This is why you're dying on Titan.

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Originally Posted by MieyCyruuuus

"it happens to me so it must happen to everyone else"

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Go twerk up against Titan some more. :D

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Originally Posted by TeganLaron

Yep, I've noticed this too. I used to wonder why the hell no one would ever dodge it as I'd be Esuna-ing them every battle, then it finally did it to me and I saw there is just no dodging it. I'd say this one is actually probably worse than Titan, it's just that nobody cares as it is on such an easy battle. But it does show the sort of problems that are there throughout the game.

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I suspect the usage of that ability is just to ensure your group is spread out and the recipient isn't meant to dodge it, which is why it doesn't just kill you in one hit unlike say, Landslide. That'd actually be an appropriate use of the game's 'lag' factor.

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Originally Posted by Magiseanzz

I definitely agree with this. On a related note, every time I see the first boss in WP cast that circular attack that does the reduced immunity damage/effect, I already start casting Esuna on the player. Most of the time, that player simply can't get out of it in time. Either the circle is too wide or the timer is too short, but that attack is unforgiving. Any healer who's run that enough times can vouch for the imbalance in doge:not-dodged ratio there.

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Ya, I can even dodge plumes when my connection is being good, but I have yet to be able to get out of the circle. One run I did it with an ls mate with him as whm, and he said he noticed on his side that when I go to move he sees my character run in place a little bit before moving. He then noticed the same animation on titan a few times.

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Originally Posted by reality_check

Why are you still here? No one said it's happening to everyone. We're saying it's a huge flaw with the coding in this game. If you can't see how it's broken that I can run around casting Esuna without stopping i don't know what to say.

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The Esuna test should be linked top of thread, though I suspect the guys saying there are no problems would probably think there's nothing wrong with the game to be able to cast Esuna while on autorun.

There are only 3 solutions to the lag problems, in order of importance. Any one of these is acceptable to me. Your move SE.

1. Remove the artificial .3 second latency. Adding 300ms to my latency is the most ridiculous thing ever. It's like saying "Here, drive this car but the controls for gas, brake and steering all work .3 seconds late." You know what would happen? A CAR ACCIDENT!

I get 80-100ms ping to ARR servers however the experience in ARR compared to the same ping in say, League of Legends is COMPLETELY noticeable. If a F2P game like League can have better position coding and responsiveness, so can you. And League has MORE PLAYERS.

2. Increase the cast time on unforgiving boss abilities *cough*landslide*cough*. I am saying make them longer by .3-.5 seconds. This would allow players that have up to 200ms natural latency have time to move plus an extra 300ms in case their last position check was 299ms ago while they were still moving out of an ability. 300ms in this game, while only a third of a second, can be about 3-8 feet of in game movement. Though, theres no real way to measure this now.

3. I am aware player position is already checked client side and sent to the server since there is no clear rubber banding and the teleport hack was made so quickly but maybe if the latency is causing people to die, move the position calculation to the server side. This would kill 2 birds with one stone. It would remove teleporters and the only thing that would change is that player input would be sent to the server rather than their coordinates.
This would be the most complicated of the 3 and therefore least desirable because it could add in a noticeable rubber band for high latency players.

I will say it again people who swear they don't have issues with this, If SE changed Titan to have a RNG mechanic, say Plumes could just happen whenever as long as the skill CD is up, do you really think you would still dodge that ability with ease. I'd wager the answer would be no. Right now the delay is easy to work around BECAUSE THE BOSSES ARE SO PREDICTABLE. You know exactly what is coming next it NEVER CHANGES. It is a locked in stone pattern EVERY SINGLE TIME. That basically means if you know the pattern of the fight then you actually have MORE than the lost time from the Desync to get out of the skills way. I'd be willing to be if SE released a boss with RNG AI that a lot of you who SWEAR up and down the lag doesn't happen to you would suddenly get a problem. (Btw it isn't that you don't get the lag, you're just used to working around it)

Memorization should not be required simply because otherwise why even have the telegraph circles? I'm pretty sure I can dodge WotL even if there was no graphics on them because the telegraph circles were never very useful due to lag. This is simply a bad design. If you put telegraph circles the implication is that seeing them and reacting on time ought to be enough, even though it is clearly not. In fact, the telegraph circles are generally so inadequate that even if they didn't exist, you probably still won't do any worse.

