Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

It seems weird that they would pretty much rework sam and nin when they are doing fine, and then do nothing to whm when it's bleeding out on the floor.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Job changes presented in todays Letter:

WHM
-Cure III and Asylum's ranges will be increased to 10 yalms
-Liturgy of the Bell will now be able to manually detonated for heals based on the number of remaining stacks

SCH
-Sacred Soil's range has increased to 10 yalms
-Expedience's sprint effect has been reduced from 20 seconds to 10 seconds.

...That's all? :/

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They slide does state that it's not an exhaustive list of the adjustments to these or other jobs. They mentioned healers are also getting MP changes (not mentioned in slide). We are currently unsure whether they know the full extent of issues that doesn't only relate to Ultimate or the full extent of the incoming changes. Whether they actually understand the full problem is a different story.

I think WHM got a new PVP skill in the 6.1 trailer, so there's hope.
...Though we're unsure whether that is going to be part of PvE. So I'm very doubtful.

Only DPS classes get the privilege of being reworked during expansions. Healers and Tanks get minimal adjustments at best.

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Originally Posted by Acece

It seems weird that they would pretty much rework sam and nin when they are doing fine, and then do nothing to whm when it's bleeding out on the floor.

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Nah that’s just par for the course. You can’t have happy healers!

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

Only DPS classes get the privilege of being reworked during expansions. Healers and Tanks get minimal adjustments at best.

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They at least did something to Living Dead finally. =w=

Now Living Dead's Walking Dead effect will heal the user whenever they attack.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Nah that’s just par for the course. You can’t have happy healers!

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As I said in the healer group: The theme for Endwalker is despair…

I really worry if we will have jobs in 7.0 at this rate, almost every DPS and Tank job are getting self heals to the point where if you make no mistakes, you can leave healers behind.

They are worried about player burnout and then dump more despair fuel on the healers…

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

They slide does state that it's not an exhaustive list of the adjustments to these or other jobs. They mentioned healers are also getting MP changes (not mentioned in slide). We are currently unsure whether they know the full extent of issues that doesn't only relate to Ultimate or the full extent of the incoming changes. Whether they actually understand the full problem is a different story.

I think WHM got a new PVP skill in the 6.1 trailer, so there's hope.
...Though we're unsure whether that is going to be part of PvE. So I'm very doubtful.

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I would imagine that if they did address any of the actual problems WHM has, they would present it on the slides during the letter. While MP cost is a big issue for WHM, their whole kit needs to be reexamined; Its mission statement (being the healer with the biggest GCD heals) runs counter to both how it and healers in XIV are actually played and its kit doesn't even seem to be designed around it.

Not to mention, PVP and PvE are designed separate from each other, so you are very much in the right to be doubtful anything from PvP will be reflected in PvE.
*EDIT* They just said Jobs are getting their own Limit Break actions in PvP, so that's probably what the new WHM PvP action in the trailer was.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Job changes presented in todays Letter:

WHM
-Cure III and Asylum's ranges will be increased to 10 yalms
-Liturgy of the Bell will now be able to manually detonated for heals based on the number of remaining stacks

SCH
-Sacred Soil's range has increased to 10 yalms
-Expedience's sprint effect has been reduced from 20 seconds to 10 seconds.

...That's all? :/

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Yoshida's Regen was 100 MP cheaper in Live Letter. That's it. Just Regen.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

I would imagine that if they did address any of the actual problems WHM has, they would present it on the slides during the letter. While MP cost is a big issue for WHM, their whole kit needs to be reexamined; It's mission statement (being the healer with the biggest GCD heals) runs counter to both how it and healers in XIV are actually played and it's kit doesn't even seem to be designed around it.

Not to mention, PVP and PvE are designed separate from each other, so you are very much in the right to be doubtful anything from PvP will be reflected in PvE.
*EDIT* They just said Jobs are getting their own Limit Break actions in PvP, so that's probably what the new WHM PvP action in the trailer was.

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I just saw the LL getting Limit Break actions for PvP and thought the same thing. R.I.P. PVE Healers.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

They at least did something to Living Dead finally. =w=

Now Living Dead's Walking Dead effect will heal the user whenever they attack.

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Now it all depends on what their definition of "substantial" healing during walking dead is because you only get 4 GCD's worth of it. 3 to be safe.

