Please Reconsider MSQ Changes

To those who liked the suggestion about enabling the duties for trust I've made a post for the live letter questions here I'll leave it here for those who wish to bump it.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

ARR's big problem isn't those two MSQ though, their quality is fine and if you're at that part in the story it's actually interesting. Their implementation is just horrid for replay. When I warn people about anything when joining the game it's the desert of filler between ARR and Heavensward. THAT really could be lost or at least condensed with little to no impact on the story.

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Please do also tell them there is still a lot of important plot during that phase. It's not all tea leaves and smelly chocobos.

That 100 quest gulf was rather insane, but the second half that set up the state of the Scions was fine.

If they add a skip option to that msq, that inflated reward for doing it would go as well, and then you lot would be complaining that the bonus isnt there. You know what you are getting in when you que for that roulette, there are only one of two ya even get for doing it. Just dont do that one if it bugs you.

People now force DC during the longer cutscenes and then log back in, which skips the cutscene.

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Originally Posted by Doki

People now force DC during the longer cutscenes and then log back in, which skips the cutscene.

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And they can get the banhammer for doing it it just depends if the people in the group will report them for doing that

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Originally Posted by Fayt1203

And they can get the banhammer for doing it it just depends if the people in the group will report them for doing that

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Which I DO report them for. If I catch on.

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Originally Posted by Fayt1203

And they can get the banhammer for doing it it just depends if the people in the group will report them for doing that

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I know its bannable but I forgot under the ToS where it is applied. I know I seen a few people do it who's 'internet' went out for a moment there. Every single cutscene it seems.

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Originally Posted by Doki

People now force DC during the longer cutscenes and then log back in, which skips the cutscene.

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To reiterate, people doing this are putting their accounts at risk of being banned.

New Terms of Service

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・Intentional leaving or disconnection
This means obstructing another person's game play by intentionally leaving the game or disconnecting from the server.

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Originally Posted by Ruinfeild

I know its bannable but I forgot under the ToS where it is applied. I know I seen a few people do it who's 'internet' went out for a moment there. Every single cutscene it seems.

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then they are doing it on purpose because if it only happens in cutscenes and not in between then it not because faulty internet its in the Tos about exploiting a ingame bug to gain things

I don't mind people disconnecting, just means I have to do less for my roulette.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

ARR's big problem isn't those two MSQ though, their quality is fine and if you're at that part in the story it's actually interesting. Their implementation is just horrid for replay. When I warn people about anything when joining the game it's the desert of filler between ARR and Heavensward. THAT really could be lost or at least condensed with little to no impact on the story.

So far when I've introduced people to the game it's not the MSQ gruesome twosome that they balk at , it's that nothing under 60 seems to be a challenge at all. If they spent anytime at all on reworking old content I'd want them to make ALL old duties more challenging by at least heavily scaling gear.

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Fair..
Maybe the fact I was dragged like a ragdoll during those 2 dungeons bias my opinion, I still believe the end of ARR lose luster from the poor experience you get from those dungeons..

I acknowledge there's a lot of quests in between ARR ends and HW start and I see a lot of new players complain. Thought, on a very personal note, I don't remember the gap between them being so terrible (maybe I just enjoyed that part of the story more that the average (?))

Now that I have read back my post, I don't even feel we have contradicting point: my original statement on the 2 MSQ dungeon applying to the last part of my post (sorry if it wasn't clear enough).

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Originally Posted by Mahoukenshi

I did the the two dungeons the first time two days ago. Outside of skipping cutscenes or not (of which I have no real opinion), I think it would also have helped if the dialogues during the cutscenes were not at auto-speed but left manually controlled. Everyone reads at a different speed while keeping the same immesion level. The auto-speed (for lack of a proper name) felt also sometimes "choppy in that I wasn't sure if it was intended to be so or if I had lag.

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Problem is people (trolls or afk player) could stay in the cutscene for long times (or forever). So how to deal with that now?
• Block people from advancing during a fixed length of time (?)
» How long should that length be for each cutscene?
» Does the cutscene get interupted for those still in it?
• Wait for all players to get out of it (?)
» And risking to get player kick for reading slowly?

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Originally Posted by Ceallach

Frankly, I love these new changes. It serves people right for just speeding through the dungeons and ruining the experience for the new players. Just the other day, my free company and I queued up with a total of seven people, and our eighth was a new player. We granted him the full experience instead of just speeding through, and he was having the time of his life.

Maybe people should learn to be more selfless instead of griping about changes that their own actions basically forced.

