Has anyone quit healing?

Gotta love every time someone brings up the creativity in PvP mode, someone else just has to spring up to "educate" everyone how PvE works differently and you can't just transfer kits 1:1. Because the first person totally didn't understand that.

Gotta love people that miss the entire point of a post.

I never said the kits could, or couldn't, transfer 1:1. I'm saying that certain concepts don't work the way PvE is designed in this game with its heavily scripted boss fights. (Things like heavy-CC kits could work if FF14 were, say, a horde fighter. Or a MOBA. lol).

Sure, maybe throw in a gap closer and a beam that won't be nearly as impactful as PvP but if people just want the visual spectacle and won't mind it being a wet noodle that doesn't do much in PvE then, more power to them...

I do agree that in general, DPS kits in PvE could use more variety - but that's independent of PvP. As for one ability proccing another, that's been tried in PvE in the past and was not received well, but I suppose there's always a chance the next time could be different...

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Gotta love people that miss the entire point of a post.

I never said the kits could, or couldn't, transfer 1:1. I'm saying that certain concepts don't work the way PvE is designed in this game with its heavily scripted boss fights. (Things like heavy-CC kits could work if FF14 were, say, a horde fighter. Or a MOBA. lol).

Sure, maybe throw in a gap closer and a beam that won't be nearly as impactful as PvP but if people just want the visual spectacle and won't mind it being a wet noodle that doesn't do much in PvE then, more power to them...

I do agree that in general, DPS kits in PvE could use more variety - but that's independent of PvP. As for one ability proccing another, that's been tried in PvE in the past and was not received well, but I suppose there's always a chance the next time could be different...

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It's not that people miss the point, it's just that you refuse to elaborate.

You said that PvP healers aren't healers but we don't know why. You said that PvE healer can't go in the same directions as PvP healers but you barely talked about those directions. PvP CC can't be brought over to PvE. You are right, cool. Who even asked that?

We want fun skills. Interactions. Less bloated kits. DPS and healing being connected. PvP has all of this and there is a lot PvE can learn from it. PvP gave every healers a different identity and PvE can easily do the same.

You just cherry picked one aspect of PvP that wouldn't work in PvE, pretended it's what people want to see in PvE and called it a day. I showed you how healer design can learn from PvP and you shrugged it all off by trying to make it look like it's just about animations and visual spectacle even though I have never mentioned any of that but focused on effects and interactions instead.

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Originally Posted by rewd

It's not that people miss the point, it's just that you refuse to elaborate.

You said that PvP healers aren't healers but we don't know why. You said that PvE healer can't go in the same directions as PvP healers but you barely talked about those directions. PvP CC can't be brought over to PvE. You are right, cool. Who even asked that?

We want fun skills. Interactions. Less bloated kits. DPS and healing being connected. PvP has all of this and there is a lot PvE can learn from it. PvP gave every healers a different identity and PvE can easily do the same.

You just cherry picked one aspect of PvP that wouldn't work in PvE, pretended it's what people want to see in PvE and called it a day. I showed you how healer design can learn from PvP and you shrugged it all off by trying to make it look like it's just about animations and visual spectacle even though I have never mentioned any of that but focused on effects and interactions instead.

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I was responding to ThorneDynasty. I don't particularly disagree with your points.

I guess the only thing I'd add is if SE does add procs/combos, I don't think it should mix healing and damage - in PVE, those sorts of abilities only end up getting used for damage or if a situation ends up pressuring them to hold it, people tend to hate taking a DPS loss for it. But the main difficulty is just convincing SE to increase DPS complexity and if you can do that, you don't need to take stuff from PVP that would feel bad in PVE - like combining a gap closer, damage move, and healing move.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

I was responding to ThorneDynasty.

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Yes, they know. Your post was still badly explained.

And then you go into 1:1 interpretation to explain why things just can't work anway? Like damage to healing is the easiest thing to adjust for PvE. Add stacks.

Or more ideally, instead of having 5 free redundant cooldown heals, they could tighten the kit to the point where not being smart with Assize/Earthly Star just means you'll lose the DPS gain from having to rely on GCD healing later. Never going to happen in this game, but ideally.

