Please do something about duty finder queues...

Lol if you guys are complaining about this I can't wait to see reactions when they change that 4th spot in parties to a hybrid slot and ALL of the dps jobs are competeing for 1 party slot, of the 2 slots you get now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zumi

It's not SEs fault that way more people play DPS then Tanks or Healers.

And to the people who keep saying well they need more tank and healer jobs, no this won't do anything if someone doesn't want to tank or heal they will pick dps regardless of how many different tank or healer jobs there are. Personally I find DPS to be not fun to play and I don't get the appeal of why so many people play them.

---

Of course its not SE's fault that more people play DPS rather than tanks and healers; however it is SE's fault that they haven't mitigated the problem caused by this disparity (and its not a new issue, it goes all the way back to EQ). It was less of an issue in some earlier games due to the ratio difference, a 6 man group would have 1 tank/heal for every 4 dps, WoW has 1 tank/heal for every 3 dps, ARR has 1 tank/heal for every 2 dps. They went the wrong way, having an 8 man group being 1 tank, 2 heal, 5 dps would probably have the ratio right but would require rebalancing most of the game so its to late for it. They had a chance to mitigate the utility/dps ratio and passed it over.

My DPS queues are typically 8-13 minutes. Healer queues are 25-40 for reasons I can only guess (probably everybody leveling healers due to the need for more T2 enrage healers). Tank queues are instant except for Titan HM, which usually has a long tank queue because of the PF groups with 1 tank. Nobody bothers with Ifrit and Garuda HM since they're easy.

The reason queues are long are the lack of people playing tanks. There are only 25% too many DPS jobs right now (2 tanks, 2 healers, 5 DPS where 4 would be proper), and one of those jobs can necessarily queue as healer as well. The excess of DPS is partly a matter of design, but the main issue are the players choosing DPS jobs. Why don't people play tanks? For some, it's the job, which is terribly managerial. For others, it's the lack of spikes loldrg. For the rest, it's having to deal with DPS players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nekodar

I have 2-3 hours a day on weekdays that I can play. At most.
For the DF start button I suggest waiting 10 seconds before you click or switch back to the job you queued as. In progress fishers never wait that long before they cancel.

---

The bad thing is that they do that sometimes 10sec are left be for we start, also i loose a lot of partys because a single person dont check until the time is up! So is not only the withdraw problem.

And then again if your main class is a Healer you dont have to wait so long as me so you get more time to play.

SE need to start solving the problems and they are a lot of them !

A simple solution would be to increase party size to 5 for light parties and 10 for full parties...

also, rework the server structure, it is my understanding that all servers are divided into groups (for example, Behemoth is with Excalibur on the Primal group) all they need to do is reduce the "groups" and put more servers together. I never had 90+ minute queue times before 2.1 :\

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Renik

and so says the BLM who has... 0 tank jobs at 50, as you say DPS check is important

---

If you read my previous post you would see I am leveling a tank with DF, which puts me on par with you since the hardest content you've done is hm primals.

Seriously your rebuttal is so weak, I'm not the one lecturing other jobs on their lack of difficulty when I don't even do hard content but you were just desperate to find something in response to getting called out over not even touching the hard dps fights. Call me out if you see me whining on the ease of jobs I don't even play. But I do all the content in the game as a dps and I can say with substance that there are hard dps skill checks in the game, and your post is wrong and painful to read.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tyvek

Lol if you guys are complaining about this I can't wait to see reactions when they change that 4th spot in parties to a hybrid slot and ALL of the dps jobs are competeing for 1 party slot, of the 2 slots you get now.

---

Or... instead of tuning the older content down they could just add that fifth "hybrid slot" to it and let old dungeons be five-man while obviously making new content the same if/when they ever actually do add a hybrid/support class.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Varhaatus

I challenge anyone who mains a DPS to give a truthful answer of why they do other than its fun, it is true people just don't want the hassle or responsibility of the healing or tank job.

---

I play BLM because i love the magic side of things. In every FF game i have played, it's always the magic class. I have a 50 SCH as well and love healing but don't feel connected to a healer. I don't want to tank because i hate people relying on me.