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I'm new to the game. I always wanted to play it but economic reasons of my country did not let me.
I'm so SO thankful that the MSQ dungeons don't have skippable cutscenes, I loved the immersion the game offered and I had a great time.
I've now ran them around 30 times and well, it does get annoying but I simply do something else meanwhile, like studying.
So my vote goes to just keeping them this way

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Originally Posted by Doki

People now force DC during the longer cutscenes and then log back in, which skips the cutscene.

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Originally Posted by Fayt1203

And they can get the banhammer for doing it it just depends if the people in the group will report them for doing that

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Here's some of the rules

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Originally Posted by Square Enix - Prohibited Behavior

◆Obstruction of play
"Obstruction of play" means all behaviour in general that obstructs another person's game play.
・Intentional leaving or disconnection
This means obstructing another person's game play by intentionally leaving the game or disconnecting from the server.

■Misuse of flaws
"Misuse of flaws" refers to the deliberate exploitation of a fault in Final Fantasy XIV, or manipulating a feature of Final Fantasy XIV so that it does not function as intended, in order to obtain personal gain or cause disadvantage to someone else.

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Agreed: Obstruction is a very vague term.. anyway, tldr you risk to get banned

i've been people just out right alt f4ing out during the c/ses log back in and run in and pull bosses while everyone else is still in the c/s. this needs to be fixed. revert it back or make it so if they do that they have to rewatch ALL the c/ses from start to current as punishment

An easy fix for the cutscene exploit would be to make it so whenever you start a cutscene in those dungeons, you get a debuff that immobilizes you, locks down all your attacks and abilities, and makes you invincible and invisible. This debuff would last for the full duration of the cutscene, so if watch the full cutscene, the debuff will expire at about the same time the cutscene ends. If you exploit to skip it, congratulations, you get to stare at a debuff for 5 minutes or however long the cutscene is.

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Originally Posted by Feronar

An easy fix for the cutscene exploit would be to make it so whenever you start a cutscene in those dungeons, you get a debuff that immobilizes you, locks down all your attacks and abilities, and makes you invincible and invisible. This debuff would last for the full duration of the cutscene, so if watch the full cutscene, the debuff will expire at about the same time the cutscene ends. If you exploit to skip it, congratulations, you get to stare at a debuff for 5 minutes or however long the cutscene is.

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Tbh, i wish we could skip cs even if i have that debuff for 5 minutes, sometime, checking your character status or rearranged your inventory is more interesting than those cs

Rofl... in a MSQ roulette run where no one used the d/c exploit, but there are people trying to justify it with "it's their time, they can do what they want with it, exploit or no", and they're insisting it's not a bannable offense, that you can't ban someone for d/cing repeatedly to skip cutscenes, and that I'm "interpreting SE incorrectly", insisting I'm wrong. Kinda hope they try it sometime and that someone reports them for it. See how that goes. Wow.

Should mention, they kept excusing it as "what if its their internet going out", as if no one ever considers that. Uh, no, when the rest of us are in cutscenes while the d/cers are fighting bosses... and this occurs multiple times... no, it's not "their internet going out. For some reason these people could not understand something so simple, and that SE does not look on it kindly.

This whole, stupid argument started because I mentioned it was kinda silly to leave the sprout (a legit new player as they stated, not a reroll) behind when they forgot to grab the key for the magitek armour. I directed them to the key, but everyone went on, pointed out the roulette is fior new players, not US, and... well, went from there. Honestly, I'm disinclined to run it again, considering how many people insist they're entitled to the exp, and that it's a "requirement" to level a class. It's... really not. It's not for you or me, it's for the new players. Don't be a jerk.

They could consider it, and of course obviously reduce the completion rewards accordingly

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Originally Posted by Talinthis

They could consider it, and of course obviously reduce the completion rewards accordingly

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if the reward getting nerfed, pretty sure no one will bother with it at all, for now, already player consider only prae worth of to do since it give about same xp as running dungeon and stress free and they just reroll until they get it, for 45 minute of prae we will get about 70~75 of our HP bar, while at level 70+ running a dungeon 3 times will give you a full level, each run will take about 15~20 minutes depend on the party

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Originally Posted by Ardox

Fair..
Maybe the fact I was dragged like a ragdoll during those 2 dungeons bias my opinion, I still believe the end of ARR lose luster from the poor experience you get from those dungeons..

I acknowledge there's a lot of quests in between ARR ends and HW start and I see a lot of new players complain. Thought, on a very personal note, I don't remember the gap between them being so terrible (maybe I just enjoyed that part of the story more that the average (?))

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Honestly neither did I, but I do acknowledge it's VERY long and tedious. The first time I did it I barely noticed since I was doing it as it was being released, subsequent runs I just skip all the text and cutscenes so it's just lots of teleporting.

