XIV:ARR what SE could change to make the XI Playerbase more Happy

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Originally Posted by Kazamoto

Then seekers came out, and added CRAFTABLE weapons you could buy on the auction house for a relative pittance (compared to the cost of a relic).

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And now RME weapons are back to being on top, so now's the time to head back to Vana'diel, boyo

Although you're saying that you don't want it to turn into FFXI, the problem with your posts is that you're asking so many changes in the game that it would become a spiritual successor to FFXI.

So in essence, yes, you are asking for this game to become FFXI but without the tag.

No offense but there were plenty of movements in alpha and beta about this and they were shot down in flames. It won't happen. The quicker you realize this, the better you can set your mind to accept it and choose which game you want to play.

I understand the need to have a game to go on from FFXI since apparently some of the expansions destroyed that game. But to ask this game to do it, is not right. It's not in the spirit of what the devs that took over want it to be.

So please, I implore people...just move on.

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Originally Posted by Amiantos

So what you're saying is not even FFXI wants to be FFXI anymore? I wish people would get this already.

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^^^^^^^

1,000,000 times THIS!!!

Edit: The thing is, I support good ideas from XI. I support making more varied endgame activities similar to "Trigger" spawn HNMs, Dynamis, Eihnerjar (sp?), Limbus, Sky (instanced instead of competitive to reduce @$$hattery), Sea (ditto), etc.

What I don't support is copying over the terribad SYSTEMS from XI:
Slow combat? Heckano. 2.5 GCD is already FAR too slow IMO.
Skillchains? Sure, provided that they don't slow the current pace of combat; having people chain off of a LB is a better idea than multiple LBs, BTW.
Exp parties? No way, no how, not in a million years. FATE grinding already serves essentially the same function, only it has the benefit of variety, and ease of joining/leaving parties with little to no drama.
Gear switching? There aren't words to describe how terrible that idea was. The only reason long term XI white knights support it is that it added longevity to the flat nature of the endgame. (Stated clearly: it put purpose to the pointless loots and retarded itemization in nearly all gear in that game) Note: all your complaints on gear lead back to the same thing: demanding that the endgame itemization be so awful that you have to get 8 sets of gear to make a single, worthwhile item set for your character. Protip: that was awful game design at the time, and still is.
More stats? Only on Materia, so that multi-melded materia gear has an actual purpose.
Open world endgame content? Heeeeecka no. The douchebaggery and @$$hattery that sky/sea created led even XI to be instanced in later expansions. Think about that: EVEN XI BECAME INSTANCED BECAUSE SKY/SEA WERE SO BAD. I wish you guys would think about that and realize what it means.

Really, the above bolded items really are not good features, but rather liking them is a result of "MMO Stockholm Syndrome." You chose to play XI when there were better-designed options on the market, and so you had to convince yourself that these design flaws really were features that were worthwhile. The thing is, even the XI team realized that they were flaws/bugs, and so over time even THEY have phased them out of existence. It's truly sad that you guys have MMOSS so badly that you can't see the forest for the trees on this.

Hint: XI was DYING. That, and that only, is the reason why Abyssea came out and changed the fundamental design structure of the game. XI can't even hold the hard core white knight fans anymore, and the above systems are exactly why. The game is just not that well designed, by today's standards. Even at the time it was a FF skin on the themes developed by EQ and other major games in the Genre. The only truly unique thing that XI introduced was the Job change system, and guess what? It's still here in XIV.

".) Give us more extra stats like:"

I dunno if you look over at gamerscape wiki and browse through the item list up to lv 50 with the mentality of items that were only in the game up to 50 before RoTZ it seems that statistical boost from gear is exactly like XI. The reason why we don't have things like axe skill, enfeebling skill etc etc is because XIV doesn't use the combat skill system so there is no need to have those "statistical boost" in the game yet since they don't exist as variables.

As for others like Haste, "abilities which improve a skill you might already have", Store TP, etc etc, they are things we may see later on, in higher level gear, as the level cap increases since XI followed that same design, gear which altered those statistical attributes weren't introduced til later on because there is no need to overcomplicate the gear system from the start, you keep it simple and as time progresses you add in more variables/statistical boost to add to the dynamics.

Though to be fair, we already have haste in the game via skill/spell speed attribute.

@Airget
You are right, my Extra Stats would only work out with the specific Battlesystem.

But if we stop talking about this Point and going more into the Open World part. Alliance Battles outside of Dungeons?

The current Dungeon System blocking FC/LS to get bigger and doing Stuff with other People:

Example: BCOB
We have a Timer System. You go in with a full PT and clear it. You cant go back in there and help out other People from your FC in this Week. Why i am forced to rotate Members every Week to Keep everyone happy?

Isnt it easier for the Community to have a Sky or Sea Area where you can spawn a Boss, kill him and the Loot goes into a Treasure Loot and you switching in People and let them get their stuff? With the Right % droprate and Balance it will also Keep People Busy.