OP, I went through what you did to a degree. I've mained Scholar since sometime in ARR when I joined (started as CNJ then quickly went to SCH when I found out it existed) Shadowbringers was a VERY heavy hit to my love for the class. I still mained it then, mostly out of spite. But it wasn't as fun as it used to be. And it continued to get less and less fun for me. So when Endwalker came out I went to SGE. I found SGE fun and reminiscent of what SCH used to be. So with my static I raided as SGE for a while.

But I recently changed to AST. I needed well...something else to do other then press 1 constantly. As soon as my static got used to a fight I could literally fall asleep and let muscle memory take over. It's an over all MASSIVE flaw with how FFXIV handles healers in general right now. But at least with AST I'd be learning something new and have cards to keep me busy.

If it were not for my static, I would have swapped to BRD. I still do roulettes as BRD. I only heal when I am with my static. All other content? BRD. Well, except PvP where playing healers is actually FUN. So I am a healer main still but the vast majority of content in game I am not. And it feels bad. My whole identity as a gamer is being a healer or support role. I do it in every game I play that has those roles. It just feels really weird that this is where we are at in regards to healing in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

Balance is absolutely a detriment to the game.
Meta slaves loose their collective shit if their favourite job is like x% below some else's. Or they operate under the assumption that everyone plays perfectly therefore you don't need [x] ability. Now all we have left is [increase DPS by x%].

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It's nothing to do with meta slaves. I love optimization, min maxing and generally lean towards the better classes but I agree this game is overbalanced. I want to be able to do fun crazy things from time to time. Especially when it's fun crazy things that require you play well and reward you for using your toolkit intelligently.

It's generally more often the casual players who shout for balance the loudest. The players who barely stepped foot in Savage demanding Astrodyne nerfs or the players who don't even play tank demanding WAR nerfs because of dungeons of all things. But to be honest, I'm not attacking casuals, I think players really need to stop blaming each other for how the game is instead of the developers who are selling us a product and are meant to be the professionals at making games. We don't make the game. We certainly don't put a gun to Yoshida's head and force him to make changes that make the game worse. If a game developer is unable to determine good feedback from bad and make a high quality product, they shouldn't be in the business. It's on them.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

It's nothing to do with meta slaves. I love optimization, min maxing and generally lean towards the better classes but I agree this game is overbalanced. I want to be able to do fun crazy things from time to time. Especially when it's fun crazy things that require you play well and reward you for using your toolkit intelligently.

It's generally more often the casual players who shout for balance the loudest. The players who barely stepped foot in Savage demanding Astrodyne nerfs or the players who don't even play tank demanding WAR nerfs because of dungeons of all things. But to be honest, I'm not attacking casuals, I think players really need to stop blaming each other for how the game is instead of the developers who are selling us a product and are meant to be the professionals at making games. We don't make the game. We certainly don't put a gun to Yoshida's head and force him to make changes that make the game worse. If a game developer is unable to determine good feedback from bad and make a high quality product, they shouldn't be in the business. It's on them.

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To add a bit, I do think our community as a whole does have an unhealthy obsession with balance. Food is good and an important part of our lives, but becoming obsessed with food can lead to an unhealthy relationship with it. Game balance is much the same. It's important to have a strong balance, but becoming obsessed with attaining perfection largely means sacrificing things that have made jobs unique in the past.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

To add a bit, I do think our community as a whole does have an unhealthy obsession with balance. Food is good and an important part of our lives, but becoming obsessed with food can lead to an unhealthy relationship with it. Game balance is much the same. It's important to have a strong balance, but becoming obsessed with attaining perfection largely means sacrificing things that have made jobs unique in the past.

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My one sticking point with (lack of) balance is when said lack of balance always goes in favor of specific jobs, and never in favor of another. *cough cough* WHM always blowing chunks and AST/SCH getting unique tools that let it clown all over their competition, locking the role into a stagnant obvious meta that never changes.

