Please do not lock Jobs to the Weapon Class that unlocks them.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

If they are going to remove all the elementals from Conjurer and just remake the class they might as well have just renamed them to the classic jobs as well. That is a retarded change.



Also, I doubt "Samurai" is going to be the name of the Weapon Class. It'll be something like Wanderer, Ronin, Bushido, Parivr, Vagrant, etc.

Samurai would be the job it unlocks.

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People will probably use them that way anyways.

Now that I think about it, I don't actually see the problem with the whole BLM WHM thing.

Think about it. Conjurer has pretty much every single black mage spell already, right(haven't taken it up to 50 so I could be talking nonsense)? If Conjurer unlocks WHM at first(which we're not even sure that'll be the case), all that means is that those that want to heal strictly in a group switch to WHM and gain any and all abilities/bonuses conferred therein , whereas anyone who wants to nuke now has full leave to equip every single black magic spell they want and have at it as a straight up Conjurer. It's a win win scenario.

That's more of a temporary stopgap than anything though, assuming they stick with the 1-to-1 class/job unlocking for a long while at first, which I still don't like the sound of.

Why are you guys even trying to consider ways in which this horrible idea could be implemented?

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Originally Posted by giftforce

Why are you guys even trying to consider ways in which this horrible idea could be implemented?

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Because we don't think it's horrible.

You know they've already mentioned jobs with more than one class (Famtisu translation) so how would they handle the weapon of those classes?

As I've said dozens of times in this thread: I'm all for allowing each job to use a variety of weapons but some restrictions are necessary. The job system is completely different than the Armoury system. Jobs are meant as a specific party role, classes are meant as a more vague customizable concept. Which one is better? Well we'll have to wait and see that.

Also I'd just like to add all the restrictions and whatnot were what people wanted the day this forum was created. I fought to keep the freedom but in the end the jobs are what everyone back then wanted and now that we are going to have it the masses want it back to being free.

Which is better:

Highly defined jobs with restrictive (yet superior) roles

Highly customizable classes with very loosely defined roles

People argued that the freedom we have now makes classes boring and homogeneous. What's the difference between the DD classes if we can cross class? What's the difference between the mages if we can cross class? etc... Now we're given more class definition and people are freaking out asking for the freedom again.

Personally: I don't give a damn either way. I trust the dev team to make a good decision and I'll keep playing either way they decide.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Personally: I don't give a damn either way. I trust the dev team to make a good decision and I'll keep playing either way they decide.

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Yes - they have shown with 1.18 that they are willing to put up with whining if it's for the betterment of the game. I'm hoping to see that same spirit of doing what's best for the game as a whole continue to carry forward.

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

Now that I think about it, I don't actually see the problem with the whole BLM WHM thing.

Think about it. Conjurer has pretty much every single black mage spell already, right(haven't taken it up to 50 so I could be talking nonsense)? If Conjurer unlocks WHM at first(which we're not even sure that'll be the case), all that means is that those that want to heal strictly in a group switch to WHM and gain any and all abilities/bonuses conferred therein , whereas anyone who wants to nuke now has full leave to equip every single black magic spell they want and have at it as a straight up Conjurer. It's a win win scenario.

That's more of a temporary stopgap than anything though, assuming they stick with the 1-to-1 class/job unlocking for a long while at first, which I still don't like the sound of.

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you forget that when you cross class skills they do like 30% less dmg/potency and are less accurate. so subjobing elemental spells is never the answer for a real DD. and its kind of backwards that you would have to level the whm job to be a DD.

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Originally Posted by Physic

you forget that when you cross class skills they do like 30% less dmg/potency and are less accurate. so subjobing elemental spells is never the answer for a real DD. and its kind of backwards that you would have to level the whm job to be a DD.

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Jobs like WHM aren't going to level up in the traditional sense, and since you're using conjurer and conjurer black magic(I.E., not actually cross-classing), you aren't incurring any penalty for strictly nuking. Unlocking WHM doesn't suddenly kill your ability to nuke as a standard conjurer. It only limits you to healing and buffing actions and maybe bonus upon equipping it. You're not "sub-jobing" stuff that already belongs to your class.

Don't wanna be a healing conjurer, then don't equip the WHM job. When parties are looking for a healer, they'll just grab a WHM conjurer and not force the role onto you, so you can be free to cast fire spells to your heart's content.