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Originally Posted by TeganLaron

Yep, I've noticed this too. I used to wonder why the hell no one would ever dodge it as I'd be Esuna-ing them every battle, then it finally did it to me and I saw there is just no dodging it. I'd say this one is actually probably worse than Titan, it's just that nobody cares as it is on such an easy battle. But it does show the sort of problems that are there throughout the game.

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Actually, I regularly dodge this with my shitty 7mbps down/.5 mbps up internet – if you move immediately and in a straight line out of the AoE it's pretty easy to avoid. I do agree that it seems unforgiving though, but it's just a matter of responding immediately.

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Originally Posted by ufufu

Actually, I regularly dodge this with my shitty 7mbps down/.5 mbps up internet – if you move immediately and in a straight line out of the AoE it's pretty easy to avoid. I do agree that it seems unforgiving though, but it's just a matter of responding immediately.

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Shouldn't have to take extreme measures to overcome something that is extremely broken tho.

Yes, you can dodge everything, every single attack from titan and all those fart bombs. But, why should we go out of our way to make sure we dont get hit, even if we had been out for on ocassions over a second?

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Originally Posted by NeruMew

Shouldn't have to take extreme measures to overcome something that is extremely broken tho.

Yes, you can dodge everything, every single attack from titan and all those fart bombs. But, why should we go out of our way to make sure we dont get hit, even if we had been out for on ocassions over a second?

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Yeah it's not whether someone can dodge or not, it's just bad game play.

A part of me is temporarily cool with it because everything is so predictable, but then there's the simple fact that this game was clearly built with the mindset of reacting to and evading attacks on the fly. I'd likely be in a bit of trouble if I couldn't preemptively move from attacks that I knew were coming in the next second or so, and it is primarily because this game is so wonky with hitboxes and client/server synchronicity.

But in theory, I'd love encounters with tough bosses that had no single set in stone rotation. I just very much doubt this game will ever be able to accomplish that in a satisfying manner.

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Originally Posted by Nanaya

A part of me is temporarily cool with it because everything is so predictable, but then there's the simple fact that this game was clearly built with the mindset of reacting to and evading attacks on the fly. I'd likely be in a bit of trouble if I couldn't preemptively move from attacks that I knew were coming in the next second or so, and it is primarily because this game is so wonky with hitboxes and client/server synchronicity.

But in theory, I'd love encounters with tough bosses that had no single set in stone rotation. I just very much doubt this game will ever be able to accomplish that in a satisfying manner.

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I lovely read in amidst of all the dumb posts, "DER I CAN DODGE TITAN. THIS IS YOUR ISPS FAULT."

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Originally Posted by Doo

Yeah it's not whether someone can dodge or not, it's just bad game play.

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I must add, that this one second delay usually implies being out of the targeted AoE for sometimes, over 1x its diameter (at the very least 1x its radius - considering circular AoEs), and in extreme ocassions, over twice AND not only that, but also 1 second means 60% of the cast time.

I haven't had many issues with Titan, or lag in general, but I've seen people die because of lagspikes, even if they know the rotation and react in a timely fashion. My heart goes out to you.

SE should make Titan susceptible to Slow. Give Feint a reason to exist and give everyone an extra split second to dodge. Unfortunately, I don't see it happening, and by the time SE "addresses" (i.e. nerfs) Titan, their solution will be allowing Plumes to be stunned.

I tried to draw attention from IGN for this issue, since S-E isn't willing to help maybe if there's the external media involved things can change.