As someone who has been healing almost entirely since... late Stormblood? I'd say that at this point it's less about class fantasy and more just enjoying healing. I'll admit I only really play AST because it's a lot more flavorful and interesting than the other healers because of how cards and seals work. But honestly I don't care a whole lot for any of the class design, I just like healing. If I could choose I would much rather a dark-themed healer or a eastern paint-themed healer, and from a roleplay perspective I get a lot more joy out of something like PLD or RPR. I might suggest tanking or support dps if you want to still have a meaningful role, but yeah healing could use a bit more love and attention compared to other roles. However I do not think any of them are unplayable like some do, I just think they're a bit plain and repetitive compared to many of the other more unique and intricate class designs in the game.

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Originally Posted by KikiTia

As someone who has been healing almost entirely since... late Stormblood? I'd say that at this point it's less about class fantasy and more just enjoying healing. I'll admit I only really play AST because it's a lot more flavorful and interesting than the other healers because of how cards and seals work. But honestly I don't care a whole lot for any of the class design, I just like healing. If I could choose I would much rather a dark-themed healer or a eastern paint-themed healer, and from a roleplay perspective I get a lot more joy out of something like PLD or RPR. I might suggest tanking or support dps if you want to still have a meaningful role, but yeah healing could use a bit more love and attention compared to other roles. However I do not think any of them are unplayable like some do, I just think they're a bit plain and repetitive compared to many of the other more unique and intricate class designs in the game.

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As someone who ONLY played Healer in ARR, HW, and SB (I quite literally did not have any DPS other than SMN leveled until ShB released), I can say with confidence that healers are quite unplayable to a former exclusive healer. There's an abysmal amount of actual healing I need to do and nothing else to do while I wait to not have to heal because the warrior did it for me.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

To add a bit, I do think our community as a whole does have an unhealthy obsession with balance. Food is good and an important part of our lives, but becoming obsessed with food can lead to an unhealthy relationship with it. Game balance is much the same. It's important to have a strong balance, but becoming obsessed with attaining perfection largely means sacrificing things that have made jobs unique in the past.

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And I think this is something the devs themslves fostered - by constantly going all "Oh no, you feel like class XY is a bit ahead of you? No worries, we got you. There! All balanced. Feeling better?" whenever a balancing issue was brought up and in a game where you can play all classes on one character no less. So a buff doesn't perfectly align with other buffs on its own like with other classes? Okay, let's streamline it. Only phys ranged have full uptime and melees and/ or casters don't? Alright, let's make it easy enough for everyone to have full uptime.
The thing is that the devs seemed to have started using "viable" and "perfectly balanced" interchangeable. There will always be a last within a role. And it's okay if that changes from tier to tier. Yes, it's okay if a class someone likes is bottom tier for a bit. Not to the extreme like in WoW where every months a different spec got hit with the sledgehammer and nuked into oblivion but being viable is enough because the majority of players doesn't even come close to the level of gameplay required for it to make a difference whether you chose "viable" or "strong". And the few people who do are entirely fine with switching to a different class for speedruns, parse runs and races because they have different mentality than your average player.

If you keep kissing every boo-boo caused by a perceived lack of balance you'll foster a community so obsessed with balance they'd rather sacrifice any uniqueness than see their favourite job be only "viable".
And I hate this obsession with balance. I'm fine with AST deleting a single mechanic in an entire raid tier. I'm fine with WAR having absolutely silly selfheal and being able to not only heal them but also the party if the healer died. I'm fine with RDM having the ability to chain ress an entire full party in a pinch. I was also fine with RDM and SMN both being ahead of BLM for a time during ShB and everyone and their cat raising an eyebrow when I joined on BLM instead of one of the casters that is not only easier to handle for the group while bringing the same dps but also bringing nice utility. GNB could be dead last by a good margin among tanks and I'd still prefer it because I like the gameplay.