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

Jobs like WHM aren't going to level up in the traditional sense, and since you're using conjurer and conjurer black magic(I.E., not actually cross-classing), you aren't incurring any penalty for strictly nuking. Unlocking WHM doesn't suddenly kill your ability to nuke as a standard conjurer. It only limits you to healing and buffing actions and maybe bonus upon equipping it. You're not "sub-jobing" stuff that already belongs to your class.

Don't wanna be a healing conjurer, then don't equip the WHM job. When parties are looking for a healer, they'll just grab a WHM conjurer and not force the role onto you, so you can be free to cast fire spells to your heart's content.

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true, except that if thaum gets blm, which it will have to sinced blm is confirmed, if they dont add another class, it means they will now probably get skills that increase thier dmg or ability to do damage, sooooo the con DD will be noticeably weaker, but i guess it can back up heal.

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Originally Posted by Physic

true, except that if thaum gets blm, which it will have to sinced blm is confirmed, if they dont add another class, it means they will now probably get skills that increase thier dmg or ability to do damage, sooooo the con DD will be noticeably weaker, but i guess it can back up heal.

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Its all ass backwards if they do implement it that way. I mean they will have chosen conjurer as whm just because of the cure/na spellsets when thaumaturge lacks the entire core of Blm's spells aka Elemental nukes/dots and ams.

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Originally Posted by Physic

true, except that if thaum gets blm, which it will have to sinced blm is confirmed, if they dont add another class, it means they will now probably get skills that increase thier dmg or ability to do damage, sooooo the con DD will be noticeably weaker, but i guess it can back up heal.

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Is it really confirmed or is it thought to be confirmed due to taking a Yoshi P statement about the "ideal party setup includes a DD(nuker)" out of context?

No insult, serious question. It would suck if it were true.

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

Is it really confirmed or is it thought to be confirmed due to taking a Yoshi P statement about the "ideal party setup includes a DD(nuker)" out of context?

No insult, serious question. It would suck if it were true.

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It's confirmed. One of the Community Reps (maybe it was in this thread, even) told us that they were planning to release BRD, PLD, BLM, and WHM

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

Is it really confirmed or is it thought to be confirmed due to taking a Yoshi P statement about the "ideal party setup includes a DD(nuker)" out of context?

No insult, serious question. It would suck if it were true.

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They said 1 job per class and they've said whitemage blackmage dragoon paladin monk bard are coming in a seperate interview though they havent explained anymore than that as far as im aware. Some people choose to interpret whats said word for word, some people choose to speculate wildly and some choose to do a bit of both. Bassically beyound what they've said who knows? need SE to just say if the jobs are unuseable by classes other than the ones that unlock them or not.

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Originally Posted by mysterytaru

Because we all wanna play the failgame that was Tanaka's direction.

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Did you have fun with XI? If yes, your logic fails you.

Did you think XIV was full of potential when you first tried it? Yet months away from its goals?
If yes, then you're talking about the game Tanaka built.

You can say "Tanaka failed" cause he was the undisputed scapegoat for the launch catastrophe, but honestly the game he was building was a better game in my opinion. It simply was unfinished. We should have let him finish it before kicking him to the curb. Some of what Yoshida's doing is refreshing, but I'm still saying that 7 months of delay really wasn't worth this stupid fucking auto-attack system.

I literally fall asleep playing MRD & LNC, just like I did in XI. If Yoshida can tweak it so it's not so dreadfully boring just standing around waiting for TP, or standing around waiting for my MP to refill so I can continue to help out in long fights - great, it will solve a problem that YOSHIDA HIMSELF CREATED. It wasn't perfect before and it's not perfect now, so stop pretending Yoshida answered all your prayers.

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Originally Posted by Shai

Did you have fun with XI? If yes, your logic fails you.

Did you think XIV was full of potential when you first tried it? Yet months away from its goals?
If yes, then you're talking about the game Tanaka built.

You can say "Tanaka failed" cause he was the undisputed scapegoat for the launch catastrophe, but honestly the game he was building was a better game in my opinion. It simply was unfinished. We should have let him finish it before kicking him to the curb. Some of what Yoshida's doing is refreshing, but I'm still saying that 7 months of delay really wasn't worth this stupid fucking auto-attack system.