I have a question about Weight of the land. Are those plume locations based on where everyone is at? The reason I ask this is because the times when everyone is spread out, it seems like I have no where to run because the plumes are everywhere. The times that I can dodge it flawlessly is when everyone is basically kinda packed close together.

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Originally Posted by Meta

I haven't had many issues with Titan, or lag in general, but I've seen people die because of lagspikes, even if they know the rotation and react in a timely fashion. My heart goes out to you.

SE should make Titan susceptible to Slow. Give Feint a reason to exist and give everyone an extra split second to dodge. Unfortunately, I don't see it happening, and by the time SE "addresses" (i.e. nerfs) Titan, their solution will be allowing Plumes to be stunned.

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Sorry but the solution is NOT fixing Titan. The issue here lies further within the game, I cannot tell you for sure, but it should be proof enough that this issue is not affecting Titan encounter, but the game play overall. Position needs to refresh faster, or in a more effective way, atleast inside instanced zones (because "open world" content is not anywhere as unforgiving as instanced content is, and open world in between quotes because honestly every zone is instanced, and if I'm not wrong SE has stated this already).

P.S.: YES! I know it all, so thereby I can tell you what is and is not, what's right and what's wrong.

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Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

I have a question about Weight of the land. Are those plume locations based on where everyone is at? The reason I ask this is because the times when everyone is spread out, it seems like I have no where to run because the plumes are everywhere. The times that I can dodge it flawlessly is when everyone is basically kinda packed close together.

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Plumes are casted on top of individual targets. Towards the end of the encounter (what people call phase five, and it's progression) more plumes are casted and the arena is smaller, making it harder to dodge? but only if not spread properly, you should not move if they don't spawn under you.

Read plumes as Weight of the Land spell. XD

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Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

I have a question about Weight of the land. Are those plume locations based on where everyone is at? The reason I ask this is because the times when everyone is spread out, it seems like I have no where to run because the plumes are everywhere. The times that I can dodge it flawlessly is when everyone is basically kinda packed close together.

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WotL is cast at the player's position, but this too is subject to the same lag. The server decides the current position roughly 0.3s before the graphics is rendered in your screen, so if people are moving around it can seem that the circles are dropped in totally random places.

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Originally Posted by Astarica

WotL is cast at the player's position, but this too is subject to the same lag. The server decides the current position roughly 0.3s before the graphics is rendered in your screen, so if people are moving around it can seem that the circles are dropped in totally random places.

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And then depending on your lag the circles either give you enough time to see them to react and get out, appear for a brief second and then hurt you or they don't appear at all and you get creamed anyways.

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Originally Posted by Astarica

WotL is cast at the player's position, but this too is subject to the same lag. The server decides the current position roughly 0.3s before the graphics is rendered in your screen, so if people are moving around it can seem that the circles are dropped in totally random places.

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Originally Posted by NeruMew

Plumes are casted on top of individual targets. Towards the end of the encounter (what people call phase five, and it's progression) more plumes are casted and the arena is smaller, making it harder to dodge? but only if not spread properly, you should not move if they don't spawn under you.

Read plumes as Weight of the Land spell. XD

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Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Maoxx

I will say it again people who swear they don't have issues with this, If SE changed Titan to have a RNG mechanic, say Plumes could just happen whenever as long as the skill CD is up, do you really think you would still dodge that ability with ease. I'd wager the answer would be no. Right now the delay is easy to work around BECAUSE THE BOSSES ARE SO PREDICTABLE. You know exactly what is coming next it NEVER CHANGES. It is a locked in stone pattern EVERY SINGLE TIME. That basically means if you know the pattern of the fight then you actually have MORE than the lost time from the Desync to get out of the skills way. I'd be willing to be if SE released a boss with RNG AI that a lot of you who SWEAR up and down the lag doesn't happen to you would suddenly get a problem. (Btw it isn't that you don't get the lag, you're just used to working around it)

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I went in Titan blind, no idea when the plumes would happen and still dodged it, I went in to coil turn 2 blind, dodged AOEs. Like I said before, I am not questioning whether people are really having the issue or not. I'm just saying I rarely get ANY lag. My setup isn't special. What makes me (and others who have no issues) different from those who swear up and down it is game-wide?