Let us have nice things like Rescue cancelling LB3 animation look or PLDs doing silly cover strats for giggles and other things instead of deleting them because balance over all.
Balance isn't the holy grail of class design even if a good portion of the playerbase treats it as such after years and years of getting encouraged by the devs. If you keep balance-coddling a playerbase they'll eventually demand it without exception for everything.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

As someone who ONLY played Healer in ARR, HW, and SB (I quite literally did not have any DPS other than SMN leveled until ShB released), I can say with confidence that healers are quite unplayable to a former exclusive healer. There's an abysmal amount of actual healing I need to do and nothing else to do while I wait to not have to heal because the warrior did it for me.

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I'm sorry you feel that way but I honestly don't see it. Like I have yet to meet a warrior who was motivated enough to make sure they healed through everything. I guess maybe I just haven't come across them? I hear about it everywhere but almost every tank I get in expert roulette will go down to 30%-20% without extensive self heals if I let them.

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Originally Posted by KikiTia

I'm sorry you feel that way but I honestly don't see it. Like I have yet to meet a warrior who was motivated enough to make sure they healed through everything. I guess maybe I just haven't come across them? I hear about it everywhere but almost every tank I get in expert roulette will go down to 30%-20% without extensive self heals if I let them.

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Warrior is supposed to drop low, otherwise you are wasting a large portion of Bloodwhetting and Holmgang.

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Originally Posted by KikiTia

I'm sorry you feel that way but I honestly don't see it. Like I have yet to meet a warrior who was motivated enough to make sure they healed through everything. I guess maybe I just haven't come across them? I hear about it everywhere but almost every tank I get in expert roulette will go down to 30%-20% without extensive self heals if I let them.

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And that's fine, but my point is there is still a problem to be fixed.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

It's nothing to do with meta slaves. I love optimization, min maxing and generally lean towards the better classes but I agree this game is overbalanced. I want to be able to do fun crazy things from time to time. Especially when it's fun crazy things that require you play well and reward you for using your toolkit intelligently.

It's generally more often the casual players who shout for balance the loudest. The players who barely stepped foot in Savage demanding Astrodyne nerfs or the players who don't even play tank demanding WAR nerfs because of dungeons of all things. But to be honest, I'm not attacking casuals, I think players really need to stop blaming each other for how the game is instead of the developers who are selling us a product and are meant to be the professionals at making games. We don't make the game. We certainly don't put a gun to Yoshida's head and force him to make changes that make the game worse. If a game developer is unable to determine good feedback from bad and make a high quality product, they shouldn't be in the business. It's on them.

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Off-track, but I don't think I've seen any people demanding WAR nerfs for anything except the self-healing. Specifically in dungeon pulls, but also people get tired of WAR who don't reset when the boss above 50% when the rest of the party is wiped. Like yeah PLD can also heal themselves (and even replace the party healing even better than WAR), but not for completely free so you don't see them forcing everyone else to sit on the spectator seat.

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

Off-track, but I don't think I've seen any people demanding WAR nerfs for anything except the self-healing.

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That's what I'm talking about. The dungeons are bland and hit like wet noodles, but instead of fixing that, let's just nerf WAR heal and we can continue with the same numerically balanced boring classes that don't do anything interesting in our 3 corridor 3 boss dungeons for the next decade. Exciting.

I remember back before WoW was bad, playing things like Blood Death knight which makes WAR look like an utter joke when it comes to self healing. Yet that was fine because things hit hard enough that the average player couldn't pull it off, it took player skill and gave tanks those glory moments to live for. You'd love to see a good Blood Death Knight in your group. Same with a lot of classes, many had crazy things they could do in the hands of a good player.

In ff14 we don't get those crazy moments to live or strive for. We're obsessed with numerical balance and blandness. If a class can do something fun and crazy we want to nerfbat it so it's as boring as the other classes because it'd be "unfair". Even the class design itself is quite barebones with a combination of dps/heal GCDs, oGCD's to weave and a 2 minute burst with no traits, tier bonuses, trinkets, talents and so on, so all the devs have to do for balancing is tweak potencies and make the numbers similar. As players we've been conditioned to believe it's meant to be that way. Personally I just want my gameplay to be fun and exciting from time to time.

