Dark Knight Megathread

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Originally Posted by DustyBlue

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Reminder that you can edit your post to get around the character limit

Daily reminder Dark Knight still sucks.

Welp, here goes hoping they fixed anything in 6.0 but it's doubtful.

For a Blood Weapon rework i always thought of using runes, on the very animation we see runes etched on the blade so i think Blood Weapon could be turned to a kinda mudra system, hear me out. When using Blood Weapons our 1,2,3 combo changes, how so, we get a shadow, blood and death rune for example, substituting for hard slash, syphon strike and souleater. Blood Weapon gives us 3 charges of runes to spend on 20-30 seconds one rune gives a dot, another rune gives mp and another rune gives hp. Im not mentioning increase in blood gauge cause i have another idea for the blood gauge, maybe tracing back to hw drk blood gauge could have interaction with damage received, this presents issues on getting gauge on a lot of situations but will give an identity to the current drk different to all other tanks, we have pld getting gauge on each auto-attack, war building gauge with weaponskills, gnb on combo finishers, drk could get gauge each attack received from enemies and adjust bloodspiller and quietus to less potency but healing also. The problem would lie when you are ot, and not getting that much attacks, it would block out your heavy hitting attacks, but if we redistribute potency it shouldn't affect dps performance.
It was a thought i had constantly and i feel i had to get it out after watching EW drk and seeing how its losing appeal.
Any thoughts?

Blood, Frost, Unholy, and Death runes with a Bloodstrike that actually heals you? Sounds pretty good.

I'm fairly easygoing, though. I'll settle for an expansion where Living Dead is not badly designed and fights are designed to be engaging from a tanking perspective (i.e. hire a fight designer who is actually passionate about tanking). Bonus points if PLD and WAR aren't taking turns being broken mandatory picks in a misguided attempt to make tanking be more accessible. If not, it's worth remembering that rail shooter fight design is much more enjoyable on melee dps.

I've cleared UWU and been progging UCOB lately. While DRK has many issues the main three offenders for me are:

1.- Living Dead. Healing it is pure pain if you don't have a WHM in your party, specially at 70.
2.- Dark Missionary. I'd use it more if it wasn't locked at 76. I've been asked to change from DRK to other tank more than once, not having any raidwide mitigation really hurts the party.
3.- Stalwart Soul. I don't know what the devs were thinking when they locked it at 72.

I didn't see anyone complain about it, prolly cuz not enough people run ultimates. I don't ask for much, I'd be happy if Dark Missionary was changed so it unlocked at lvl67 or something like that.

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Originally Posted by RyuuKai

I didn't see anyone complain about it, prolly cuz not enough people run ultimates. I don't ask for much, I'd be happy if Dark Missionary was changed so it unlocked at lvl67 or something like that.

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It regularly gets brought up in discussions about the terrible leveling kit that some jobs suffer from but I think most people have just accepted that it's very low on SE's priority list, gotta have those shiny new abilities to unlock during fresh expansion leveling.

They look at numbers mostly. Since DRK is the most played tank out of the 4 it makes sense to give the other 3 tanks more appeal from their standpoint. Which is why we saw the other tanks get so many buffs and additions compared to DRK.

I wouldnt expect any changes even with the two week delay. I only hope that this doesnt lower the number of DRK players and turn them away from tanking this expansion.

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Originally Posted by Derio

I wouldnt expect any changes even with the two week delay. I only hope that this doesnt lower the number of DRK players and turn them away from tanking this expansion.

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If DrK is to see any positive changes then the number needs to become lower. SE won't do anything about a job that looks like it's successful, no matter how baffling some of the design is.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

If DrK is to see any positive changes then the number needs to become lower. SE won't do anything about a job that looks like it's successful, no matter how baffling some of the design is.

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This. DRK players have to drop the class like a rock, and not use it in raids, replacing it with one of the other tanks. DRK numbers have to be the absolute lowest of all the tanks before they'll look at it, like how it was with AST at the beginning of Shadowbringers.

This is unlikely to happen, though Reaper could easily drag a big chunk of player away.

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Originally Posted by Kalaam

This is unlikely to happen, though Reaper could easily drag a big chunk of player away.