Correct me if i am wrong ^^

FFXI isn't FFXI anymore but its game mechanics are more like FFXI vanilla than FFXIV could ever hope.
You have way more chance asking for a special FFXI vanilla server than asking for FFXIV to turn into the next FFXI-2 vanilla flavour.
I left FFXI for a reason (though I enjoyed it) and I didn't come to FFXIV to have a FFXI clone.

I ask again, Why would SE want to compete with themselves for subs?

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Originally Posted by Arkune

Is it his own game? or just a clone from another common MMORPG to make Moneyfor a short period of time? Think about it.

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SE is struggling financially wise. They released this game. It bombed and they remade it. The spent over 150,000,000 dollars on this project. Trust me when I say that they don't intend for this game to be a "Quick money scheme." You don't invest 150,000,000 dollars in an attempt to make "quick money" for a "Short period of time." They need to get back the investment and profit off it. Which means they have every intent to see this game succeed.

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Originally Posted by BoomerOU

I loved XI but I couldn't handle another 'auto-attack' based battle system which is why I only lasted a week in 1.0.

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There was no auto-attack at the beginning of 1.0
For each attack (WS and standard attack to build up TP), you needed to press a button.
Auto-attack came later during summer 2011 I think

The one thing I like about FFXIV is how casual and straightforward it is.

I know that makes me a heathen but after playing Korean MMOs for years, I can't stand more than a few minutes of grinding - and I've heard FFXI is on the grindy side of things.

I'm all for the open-ended stuff though.

I had this nicely written up response, but then deleted and figured it's just not worth my time to point out some of the flaws of the OP's suggestions. I'll just say I disagree with many of the suggestions the OP has suggested and leave it at that.

Everyone's got opinions.

Oh, as to the comparison to FF14 and SWTOR.. SWTOR dropped below 1,000,000 in 3 months. It's been about 3 months and we rose 500,000 in the last month alone to have a population of 1,500,000.

Stopped reading at "building TP to use weaponskills".

I'm not sue WHY XIV should be changed to "make the XI player base happy"

Shouldn't XI be the one making changes to keep its playerbase happy?

Question: what can SE change to make the XI Playerbase more Happy?

Answer:
Step 1. Keep FFXIV:ARR the way it is
Step 2. Merge the players on current FFXI servers so they can become populated again
Step 3. Use the remaining servers to create a Vanilla FFXI instance for players who are nostalgic for old FFXI
Step 4. Everyone wins!

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Originally Posted by NovaUltimatum

Question: what can SE change to make the XI Playerbase more Happy?

Answer:
Step 1. Keep FFXIV:ARR the way it is
Step 2. Merge the players on current FFXI servers so they can become populated again
Step 3. Use the remaining servers to create a Vanilla FFXI instance for players who are nostalgic for old FFXI
Step 4. Everyone wins!

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Aside from the poor FFXI developers who have to try and fix bugs in two divergent code bases D= Won't anyone think of the developers! *crickets*

Well like I said you're asking for something unique but we only have the very base game at this time. Once we get a few patches under our belt we'll see where the direction of the game is going. The stuff you mentioned like mounts and such have been in many games before and after WoW. WoW just kind of popularized the system. Dunno why. They're just mounts but meh.

If you want to help make this game better it's probably better to try to help it earn its own identity instead of asking to make it similar to a game many years past it's prime. You'd probably have better luck convincing 11 to turn back to old 11 than you would getting Yoshida and his team to put things into this game they seem very against.

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Originally Posted by Reslin

Oh, as to the comparison to FF14 and SWTOR.. SWTOR dropped below 1,000,000 in 3 months. It's been about 3 months and we rose 500,000 in the last month alone to have a population of 1,500,000.

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FWIW, we are not at 1.5mil subscribers. We're at "over 600,000".

FFXI is an outdated MMO that lack a lot of things, why should SE make XIV more like XI to make XI players happy?

make no sense.

XIV already has more subscribers than XI at its peak. stop crying about XIV not being a niche game like the one you love. XIV is not XI-2, if you love XI that much you can play XI, the servers still running.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

FFXI is an outdated MMO that lack a lot of things, why should SE make XIV more like XI to make XI players happy?

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Not all old bones FF11 players agree with OP. I personally only want the famous main job / sub job system to be back into the game. Get rid of FATE mindless exp grinding and put back really meaningful HNM hunting.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Are you telling me that TERA didn't use concepts from WoW?

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Beside UI layout, no, not really. Its combat system is far more advance than most of MMOs. Its downside is lacking of a good story with signficant story NPCs.

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Originally Posted by NovaUltimatum

Question: what can SE change to make the XI Playerbase more Happy?