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Originally Posted by Ardox

Now that I have read back my post, I don't even feel we have contradicting point: my original statement on the 2 MSQ dungeon applying to the last part of my post (sorry if it wasn't clear enough).

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Not contradicting, just slightly different views on the same problem. If you don't keep up with player complaints MSQ just kind of happens to you and then it's done. If you go look up guides and get exposed to the chatter though it could mar the experience somewhat.

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Originally Posted by Mirhd

Rofl... in a MSQ roulette run where no one used the d/c exploit, but there are people trying to justify it with "it's their time, they can do what they want with it, exploit or no", and they're insisting it's not a bannable offense, that you can't ban someone for d/cing repeatedly to skip cutscenes, and that I'm "interpreting SE incorrectly", insisting I'm wrong. Kinda hope they try it sometime and that someone reports them for it. See how that goes. Wow.

Should mention, they kept excusing it as "what if its their internet going out", as if no one ever considers that. Uh, no, when the rest of us are in cutscenes while the d/cers are fighting bosses... and this occurs multiple times... no, it's not "their internet going out. For some reason these people could not understand something so simple, and that SE does not look on it kindly.

This whole, stupid argument started because I mentioned it was kinda silly to leave the sprout (a legit new player as they stated, not a reroll) behind when they forgot to grab the key for the magitek armour. I directed them to the key, but everyone went on, pointed out the roulette is fior new players, not US, and... well, went from there. Honestly, I'm disinclined to run it again, considering how many people insist they're entitled to the exp, and that it's a "requirement" to level a class. It's... really not. It's not for you or me, it's for the new players. Don't be a jerk.

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i reported someone the other night for this all teh fights where below 50% by the time we all got out

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Originally Posted by Feronar

An easy fix for the cutscene exploit would be to make it so whenever you start a cutscene in those dungeons, you get a debuff that immobilizes you, locks down all your attacks and abilities, and makes you invincible and invisible. This debuff would last for the full duration of the cutscene, so if watch the full cutscene, the debuff will expire at about the same time the cutscene ends. If you exploit to skip it, congratulations, you get to stare at a debuff for 5 minutes or however long the cutscene is.

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Effectively - when people don't break things in ways beyond the programmers' control - the "viewing cutscene" state is that debuff. I assume they can't actually lock characters in place like that, which is why the unskippable cutscenes (code already in the game for some other instances like the treasure map dungeons) were implemented instead.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Effectively - when people don't break things in ways beyond the programmers' control - the "viewing cutscene" state is that debuff. I assume they can't actually lock characters in place like that, which is why the unskippable cutscenes (code already in the game for some other instances like the treasure map dungeons) were implemented instead.

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However, they've added that cutscene debuff in solo duties already. Perhaps it could be easily expanded to all party members, until ALL members have finished the cutscene (so it lasts the longest of all languages per cutscene, maybe with an extra 30 seconds to account for loading times?)

Signing this...will NOT be doing msq roulette til further notice....just lost an hour of time

Replied a long time ago but just wanted to state that my feelings haven't changed. I think the concept of letting new players watch and experience the dungeon closer to as intended is best, and at the point that SE can provide trust/AI to run the dungeon instead then the reward will be lowered and it wont be worth most people's time. The reward is substantial (although one of the dungeons offers a lot more than the other, would be nice if they were closer lol).

That's not to say I can't see how it can be frustrating for others, an hour with most of it cutscenes can be a bit draining but it's not a mandatory content piece at least and I still think it's the best solution for the circumstance (that it's not ran by AI for example). New player's experience priority, and as a reward old players get huge and easy exp / tome rewards.

They should just redesign the questline similar to how 5.0 does it. Dungeon with boss and finale into instance with next boss.

A lot of those fights aren't even needed, they can just rework them into small cutscenes showing your character and Cid or whomever is assisting taking them out real quick.

What I stated previously is the best way.

Now there's the lazy way and that would be adding trusts to these content as a bandaid fix. Either way, 2.0 is showing clear signs of aging every passing expansion and I'd prefer the former than the latter.

It's already probably been mentioned but I've seen people leave group if they don't get Praetorium now for the bigger EXP boost at the end. Thankfully people come back in quick and with Castrum being the quickest of the two, I can handle the 30 mins it takes to run it.

my pov on msq cutscene festival.

let the cutscene flow for those who see it for the first time.
allow us to skip the cutscene BUT YES BUT!!!! let the other players skip it BUT to stay in the purple rings that way we dont have to hear cid talking for hours and we can let others enjoy the view without us going nuts

Long story short. If you are able to skip the cutscenes, then the over inflated exp would be dropped. You wouldnt get it, and thats what the most of you want, the over inflated exp but dont want to spend the time that the exp was compensating for.