My mother started as an Archer, got her Bard to 47. One day she decided she hated it and now has a 50 SCH. She loves healing and everything about, keeping the group alive etc. She won't go back.

I guess if you don't have that connection then there is no point to playing that class.

Thank you for your continued feedback to this issue.

The development team is aware of the long wait times that players are experiencing with the duty finder and are checking on the causes and ways to make improvements moving forward.

Thank you Hvinire!

Semi-related, any word on legitimately separating "Join in Progress" queues from fresh dungeons?

Or perhaps an either/or option... but having it default to either/or is silly IMHO.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kazahashi

You have proof this won't work how?

---

He's correct. It's basic math. You're increasing the number of tanks in queue, yes, but also increasing the number of DPS. It's the illusion of a solution.

Completely separating out the Join in Progress people would make the queue situation worse for both sides. "Join In Progress" folk would see much longer waits as instead of queuing them for the next available NEW instance when there are no available In Progress matches they'd sit and wait for a group to lose someone. In the long run it would cost the "In Progress" folk more time then if they just satisfied themselves with a fresh group. With "In Progress" folks removed from the queue, the pool for fresh instances would become just that much shallower ESPECIALLY in the tank department (tanks are most of the In Progress people). I'd rather put up with a handful of withdrawls and get in in a decent time than sit and wait twice as long because all the tanks are queuing "In Progress".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Varhaatus

When no one wants to be the backbones of a party and instead faceroll a DPS class for easy, responsibility free gaming this is what happens.

---

People are going to play what they want to play. The key to proper MMO design is not to force people into roles they don't want to play, but rather to design content that is flexible enough to accommodate a wide variety of party structure, while simultaneously making tanking and healing more appealing.

This is coming from someone who traditionally tanks and enjoy tanking, mind you. I just think that SE is asking a bit much with a 2:1 DPS/Tank ratio.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TeraRamis

People are going to play what they want to play. The key to proper MMO design is not to force people into roles they don't want to play, but rather to design content that is flexible enough to accommodate a wide variety of party structure, while simultaneously making tanking and healing more appealing.

This is coming from someone who traditionally tanks and enjoy tanking, mind you. I just think that SE is asking a bit much with a 2:1 DPS/Tank ratio.

---

It's also worth pointing out that there are 2 tanks, 2 healers, and 5 DPS roles in the game and one character can level them ALL. My Paladin and Warrior are both at level 50, my Paladin is almost finished gearing up (in what I can without being able to run Coil) and my Warrior has all the stuff she needs as well. Next on the list is a second role as a DPS. The phrase "roll a tank" does absolutely no good considering I actually rolled a tank, TWICE, and leveled them both up. Now I'm a DPS in the queue just like everyone else.

On topic, is there any reason why when I purposely select a dungeon I spend well over an hour waiting for a group before bailing on it and switching to Duty Finder and ironically end up in the exact dungeon I was specifically queued for after 30 minutes?

the problem is when you look at party size and percentages it's always going to be this long of a queue with the current party structure.

when it needs 1 tank and 1 healer for every 2 dd you will always have issues filling a party quickly. why will you have a problem? there is a much higher percentage of people wanting to dps and see the numbers than there is people willing to tank or heal. the percentage of people who want to tank is very small compared to the percentage of people who want to dps.

it won't matter how many data centers we link together. 10 tanks, 10 healers, and 100 dps is the same wait time for the average player as 100 tanks, 100 healers, and 1000 dps. sure the first groups may fill faster, but regardless the average wait times will still have the same wait after the initial push.

until se takes notice and makes corrections on the percentages of a party needed for content the wait times will not change. if the small parties, for example, were 6 people needing 1 tank, 1 healer, and 4 dps the wait times would be drastically lower. the could make adjustments for the full party sizes along those same lines and make content suited to those party sizes. until that happens you could link every server and the average wait will not decrease at all just due to pure percentages of players on certain types of roles inside of the party.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Welsper59

... there's still going to be a lot of people waiting for that 40-90min. Heck, even with your suggestion of doubling the DPS count for groups (384 DPS in that previous example), that still leaves a grand majority of players waiting.

