Raid Curiousities - Important information we don't yet have

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Originally Posted by Ilethius

Ok, don't flame me too much for this but how about level balancing factors for items, so if 3 rank 25's and 1 rank 50 enter a rank 30 raid the item reward is much less than if its 4 rank 25's. Make it so the higher the char lvl entered the worse the drops get so lets say with a rank 50 char in the group you only get rank 20 items but with 4 rank 25's chars you get rank 35 items or even make so the item percentage drop rate is much less with high level chars.

That might promote better groups/strategys etc.

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Yes it does, but what happens when your friends level up? You just stop doing the dungeon with them because they gimp your drop rate? With a cap, your friends can still help you to get the reward you seek while not making the challenge trivial. They also get rewarded SP as good as if they were level 30 (if capped at 30) so everyone gets something out of it. Your solution just exclude the higher level from helping lower level friends, and no cap just make content unchallenging.

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

I know Vedis and I understand completely your approach but you have to also see my side of things, you seem really set on your opinion and everytime someone, not just me, post good points about level capped content, you just replay the same argument which is not very strong : "let people play the way THEY want to".

Right now, the only content will be 2 dungeons. one level 30 and one level 50. Almost everyone and their mother has at least one level 50 as it is now and while the level 50 dungeon will be (hopefully) challenging, the level 30 dungeon that was designed will be there for nothing. Yes I know that they can level up another job/class and do that dungeon on appropriate level, but there is not incentive in doing so (maybe I'm wrong we will have to see) but no one will actually do it if they can just faceroll their way on their level 50 class/job. They could have just made 2 rank 50 dungeons then.

If you don't have a level 50 job/class, then what will happen is that you go in the dungeon with level 50 friends from your LS and again, just watch them (if you aren't too busy watching tv) clear everything for you while you reap the rewards of your unskillfulness. It's like rewarding dumbness. It's just bad design.

Then we will at one point have a cap raise and be able to go higher than 50.

You know what... as I am writing this I realise that I can do a compromise. Either they cap story missions and give a nice reward at the end like CoP rings in FFXI OR if the best gears come from dungeons cap the dungeons. If the story missions end up giving nice rewards of the like of CoP rings, I will be ok with uncapped dungeons even tho it's sad to design content that will get unchallenging everytime you release new content, like WoW (which is pretty much why this game gets so boring after a while)

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The r30 dungeon isn't for nothing if left uncapped. The Dev Team is trying to plan for the future, not just for the now, by adding in medium level content for players who might return to check out the new content or for new players who jump on at the PS3 release (if we get there). It's just like the NMs they released in their last content patch. It wasn't designed for r50s at all, it was designed for medium rank players now and in the future so that new and returning players will have a more complete game when they come back.

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Originally Posted by DynamisLord

Why would you NOT want a challenge? What a stupid comment.

For someone with so many high level classes, you really do have your head buried in the sand.

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no
just that as a level 50, somethat that is level 30 isnt supposed to be a challenge for me
hence the difference in numbers

se already has something implemented in this game to scale difficulty, and if something is going to be used to do it this time, itl be that

why is it so hard for people to understand a 30 dungeon isnt meant to give 50s a challenge?

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

How is that fun Monkey? You said yourself that you waited so long for content that you wish to just faceroll half they new content by being allowed to go in uncapped at 50. After your first run (max 60min) you'll have done half the new content and will have had no challenge in it and probably never enter there again. Seems a bit contradicting to me.. I'd rather have replay value while I wait for additional content :/

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THEN RUN IT AS A R25! For pete's sake. What does it matter to everyone else what I want to do on my r50? Obviously FUN is a subjective emotion. I can have fun going duo into a r30 dungeon and just effing around. You can't. That is fine, except what you all are saying is that YOUR experiences are more important than MINE. How is that balanced?

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

The r30 dungeon isn't for nothing if left uncapped. The Dev Team is trying to plan for the future, not just for the now, by adding in medium level content for players who might return to check out the new content or for new players who jump on at the PS3 release (if we get there). It's just like the NMs they released in their last content patch. It wasn't designed for r50s at all, it was designed for medium rank players now and in the future so that new and returning players will have a more complete game when they come back.