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Originally Posted by MisterNublet

That is also a problem.

But the healer role's dps rotation being limited to one DD and one DoT is inexcusable. If I was a game developer, I'd be embarrassed to think that is engaging gameplay.

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HEALING as a healer should be engaging, not DPSing. it's already bad enough that the devs caved in to the whiners and normalized Healer DPS. What they should adjust the gameplay to is making players having to heal more and DPS less. More unpredictable damage, less healing downtimes, more hostile dmg output across the board.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkyllark

HEALING as a healer should be engaging, not DPSing. it's already bad enough that the devs caved in to the whiners and normalized Healer DPS. What they should adjust the gameplay to is making players having to heal more and DPS less. More unpredictable damage, less healing downtimes, more hostile dmg output across the board.

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They’ve already said that they are not upping healing requirements or the amount of damage healers have to heal. We’ve already tried asking for this. Multiple times. Over the last 4-6 years. It didn’t work. So we’re asking for more engaging DPS because we spend most of our time doing that. And it isn’t going to change any time soon.

The developers are the ones who made healer DPS necessary by the way. Not only because healers do so much personal damage (and have since late HW/early SB), but also because they don’t make healers heal. And they make combat in this game extremely damage focused by removing every other aspect of it that was mildly interesting. Or they give every job and their mother healing abilities and/or mitigation that makes healing even more unnecessary. Instead of, maybe, giving this utility to the healers. “But that would be too difficult for the baby healers”, so we can’t have that.

But sure, continue to blame the whining Green DPS players for what the developers actively did. I am so sick of seeing this kind of attitude.

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

They slide does state that it's not an exhaustive list of the adjustments to these or other jobs. They mentioned healers are also getting MP changes (not mentioned in slide). We are currently unsure whether they know the full extent of issues that doesn't only relate to Ultimate or the full extent of the incoming changes. Whether they actually understand the full problem is a different story.

I think WHM got a new PVP skill in the 6.1 trailer, so there's hope.
...Though we're unsure whether that is going to be part of PvE. So I'm very doubtful.

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Haven't we heard that before?

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkyllark

HEALING as a healer should be engaging, not DPSing. it's already bad enough that the devs caved in to the whiners and normalized Healer DPS. What they should adjust the gameplay to is making players having to heal more and DPS less. More unpredictable damage, less healing downtimes, more hostile dmg output across the board.

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As you said in your first post ever on the forums, this is XIV, not WoW. Healers DPS here. >w>

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkyllark

HEALING as a healer should be engaging, not DPSing. it's already bad enough that the devs caved in to the whiners and normalized Healer DPS. What they should adjust the gameplay to is making players having to heal more and DPS less. More unpredictable damage, less healing downtimes, more hostile dmg output across the board.

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That's a lot of opinion for alarmingly little knowledge.
The devs said no. For roughly 5 years. After getting asked again and again. By healers.
Increasing the healing requirement across the board but especially for endgame content was actually the first thing healer mains asked for because they didn't like spending the vast majority of their time with one 30s dot and one nuke.
They went on record saying that it will never happen because it would drive away the baby healers, make healing less accessible, force too much responsibility on healers and increase the chance of wipes and abandoned duties because the healing requirement couldn't be met. Even in Savage fights the only heal checks are usually one of the last mechanics - and the first that gets skipped.
The amount of healing required to keep a somewhat competent healer engaged would make the forums explode with complaints with how impossible content became.
The game is extremely dps-focused because the devs want it like that not because a bunch of "whiners" or filthy green dps that secretly want to play dps but prefer healer queue times asked for it.

But keep blaming us for the state of healers when you have absolutely no idea about the stance of the devs OR the healer community.
Or may, just maybe, do some research.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

As you said in your first post ever on the forums, this is XIV, not WoW. Healers DPS here. >w>

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Good healers in wow also dps lol. Healer dps in almost every mmo now.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Job changes presented in todays Letter:
SCH
-Sacred Soil's range has increased to 10 yalms
-Expedience's sprint effect has been reduced from 20 seconds to 10 seconds.

