mmo's (the fail parts by the way) will become the death of this game.

The reason why failed leaves remain in your inventory is because the game was so eff'n unstable.
Back in september I was losing 5/8 leves per leve cycle due to the game crashing or getting dc'd. It gave you a chance to complete the leve (which makes me glad especially when I still DC occasionally on one that gives marks).

If SE wasn't so lazy and actually saved your leve progress (like with local leves) and maybe removed the time limit (for those pesky DC's that take that ridiculous 10 minutes to log back in) they could easily take out the failed leve option.

As is, if you DC and come back into the leve-link party your SP is pertty much gimped by half (same if for some dumb reason you had a previous leve still active when the new leve starts and have to choose to share the leader's leve).

I would say the culprits are:
1) Certain mobs award more SP like imps and dragons etc, making these particular leves more desirable (hence why the Japanese groups do Corpus Adamance and Devilet Inside in the 20-30s)
2) you need 4 people with the same leve to get the uber sp - which encourages you to hold onto the above 'better sp' leves
3) some leves are a joke like the Cedarwood one that requires you get 2 aldgoat steaks. I don't think that's ever taken more than 4 kills. Compare that to Ranine which would require killing 15 mobs minium.
4) Disconnects

And re local leves: you only have x number of items to synth with and 2 spares. When you fail, you fail. No try again option.

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Originally Posted by Leknaat

The reason why failed leaves remain in your inventory is because the game was so eff'n unstable.
Back in september I was losing 5/8 leves per leve cycle due to the game crashing or getting dc'd. It gave you a chance to complete the leve.

If SE wasn't so lazy and actually saved your leve progress (like with local leves) and maybe removed the time limit (for those pesky DC's that take like 10 effin minutes to log back in) they could easily take out the failed leve option.

I would say the worst culprit though is
1) you need 4 people with the same leve to get the uberwonderful sp
2) some leves are a joke like the Cedarwood one that requires you get 2 aldgoat steaks. I don't think that's ever taken more than 4 kills.

And re local leves: you only have x number of items to synth with and 2 spares. When you fail, you fail. No try again option.

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Us crafters are playing hard mode. Sissy gladiators can't own up to "The finer points o' crafting".

While the current situation where players intentionally fail leves is not against the rules of the current game design, it obviously doesn't foster a healthy game environment. In our future plans for Guildleves, we don't plan on adding a penalty for failing, but instead plan to include a bonus for completion.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

While the current situation where players intentionally fail leves is not against the rules of the current game design, it obviously doesn't foster a healthy game environment. In our future plans for Guildleves, we don't plan on adding a penalty for failing, but instead plan to include a bonus for completion.

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Isn't that what I just suggested :P

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

While the current situation where players intentionally fail leves is not against the rules of the current game design, it obviously doesn't foster a healthy game environment. In our future plans for Guildleves, we don't plan on adding a penalty for failing, but instead plan to include a bonus for completion.

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Good stuff, more incentive for completing leves is always good. Also balancing all leves to be roughly equal in the SP the give will also help encourage players to complete their leves and not want to fail them.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

While the current situation where players intentionally fail leves is not against the rules of the current game design, it obviously doesn't foster a healthy game environment. In our future plans for Guildleves, we don't plan on adding a penalty for failing, but instead plan to include a bonus for completion.

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That's all well and good, but the way it is now, the rewards of playing and redoing every 36 hours are outweighing the benefits of the completion screen. The completion of the leve should be the goal. It could be ranked so that players will have to do the leve well at high difficulty to get the biggest bonus (exp/gil), instead of awarding bonus exp on fighting the mobs.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post179158

これは前述の失敗を繰り返して同じリーヴをプレイすることへの対策でもありますが、 リーヴをクリアした際に修錬値をもらえるようにして、クリアすることの意味を高めるようにするというものです。


"As a counter measure against the problem of players failing their leves on purpose so they can repeat the same ones over again, you will receive SP upon completion of a leve so that there is more of a reason to finish."