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the same people complained then that it wasnt endgame NMs

people only want endgame challenges, and want to leave the middle man behind, thats what this is all truely about

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

The r30 dungeon isn't for nothing if left uncapped. The Dev Team is trying to plan for the future, not just for the now, by adding in medium level content for players who might return to check out the new content or for new players who jump on at the PS3 release (if we get there). It's just like the NMs they released in their last content patch. It wasn't designed for r50s at all, it was designed for medium rank players now and in the future so that new and returning players will have a more complete game when they come back.

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new players and returning players will have a linkshell by the time they reach level 25. Which just gives weight to my point since they will have higher level player to come clear the dungeon for them for an easy run. Making this content trivial, unecessary and useless.

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

new players and returning players will have a linkshell by the time they reach level 25. Which just gives weight to my point since they will have higher level player to come clear the dungeon for them for an easy run. Making this content trivial, unecessary and useless.

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further fueling the notion that you believe everyone should just start at 50 then

mid level content is not meant to be a challenge for endgamers

it will always be this way

and you cant FORCE the challenge upon those who it is not meant to be one for


those who will want the challenge will do the 50 dungeon, or will use a lower job to do the 30 dungeon


but forcing people is not the answer, making it so they "cant" is just going to piss them off instead because they dont wanna play the way you want them too

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

new players and returning players will have a linkshell by the time they reach level 25. Which just gives weight to my point since they will have higher level player to come clear the dungeon for them for an easy run. Making this content trivial, unecessary and useless.

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That is complete conjecture. With a wave of PS3 players, not ALL of them are going to end up in established LS's already. A LOT of them are going to band together with fellow PS3 players and form their own LS's. And again, who cares anyway? If they want to run a dungeon like that, more power to them. How does that affect YOUR gaming experience?

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

the same people complained then that it wasnt endgame NMs

people only want endgame challenges, and want to leave the middle man behind, thats what this is all truely about

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Funny that you say that when what I'm saying is completely the opposite. Capped areas/dungeon promotes mid-level content that stays challenging for those mid-level people as well as high level who comes to help them.

Your view of leaving uncapped doesn't help the mid-level people, it only hinders them and promotes levels as fast as possible to reach end game challenging content.

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

Funny that you say that when what I'm saying is completely the opposite. Capped areas/dungeon promotes mid-level content that stays challenging for those mid-level people as well as high level who comes to help them.

Your view of leaving uncapped doesn't help the mid-level people, it only hinders them and promotes levels as fast as possible to reach end game challenging content.

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it doesnt hinder the mid levl players
it hinders everyone else who wants to play the game

YOU want to force extra restrictions on people, restrictions thatl make the work 50s put into getting to 50 worthless, all for a low level dungeon

there is nothing about promoting leveling to endgame to do a 30 dungeon

no one wants to wear 30 gear at endgame, so why would i wanna get to 50 just to do a 30 dungeon quicker? id rather focus on the 50 dungeon!



your fighting for something that is totaly unesisary, and as i stated before, the mechanic to give 50s a challenge is IN PLACE, they will use it before capping the area, and guess what....its not in favor of a challenge to 50s

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

Funny that you say that when what I'm saying is completely the opposite. Capped areas/dungeon promotes mid-level content that stays challenging for those mid-level people as well as high level who comes to help them.

Your view of leaving uncapped doesn't help the mid-level people, it only hinders them and promotes levels as fast as possible to reach end game challenging content.

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Again, you're assuming that dungeoning is a viable option for SPing to begin with. Not to mention that it has no effect on how fast people level now. Capping a r30 dungeon isn't going to stop people from power leveling their friends in Nanawa Mines on the eyeballs, or anywhere else.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

That is complete conjecture. With a wave of PS3 players, not ALL of them are going to end up in established LS's already. A LOT of them are going to band together with fellow PS3 players and form their own LS's. And again, who cares anyway? If they want to run a dungeon like that, more power to them. How does that affect YOUR gaming experience?

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It does affect me because it will be hard to find a challenge if people in my group invites high level friends and there will be no replay value once you out-level the content. That is how it affects me. I am entitled to my opinion as you are to yours and the fact that you capitalize "YOUR" as meaning that is only about me just applies to you as well. I am not the only one wanting caps and wanting caps is thinking about the game and community as a whole wishing that everyone gets to experience the content the way it was designed and not make everything a faceroll run for new players as well and existing players everytime there is new content release.