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Nooo my extra town sprint. :(

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Originally Posted by einschwartz

Nooo my extra town sprint. :(

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Pick up a pair of Strider Boots They give you a bonus 10s to sprint in towns for any job.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkyllark

HEALING as a healer should be engaging, not DPSing. it's already bad enough that the devs caved in to the whiners and normalized Healer DPS. What they should adjust the gameplay to is making players having to heal more and DPS less. More unpredictable damage, less healing downtimes, more hostile dmg output across the board.

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I swear to god if I see one more "HEALERS HEAL" post I'm going to lose my shit.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

Haven't we heard that before?

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That's just me on copium as usual. I'll probably be playing PvP instead. Lmao :'(

one thing we can conclude from the LL.

healers finally got 1 piece of edgy gear to glamour if they get to level 25 in the series and its not a dress.

The one healer I can actually play without complete and utter boredom the devs want to make "less busy" in 6.2.... I see the end of healing in my future given the devs are clearly never going to change course.

Well, I guess I'm glad PVP limit breaks will be cool. Maybe, one day, they'll let us have some more fun in PvE too.

But otherwise, all I can think is: "of course."

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

That's just me on copium as usual. I'll probably be playing PvP instead. Lmao :'(

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Well to be honest that additional skill WAS very intriguing - WHM really is the most fun healer in PVP already for me, contrary to PVE, so I'll be right there with you!

Damn, my psychic visions are on the fritz. The 100 MP cost reduction was to regen, not Medica 2.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Damn, my psychic visions are on the fritz. The 100 MP cost reduction was to regen, not Medica 2.

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You were 75% right. It's a Regen skill, just named the wrong one. Now tell me the lotto numbers and I'll change 1 number to win it big

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Damn, my psychic visions are on the fritz. The 100 MP cost reduction was to regen, not Medica 2.

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Should've used Divination.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Damn, my psychic visions are on the fritz. The 100 MP cost reduction was to regen, not Medica 2.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

You were 75% right. It's a Regen skill, just named the wrong one. Now tell me the lotto numbers and I'll change 1 number to win it big

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Originally Posted by Rilifane

Should've used Divination.

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I'm already laughing self-deprecatingly after reading these three.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Damn, my psychic visions are on the fritz. The 100 MP cost reduction was to regen, not Medica 2.

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maybe you dissipate your vision too soon.

Now we just need enough outgoing tank damage to actually want to cast regen in content where mp is a concern =(

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Now we just need enough outgoing tank damage to actually want to cast regen in content where mp is a concern =(

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*laughs in Astrodyne*

I really shouldn't because WHM has MP issues, but AST doesn't and arugably never had since Shb introduced 800mp per draw. I REALLY don't have mp issues as is. With how often I press Astrodyne I can straight up replace Lucid Dreaming even with mass rezzes. Its absurd.

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

...*Astrodyne*...
...Its absurd.

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It is, but the Famitsu interview kinda explains how that came about if we make certain inferences. For example, if the new healer they brought in was hyper-focused on using AST, but was having such a hard time using it that they often ran out of mp, while the healer that was replaced was a WHM main who proved to need little-to-no mp.

You do realise that interview line wasn't removed from overall healer balance, it was healer changed out for specifically dungeon balance, the content they have made clear for a long time they want to be pretty easy that even real bad people can clear

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Originally Posted by Karneios

You do realise that interview line wasn't removed from overall healer balance, it was healer changed out for specifically dungeon balance, the content they have made clear for a long time they want to be pretty easy that even real bad people can clear

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So then why is Yoshi P a tester on there. He’s an orange parsing blm. By his logic he’s too good at his job and he should get someone newer.

Because dps balance in dungeons and healer or even tank in dungeons are completely different things, there's clear things healers need that you don't need to be misrepresenting a translation of an interview to muddy the point unless you're just after some "oh woe is me I'm the great victim" points

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Originally Posted by Karneios

Because dps balance in dungeons and healer or even tank in dungeons are completely different things, there's clear things healers need that you don't need to be misrepresenting a translation of an interview to muddy the point unless you're just after some "oh woe is me I'm the great victim" points

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What ? Do you play the same game as the rest of us ?
Whats the diffrence between a dungeon and Ultimate ? damage needed to clear, frequenz of mechanics and player responsebility - thats it. From dungeon to Ultimate the concept is the same. With your logic healers are just "the mental challenged bunch that are eating creyons".
A expierenced healer will not be chalanged by dungeon but the dumbing down of the class is cetainly not needed. Its like other allready stated we get changes from the outside perspective of a DPS with the "healers are a resource"mindset and in this way they balance. I never heard "hey lets make BLM easy" or "hey lets dumbd down NIN." So instead of taking stuff away give us depth and pleas dont claim "thats too hard" its BS and everybode knows that. Even WoW has more difficult healers then FF and lets be honest nobody wants the WoW Raidfinder difficulty here. FF14 is already incedible easy as far as MSQ and normal goes. Anything less complex and difficult and we talking "candy crush".