Dude, you get mega-benediction every 25s. It's ridiculous, not amount of dungeon tuning is going to change that. Never mind that big dungeon pulls are the only place where the incoming damage is in fact already decently high. You can't really bump it that much higher without the initial mitigation/healing requirement becoming silly. At least for the other tanks.

This is why I love dungeons like Amaurot of ShB.

They have mobs that specifically won’t target the tank under normal circumstances. It’s not much, but it’s an additional thing for me to look at other than spamming Art of Holkravity most of time.

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Originally Posted by KikiTia

I'm sorry you feel that way but I honestly don't see it. Like I have yet to meet a warrior who was motivated enough to make sure they healed through everything. I guess maybe I just haven't come across them? I hear about it everywhere but almost every tank I get in expert roulette will go down to 30%-20% without extensive self heals if I let them.

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I don't see it either. I regularly get tanks of all jobs (8 times out of 10) who are at half health by the time they pull the second trash pack and then keep running to the next one. Dark Knights have to be babysat constantly...there's so many of them that are bad. Occasionally you get tanks that know their mitigation and limits, and dps that are on point with their rotations, but perfect runs are not the 'norm'.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

My one sticking point with (lack of) balance is when said lack of balance always goes in favor of specific jobs, and never in favor of another. *cough cough* WHM always blowing chunks and AST/SCH getting unique tools that let it clown all over their competition, locking the role into a stagnant obvious meta that never changes.

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It is so weird to me because it always seems like they are trying to cater TO WHM but in ALL the wrong ways. It's like they don't understand how to balance healing between the classes or what makes each healing class fun. Oh wait...they probably don't. They DESPERATELY need someone who mains healing on their dev team.

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Originally Posted by D6Damager

I don't see it either. I regularly get tanks of all jobs (8 times out of 10) who are at half health by the time they pull the second trash pack and then keep running to the next one. Dark Knights have to be babysat constantly...there's so many of them that are bad. Occasionally you get tanks that know their mitigation and limits, and dps that are on point with their rotations, but perfect runs are not the 'norm'.

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I've experienced the opposite. I've yet to find a WAR who doesn't just heal everything for me. Watching them go down to 20k health only to jump up to 35, 45, 60... before i can even think to cast a spell? Mostly I just decided to never heal an Expert roulette again. It's so boring sitting on fifteen different skills that are never needed. I still get to heal for friends and I'll do it for leveling. Anything that keeps me away from a level 90 tank.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

It's nothing to do with meta slaves. I love optimization, min maxing and generally lean towards the better classes but I agree this game is overbalanced. I want to be able to do fun crazy things from time to time. Especially when it's fun crazy things that require you play well and reward you for using your toolkit intelligently.

It's generally more often the casual players who shout for balance the loudest. The players who barely stepped foot in Savage demanding Astrodyne nerfs or the players who don't even play tank demanding WAR nerfs because of dungeons of all things. But to be honest, I'm not attacking casuals, I think players really need to stop blaming each other for how the game is instead of the developers who are selling us a product and are meant to be the professionals at making games. We don't make the game. We certainly don't put a gun to Yoshida's head and force him to make changes that make the game worse. If a game developer is unable to determine good feedback from bad and make a high quality product, they shouldn't be in the business. It's on them.

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Casuals asking for balance the loudest? Really? That's absolutelynot true, I'm sorry. Casuals didn't ask for AST cards to be changed just to name an example. Accessibility is one thing and I think SE caters too both sides way, way too much (Eartly Star anyone?) but saying it's casuals while also claiming many don't even read their tooltips is just mind-boggling. Or what about job synergy. That wasn't removed because casuals didn't like it. It was removed because people cried over their precious FFLogs. Or how many here moaned about Lord/Lady and that's you can't "oPtiMiSE" around it. It's also not casuals that loose their collective shit when potency changes get release.

But I also agree. Optimisation has gone way, way overboard. We can discuss what lead to it but in the end SE needs to unbalance it.