As far as I can recall, I don't believe this was ever translated and posted on the English forums.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

so its leve balancing they are talking about, but from what i can tell, the translation says they are discussing it still and thats not how its going down yet


we need an official translation on this though honestly before we start really looking at what it says

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

While the current situation where players intentionally fail leves is not against the rules of the current game design, it obviously doesn't foster a healthy game environment. In our future plans for Guildleves, we don't plan on adding a penalty for failing, but instead plan to include a bonus for completion.

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Told ya :p


:)

If completed leves were allowed to be 'renewed' in the same fashion as the failed ones, I think this whole issue would go away.

Lets not increase rewards in the sense of gil or items, theres enough of that already.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Told ya :p


:)

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It's official, the JP are stealing Cairdeas' ideas! They must have translators over there without our knowledge...

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Originally Posted by Kallera

It's official, the JP are stealing Cairdeas' ideas! They must have translators over there without our knowledge...

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Hehe, the concept of awarding SP upon leve completion was brought up looooong time ago.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

While the current situation where players intentionally fail leves is not against the rules of the current game design, it obviously doesn't foster a healthy game environment. In our future plans for Guildleves, we don't plan on adding a penalty for failing, but instead plan to include a bonus for completion.

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I'm hoping for healthy XP bonus' for completing the leves. :)

Also, any word on when new leves Rank 50 camps will open up?

In the long run unless it's a substantial sp bonus, I don't see why you wouldn't keep failing to keep optimal levs. Plus you're forgetting about links. No one's going to do a 1 link lev for crappy sp and a small bonus at the end.

You'd have to average out each lev to give the same sp at the end for this to be worth it.

Like I said earlier unless further adjustment are made to go alongside this then this is a bad idea. Imagine if you will, you no longer get SP/EXP until the end of the Leve, ok so we all complete our abandoned leves and get our reward. Reset roles around and none of the good leves come up, then what. Your party also has all different leves as that is how they have turned up from the reset, great now we have a bunch of crappy Leve's to do and hardly any links. Without further adjustments to rewards and Leve selection this will be very bad.

To OP: How about the fact that I purchased my game with my own funds and I will continue to play how I see fit. If you do not like the current system or the way certain people play I suggest you find another game. This is the dumbest thread ever, your basically crying because people aren't worrying about faction credits or class marks by finishing the leves. How about you play the game the way you want to play it and I will play it my way. I don't complain about you completing them do I? This is the dumbest argument ever put on these forums, it's basically you whining that you want more for completing them. If they fix it, I will complete them, but as it is now I want levels more than completing a quest...I'm sorry but I don't give a **** what you call it, cheating, exploiting, whatever...it's avaiable and I'm going to do it, because I paid my money.

Why not just make leve mobs give 0 SP? Then give a set amount of SP at the end of the leve (consistent across all leves) based on how long it took to complete, how many stars and how many links. That way doing a leve on 5 stars with rank 70 mobs would reward you accordingly. They'd have to balance the time factor to account for extra stars of course.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

Like I said earlier unless further adjustment are made to go alongside this then this is a bad idea. Imagine if you will, you no longer get SP/EXP until the end of the Leve, ok so we all complete our abandoned leves and get our reward. Reset roles around and none of the good leves come up, then what. Your party also has all different leves as that is how they have turned up from the reset, great now we have a bunch of crappy Leve's to do and hardly any links. Without further adjustments to rewards and Leve selection this will be very bad.

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Let me guess: you do the same leves over and over and complain that there's nothing to do?

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Let me guess: you do the same leves over and over and complain that there's nothing to do?

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Yep, thats what I do. I spend the time I have in the most efficient manner to gain the most SP/EXP I can in that time. Yes I do complain there is nothing to do as well. I have no interest in crafting and gathering, I gave them a shot and they are not for me so all I have is my battle classes. Why would I choose to do crappy leves and gain SP/EXP slowly, when there are much more efficient methods out there.