I literally fall asleep playing MRD & LNC, just like I did in XI. If Yoshida can tweak it so it's not so dreadfully boring just standing around waiting for TP, or standing around waiting for my MP to refill so I can continue to help out in long fights - great, it will solve a problem that YOSHIDA HIMSELF CREATED. It wasn't perfect before and it's not perfect now, so stop pretending Yoshida answered all your prayers.

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What problem did Yoshida create? Making DD classes less spam happy? Making mages actually think about MP use? Not allowing you to spam spam spam cures all day and all night plus be the greatest nuker there ever was? Those aren't problems as is evident by many many many more people making positive posts on this arguing for them than the same 5 or 6 people posting negative ones and defending to the death their position. You wanna play the old XIV, invent a time machine. It's dead. Get over it.

I wonder if SE staff members are slowly growing mutinous toward Yoshi for basically ruining the game they spent years trying to build.

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Originally Posted by giftforce

I wonder if SE staff members are slowly growing mutinous toward Yoshi for basically ruining the game they spent years trying to build.

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It took them 5yrs to build the empty shell that was released last Sept. Think about that. If you think that was good, god help us all.

I hope SE would just tell us if the jobs are locked to its corresponding class or not with very detailed and specific text. This thread has how many posts, and we still don't know for sure?

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Originally Posted by Engineer

I hope SE would just tell us if the jobs are locked to its corresponding class or not with very detailed and specific text. This thread has how many posts, and we still don't know for sure?

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It's because they are embarrassed they made such a stupid decision, showcasing how out-of-touch with they are with the game they are supposed to be improving.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

It's confirmed. One of the Community Reps (maybe it was in this thread, even) told us that they were planning to release BRD, PLD, BLM, and WHM

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Is that Bard i see there?

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Originally Posted by Rimmer

Is that Bard i see there?

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I don't see which class would get bard, unless jobs are not locked to a single class. I forget his name but the hyur from uldah dressed in black and white is a blade weilding bard..

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Originally Posted by Engineer

I don't see which class would get bard, unless jobs are not locked to a single class. I forget his name but the hyur from uldah dressed in black and white is a blade weilding bard..

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They already said Archer is getting Bard.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

They already said Archer is getting Bard.

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Could you be so kind as to link/quote us where they said archer was getting bard? please.

I've heard Players saying archer might get bard but i havent seen anything from the devs/reps saying that.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

They already said Archer is getting Bard.

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No, they haven't announced any such thing lol. unless i missed it. Archer is A DD class.. and seems like it would unlock Ranger..

Nothing else really fits Bard at the moment, so we're either getting a new class, they're following other MMOs and making Archer > Bard, or they're going to do something weird like MRD > Bard.

EDIT: Thancred is a Bard, but he throws knives like a NIN would and that's all he does...so...he was using Bard as in he writes/sings and not as in that's his Job/Class.

I think is a really good idea. I have to say the class system is cool... But too simple to perform custom playsatiles. Is only a few playsatyles u can reach whit class system: melee whit mage. And mages whit... Second wind.

This will be good as job and subjobs sytrm in FFXI. Lettg you to decide play as a PLD whit diferent types of weapon, which means duferent strategys and subabilitys.

And i will have no problem uf there will be some tipes of restrictions. Like if you want be PLD only can use weapons of slashing type. Or ranger use ranged weapons. Or monk use only blunt type weapons. Thats my think

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

Nothing else really fits Bard at the moment, so we're either getting a new class, they're following other MMOs and making Archer > Bard, or they're going to do something weird like MRD > Bard.

EDIT: Thancred is a Bard, but he throws knives like a NIN would and that's all he does...so...he was using Bard as in he writes/sings and not as in that's his Job/Class.

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Crap i don't want to be a bard. :( nooooo I hope im not locked to to that lol.

Btw. Mrayby abolishin physycal and instead adding job level?

OMG. That's will be fun

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Originally Posted by Galka75

I think is a really good idea. I have to say the class system is cool... But too simple to perform custom playsatiles. Is only a few playsatyles u can reach whit class system: melee whit mage. And mages whit... Second wind.

This will be good as job and subjobs sytrm in FFXI. Lettg you to decide play as a PLD whit diferent types of weapon, which means duferent strategys and subabilitys.

And i will have no problem uf there will be some tipes of restrictions. Like if you want be PLD only can use weapons of slashing type. Or ranger use ranged weapons. Or monk use only blunt type weapons. Thats my think

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I agree.