At the end of the day though, it's not the parsers or the 'casuals' who are making SE make these changes; SE makes them themselves. If they had a mind to listen to feedback for the healer role there wouldn't still be so much bloat or clunk in jobs like SCH or AST after what they did to them in ShB, but considering it took 3 years for DPS Neutral Lilies on WHM, it's just safe to assume that they don't particularly listen to feedback at all on this role. SE has a vision on want they want healers to be, and they believe that mother knows best regardless of how we feel about it.

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Originally Posted by Nizzi

SE has a vision on want they want healers to be, and they believe that mother knows best regardless of how we feel about it.

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And it's that mentality that has caused me to cancel my sub. I can't enjoy my role and it just makes all other content dull as a result. It sucks because as much as I like the game, it's just not the game that I remember falling in love with back in ARR.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

And it's that mentality that has caused me to cancel my sub. I can't enjoy my role and it just makes all other content dull as a result. It sucks because as much as I like the game, it's just not the game that I remember falling in love with back in ARR.

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I don't blame you at all. I have about the same loop when it comes to PvE content in XIV:
1. I want to play as a healer, but spamming Broil/Glare/etc over and over is boring and there's nothing to heal. I also do not have the time to offer to prog Ultimate in this supposedly "casual friendly" game, so I can only consume the content for "casuals"
2. Because healing is not fun, I play as a DPS job (BLM)
3. It can be fun, but most of the time I wish I was playing a healer and it makes the content less enjoyable.
4. Don't play healer because healers aren't fun.

I've already spent most of this expac unsubbed from XIV and I'm sure I'm going to unsub again here shortly once I've gotten my fill of trying all the jobs on PvP, and this time likely until 6.3 or 6.4. From there, I'll probably just use the free weekends to come back and catch up on stuff until 7.0 comes out, if this game even manages to keep me involved enough to bother with 7.0 when I'm willing to make a large bet now that they will absolutely not address healer issues in the slightest if they deviate from this grand vision. I can't see myself actively staying subbed when they treat the role I want to play as poorly as they do, and I'm not willing to put up with the idea of sitting through another expansion with this unfun "gameplay" that is quite frankly, incredibly insulting to our intelligence. There's still a lot of the "side content" I find fun, but PvE is the main draw for me. As it stands, XIV is not a game worth paying money for.

On a game time card right now, when it ends I'm not planning to resub unless we get some positive news in the regards of healers being adjusted. At this point it is just straight up insulting that we are either ignored or told that if we want more to do, to go play the hardest content in the game. (Here's a hint Square, there is more to this game then Ultimates.)

Ya know i've noticed an interesting pattern on this thread about everyone defending current healer design. If you look them up on the site we're not supposed to talk about, you know what you'll see? All greens and grays on everything. Including dungeons and normal modes. The only people who like how healers play right now are people who actually don't know what they're talking about.

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Originally Posted by SargeTheSeagull

Ya know i've noticed an interesting pattern on this thread about everyone defending current healer design. If you look them up on the site we're not supposed to talk about, you know what you'll see? All greens and grays on everything. Including dungeons and normal modes. The only people who like how healers play right now are people who actually don't know what they're talking about.

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Apparently, I think those players are the audience SE trying to appeal to, at least represented by the changes and adjustment the green role gets.

They are 'fun' when player are blissfully ignorant to the blatant truth. Once they realized the ugly truth and start improving, it's all downhill from that point. That is, if they want to improve at all. I'm not saying this applies 100% of time, just a tendency that I've noticed from personal observation.

My friends and I have resorted to trying to push the boundaries of healer-less content. Better that than condemn someone to... whatever's going on with healers at the moment.

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Originally Posted by SargeTheSeagull

Ya know i've noticed an interesting pattern on this thread about everyone defending current healer design. If you look them up on the site we're not supposed to talk about, you know what you'll see? All greens and grays on everything. Including dungeons and normal modes. The only people who like how healers play right now are people who actually don't know what they're talking about.

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You can point this out without referring to that website: Look up their lodestone profile and note how they don't have any raid achievements or mounts either!