I also remember what Leves were like at launch before Leve linking was introduced and Leve abandoning and they were hell. If you went in a big party you got minimal SP gains and they took forever to do as you would have to go through all of them at the camp just to do your 3, then you would go to the next camp again most likely go through all of them again then finally get to your last camp and go through another set just to complete your remaining 2. It was very, very time consuming, as it is now I can jump in my party get all 8 of my leve's done in a few hours.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

While the current situation where players intentionally fail leves is not against the rules of the current game design, it obviously doesn't foster a healthy game environment. In our future plans for Guildleves, we don't plan on adding a penalty for failing, but instead plan to include a bonus for completion.

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Thanks Bayohne. Good news! And something that should help both sides. :)

To those that feel failing them isn't right or fair, to let you know, I have friends on my server who are still desperately trying to complete their Harlequin Armor Set (requiring Faction Credits, which you get from completing leves).

So they aren't failing their Guildleves, and they are choosing to complete them to gain more Faction Credits, faster, to try and get those rare items from Faction Guildleves.

I think that once SE adds more unique, rare Items as rewards from Faction Guildleves (or make Guild Marks more valuable (add new items that are worth buying from each Guild for Guild Marks) and have increased Guild Mark Rewards from Faction Leves), these would incentivize more Players to consider completing Guildleves.

I also like Alexia's idea of having stuff like rewarding Anima or Guardian's Favor, or other interesting additions (besides Gil).

Ultimately, though, it's up to the individual Player how they want to play. As long as it doesn't hurt you, it's their choice. More interesting, rare items would help as well, like if they had made Tattered Robe (for Vintage Robe) only available from a Faction Guildleve, or, say, you can only get Dragonscales for a new Dragon Bow, from a Faction Guildleve (all for Faction Credits)), and suddenly, there's a lot more incentive to complete Guildleves.

I think we'll see it balance out by itself with better rewards as Bayohne / SE is saying, whether it be from immediate completion (the new "Bonus" they're talking about), or indirectly with awesome Rewards / Items from Faction Guildleves and Guild Marks (which would require Guildleves to be completed to gain Faction Credits or Guild Marks)).

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

Like I said earlier unless further adjustment are made to go alongside this then this is a bad idea. Imagine if you will, you no longer get SP/EXP until the end of the Leve, ok so we all complete our abandoned leves and get our reward. Reset roles around and none of the good leves come up, then what. Your party also has all different leves as that is how they have turned up from the reset, great now we have a bunch of crappy Leve's to do and hardly any links. Without further adjustments to rewards and Leve selection this will be very bad.

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Alexia in this 'worst case' scenario you raise I simply wouldn't do leves, until such time as a worthwhile set came up. Also to Kallera who said you are someone who complains there is nothing to do, that comment holds no water. Of course there's nothing to do. The point of leves is to get you SP (and some other junk on the side as secondary rewards that many people could care less about). If you can only do a limited amount of them for some set period of time and there are more leves in existence than you can do in that given period of time, you'll gravitate towards the most efficient ones. The rest, practically speaking, don't exist.

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Originally Posted by AngryNixon

Alexia in this 'worst case' scenario you raise I simply wouldn't do leves, until such time as a worthwhile set came up. Also to Kallera who said you are someone who complains there is nothing to do, that comment holds no water. Of course there's nothing to do. The point of leves is to get you SP (and some other junk on the side as secondary rewards that many people could care less about). If you can only do a limited amount of them for some set period of time and there are more leves in existence than you can do in that given period of time, you'll gravitate towards the most efficient ones. The rest, practically speaking, don't exist.

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Well, I'm sure people will be tickled pink about the idea of doing "dunesfolk for dinner" for the rest of their gaming lives.

Well, why not? Its only exp. Fun shouldn't be something that we have to look for. It should all be a stones throw from us, the only thing that gives the highest numbers. We can have fun when were all 50 and on the forums. /sarcasm

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Well, I'm sure people will be tickled pink about the idea of doing "dunefolk for dinner" for the rest ofntheir gaming lives.