---

40-90 minutes for a dungeon-finder type group up IS NOT REASONABLE - and these past several weeks I definitely have been having to wait more than the supposed 'average' of 30 minutes as a dps. I have discussed this in my company chat several times recently as well.

Today mid-morning to lunch-ish time (east coast U.S.) was the same for me as queues last night and also in fact on Friday night and Saturday night -- irregardless of the time period/frame I try either the Hi Level Duty Roulette and/or CT - its taking forever to get in; and when it does pop it literally can then change 6-7 times until you finally get the real pop to go into the dungeon. And yes, I always select Join in Progress, as well as all languages also. That is how crazy-making this is.

*Shakes head. SE doesn't have me wanting it bad enough to wait even more than 15-ish minutes let alone 45 min+. *****Redonkulous*****

Raise the gil bonuses for tanks in roulettes, and allow for secondary bonuses for healer of say half that much. Currently it's like a 750gil bonus to be a tank. That's nothing. You can earn more than that in 15 minutes mining/gathering and selling to NPCs, rather than 30-45mins in a dungeon.

Raise the roulette bonus to something more like 5000gil for tanks, and 2500gil for healers (once a day of course), and THEN more people might start tanking.

I just ran a roulette. Queued on my bard for Main Scenario. Got tired of waiting after 30 mins. Switch to my Pally. BAM! Insta-queue.

Raise the incentives for tanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hvinire

Thank you for your continued feedback to this issue.

The development team is aware of the long wait times that players are experiencing with the duty finder and are checking on the causes and ways to make improvements moving forward.

---

While you are at it, you really need to make it so people are unable to cancel out of the roulette duty finder. It really sucks when either the tank or the healer *refuses* to do one of the first 3 dungeons and hits cancel and re-queues until they see a dungeon they like. I've waited 30 minutes for a queue before then had then spent another 15 minutes clicking commence because the healer or tank decided they don't want to do sastasha... or copperbell...

Its more than ridiculous when you can sit there staring at your screen as the commence window appears and disappears instantly for 5 minutes straight because someone doesn't want to do the dungeon that roulette gave them.

Get rid of tank-swapping mechanics for future contents. Group compositions of:

1 tank
2 healers
5 dps

is a good start!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hvinire

Thank you for your continued feedback to this issue.

The development team is aware of the long wait times that players are experiencing with the duty finder and are checking on the causes and ways to make improvements moving forward.

---

The cause is the lack of tanks. You're going to have give people more incentive to tank dungeons. The roulette only helps a little because people can only do it once a day.

Some suggestions:

An achievement reward for tanking x amount of dungeons (guildhests do not count). Make this a mount.

A tank roulette that tanks can do as many times as they want that gives increased exp/gil. The roulette randomly selects from the same dungeons as low level roulette. Just doesn't give the huge bonus the daily gives.

And no, the current bonus reward of 4725 exp and 300 gil is much too low to be appeasing.

Remember shouting in Uldah for HOURS to find a party in 1.0 ?

yeah good times

I am an i90 PLD and an i85 WAR. I have no reason to tank dungeons anymore outside of CT. Reason being, is trying to get the CT item I want, I cap out my Myth. I will tank coil after that (roll MNK gear), then I play with my i87 MNK. I help others with my MNK mostly but My PLD and WAR don't get touched unless it is needed and I feel like playing it. I need a reason to play my tank other then to cap my myth, and coil. Thats all it really is used for.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YarozeX

I am an i90 PLD and an i85 WAR. I have no reason to tank dungeons anymore outside of CT. Reason being, is trying to get the CT item I want, I cap out my Myth. I will tank coil after that (roll MNK gear), then I play with my i87 MNK. I help others with my MNK mostly but My PLD and WAR don't get touched unless it is needed and I feel like playing it. I need a reason to play my tank other then to cap my myth, and coil. Thats all it really is used for.