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

It does affect me because it will be hard to find a challenge if people in my group invites high level friends and there will be no replay value once you out-level the content. That is how it affects me. I am entitled to my opinion as you are to yours and the fact that you capitalize "YOUR" as meaning that is only about me just applies to you as well. I am not the only one wanting caps and wanting caps is thinking about the game and community as a whole wishing that everyone gets to experience the content the way it was designed and not make everything a faceroll run for new players as well and existing players everytime there is new content release.

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again

you will have your challenge

its called the R50 dungeon!

the R30 isnt meant to be a challenge to 50s

not every bit of content is meant to be a challenge for the endgamers

how hard is that to really understand?

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

It does affect me because it will be hard to find a challenge if people in my group invites high level friends and there will be no replay value once you out-level the content. That is how it affects me. I am entitled to my opinion as you are to yours and the fact that you capitalize "YOUR" as meaning that is only about me just applies to you as well. I am not the only one wanting caps and wanting caps is thinking about the game and community as a whole wishing that everyone gets to experience the content the way it was designed and not make everything a faceroll run for new players as well and existing players everytime there is new content release.

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Obviously you're not concerned about the game community 'as a whole' because people like Vedis and I obviously don't want caps. The only difference is you can find 3 people who will agree to run the dungeon as r25-35 to preserve YOUR experience but if a cap is present their is nothing to preserve MY experience.

ROUND 918273918.... FIGHT!!

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

again

you will have your challenge

its called the R50 dungeon!

the R30 isnt meant to be a challenge to 50s

not every bit of content is meant to be a challenge for the endgamers

how hard is that to really understand?

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It's not that I don't understand, it's that you don't

I understand loud and clear that the level 30 dungeons are for level 30 and that level 50 will have no incentive in going in. What you don't understand is that NO one, given the chance, will go through that mid-level content they way it was designed because they will have high level coming to help them go through EVEN if they don't have to and have the choice to go with a group of 30s, they won't because it's easier to just go with higher level plus you get all the rewards for yourself.

So the dev making mid-level content is just a waste of dev time since anyways no one (maybe a slight 2% will) will do that content with a group of players that is level 30.

I did not say I want everything to be a challenge for end-gamers. I said I want it to be a challenge for mid-level gamers which they won't get because they simply won't do it the way it was designed. And then you say that they will get their challenge at level 50, you are just shooting your own foot saying that not everything is about end-game.. because it will be just that, why spend time trying to do mid-content with mid-content people when I can have high level help and faceroll through and get as fast as possible to end-game so that we can have a challenge at last...

I know that you think I'm just out for myself here, but I could say the same about you, there is as much people saying they are for than saying they are against. In the end, we will just go with what SE decides they want their game to be and people will play if they like the game or quit if they don't. I won't quit for that, but it will for sure add to the flaws of the game for me.

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

It's not that I don't understand, it's that you don't

I understand loud and clear that the level 30 dungeons are for level 30 and that level 50 will have no incentive in going in. What you don't understand is that NO one, given the chance, will go through that mid-level content they way it was designed because they will have high level coming to help them go through EVEN if they don't have to and have the choice to go with a group of 30s, they won't because it's easier to just go with higher level plus you get all the rewards for yourself.

So the dev making mid-level content is just a waste of dev time since anyways no one (maybe a slight 2% will) will do that content with a group of players that is level 30.

I did not say I want everything to be a challenge for end-gamers. I said I want it to be a challenge for mid-level gamers which they won't get because they simply won't do it the way it was designed. And then you say that they will get their challenge at level 50, you are just shooting your own foot saying that not everything is about end-game.. because it will be just that, why spend time trying to do mid-content with mid-content people when I can have high level help and faceroll through and get as fast as possible to end-game so that we can have a challenge at last...

I know that you think I'm just out for myself here, but I could say the same about you, there is as much people saying they are for than saying they are against. In the end, we will just go with what SE decides they want their game to be and people will play if they like the game or quit if they don't. I won't quit for that, but it will for sure add to the flaws of the game for me.

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The problem is that you are basing your reason's on your own opinions and speculation. None of your 'points' are cold and hard facts.

You know what the cold and hard facts are?

SOME players want r30 dungeons to be capped.
SOME players want r30 dungeons to be uncapped.
SOME players don't even care.