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Well that is the entire point though isn't it, the fact that the only content in the game atm is Leves and we have been doing them since September, there is something seriously wrong with that.

Actually that's a bit of a lie, at launch until the great party SP/EXP nerf of Nov. 2010 most people would group up and do grind parties. It was only after they killed that and boosted Leves that it became Leves or nothing, though you still have good old Dobs and Cobs to solo on but then they nerfed that too so it's Leves or nothing atm.

Failing leves isn't an exploit, but it is retarded. So in a game where really the only two things to do are fight stuff and get gear somehow (crafting, buying, earning), so you make getting the rank more important and you get sp by failing leves. I have like 700 faction cred is all i'm not worried, i'll fail leves out the ass if i need too, but now that i have new people in my linkshell they're not gonna want to fail leves because they need faction cred to do faction leves, one of the only things of "content" we have. So what happens, you're stuck leveling like a effin retard completing leves for poor sp, just so someone can get their faction cred. They should balance this, seriously, guildleves are a stupid invention if they're technically better failed than passed, and this is coming from someone who did fail all leves everday till i had a journal full of fails. Balance guildleves, make most guildleves good, or make grinding off of mobs viable. I'm really effing tired of FFXIV being about "making your own play style" and all they have done is limit the way people have to play this game. If you don't feel it thats just effing wow.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

Well that is the entire point though isn't it, the fact that the only content in the game atm is Leves and we have been doing them since September, there is something seriously wrong with that.

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My point is were you doing different leves? Or difficult leves? I heard a no to the first, and "we should only do efficient leves, together" on the second. I'd like to do different stuff too. But people are sacrificing doing something NEW with the leves, to a mad rush to 50.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

My point is were you doing different leves? Or difficult leves? I heard a no to the first, and "we should only do efficient leves, together" on the second. I'd like to do different stuff too. But people are sacrificing doing something NEW with the leves, to a mad rush to 50.

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Believe me I have probably done every single leve at every single camp in the game and there is not much difference apart from some absolutely terrible ones (I am looking at you Defence Leves ><) and the ones that net you the most SP. I currently have 999 Faction credits in all 3 factions and I want for nothing in the game as I have everything I need, the only thing I do is level my battle classes.

I do go out and grind sometimes with some fellow troops but the problem is that the amount of SP you earn grinding compared to what you can earn with abandoned leves makes it seem completely pointless. As Zaviermhigo just said if you can earn more by failing there is something wrong with the system and I agree, but just shifting the SP to be gained at the end without making further adjustments to the Leve system is a recipe for disaster.

I wouldn't say I am in a mad rush to 50 but I guess it I probably am, it's just that I have nothing else to do in game apart from get SP, and if I am getting SP I want to get it the most efficient way possible so as best to utilise my time in game. At the minute that way is Leve abandoning as I can earn 100K SP in 2 hours, so unless a grind camp comes along and offer somewhere in the region of 40k SP an hour I wouldn't even look at it really but the truth is the best camps only offer around 20k an hour so it is miles behind.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

apart from some absolutely terrible ones (I am looking at you Defence Leves ><)

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Oh god yes. Whoever designed defense leves should be fired and then publicly shamed.

That kind of horrible game design is completely mind boggling.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Oh god yes. Whoever designed defense leves should be fired and then publicly shamed.

That kind of horrible game design is completely mind boggling.

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The worst part is the concept behind the defence leve is great. They have so much potential if done right. Mobs should be constantly coming for you until the time runs out. You should have a new group aggro you before you finish off the first group. No retarded 3 minute waits between the first mob and the second.

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Originally Posted by Xenor

The worst part is the concept behind the defence leve is great. They have so much potential if done right. Mobs should be constantly coming for you until the time runs out. You should have a new group aggro you before you finish off the first group. No retarded 3 minute waits between the first mob and the second.

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Exactly, it is a good concept but the execution is terrible, I have actually fallen asleep waiting for the second "wave" to attack before lol