You aren't required to do it, and if your argument is that the exp is so good you would be stupid to ignore it, remember that you are being compensated for that time spent with said exp.

Another thing to note, since people have brought up old content no one plays in WoW, the reason the roulette is even in place is so people who havent done said content has a chance to do them and you are being compensated in exp and tomes and what.

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Originally Posted by MonteCristo

Signing this...will NOT be doing msq roulette til further notice....just lost an hour of time

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An hour that you offered to volunteer by signing up to the Roulette to begin with? :thinking:.

Removing cutscene skipping allowed new players interested in it to enjoy that portion of the story without having to do it on their own unsynched. Aside from Gaius' voiceover, I really can't say that's a wrong thing. And queueing in these two specific dungeons is a choice you make - nobody is forcing anything to people doing the roulette. Allowing people to skip cutscenes would revert it back to the start, where people were basically cut out of the fights (something I personally loathe, I'm here to kill stuff gods darn it!) and left behind probably fending on their own because they have no clue where to go next. As a story-heavy dungeon, this would make it horrible.

...except it still is, due to loading times difference and everyone knowing where to go except for new ones who have to sprint between cutscenes to keep up with the rest. Which brings me to my stance on this: delete Praetorium and Castrum Meridianum. Now - this might sound like a radical approach, and it is, but it's because this dungeon just can't work the way it is. There's a lot of Nero/Cid story in it, not to mention Gaius, and they still are relevant in later expansions! But at the same time it's long, extremely long and the cutscenes all over make it horrible. I really, really hope that this is in the list of the MSQ rework. Castrum could be turned in a duty call with less walking forward and back and fighting reused garlean magitek bosses and more meaningful action packed in it. Turn Ultima into a last quest Trial (similarly to Thordan, Shinryu and Hades) and Praetorium...well I was going to suggest turning that into a duty too, but then we'd miss the last level dungeon leading into the trial so - I guess it would be a dungeon with a true bossfight with Gaius at the end. With a better voice acting, please, listening back to those cutscenes I wanted to bite my own ears off.

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Originally Posted by ColdestHeaven

Removing cutscene skipping allowed new players interested in it to enjoy that portionn of the story without having to do it on their own unsynched. Aside from Gaius' voiceover, I really can't say that's a wrong thing. And queueing in these two specific dungeons is a choice you make - nobody is forcing anything to people doing the roulette. Allowing people to skip cutscenes would revert it back to the start, where people were basically cut out of the fights (something I personally loathe, I'm here to kill stuff gods darn it!) and left behind probably fending on their own because they have no clue where to go next. As a story-heavy dungeon, this would make it horrible.

...except it still is, due to loading times difference and everyone knowing where to go except for new ones who have to sprint between cutscenes to keep up with the rest. Which brings me to my stance on this: delete Praetorium and Castrum Meridianum. Now - this might sound like a radical approach, and it is, but it's because this dungeon just can't work the way it is. There's a lot of Nero/Cid story in it, not to mention Gaius, and they still are relevant in later expansions! But at the same time it's long, extremely long and the cutscenes all over make it horrible. I really, really hope that this is in the list of the MSQ rework. Castrum could be turned in a duty call with less walking forward and back and fighting reused garlean magitek bosses and more meaningful action packed in it. Turn Ultima into a last quest Trial (similarly to Thordan, Shinryu and Hades) and Praetorium...well I was going to suggest turning that into a duty too, but then we'd miss the last level dungeon leading into the trial so - I guess it would be a dungeon with a true bossfight with Gaius at the end. With a better voice acting, please, listening back to those cutscenes I wanted to bite my own ears off.

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Why on earth would you want the dungeons deleted? Many people run MSQ roullete every day for the tomes and exp, why take that away from them? It’s a roullete you don’t have to run, saying it should be removed from the game is silly just don’t run it. Removing MSQ roulette and it’s dungeons for many means one less way of getting daily tomes/exp just ignore that it’s there if you don’t want to run it.

I don't like running Frontline Roullete so I just ignore it and don't run it, I don't demand it get removed from the game.