---

Pretty much this except i rarely even do CT anymore, and if for some reason i need to do dungeon i roll it with FC members and skip whole DF, cant even remember when i did anything via DF. And maybe this is the reason why DF lacks tanks, all tanks are rolling with their FC/LS as those offer pretty much 100% success rate when doing current content.

The CT queue time for DPS is horrendous. I'm thinking part of the issue is due to a bunch of the main tanks playing DPS for the CT drop. While not enough of the main DPS people are playing tanks to make up for it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hvinire

Thank you for your continued feedback to this issue.

The development team is aware of the long wait times that players are experiencing with the duty finder and are checking on the causes and ways to make improvements moving forward.

---

I think the causes are pretty obvious. You have a handful of players, most of whom choose to play DD role. Tanks are in demand, followed by healers. Not enough tanks in the game to serve the constant ping of DDs (and sometimes healers) looking for a group. I am no expert, but unless you add more tanking classes people might like to play, or give some DD classes a tank utility, or just eradicate the tank role from the game, you probably won't solve much.

As for the other players: Why not level a tank up to help the queues. Then use that tank to gear up your DD character. Then use your FC or party finder or party chat to play your DD when that's what you want to do? I'd think tanking consistently would be more fun than getting to run an instance once every hour or more.

Tanking is pretty much the same job as a ranged DD, but you're in melee range. You have about as many mechanics in instances as any other player, and if you gear and play right, you can put out some real damage. Frankly, I have a bard that bores me more than my tank. Not sure about the other classes besides WHM, but tanking can be fun. You're a DD who has to be on their game to keep your role working smoothly (usually).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jyoeru

I

As for the other players: Why not level a tank up to help the queues. Then use that tank to gear up your DD character. Then use your FC or party finder or party chat to play your DD when that's what you want to do? I'd think tanking consistently would be more fun than getting to run an instance once every hour or more.

.

---

because you can't use tank to gear up your DD character. If the piece I need on DD drops I can't need on it, its why the only time I tank is with a Fc o rparty finder group since we can control who rolls on what.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jomoru

because you can't use tank to gear up your DD character. If the piece I need on DD drops I can't need on it, its why the only time I tank is with a Fc o rparty finder group since we can control who rolls on what.

---

Oh, my bad. I forgot you can't buy vendor gear on another class for another class!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sciwolf

Long queue times for dps is an old myth that is perpetuated in most MMOs by people who are part of "i want instant everything otherwise its too long" generation.
The fact that there are more dps classes than tanks and healers is offset by the simple rule that most groups have at least twice the number of slots for dps. In fact, in large scale raids dps actually have lower queue times than tanks.
Tanks actually have fairly long queue times. I actually had a CT queue that was over 10 minutes the other night.
Queue times are fine and not as different as most people like to think once you stop buying into common misconceptions and start thinking like an individual.

---

This is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. In order for that to be true, about 25% of the population must play tanks. 25% must play healers. And 50% must play dps. I would wager more like 80-90% play dps.

This has been around as a problem since WoW at the very least. I know from experimentation that it is the lack of tanks that are the issue. I get into a group that lost its tank. I ask tank I know to come help. Tank queues for in progress group = hi, buddy! How are you doing?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hvinire

Thank you for your continued feedback to this issue.

The development team is aware of the long wait times that players are experiencing with the duty finder and are checking on the causes and ways to make improvements moving forward.

---

Unfortunately, Alot of people seen this issue coming from a MILE away when you announced 4 player parties instead of FFXI's 6 player parties. It's about consumption of DPS, or fitting in as many dps as possible for every tank/healer you remove from the queue. If you're population of DPS is 80% of the player base ( guessing obviously ) and the party make up only allows for 50% DPS, you're queue grows for dps higher and higher as more of the population of players enters the queue. If, however you had a party of 6 (1 tank, 1 healer, 4 dps) your party composition increases to 67% dps, you're effectively removing 50% more dps from the queue for every tank/healer you consume from the queue. This won't fix the problem in full, however would go a long way to help it. It should in theory drop DPS queue times by 50%.