I see it being something like this..

RESTRICTED TO MELEE CLASSES.

Warrior. Dragon Knight. Paladin. Monk. Etc.

RESTRICTED TO RANGED CLASSES.

Corsair. Bard. Ranger. Etc.

RESTRICTED TO MAGIC CLASSES.

White Mage. Black Mage. Etc.

Then certain jobs would have special conditions...

Red Mage - Can use Magic classes and Gladiator.
Samurai - Can use Melee classes and Archer.
Oracle - Can use Magic classes and Enforcer.
Blue Mage - Can use Melee Classes and Musketeer.

This would be ideal in my book, and I think would please everyone.

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Originally Posted by Galka75

Btw. Mrayby abolishin physycal and instead adding job level?

OMG. That's will be fun

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Physical levels are being abolished in 1.19 I'm pretty sure.

Jobs level up with the class that unlocked them.

Me thinks.. that the whole point in this to begin with is to make classes seem more different then the others in the game..
more defined... so x class will become x job... x job will do specific shit, different specific shit then y class..
I dont really like the weapon = your class deal.. I'm from FFXI and I like how the game worked there.. that being said..
since it does work by your weapon type = your current class, then a sword = a gla so makes since it would end up being a paladin.. now if a lancer or a murader all were pld also.. then we would be back where we started.. imo all class are boring and the same, look the same , have same skills etc etc...
accept it would be the strangest game ever having people show up in PLD gear that is a CON or some other crazy shit..

so I guess what Im saying is..
I like SE current design.. and that seems to be by reading the post.. each class will have a party focused version of itself
Gla = Paladin etc
^ this is ok..

have to say if more then one class unlocks Paladin or whm or any other class and it isn't locked to that class ,it would really make the game .. well um retarded.. and I wouldn't even care anymore cause I would be on my way out..

each class should have individual job goals that are specific to that class... this will make each job different and give them a purpose.. there own look and feel etc.. and will be easier for SE to balance things for party / solo play in the end..
and though SE said that these were not advanced classes, think you can safely consider these advanced versions or rather specialized versions of the class it was.. so gla specialist and becomes a PLD

I just hope Archer doesn't say specialist to something it isn't.. for instance archer unlock musketeer or some rubbish..
Archer is a bowmen, I ranked it because I like bowmen :p I not one of the 3 musketeers ..
archer spec to Ranger ...

to all you would be whm/pld out there good luck lol

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Originally Posted by Calina

Me thinks.. that the whole point in this to begin with is to make classes seem more different then the others in the game..
more defined... so x class will become x job... x job will do specific shit, different specific shit then y class..
I dont really like the weapon = your class deal.. I'm from FFXI and I like how the game worked there.. that being said..
since it does work by your weapon type = your current class, then a sword = a gla so makes since it would end up being a paladin.. now if a lancer or a murader all were pld also.. then we would be back where we started.. imo all class are boring and the same, look the same , have same skills etc etc...
accept it would be the strangest game ever having people show up in PLD gear that is a CON or some other crazy shit..

so I guess what Im saying is..
I like SE current design.. and that seems to be by reading the post.. each class will have a party focused version of itself
Gla = Paladin etc
^ this is ok..

have to say if more then one class unlocks Paladin or whm or any other class and it isn't locked to that class ,it would really make the game .. well um retarded.. and I wouldn't even care anymore cause I would be on my way out..

each class should have individual job goals that are specific to that class... this will make each job different and give them a purpose.. there own look and feel etc.. and will be easier for SE to balance things for party / solo play in the end..
and though SE said that these were not advanced classes, think you can safely consider these advanced versions or rather specialized versions of the class it was.. so gla specialist and becomes a PLD

I just hope Archer doesn't say specialist to something it isn't.. for instance archer unlock musketeer or some rubbish..
Archer is a bowmen, I ranked it because I like bowmen :p I not one of the 3 musketeers ..
archer spec to Ranger ...

to all you would be whm/pld out there good luck lol

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We won't be back where we started if jobs are not locked to a class. Your forgeting that once you equip a job, you can't use abilities from other classes. Regardless if I'm whm/Gla or Whm/Con I will still be a healer because the white mage job gives me the essentials for healing a party.

