How does SE justify these ten min enrages, but doesnt let anyone know their dps

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08-12-2017, 03:50 AM
Deathgiver

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reynhart

jerkass will have the right to call you out on your number, whatever stupid requirement they arbitrary decide to put on you.

First, it already happens, second SE already has a policy in place for harassment. The only difference would be that the information would at least be accurate. I've seen plenty of cases of lowest dps players being the first ones to complain about someone else's dps because they're bad and don't know what hate down skills are for and are only basing it off the aggro meter.
08-12-2017, 04:35 AM
Dualgunner

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reynhart

snip

Okay so question: have you done any of the current savages? Your statement

Quote:

Worse, someone who manage every mechanic correctly, but lack some skills in his rotation or some stuff might do lower damage that a stronger/easier character in the hands of the players that fail every mechanic, and will be the one to be punished because he's "bad".

makes no sense in the context of most of the current endgame raids. If you flub a mechanic, if you're lucky, the only person whose dps is lowered is your own. If you're not you just either killed (and thus dropped dps for everyone you killed by 25%) party members. V3S in particular if you don't watch your mechanics you're going to annihilate your friends more than your enemy.

So where does this "person who does mechanics flawlessly but has bad dps versus person who screws up every mechanic but has godly dps" image come from? Because I can't think of many fights where flubbing mechanics doesn't negatively impact your dps.
08-12-2017, 06:26 AM
akaneakki

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reynhart

Easy fix. Make killing the training dummy mandatory for entering the corresponding content.

Funny you say that. You keep saying that dummy strikes are the way to do things around here. But the thing is what you saying here is already a thing... Think about it, people can beat the actuall dummy before time runs out ands they think they are good to go, but yet when they do the actuall fight they are 50% low the dps they should be at. So no, not an easy fix, the ''fix'' you talk about here, already exist in game, just not mandetory to actually to enter a fight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reynhart

You mean you need a parser to see your buffs drop ? Of the amount of time you stay out of range from the boss ? Or how many times you died to a failed mechanic ?

Gonna ask you a question: Boss is at 3% it has about 200k hp left and you are sitting with either doing a dot skill or not. Which one do you do?
Second question: The add during a add phase in a boss dies in 10 seconds do you pop b4b or not?
08-12-2017, 06:31 AM
Penthea

Having parsing built in to the game will not stop players from being bad, nor will it stop them from trying to do content that demands far more skill than they have. I spent enough time in WoW to know this. Everyone and their mother has a dps meter in that game and you still constantly find bad players.
08-12-2017, 06:34 AM
Maku

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penthea

Having parsing built in to the game will not stop players from being bad, nor will it stop them from trying to do content that demands far more skill than they have. I spent enough time in WoW to know this. Everyone and their mother has a dps meter in that game and you still constantly find bad players.

Because knowing your DPS is behind what it should be doesn't actually tell people how to improve. Is just tells them that they need to.

Like the rememberball from Harry Potter. It told the kid he forgot something but not what he had forgot.
08-12-2017, 06:40 AM
missybee

You know...

I was going to make a sarcastic comment about how if they made the training dummies have mechanics SSS might actually have value.

Then it occurred to me that that might not actually be the worst idea? Even if it was just like, dodge this or fail.

I guess that is sort of a non-shower shower thought though.
08-12-2017, 06:42 AM
Penthea

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maku

Because knowing your DPS is behind what it should be doesn't actually tell people how to improve. Is just tells them that they need to.

And many players are too lazy to improve or lack the ability to, but they keep playing anyway. Often what they do is just switch to whatever FOTM class yields easy high numbers, which is ultra easy to do in FF. You can't get rid of bad players. No matter what game you play, you will find them. You cannot escape them.
08-12-2017, 06:58 AM
Reynhart

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deathgiver

First, it already happens, second SE already has a policy in place for harassment.

Yes, the same policy in place for votekick abuse...we all know how effective it is

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

If you flub a mechanic, if you're lucky, the only person whose dps is lowered is your own.

If you do a slightly better rotation than someone else, and have a much higher gear, even your lowered DPS can be higher than them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by akaneakki

Funny you say that. You keep saying that dummy strikes are the way to do things around here. But the thing is what you saying here is already a thing... Think about it, people can beat the actuall dummy before time runs out ands they think they are good to go, but yet when they do the actuall fight they are 50% low the dps they should be at.

Yes, because they're still learning the fight. Their issue is not DPS, it's knowledge. I had a leader like that, that constantly wiped our team because we lacked on DPS...while some of us only were on our first try.

Quote:

Originally Posted by akaneakki

Gonna ask you a question: Boss is at 3% it has about 200k hp left and you are sitting with either doing a dot skill or not. Which one do you do?

Technically, I don't care how many HP it has. I see the rate at which its health bar depletes, and, depending on how much those 3% last, I'll see how much tick my DoT will inflict.

Quote:

Originally Posted by akaneakki

Second question: The add during a add phase in a boss dies in 10 seconds do you pop b4b or not?

If I can't hit anything else during the remaining time on B4D after the add, no. Especially if the boss comes back with a powerful attack before being targetable again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penthea

And many players are too lazy to improve or lack the ability to, but they keep playing anyway.

And rubbing their number right in their face won't change that.
08-12-2017, 07:25 AM
akaneakki

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reynhart

And rubbing their number right in their face won't change that.

If the boss was about to die, the dot shouldn't even been applied since you do more dmg doing another cd with higher potency. But yeah get what youre saying.. Anyways, ''rubbing'' the ''numbers'' right on their face might not change it, but might change the view of why they get kicked from groups doign low.
08-12-2017, 07:54 AM
Dzian

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remedi

Even better a parser that tells you how much you are close to the average of your job

Question. what is the average of a job? there's no way at all a parser or any system could ever tell you that..

there's far to many variables... stats, gear, I level, (2 people can be the same I level but have very different gear.) I might be 315 with a 320 weapon and low tier right side. you might be 315 with a 300 weapon but higher right side stuff. that's gonna cause a pretty big difference in our results.

then there's party compositions... that also makes a pretty big difference in what numbers you can reach.... having a sch and ast, ninja and drg in your party can push your dps up a hell of a lot more than say 2 whms a mnk and a summoner....

then there's other variables like material food, pots, hell even fight strategy and boss placement can have a huge impact on your dps... it is impossible for a parser to give you an average that you should be capable of doing...

This is where SSS shines. because it eliminates every single variable. except you. it says here's what you should be capable of dps wise at whatever level that dummy is set to... if you can beat it then you have the potential to take on the content and win. if you cant you need to up your game unless you expect to be carried.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedalox

Funnily enough, it's that mindset that will end up getting you hit by the most daunting fight mechanic of all- the enrage. DPS AND mechanics are vital, not one priority over another. They work hand in hand and in conjunction.

Mechanics always come first to dps. while it's true that if you're dps isn't up to snuff you'll hit that enrage timer and fail.
its also true that if you don't learn the mechanics you'll not even make it far enough to see the enrage at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Unless they start adding random AOE telegraphs to the SSS dummies, they're hardly an accurate representation on if someone actually has what it takes to do Savage or Extreme content. And they certainly aren't an adequate substitute for a parser or DPS meter, which is an invaluable tool for self-growth if one knows how to use it properly. .

I think people look at the dummies wrong. the dummies don't tell you if you have what it takes to actually clear a savage or extreme fight. what they tell you is whether you at least have the potential to clear that fight before you even try. if you can't beat a dummy with 100% uptime there is no way at all you're going to be able to do enough dps to clear the actual fight without getting carried by the rest of the party..

they're an entry point basically. not a decree that you can clear it

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