This issue was brought up all through out beta but dev's know best.

This issue will never be fixed, your best option is to stop bitching about it and try another class. They could make it five DPS in every party and one tank one healer, and you would still complain about having to wait 20/30 minutes compared to a Tank's instant. DPS are a dime a dozen easy mode thing that everyone wants to do. Your job is to just hit things for most of the content. It has the lowest barrier of entry and you'll always see DPS be the highest amount of people. Always.


You're literally part of the problem if you're a DPS complaining about waiting forever. If you don't like that DPS wait so long, go another role so OTHER DPSers don't have to wait as long and you get an instant queue as well.

"Oh but that's not fun" oh well sucks to be you. I'd love to play a Dragoon or Monk over PLD half the time, but I also like making other people have fun rather then just myself like a brat.

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/43...90/17/zjux.jpg

This is my entry to the waiting times competition

Played DCU Battlefield 4 & Day Z while waiting for it.
& yes suprisingly we did win when we finally got in another 20 mins later

http://lalafell.xxxblog.jp/archives/36707999.html JP servers seem to be quicker

I think some people forget that this is a game, a game is designed to be entertaining. Saying "just play a tank!" Isn't a long term solution. If people aren't able to play a job they enjoy and thus aren't entertained, the product fails in its most basic function.

Saying "well its up to the players to change!" Isn't right either. If players are either being forced to play a job they don't enjoy, or are waiting for ages to do content, they will just stop playing and paying for the game.

Its in SE best interest to sort this problem out, as its only them that will lose out if they leave it how it is and people stop paying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deifact

I think some people forget that this is a game, a game is designed to be entertaining. Saying "just play a tank!" Isn't a long term solution. If people aren't able to play a job they enjoy and thus aren't entertained, the product fails in its most basic function.

Saying "well its up to the players to change!" Isn't right either. If players are either being forced to play a job they don't enjoy, or are waiting for ages to do content, they will just stop playing and paying for the game.

Its in SE best interest to sort this problem out, as its only them that will lose out if they leave it how it is and people stop paying.

---

If everyone had a tank and played that tank once a week or so, you know, for science, we'd all win. I could play my bard more, not that there is really much difference mashing buttons for a bard vs. tank. The point is this is a community. You DD-only people are upset because your queue times are long. You refuse to play the roles that are deficient. The only fixes are:

a) Eliminate all non-DD roles. Well, I'd stop playing. Pretty sure a lot of people would.
b) Make anyone able to tank. Well, that might have a lot of problems for design.
c) Get more people to tank. Well SE can't incentivize that enough to get y'all into the roles. So, I guess it's up to you to make some compromises or deal with the long queues. OR: Go at it old fashioned and find your own groups and not rely on the highly anti-MMO cross-server queuing tool that didn't really exist in MMOs for a long time.

Or we could do something like have 200 DD per 1 tank per 1 healer. Fixed. Or, no, no it's not. It's not fixed at all. :(

As to your last point, SE loses nothing. You go to another game that has. . . wait for it. . . the same exact problem. If 80% of the people playing an MMO want to only mash DD buttons, then that mentality creates a deficiency for which no tangible solution exists. Supply/demand. Supply/demand. That's how it works right thar.

This game would be boring with no healers or tanks, and you know it, too. There'd be no danger, no way to balance mechanics so that you felt threatened. If every man could be for himself, then it would be as simple as "why even bother? Why not just walk in, tell the boss to drop his weapon and forfeit his loots?"

It's a super complicated problem, and ironically, it's created by the players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WhiteDragon

This issue will never be fixed, your best option is to stop bitching about it and try another class. They could make it five DPS in every party and one tank one healer, and you would still complain about having to wait 20/30 minutes compared to a Tank's instant. DPS are a dime a dozen easy mode thing that everyone wants to do. Your job is to just hit things for most of the content. It has the lowest barrier of entry and you'll always see DPS be the highest amount of people. Always.


You're literally part of the problem if you're a DPS complaining about waiting forever. If you don't like that DPS wait so long, go another role so OTHER DPSers don't have to wait as long and you get an instant queue as well.