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Originally Posted by Kitfox

Isn't lag something that happens between you and the server? I don't think SE decides the route your connection takes nor manages every hop in between, as I've heard a few of my friends significantly improving their connection by using a VPN service. I still don't see how the lag is SE's fault. The 0.3 sec position checking certain doesn't cause problems as severe as shown in the OP.

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nop
the time between you and the server is 100~200 ms for over 90% of the players!!!
yet the delay is 1second average!!
1second =1000ms!! thats 10x more then the time it takes between you and the server.
meaning the other 0.9sec lag comes from the server itself and also the really bad netcode they did
(its thee fault for being cheap in the servers they selected and also there fault for not having good net code programmers)

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Originally Posted by NeruMew

Plumes are casted on top of individual targets. Towards the end of the encounter (what people call phase five, and it's progression) more plumes are casted and the arena is smaller, making it harder to dodge? but only if not spread properly, you should not move if they don't spawn under you.

Read plumes as Weight of the Land spell. XD

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If you wait for the weights to spawn before you start moving, then unless you use sprint there's 50% chance that you're already dead..
dont forget non-casters cant use sprint.

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Originally Posted by coffeepotz

I went in Titan blind, no idea when the plumes would happen and still dodged it, I went in to coil turn 2 blind, dodged AOEs. Like I said before, I am not questioning whether people are really having the issue or not. I'm just saying I rarely get ANY lag. My setup isn't special. What makes me (and others who have no issues) different from those who swear up and down it is game-wide?

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That's what I want to know.

I wish there was a fix for PS3 that when you zoom out on Titan....you stayed zoomed out! None of this auto zoom back in BS!

I don't have a problem dodging plumes. Even when i play with 5 second screen locks. If you know the fight, any type of small lag doesn't even matter.

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Originally Posted by ufufu

That's what I want to know.

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I couldn't say for sure on FF14 but lag compensation coding is used in other gaming formats, it's used to throttle back quick internet connections to make a fair playing field in PvP content. The problem is it's an absolute mine field once you start trying to artifically give everyone the same amount of lag. CoD developers denied it was happening for years until players with the right networking/video editing skills and knowledge started posting evidence on youtube using expensive recording equipment.

The only solution as I see it is to make games challenging but without resorting to expecting players to react in less than a second. Don't create a mechanic that takes the healer out of a 4 man fight less than one minute in (hello Titan) where the survival rate of said healer is almost totally decided by lag. That's just asking for trouble quite frankly.

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Originally Posted by coffeepotz

I went in Titan blind, no idea when the plumes would happen and still dodged it, I went in to coil turn 2 blind, dodged AOEs. Like I said before, I am not questioning whether people are really having the issue or not. I'm just saying I rarely get ANY lag. My setup isn't special. What makes me (and others who have no issues) different from those who swear up and down it is game-wide?

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You have yourself a pretty decent connection to the game when that is going on.

The issue is that being the internet and all, a lot of people will not have a perfect connection. FFXIV's network protocol starts to breakdown fast when you start to have packet loss, increased jitter, etc. Most of MMOs are able to deal with less then perfect connections, which is why they don't have as many issues.

This is also why people playing with a VPN will have improved experiences. Your game data is getting tunneled more efficiently from your house to the VPN server, and then going the rest of the way to SE. A VPN will also mask the data in such a way that it will not appear like any other protocol, and hence backbone circuits don't have any QoS to lower it (if any backbone providers out there are somehow lowering FFXIV network priority).