The only DIFFERENCE here is that the players who want r30 dungeons capped will directly inhibit the players who want it to be uncapped, while if the dungeons were to be uncapped the players who want to experience the r30 dungeon at r30 only need to find 3 MORE PEOPLE to run it that way.

Who is REALLY being unreasonable here?

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

Obviously you're not concerned about the game community 'as a whole' because people like Vedis and I obviously don't want caps. The only difference is you can find 3 people who will agree to run the dungeon as r25-35 to preserve YOUR experience but if a cap is present their is nothing to preserve MY experience.

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as much people want caps to preserve a challenge as people like you and Vedis who wants uncapped dungeons just for the sake of "deserving" it because you are level 50, which is egocentric really. YOU are not owed anything because you got rank 50... Are you that much against rewarding skillful play that you think being max level is reason enough to make lower content unchallenging?

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

The problem is that you are basing your reason's on your own opinions and speculation. None of your 'points' are cold and hard facts.

You know what the cold and hard facts are?

SOME players want r30 dungeons to be capped.
SOME players want r30 dungeons to be uncapped.
SOME players don't even care.

The only DIFFERENCE here is that the players who want r30 dungeons capped will directly inhibit the players who want it to be uncapped, while if the dungeons were to be uncapped the players who want to experience the r30 dungeon at r30 only need to find 3 MORE PEOPLE to run it that way.

Who is REALLY being unreasonable here?

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Ok seriously this is getting as riddiculous as yesterday and really I'll just end this by saying I stated my view on it and yes I don't have cold hard facts and it's my view and opinions as I never said otherwise.

You stated yours and you don't have hard cold facts either and is also just your view and opinion on the matter. Which I respect completely.

As I said, in the end we will play the game as it is handed to us and that is that. Doesn't mean we have to be happy about it and that we are not entitled to an opinion, and doesn't mean that you need to go assuming and insulting people (I'm as much at fault here).

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

as much people want caps to preserve a challenge as people like you and Vedis who wants uncapped dungeons just for the sake of "deserving" it because you are level 50, which is egocentric really. YOU are not owed anything because you got rank 50... Are you that much against rewarding skillful play that you think being max level is reason enough to make lower content unchallenging?

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I agree that just as many people want it capped than uncapped. The issue is that giving in to the former of those players leaves out the latter, but giving in to the latter does NOT exclude the former. And it is ridiculous to think that the r50s in this game aren't owed anything. I have been playing this game since launch and I have been max level since January. That has left me with 5 months of next to no content to partake in, so once they DO put content out, dictating how I experience it is a mistake.

Did I say I was against rewarding skillful play? Nope, don't think I did. The issue is I could care less for the rewards of a MID RANK DUNGEON. I don't need the SP, I don't need the gear. So where exactly is the reward in a 4 man r25 dungeon for a r50?

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

I agree that just as many people want it capped than uncapped. The issue is that giving in to the former of those players leaves out the latter, but giving in to the latter does NOT exclude the former. And it is ridiculous to think that the r50s in this game aren't owed anything. I have been playing this game since launch and I have been max level since January. That has left me with 5 months of next to no content to partake in, so once they DO put content out, dictating how I experience it is a mistake.

Did I say I was against rewarding skillful play? Nope, don't think I did. The issue is I could care less for the rewards of a MID RANK DUNGEON. I don't need the SP, I don't need the gear. So where exactly is the reward in a 4 man r25 dungeon for a r50?

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Monkey, Vedis, I just thought of something that might please both side of this debate. Please don't flame just tell me what you think (hehe I feel like this is a brainstorming session) I might make a new thread for this actually, anyways just tell me what you think:

What if they gave the option to cap the dungeon or not. The gears would be the same but capping the dungeon would allow for novelty items to drop like special/silly items mounts (just throwing it out here) or rare materia, HQ+3 version of the gears maybe.

That way, you give an incentive to cap the dungeon but at the same time you allow players to go through at any level they want if they wish to.

What do you think?

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

Monkey, Vedis, I just thought of something that might please both side of this debate. Please don't flame just tell me what you think (hehe I feel like this is a brainstorming session) I might make a new thread for this actually, anyways just tell me what you think:

What if they gave the option to cap the dungeon or not. The gears would be the same but capping the dungeon would allow for novelty items to drop like special/silly items mounts (just throwing it out here) or rare materia, HQ+3 version of the gears maybe.