I don't demand stuff...not sure why it came out like that? It was more like what I thought would feel better rather than this boring state of the MSQ instances. As to why I would want the dungeons "deleted" (reworked is what I would say, had you read the post correctly), I already said why: they are story-centered, but so long and juicy in terms of reward that the story portion is being left aside so new ones aren't even getting a decent experience out of it. Mind you, I run it almost daily just like you do, I would stand to lose the same as you. The argument "if you don't want to run it, don't run it" isn't really relevant in this case. You aren't criticizing me suggesting changes to the MSQ instances, either, you are talking about the MSQ roulette - the only reason anyone even cares about these two instances. In my idea Castrum would just be turned into a duty, Praetorium into a Leveling dungeon. As to where would the EXP/Tome gain go, could just redistribute it to other roulettes for all I care. Would it really not make more sense to you?

It really wouldn't make more sense cause the exp wouldn't be redistributed it would just be gone, they didn't take from other roulletes when they gave the massive bonuses to MSQ roullete, if the dungeons get removed so would that massive daily bonus, no thank you.

You are just assuming what they would do with experience balancing - not considering that the later we went with expansions, the easier it got leveling up. Remember when in 2.0 you leveled through FATES (which before StB gave laughable EXP) and spamming dungeons? I do. Since then, they gave us more and more tools for getting tomes and EXP, so it's a rather safe approach to assume that it is NOT in their interest slowing down the leveling process. And people would definitely get upset with the MSQ boosted EXP being just gone, so I really wouldn't put it past them in just redistributing it. Some actually give really low rewards as things are.

Again I don't see the point in removing an optional roulette, there are plenty of other ways to earn exp if you don't want to deal with the cut scenes, def not worth the resources to go back and rebuild the content when they could instead of making new relevant content. People run MSQ roullete everyday, if it wasn't being run and people weren't getting their MSQ clears for first time runs then yes I could see the worth in going back and rebuilding it, but that's just not the case currently.

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Originally Posted by ColdestHeaven

I don't demand stuff...not sure why it came out like that? It was more like what I thought would feel better rather than this boring state of the MSQ instances. As to why I would want the dungeons "deleted" (reworked is what I would say, had you read the post correctly), I already said why: they are story-centered, but so long and juicy in terms of reward that the story portion is being left aside so new ones aren't even getting a decent experience out of it. Mind you, I run it almost daily just like you do, I would stand to lose the same as you. The argument "if you don't want to run it, don't run it" isn't really relevant in this case. You aren't criticizing me suggesting changes to the MSQ instances, either, you are talking about the MSQ roulette - the only reason anyone even cares about these two instances. In my idea Castrum would just be turned into a duty, Praetorium into a Leveling dungeon. As to where would the EXP/Tome gain go, could just redistribute it to other roulettes for all I care. Would it really not make more sense to you?

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Okay here is a radical concept I know its something that NOBODY SEEMS TO GET! QUIT DOING IT!! There is absolutely nobody in your house holding a gun to your head and screaming DO THE MSQ ROULETTE YOU HATE SO MUCH DO IT NOW!!!!! Seriously I have no idea why this is such a difficult concept to get through peoples heads. Do you see everyone crafting? Do you see everyone doing battleleves? guildleves? does everyone do frontlines? then why if someone doesnt like something do they keep continuing to queue for it? then complain that's it's too long?

Again, I never said it was about me hating the cutscenes, more like the pacing of the dungeons themselves. The content in itself, if you strip apart the story, is plain ugly (even for dungeon standards) - and even the story bits in some parts feel subpar in terms of both acting, dialogue, cutscene (like the part where Gaius asks you for whom do we fight, there used to be a choice we could do and now we just gape at him speechless for the sake of pacing) when compared to the rest that we saw in HW, StB and especially now in ShB. It's almost like comparing two different games. I get why you want that juicy exp, but I feel like these two instances really aren't worthy of being the finale of 2.0 - they aren't nearly at the same level as the expansions. And if they really are to rework the ARR MSQ anyway because of New Game+, I don't see why not rework those instances as well and reimplent them in a way that is enjoyable by both sprouts and veterans alike.

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Originally Posted by kidalutz

Okay here is a radical concept I know its something that NOBODY SEEMS TO GET! QUIT DOING IT!! There is absolutely nobody in your house holding a gun to your head and screaming DO THE MSQ ROULETTE YOU HATE SO MUCH DO IT NOW!!!!! Seriously I have no idea why this is such a difficult concept to get through peoples heads. Do you see everyone crafting? Do you see everyone doing battleleves? guildleves? does everyone do frontlines? then why if someone doesnt like something do they keep continuing to queue for it? then complain that's it's too long?

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...what's with everyone being so aggressive today? I'm trying to be as logical as possible. I complain about it though I'm using it, yes, I have this thing called "leveling stuff" which I do regardless of how I feel about it . I would complain about it even if I weren't because of how awful it is structured.