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Originally Posted by SargeTheSeagull

Ya know i've noticed an interesting pattern on this thread about everyone defending current healer design. If you look them up on the site we're not supposed to talk about, you know what you'll see? All greens and grays on everything. Including dungeons and normal modes. The only people who like how healers play right now are people who actually don't know what they're talking about.

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Well some folks are indifferent about it like myself. I still have loads of fun with classes like Sage and don't subscribe to the 1 button mantra many others do.
But in generally you should chill with the generalizations

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Well some folks are indifferent about it like myself. I still have loads of fun with classes like Sage and don't subscribe to the 1 button mantra many others do.
But in generally you should chill with the generalizations

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There's no such thing as a "1 button mantra" lmao it's objective reality

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Originally Posted by Nizzi

There's no such thing as a "1 button mantra" lmao it's objective reality

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For YOU. I dont spend most of my time doing that. Unlike others I'm not about to tell someone their experience is wrong though. So no, it's isn't objective fact

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

For YOU. I dont spend most of my time doing that. Unlike others I'm not about to tell someone their experience is wrong though. So no, it's isn't objective fact

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I mean, if you don't spend most of your time DPSing, you are objectively playing healer incorrectly unless you're just dipping your toes in and are learning. It's fine if you like healers or don't mind the 1 button spam, but it is an objective fact that the better you get at the job, the less you will be overhealing/GCD healing and the more you will DPSing, which for every healer is the spam 1 button spam for 60-70% of total casts in an instance. Every healer other than WHM has a very small amount of GCD heals and a very large amount of oGCD heals specifically made for weaving in between your Glare/Broil/Malefic/Dosis spam. If a majority of your casts are not that button, either something has gone very very wrong or there's an issue with inexperience/skill level.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Well some folks are indifferent about it like myself.

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Then you certainly wouldn’t care very much if more experienced/skilled players absolutely abhor the current healer design and desire changes that do nothing aside from make it more fun.

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Originally Posted by Nizzi

I mean, if you don't spend most of your time DPSing, you are objectively playing healer incorrectly unless you're just dipping your toes in and are learning. It's fine if you like healers or don't mind the 1 button spam, but it is an objective fact that the better you get at the job, the less you will be overhealing/GCD healing and the more you will DPSing, which for every healer is the spam 1 button spam for 60-70% of total casts in an instance. Every healer other than WHM has a very small amount of GCD heals and a very large amount of oGCD heals specifically made for weaving in between your Glare/Broil/Malefic/Dosis spam. If a majority of your casts are not that button, either something has gone very very wrong or there's an issue with inexperience/skill level.

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Last I checked playing a healer correctly requires keeping your team up and healthy dps is extra (though should be done).
You can be the best in the world and if other players aren't up to par you won't be spamming one button. Xiv is full of less than par players in that regard.
I for one like farming for toxicon stacks as it's a fun skill to use and is clutch for when I don't want to use mp due to being low. Keeping shields up and regens up at all times is another thing I do. If thats playing "objectively incorrectly" then I can only guess its been a fluke that I've gotten teams through content for years now

No clue how to quote 2 posts yet but Sarge let's not use the "experience/skill" point as that doesn't equate to having a particular outlook

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Last I checked playing a healer correctly requires keeping your team up and healthy dps is extra (though should be done).

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I'm going to repost something I've posted before because I don't feel like typing all of this to get the same point across:

This is just completely wrong though and not at all how healers in FFXIV work. No matter how much Yoshida says this, the fights say otherwise - the game is not tuned for "just do some DPS where you can!" but instead for healers contributing as much DPS as possible. These fights are tuned around healer DPS. To see that this is the case, all we need to look at is the top E8S speedkill.

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/qCnHW...pe=damage-done

This is the E8S Rank 1 Speedkill. The rDPS requirement for enrage is 90725 and this group logged 104357 rDPS. If you subtract the healers, 104357 - 20662, you end up with 83695 which is 7000 rDPS behind the enrage requirement for the fight. And these are the TOP players for the fight.