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Originally Posted by Karneios

Because dps balance in dungeons and healer or even tank in dungeons are completely different things, there's clear things healers need that you don't need to be misrepresenting a translation of an interview to muddy the point unless you're just after some "oh woe is me I'm the great victim" points

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It’s not muddying the point. But that last line of yours just says what you’re really at here. Instead of trying to defend blatant bad practices, let’s try actually critiquing obvious problems. Maybe if they designed dungeons around healers who are average to above average rather than new/sylphie healers we wouldn’t be in the situation we are today. The job changes spoken about today just shows the blatant favoritism shown towards dps as opposed to healers.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Meanwhile, I’ve actually done test runs of stuff where I barely DPS as a healer, play the full Medica II uptime game, and get 4 or 5 commendations. Just a huge fml.

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Resurrect 60 people in a single alliance raid, individually healing every tank in each party.

Carry the entire group to the win, get 0 commendations because I left my dead weight co-healer on the ground after I gave them my swift while I prioritized reviving an entire alliance.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

It’s not muddying the point. But that last line of yours just says what you’re really at here. Instead of trying to defend blatant bad practices, let’s try actually critiquing obvious problems. Maybe if they designed dungeons around healers who are average to above average rather than new/sylphie healers we wouldn’t be in the situation we are today. The job changes spoken about today just shows the blatant favoritism shown towards dps as opposed to healers.

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How they design dungeons is a different conversation than what this thread is in theory for, I'm personally fine with the difficulty considering daily runs with roulettes and lol blatant favoritism, mch got a numbers boost announcement with no specifics so who can say how significant it is, sam got a damage variance improvement with a skill removal for "button bloat" that I haven't seen people exactly cheering on considering there were other more useless buttons they could've removed and nin got maybe a small buff depends what the actual numbers for the mug and trick changes are

Gotta love all the non-healer mains' bunch of nonsenses. "Double standard"? "Favoritism"? Healer is the last role you want to complain about it.

It takes years for them to implement 1.5s GCD cast time while they've been repeatedly buffing MNK across the entire ShB expansion from just trying to mooch back players to play MNKs again?
It takes them a whole 3 patches to give AST a reasonable mana economy (5.0 to 5.3) and yet they immediately rework how NIN's mudra works at beginning of ShB right away?
It takes them not long to patch out the good ol' SMN's Titan ability to tank because it killed the need for tanks in Ramuh trial, but somehow they do the exact opposite of making healing less and less relevant by giving more and more mitigations & healings across entire non-healer role for years?
Every role in a party has their own set of responsibilities, and anecdotally known that both tanks and healers had more social pressure in that regard. Tanks get to keep their simpler yet still cohesive buttons while healers are cursed to have 1 button spam for eternity and not allowed to get more varied buttons in fear of making them not heal? Excuse me, did I just said that they also made healing more and more irrelevant too???

Then, finally we are told from the Famitsu interview about their testing team consisting of 1 casual tank, 1 M-chan DPS, 1 healer with EX experience, and Yoshi-P himself who's a known orange parser in savages, as a BLM nonetheless. And for some reason the healer was requested to be replaced? Really? What about Yoshi-P? How did he get to keep his spot? He's arguably a better player as a whole vs a healer whose expertise are as good as to tackle EX Primals, that's not even on par with savages!

Why is a replacement even necessary? If they are recruiting a casual healer to see their input instead of replacing, that oughta make more sense, but this??? Oh right, that's because said healer had grown too knowledgeable and discovered how $hitty the design are and needs to be replaced... not for Yoshi-P! A DPS gets a pass! Healer? Not so fast, child!


Tell me more about double standards again.