I hadn't really kept up on news on the game for the last five months or so I wasn't playing. When I left I think it was just recently announced that they'd be adding classic FF jobs somehow and I was interested to see what they did with them, and how they would resolve things like giving white mage and black mage spells to the same class.

Now from reading this thread and a couple lines given in more recent interviews/magazines it seems all it is is a little toggle you throw on to make your class more specialized so it can be more useful in a party. And I have to say that sucks, a lot.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino

I hadn't really kept up on news on the game for the last five months or so I wasn't playing. When I left I think it was just recently announced that they'd be adding classic FF jobs somehow and I was interested to see what they did with them, and how they would resolve things like giving white mage and black mage spells to the same class.

Now from reading this thread and a couple lines given in more recent interviews/magazines it seems all it is is a little toggle you throw on to make your class more specialized so it can be more useful in a party. And I have to say that sucks, a lot.

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If jobs are locked to one class, a toggle is all the job system would be, and that would really suck.

SE has a chance to give us something really unique by letting us equip any job to any class. This way, we can fine tune our play styles instead of being a forced to play cookie cutter jobs..

Think about Beast master for a sec.

BST/GLA ~ Acting like a tank for his pet, allows for more unique pet choices like mage pets and such.
BST/ARC ~ Allows for long range combat while frontline tank pets are deployed for the archers protection.
BST/LNC-MRD ~ allows much more DD, especially if using. DD pets.
BST/THM-CON ~ you get the idea lol..

Now, if jobs are locked, all beast masters will have the same weapon. BORING!.

I personally want to be .

Machinist/Musketeer. I'm hoping that the machinist job uses machine pets, and grenades.

Also let's face the fact that SE said that multiple class will unlock certain jobs in the future IE. Thm+Con = RDM. If that the case, then red mage can't be locked to one class because thm and con unlocks it. This is a huge hint that jobs won't be locked.

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Originally Posted by Engineer

Also let's face the fact that SE said that multiple class will unlock certain jobs in the future IE. Thm+Con = RDM. If that the case, then red mage can't be locked to one class because thm and con unlocks it. This is a huge hint that jobs won't be locked.

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I apologize in advance for not having researched enough, but do you have a link to such a statement? I would really like confirmation there is something in the works other than a "party hat" for existing classes.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino

I apologize in advance for not having researched enough, but do you have a link to such a statement? I would really like confirmation there is something in the works other than a "party hat" for existing classes.

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I think it's in this thread :X

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Originally Posted by Engineer

Also let's face the fact that SE said that multiple class will unlock certain jobs in the future IE. Thm+Con = RDM. If that the case, then red mage can't be locked to one class because thm and con unlocks it. This is a huge hint that jobs won't be locked.

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^ This.

/10char

Hoping you might be able to clarify this, but it sounds like the devs plan to remove the current system of 'what you hold is what you are'. Given no new weapon types have been announced, I'm guessing we're moving to a menu for changing our Jobs. Or something along those lines...

To add some more wild conjecture; I'd love to see it that Jobs and Classes fit together more like a Main and Sub job. Jobs would be what define your overall abilities, while your sub job is your choice of weapon. This way you could have it so that say, while a warrior with an axe might not be so useful against monsters strong against slashing/blunt damage, they could move to a sword or spear and continue to be viable alongside Dragoons.

As a (hopeful) example, this could lead to actually requiring some thought before getting in a fight. If the Warrior were to fill a tanking role, using an Axe would end up preferable for fights where mobility is un-needed, but the ability to deflect attacks entirely is important. Conversely, fights where mobility is needed would favor sword/board for tanking, with less damage reduction but the benefit that you don't need to sit in place a few seconds (though you would need to keep your guard ability up).

If this ends up being where the devs go, I would gladly welcome this added depth to gear choice and the choices/preparation needed pre-fight. Tweak weapons as needed to make them distinct and offer obvious specific roles for a given Job to take on and I'd be in heaven.

TL;DR Love to see it where Jobs define WHAT you do, and weapons be a choice of how you tackle a fight or counter an enemy.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

WhateverytheycallCrossbowusers and their Crossbows..

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Usually they'd be called Crossbowmen or Arbalists(sp?).

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Originally Posted by Phenidate

Usually they'd be called Crossbowmen or Arbalists(sp?).

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"Arbalist" is just the weapon. They'd be an "arbalister."

Both are less common spellings of arbalest/arbalester.