If the content was tuned around not requiring healer DPS or just having healers "DPS where they can", it wouldn't be impossible, if not close to impossible to clear even if you had 4 of the best DPS players and 2 of the best tank DPS on the planet. This is the core problem, healers are in fact not "meant to heal." The design encounters that they're sticking with demand that we DPS, and using our GCD healing is always a DPS penalty not just to ourselves, but to our entire party's potential clear.

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You can be the best in the world and if other players aren't up to par you won't be spamming one button. Xiv is full of less than par players in that regard.

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Relying on random players being bad to be able to actually heal outside of raidwides and tankbusters is incredibly poor design, but I'm not saying you're wrong in that if you're playing with bad players you won't just be spamming your 1 nuke. The problem is that I should not be punished for playing with people who are competent by having nothing to do except twiddle my thumbs and spam Broil over and over while refreshing my DoT twice a minute. I cannot will the game to find bad players to play with, and while current healer defenders insist that XIV is full of these players so you're 'never bored' that has not been my experience. The average run I have is just that, average. People perform and we clear the instance. My main is even on Crystal, the DC with the supposed "worst players" and lowest Savage clears across all DCs.

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I for one like farming for toxicon stacks as it's a fun skill to use and is clutch for when I don't want to use mp due to being low. Keeping shields up and regens up at all times is another thing I do. If thats playing "objectively incorrectly" then I can only guess its been a fluke that I've gotten teams through content for years now

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That is objectively incorrectly. Toxicon is a DPS loss, keeping shields and regens up is absolutely pointless as there is no reward for overhealing. You're coming up with ways to keep yourself entertained on healer by having all of these little challenges for yourself; but that's not the "correct" way to play. Objectively correct also has nothing to do with casual content; a freestyle SAM slapping the wrong keys and never using Midare and an Ice Mage BLM will eventually clear whatever they're doing as long as they don't mess up mechanics. That doesn't change the fact that there are objectively correct ways to play those jobs, and objectively incorrect ways to play them. This applies to healers as well; DPS is the only metric that matters. You cannot heal a boss to death.

And there lies your issue. I dont to much care about a dps loss dude. And I don't care if savage requires healers to dps. If there isn't a dps check (which most of the game doesn't have them) it isn't needed. Not everyone cares to play optimal and yall need to learn this. I'll take fun over optimal play any day of the week as the 2 don't go hand in hand for me. (And no that doesn't mean just hitting random skills before you say something like that).

Realistically you ain't the decider nor am I on what's the "correct" way to play a healer. Anything outside of healing itself is generally a toss up no matter how you slice it.

You may call it punishing while others have no issue. And no I'm not adding a challenge to myself by doing extra. I'm doing what I do because that's what I enjoy doing. This is the issue I have with this stuff. Alot you guys like to tell others they're wrong or playing bad if they don't like or operate the way you do with healing. I don't exactly feel that's fair

You may, feel you're spamming one button while others may not. There is no right or wrong with either of those

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

And there lies your issue. I dont to much care about a dps loss dude. And I don't care if savage requires healers to dps. If there isn't a dps check (which most of the game doesn't have them) it isn't needed. Not everyone cares to play optimal and yall need to learn this. I'll take fun over optimal play any day of the week as the 2 don't go hand in hand for me. (And no that doesn't mean just hitting random skills before you say something like that).

Realistically you ain't the decider nor am I on what's the "correct" way to play a healer. Anything outside of healing itself is generally a toss up no matter how you slice it.

You may call it punishing while others have no issue. And no I'm not adding a challenge to myself by doing extra. I'm doing what I do because that's what I enjoy doing. This is the issue I have with this stuff. Alot you guys like to tell others they're wrong or playing bad if they don't like or operate the way you do with healing. I don't exactly feel that's fair

You may, feel you're spamming one button while others may not. There is no right or wrong with either of those

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I too can plug my ears and scream "NANANANANANA" when people post the objective truth, that doesn't make it not true. That's really great that you don't care about what Savage requires, the proper way to play these jobs or what healers are talking about, but are you just here to post a bunch of nonsense and treat this like your blog? Your input isn't required or necessary if you "don't care" about peoples grievances with their jobs, especially in content like Savage where you readily admit you don't care. Stay in your lane.