That way, you give an incentive to cap the dungeon but at the same time you allow players to go through at any level they want if they wish to.

What do you think?

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I'm not here to flame anyone regardless of their opinions, I just want both sides heard. With that said your new proposal is BETTER than the first, but in principal I am going to be against anything that LIMITS a r50. Sorry, I know I am being stubborn. The problem is that the r30 holds NO incentive for me beyond the fact that it is a novelty, which is the same as the r30 NMs. If the r30 dungeon isn't fun for me, then there isn't a reason for me to go back and run it.

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

Monkey, Vedis, I just thought of something that might please both side of this debate. Please don't flame just tell me what you think (hehe I feel like this is a brainstorming session) I might make a new thread for this actually, anyways just tell me what you think:

What if they gave the option to cap the dungeon or not. The gears would be the same but capping the dungeon would allow for novelty items to drop like special/silly items mounts (just throwing it out here) or rare materia, HQ+3 version of the gears maybe.

That way, you give an incentive to cap the dungeon but at the same time you allow players to go through at any level they want if they wish to.

What do you think?

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so now your saying that people who go through at a lower rank should get better drops then people at a higher rank?

sorry but thats even worse

you are once again pushing the idea that you must penalize higher ranked players for being in a lower dungeon

the fact that the dungeon is lower is enough, the drops form the 50 are what we are gonna want, but you just can not tell people that they arent allowed to get the same drops cuz they are higher level

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

so now your saying that people who go through at a lower rank should get better drops then people at a higher rank?

sorry but thats even worse

you are once again pushing the idea that you must penalize higher ranked players for being in a lower dungeon

the fact that the dungeon is lower is enough, the drops form the 50 are what we are gonna want, but you just can not tell people that they arent allowed to get the same drops cuz they are higher level

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Are you saying that WoW's heroic dungeons are not a good design? They give better drops and novelty items as opposed to non-heroic mode and seems to satisfy everyone. While this is even better than heroics because the fact that an optional cap does not make the content old and trivial when they raise the level limit.

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

Are you saying that WoW's heroic dungeons are not a good design? They give better drops and novelty items as opposed to non-heroic mode and seems to satisfy everyone. While this is even better than heroics because the fact that an optional cap does not make the content old and trivial when they raise the level limit.

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the dungeon scales BY CHOICE though
kinda like the difficulty slider we have for leves

you know the thing i keep mentioning

which is about CHOICE

and not being forced to be penalized, like you suggest, because im over the level range of the dungeon

The only reason I would personally see the NEED for a level cap is if you had to complete the r30 dungeon to unlock the r50. THEN you have reason to cap a player's level.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

The only reason I would personally see the NEED for a level cap is if you had to complete the r30 dungeon to unlock the r50. THEN you have reason to cap a player's level.

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So forced cap on your first time in in order to be able to go to the level 50 content? I think it's even worse because someone might be stuck at this level 30 dungeon while not offering a way out. So it might penalize some people as opposed to my solution giving everyone the chance to go through but rewarding players who beat the content under cap with items that doesn't break the game.

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

So forced cap on your first time in in order to be able to go to the level 50 content? I think it's even worse because someone might be stuck at this level 30 dungeon while not offering a way out. So it might penalize some people as opposed to my solution giving everyone the chance to go through but rewarding players who beat the content under cap with items that doesn't break the game.

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You're still giving preferential treatment to one group of players and how is that fair or balanced? And anyone who got 'stuck' on a 4 man r30 dungeon has no business trying an arguably harder 8 man r50 dungeon.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

You're still giving preferential treatment to one group of players and how is that fair or balanced? And anyone who got 'stuck' on a 4 man r30 dungeon has no business trying an arguably harder 8 man r50 dungeon.

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Lol while I tend to agree with you, this is the point of view of capped content. So in order to please everyone and people who wants to be able to go through content while being higher level (because maybe for those people the level 50 dungeons will be too challenging for now so they will wait later when the max level is raised to complete it) offering to voluntarily put a cap on their level for the run and giving them slightly better/non game-breaking rewards is a good way to please both (think of heroics in WoW but with better replay value with expansions and max level raise)

People who just want to go through content will be pleased enough with their reward. Those who wants a challenge but still be rewarded for their effort will be able to do so in those capped runs while not giving them such an advantage over others that it makes capped runs mandatory.