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Originally Posted by Misaky

nop
the time between you and the server is 100~200 ms for over 90% of the players!!!
yet the delay is 1second average!!
1second =1000ms!! thats 10x more then the time it takes between you and the server.
meaning the other 0.9sec lag comes from the server itself and also the really bad netcode they did

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I'm wondering about this.
My latency is 130 ms.
But my cast bar gets interrupted anywhere between 900 ms and 1200 ms.
Positional check is 300 ms at worst case. 0 ms at best case.
So, it makes sense that I have 300 ms different between my best case 900 ms and worst case 1200 ms.
But then I don't know why it's not 130 ms - 430 ms. Where's that additional 770 ms lag coming from?
If it's the server, then everyone should have that extra 770 ms lag, but some people seem to not have it.
I'm wondering if there is anything that I can do on my side to reduce this lag.

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Originally Posted by Crafter

I'm wondering about this.
My latency is 130 ms.
But my cast bar gets interrupted anywhere between 900 ms and 1200 ms.
Positional check is 300 ms at worst case. 0 ms at best case.
So, it makes sense that I have 300 ms different between my best case 900 ms and worst case 1200 ms.
But then I don't know why it's not 130 ms - 430 ms. Where's that additional 770 ms lag coming from?
If it's the server, then everyone should have that extra 770 ms lag, but some people seem to not have it.
I'm wondering if there is anything that I can do on my side to reduce this lag.

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You have to light 7 candles and draw the ancient symbol of Amanojaku in permanent marker onto your mousepad. Then drip the hot wax from the candles in sequence onto your keyboard while chanting the lyrics to Answers one full time through for each candle.

When that's done you have to close your eyes while dripping the blood of fresh groud chuck (preferably from a local grocer but if not available some thawed frozen beef might do) around whatever you play on (PC or PS3) in a perfect circle.

Turn off the lights and log in and you should be good. If this doesn't work then you have done something wrong or angered your Amanojaku in some way that nothing you can do short of sacrificing your character in game will help. At this point I'd recommend starting a new character and trying again.

I'd like to chime in considering I once had issues with Titan due to lag. When I first started Titan runs on my Paladin I was definitely experiencing lag, but being the MT you are stationary for most of the fight and plumes/landslides aren't really a factor, so I was able to get the win without much of an issue other then finding a good group. Garuda on the other hand was a nightmare at times due to lag, but that's another story.

Now when I geared up my BLM and attempted the Titan fight, the lag became very a big problem. Basically, if I wasn't already moving before the plumes/landslides hit (more so the plumes), I'd eat it no matter how far I was outside of the "danger" zone. Even when I would begin moving long before the moves were cast, there were still instances were I was clearly out of the way and still took the damage... The lag was certainly hindering the fight for me. In fact, the lag was so bad at times that there would be rubber-banding on my screen (where everything would freeze for a second, then the game would "catch up" by acting like everything was going in fast-forward).

I tried adjusting my network card performance settings, tried some registry tweaks I found online regarding disabling the nagle algorithim, but doing this only slightly helped and the lag was still very much a problem. At one point I joined a group and managed to get killed 3 times in a row like right off the bat, which needless to say made me quite unpopular with the rest of my party (healer left after some name calling, then I apologized and left so that the group could find a serviceable replacement... not fun).

After that last incident, I made it my mission to find out what I could do and came across a post somewhere on this board where someone mentioned a service called battleping. I was skeptical at first, but I didn't want to be "that guy" in the group any longer so I signed up and gave it a shot. I'm happy to say, the service worked and Titan is now a joke. I have zero lag during that fight and when I play in general, and no longer have to move prior to the landslides/plumes being cast. I can sit there casting, see the plume form under my feet, and move out of the way with time to spare.

I've since got my relic and occasionally join PUG's to help out since the fight is actually pretty fun once you are able to dodge by reacting as opposed to anticipating the moves which is how I'm sure the developers intended it to be. Just to be clear, I have the fastest connection available to me from my ISP as well as a high-end PC, and never had any issues with any other online games, so my service was not the problem. It seems the issue was simply the route my connection would take the reach the servers (which is where battleping comes in).