"Oh but that's not fun" oh well sucks to be you. I'd love to play a Dragoon or Monk over PLD half the time, but I also like making other people have fun rather then just myself like a brat.

---

This is a little harsh, but he does make some good points. I do what I do because no one else wants to (outside of healing--I prefer to heal and started that back in WOW when no one wanted to heal), so I learned to make it fun. Everyone wins. Or I could just DD and be sad about the wait times.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by prymortal

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/43...90/17/zjux.jpg

This is my entry to the waiting times competition

Played DCU Battlefield 4 & Day Z while waiting for it.
& yes suprisingly we did win when we finally got in another 20 mins later

http://lalafell.xxxblog.jp/archives/36707999.html JP servers seem to be quicker

---

I think part of your problem is that you have taken all 4 DPS slots in a party queue. I never queue for CT as my tank without taking at least one other DPS in the queue with me to alleviate their issues and my friend has done the same with his healer. You're just shooting yourself in the foot there since you're effectively eliminating the possibility of any tank in queue with an attached DPS and further increasing your own queue time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Squa

roll a tank

---

I have two tank classes. One is ilv 90, the other is ilv 86.

Telling everyone else to go play a tank does not fix the problem. Because even if they did it wouldn't change the fact that they would eventually rather play something that is not a tank.

Now, letting tanks have a chance to roll on equipment that they wanted from an instance like CT or something would probably do something to reduce the wait of queue times. But players of other roles probably do not like the sound of that, so we're right back where we started.

Complained about this too --> Rolled a tank --> Could get into dungeons/raids very fast with tank --> Quit playing tank cause that's not what I wanted to play, and obviously it still take forever for my DD's.... -_-

You "roll a tank" people have to think with your brains....

If someone wants to play as DD, then they should be able to. Making excuses for that is pathetic. Like I pointed out, rolling as a tank doesn't make it easier for my DD's (the ones I like to play)

Sure, if everyone rolls a tank and plays once in a while, then this might not happen... but that's not the case, and it shouldn't have to be the case either.

Have never played an MMO where I had to wait for such ridiculous periods of time.

I don't know exactly how they could fix it, but I'm not a developer either... so that's not my job.

One thing is for sure, I rather quit playing this game, than changing my main job to a tank...

really while I could queue as a healer runs are going to go way smother on my 85 smn than relying on random dps. I don't really have to wait more than 15-20 minutes for a roulette though, and I only do one a week at most

For those who keep saying we should all roll a tank or healer... it isn't always that we don't enjoy those classes, it could also be because we are fully aware we aren't very good at them.

I have an idea, I am sure that most people will hate it, but why not?

I have Warrior and Summoner/Scholar to level 50. I would like to get the rest of my jobs to 50, but when I do DFR on Black Mage, Dragoon, Bard, or Monk I am not available to tank and am clogging up the queue with another DD. Why not make it so if you enter DFR on a level 50 job that is in demand (mainly tank but sometimes healer), that the XP that you would have received from kills and bonuses are stored into a pool that will be applied the next time you complete a DFR on a job that is not in demand. (Mainly, any DPS.) So, say I see that tanks are needed for low dungeons, I pop onto my WAR in DFR, run through a complete dungeon to build up the bonus, then change to say Monk, run another complete DFR dungeon, and get the XP and bonuses from both to my Monk at the end.

And I can hear it already, "but Septimus, people aren't going to learn their jobs if they only play tanks and healers." This is why the XP would go into a pool that you would have to play a DD job to spend, you would still have to play the job through an entire dungeon, (so someone couldn't just waltz in to a final boss to get the bonus) meaning that half of the time people with high-level tanks won't be competition for your DFR. It will help to incentivize people who either like or don't mind tanking (or healing) to use those jobs to help speed up the roulette.

There would have to be a balance so that you don't get an instant 5 levels if you are on a level 16 job (the total amount in the pool is reduced the lower the job), but this can be fixed. The point is that this will get more tanks into the system, now let's see how this will cause the collapse of Western Civilization...