Of course, right now the level 50 dungeon is capped to level 50 so either make the special rewards available now OR later after the level cap is raised so it gives those dungeons (assuming there will be more coming) a replay value.

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

Lol while I tend to agree with you, this is the point of view of capped content. So in order to please everyone and people who wants to be able to go through content while being higher level (because maybe for those people the level 50 dungeons will be too challenging for now so they will wait later when the max level is raised to complete it) offering to voluntarily put a cap on their level for the run and giving them slightly better/non game-breaking rewards is a good way to please both (think of heroics in WoW but with better replay value with expansions and max level raise)

People who just want to go through content will be pleased enough with their reward. Those who wants a challenge but still be rewarded for their effort will be able to do so in those capped runs while not giving them such an advantage over others that it makes capped runs mandatory.

Of course, right now the level 50 dungeon is capped to level 50 so either make the special rewards available now OR later after the level cap is raised so it gives those dungeons (assuming there will be more coming) a replay value.

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I wouldn't be pleased to know that capped players were getting special rewards for running a capped dungeon.

I don't think you are going to convince me on this issue. It's going to be one of those things that the community is torn down the middle on.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

I wouldn't be pleased to know that capped players were getting special rewards for running a capped dungeon.

I don't think you are going to convince me on this issue. It's going to be one of those things that the community is torn down the middle on.

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Well those rewards are also available to you if you want, you just need to run the capped dungeons. No? Like I said, it wouldn't be game-breaking rewards, just an incentive to do so. Maybe just an achievement would be better than nothing at this point.

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

Well those rewards are also available to you if you want, you just need to run the capped dungeons. No? Like I said, it wouldn't be game-breaking rewards, just an incentive to do so. Maybe just an achievement would be better than nothing at this point.

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Seems to be a moot point. French Devs confirm that dungeons will be uncapped: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...331#post192331

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

Seems to be a moot point. French Devs confirm that dungeons will be uncapped: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...331#post192331

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and thus it ends

Take care not to choke on your smugness.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

Take care not to choke on your smugness.

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Who is being smug?

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

Who is being smug?

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i dont know, but im snug in my chair bundled up in blankets

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

and thus it ends

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It does indeed lol But that doesn't mean that they can't put it at a later time to increase the replay value of their dungeons. This is still a suggestion/feedback forum to get ideas to the dev. They would be crazy to shot down ideas that increase the value of their game and hard work.

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

It does indeed lol But that doesn't mean that they can't put it at a later time to increase the replay value of their dungeons. This is still a suggestion/feedback forum to get ideas to the dev. They would be crazy to shot down ideas that increase the value of their game and hard work.

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Possibly, though I wouldn't want to distract them from improving the game and developing content just to go back and recycle old content.

I think the simplest solution has eluded the masses.

Range limitations.

ex:
- No 30,30,30,50 groups in the lower dungeon.
- Once level cap is inevitably raised, no 50,50,50,99 groups in the second dungeon.

At the very least, a range limitation of no more than, say, 10 levels, could mostly eliminate a fair amount of 'power dungeoning' while leaving the faceroll community to do as they please.

To the people clamoring for the freedom to easymode the lower dungeon upon release, this will leave you to enjoy the content however you please.

For those that seek a challenge, and an appropriate reward for their current level, simply participate in the quest at the lower level.

The only group this eliminates is those who want the latter rewards without the effort. If you are of this group, then I count your argument as invalid, period. Go cry somewhere else.

Counterpoint?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ikijha

I think the simplest solution has eluded the masses.

Range limitations.

ex:
- No 30,30,30,50 groups in the lower dungeon.
- Once level cap is inevitably raised, no 50,50,50,99 groups in the second dungeon.

At the very least, a range limitation of no more than, say, 10 levels, could mostly eliminate a fair amount of 'power dungeoning' while leaving the faceroll community to do as they please.

To the people clamoring for the freedom to easymode the lower dungeon upon release, this will leave you to enjoy the content however you please.

For those that seek a challenge, and an appropriate reward for their current level, simply participate in the quest at the lower level.

The only group this eliminates is those who want the latter rewards without the effort. If you are of this group, then I count your argument as invalid, period. Go cry somewhere else.

Counterpoint?

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Could work, but seems like it would be hard to do with the current Armoury system.