Answer:
Step 1. Keep FFXIV:ARR the way it is
Step 2. Merge the players on current FFXI servers so they can become populated again
Step 3. Use the remaining servers to create a Vanilla FFXI instance for players who are nostalgic for old FFXI
Step 4. Everyone wins!

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Bingo. I'll be incredibly happy if they have a server that stops at CoP or ToAU.

If they want to play FFXI so much why don't they just go play it...

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Originally Posted by Evangela

if you love XI that much you can play XI, the servers still running.

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Originally Posted by TeganLaron

If they want to play FFXI so much why don't they just go play it...

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In case you (and everyone else posting this) is still puzzled, when people here are saying they miss stuff from FFXI they're talking about old FFXI not the new current version of FFXI. It's being brought up here instead of the FFXI forums because there's more traffic/attention to be brought up to the masses on these forums (and it's still managed by SE, who are responsible for any overall changes).

Hence, I suggested they add two separate versions of FFXI to satisfy the players (and get some profits while at it):

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Originally Posted by NovaUltimatum

Question: what can SE change to make the XI Playerbase more Happy?

Answer:
Step 1. Keep FFXIV:ARR the way it is
Step 2. Merge the players on current FFXI servers so they can become populated again
Step 3. Use the remaining servers to create a Vanilla FFXI instance for players who are nostalgic for old FFXI
Step 4. Everyone wins!

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Originally Posted by Redemption

No, it isn't. Despite your attempt to make the direction of the game my problem it is not. The development of ffxi changed directions, there is no debating that and while the old content exists it is abandoned by the community, it is no longer rewarding, and in some cases it is simply no longer possible anymore period. It is a VERY different game than it was.

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Yes the problem is you.

If XIV was a clone of XI, and added an update with bad items, you'd say "This update sucks, it is not worth going for the items".
If XIV was a clone of XI, and added an update with good items, you'd say "This update sucks, it made all my invested time pointless by replacing my items with new ones".
If XIV was a clone of XI, and never updated, you'd say "This game sucks, I've done everything and there is nothing to do".

So what should they do? Well, according to all the posters here, the solution is "redo the same game again because it was fun to play". Please realize it was fun because you hadn't played it already. I promise you that you do not want to do another relic over 2 years of grinding Dynamis.

I agree with OP. I was expecting a lot more FFXI in FFXIV. During FFXIVs down time I played a lame but cute game called Eden Eternal and it's more like FFXIV than FFXI is lol. I never had to group up for anything except dungeons, I got most my EXP to lvl up from doing fetch quests rather than actually PLAY the class/job I was trying to lvl and gear was just handed to me. (Theres even an area called The Lodestone)

actually i had wanted to counter the bad idea, but it was simpler to only see the good idea.

- the supporter role: god i wish they add it, really. but for this we will need to wait more support class released.

that all ^^
the rest are outdated idea that don't have it place in ff14. farm for days and days for get anything is fun when you have all your day at do nothing, people have family, jobs, friend, dogs... they need to take care. that don't means they don't have the right to enjoy the game.

some info you need to understand before make another mistake:
- you can hope for a raise of level in the 6-9 month coming, why? because a lot of legacy player have already every class to 50
- the content will evolve more than into ff11, every 3 month we will get content, pretty important from yoshi p words.
- more class based on new weapon added that will be added really fast (for the same reason of the legacy player ^^)
- more dungeon, more raid, more primordial, more content...

all of this for say, FF14 is not FF11 and will never be FF11

The thing is as far as exp goes, the days where we grinded for months for experience are long gone unless you're playing a KR MMO(and even they are starting to retire the system) and do you know why? Because the #1 thing to complain about in our day were the games being too grindy, experience too slow, high levels never visiting low level areas and low levels getting trapped because they couldn't level up with party content when there was no one to party with.

FF14 attempted to fix this and are continuing to try to do that. Sure you could say it was a heck an accomplishment to get certain things in 11. But is it because it took forever to do? Or because most people usually quit before they got to that point in the game?


There are some things that could come back from 11, this is essentially an FF tribute game after all. But they have to make sure it works with how this game is already built. They rebuilt the game once. I don't think they'll do it again to appease people who are holding on to how FF 11 was once upon a time.

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Originally Posted by ashikenshin

seems he hasn't as this isn't close to being like wow. Though I cannot say for certain as I stopped playing after about mid cataclysm.

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Its got similarities but its different. I feel ff14 is similar to wow during vanilla stages to karazhan. Still have to do a pretty good amount of raiding and etc for gear which I prefer much over doing 10-15 dailies for a substantial amount of epic gear. Being given things easily is not as rewarding as earning things the hard way, I would say. However, that is an opinion and not all will agree with that.

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Originally Posted by NovaUltimatum

Step 3. Use the remaining servers to create a Vanilla FFXI instance for players who are nostalgic for old FFXI

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Which goes against the very idea of an MMO being a growing, ever-changing world. It just wouldn't be viable to support and maintain a whole system that took back years of bug fixes for a very small minority of the population.