The only thing that's upsetting is that I now have to pay for the battleping service in order to make FFXIV enjoyable (which also requires a monthly fee), but it's the only thing that's worked so far. I'm not entirely familiar with VPN services but I'm sure they work in the same way, by changing the route your connection uses to reach the servers, so these services may be worth trying for anyone having problems. Just my 2 cents...

Can't wait for Extreme Primals. ^-^ That should change all these "you just memorize the pattern and move ahead of time. you're just bad at playing" attitudes.

Pardon but are you actually completing any of the Esuna casts in this video? I see the effect going off but it's not saying "Esuna has no effect!" over your head and you're not completing the GCD either.

I do agree that there is some general wonkiness as far as warning indicators and animation display vs. time of actual impact, but it doesn't seem like the server's actually allowing you to cast Esuna while running as you're claiming.

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Originally Posted by ParanoidHobo

Pardon but are you actually completing any of the Esuna casts in this video? I see the effect going off but it's not saying "Esuna has no effect!" over your head and you're not completing the GCD either.

I do agree that there is some general wonkiness as far as warning indicators and animation display vs. time of actual impact, but it doesn't seem like the server's actually allowing you to cast Esuna while running as you're claiming.

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You can't finish the Esuna as that'd completely violate the rules of this game, but the fact that your client apparently thinks you were able to cast a spell that took 1.0s while on autorun is a very strong indicator of just how laggy the game is.

For some reason this reminds me of FFXI. If you casted a spell and then moved then the spell was supposed to be canceled. BUT no matter how much you moved if you returned to the spot you started casting the spell from before the cast bar finished then the spell would still go off. It was easiest to see with the long cast time teleport spells. You could start casting, run 50 feet away and return to your original spot before cast bar filled and it would still go off. Was loads of fun for some reason.

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Originally Posted by Ladon

It's pretty disappointing to see these problems in ARR since the number one reason they decided to rebuild the game after 1.0 was to better deal with these kinds of issues.

Unfortunately I think this is beyond fixing save for another overhaul as there looks to be fundamental issues with their server-client structure again.

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The thing is...it's a very easy problem to solve: stop having instagib mechanics that make it so people with latency are automatically going to die.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Hellboy

For some reason this reminds me of FFXI. If you casted a spell and then moved then the spell was supposed to be canceled. BUT no matter how much you moved if you returned to the spot you started casting the spell from before the cast bar finished then the spell would still go off. It was easiest to see with the long cast time teleport spells. You could start casting, run 50 feet away and return to your original spot before cast bar filled and it would still go off. Was loads of fun for some reason.

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That sounds like interruption is only checked based on the difference between your starting and ending coordinates, and has nothing to do with lag. This is clearly not the case in FF14. You're not supposed to be able to cast anything while moving in this game, but it can take more than a second before your client finally tells you that.

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Originally Posted by MasamuneBranford

It's the ISP. Notice how all the other players are skipping around? The problem with FF14, is that the minimum internet speed requirement is too low. The problem is that the player's ISP isn't downloading the information fast enough. I had that happen once before too and I had to reset my router and then it ran flawlessly again. My friend has horrible ISP and other players are always skipping around and he experiences constant lag. To play FF14 right, you need at least 18 MPS internet however the game will allow much lower.

Trust me - the minimum internet speed requirements are set too low. For those complaining about lag - you're lucky you can even log in. Other characters should not be skipping around (they should be moving fluid). If you are seeing players move around, it's your own internet.

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LOL you either work for SE or just have no idea what you're talking about. Oh, Both you say?

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Originally Posted by LolitaLollipop

LOL XD you sir have a sense of humor. I like it :3 !
http://i.imgflip.com/4ll83.jpg

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This should say yalms :p

Super funny though!