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Originally Posted by Nahara

Which goes against the very idea of an MMO being a growing, ever-changing world. It just wouldn't be viable to support and maintain a whole system that took back years of bug fixes so a very small minority of the population.

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You can find EQ1 servers that does this. The server starts as vanilla, as opposed to containing 11 expansions, and upgrades to the next expansion after a community vote. Its incredibly popular among that community, and an all around success.

At this point SE needs to make changes to make regular players happy.

1) Boring end game

speed run ak/wp to death
titan lag fight
finding 8 players with specific jobs to do bahamuts coil

2) Boring leveling
fate zerg

Battle system

Spam Rage of halone combos
99 percent of the fights where dd just use dps limit break to finish off fights.

All I want is /jobemote.

One word: Communicate.

SE PR/Communications department seems pretty non-existent, which is quite disappointing. As many have pointed out on these forums and other areas online, SE clearly does not believe in communicating with its consumers and fanbase.

They should also invest in better Customer Support. I rate it pretty poorly alongside the many big companies that have fallen in recent years.

What was there about WoW that is/was unique JUST to WoW?

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

What was there about WoW that is/was unique JUST to WoW?

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The lore. That's really it. Lol

Everything in RPG's get copied and improved. It's what the genre does to keep from getting stale.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

Yes the problem is you.

If XIV was a clone of XI, and added an update with bad items, you'd say "This update sucks, it is not worth going for the items".
If XIV was a clone of XI, and added an update with good items, you'd say "This update sucks, it made all my invested time pointless by replacing my items with new ones".
If XIV was a clone of XI, and never updated, you'd say "This game sucks, I've done everything and there is nothing to do".

So what should they do? Well, according to all the posters here, the solution is "redo the same game again because it was fun to play". Please realize it was fun because you hadn't played it already. I promise you that you do not want to do another relic over 2 years of grinding Dynamis.

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Except that I didn't complain about a single thing in ffxi clear up until abyssea. Also my favorite update in ffxi from recent history added the meeble burrows which offered only sidegrade gear but the content I thought was way fun. Furthermore, if ANY game never updated that is a pretty bad situation for an MMO to be in so that hasn't got anything to do with ffxi.

What I think they should do here (as in on this game) is to make it more appealing in the ffxi style. This can be done without a "redo" of anything. Lastly, I would have zero problems with relic being that way again so long as it existed the same way it did in ffxi before they made them easier to obtain (as a weapon you did not need for anything, it was overkill).

Lets try this the other way around, as we all are sticking to the same arguments and going in circles.

Please consider the following:

What if Blizzard were to release WoW2 next week, and it was a clone of EQ1, with upgraded graphics and Warcraft lore. And then released an expansion to WoW1 that made every accomplishment the players had up until that point moot.

Would you expect players new of WoW2 to not complain about the drastic shift in styles? Would you not expect them to ask about features that existed before but are now missing?

Lets say its not WoW2, but World of StarCraft, but again, an EQ clone rather than WoW style.

Would you not expect the players of WoW to not be on the WoS forums asking why familar features are suddenly missing?

You may not have a problem with stuff taking 2 years to do but i'm sure a lot of people do. Considering the number 1 complaint when games were about grinding was that the grind was too long.

FF 14 shouldn't become more like FF XI at all. Maybe some nods to the game like they did with the races and Shanttoto. FF 14 should become unique in its own way. The FF XI playerbase has very little to do with this game. I know you don't want to hear that but it's true. This is a brand new game now for a different kind of playerbase. This game was never made for you. They just added a few things to make it more comfortable to move to if you so chose.

Edit at Kazamoto : WoW 2 is WoW 2, if it were FF online and FF online 2 maybe things could be understandable. But they are two different games, Do you think people want Diablo to become WoW? I haven't seen people ask that ever. Do you think they asked WoW to be like Warcraft 3? Doubtful, or perhaps WoW to be like Diablo? No that never happened.

It was an OPTIONAL grind, like achievements. Frankly, I do not care if people have a problem with that as it is impossible to avoid having some content that not all players will reach.

You simply could not be any more wrong about that than you are. The playerbase is different, but much of it still migrated over from ffxi or were ffxi players at some point. Whats more, how can the game possibly become unique in any way when people shoehorn it into making the same choices we already have in wow and the other games that tried to capture its success but refuse anything that isn't? SE knew that ffxi players would be coming here at the very least with the original release (races were designed to be familiar to xi players, there was a co-sub program to get people in the door) to so it would be ridiculous to assume the game had no intention at all to draw of of the ffxi playerbase.

Comment on your edit: Actually there were tons of complaints about diablo 3 being wowified and a number of people early on wanting diablo elements in WoW.