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On the opposite i think the DRK numbers will probably drop due to several reasons:

Paladin looks real sweet now
Reaper is basically DRK aesthetic X 5 so thematicallly many DKR will go to RPR
Dark Knight is virtually the same as ShB and barely evolved, heck even TBN is not as good as it once were due to everyone but DRK getting buffs and Living Dead still being garbage despite every other invul buffed to 10 seconds not counting the boring rotation

My prediction is that many tanks will switch to PLD and eventually some tanks specially DRK will flock to DPS jobs. Healers will grow in numbers temporally to drop to usual numbers after novelty is off

I've honestly been pretty discouraged from even playing Endwalker because of what's been going on with DRK. I've been stubborn and stuck to it through StB and ShB but I really don't think I could go through this for another 2 years.

Another problem is that I'd much prefer to be a tank and the other 3 tanks don't interest me in the slightest.

Right now I'm heavily leaning towards just skipping Endwalker for the time being until the job design team can get it together..

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Originally Posted by KaliAurion

Another problem is that I'd much prefer to be a tank and the other 3 tanks don't interest me in the slightest.

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Interesting.
Why is that?

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Originally Posted by ItMe

Interesting.
Why is that?

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Not a fan of the Paladin aesthetic, nor swords and shields. Warrior feels boring (Which is also my current gripe with Dark Knight, felt differently about it in HW), and I can't really explain Gunbreaker but every time I try to like it, I just don't.

1)TBN 25 seconds heal after pop OR 15 seconds 3000 mana that refunds depending on portion of sheild destroyed after the duration end.

2)blood gauge abilities heal per enemies hit

3) darkmind heal for a portion of ALL damage taken not just magic on reactivation or at the end of the duration

4)lvl 60 trait making spell speed get affected by skillspeed

5)living dead cooldown swap with holmgang

6)remove the heal on abysal drain and make it give blood gauge

For its own sake I hope the Job dies to come back better.

DRK needs its Dark Knight Rises/Bane moment.

I'm wondering how high the chances of getting a "rework" are in EW. I'm expecting low though because its not a dps

Adjustements may be possible. Stuff like tweaking values, adding a property to an ability etc.
I doubt we'd see stuff like changing how delirium works, modifications to the synergies or MP/Blood/Darkside etc. That will only happen in 7.0, if it happens

Tell they fix it I’m not touching it just like War in Shb

Technically they can do a full rework mid expansion, they did it with ninja and others, the thing is make them clear that make us wait another 2-3 years with the current gameplay build is unaceptable.
I saw Kei sato and his team move and do much more for less complains that DRK have so the question is how much they are willing to ignored. If anything is the first time i saw the JP forum sad joking to wait to 7.0 and comment they several sugestions has been totally unatended (specially Delirium, lack of combos-new GCD, shadow skin not coming back and the meme skills we are getting) so i bet for some reason DRK doesn't deserve they attention at all and they don't want/care since it wont affect the amount of subs specially when they just designed RPR with DRK feedback and even some users skills designs.

That kind of mentality is what led to the divide between WoW devs and players.
I am not saying that devs should bend to the player's every whims of course, it'd be a terrible idea. However, they shouldn't be afraid of bringing back abilities, concepts etc from previous iterations.
If they were to do a big rework mid-expac, they could reuse old animations for new gcds and so on. Would it feel cheap to reuse old animations ? Maybe. But since most of those are beloved and missed by a lot of players, it could be both a cost effective and popular choice.

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

I'm wondering how high the chances of getting a "rework" are in EW. I'm expecting low though because its not a dps

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Tbf, the critical factor is the direction of the change, more so than the role. SE was happy to shallow out Warrior mid-Stormblood, not far off in the patch cycle from Ninja's gutting in Shadowbringers. We just don't get depth added mid-expansion beyond giving back necessary abilities briefly held hostage (Energy Drain, Hagakure, et cetera).

SE had a historical bias for WAR up until SB tho. People complained in JP tank forums about anything WAR-related and they patched it the next week.

Dec 3 & 7th coming up super soon. I'm not optimistic that significant changes if any will be made by then but who knows...

Wish List:

1. Blood Weapon 60s CD: 5 Stacks 30s Duration This isn't up for debate.

2. Delirium 60s CD: 3 Stacks 30s Duration Increase Mana Restore to compensate for only 3 instead of 5 Bloodspillers/Quietus Edited: Already Met :D

3. Enhanced Unmend + Plunge is Trash Fluff, Give Dark Knights More Reliable ON-Demand HP Restore option besides Abyssal Drain in current state. Abyssal Drain is useless on 1 Target and 1-2-3 SoulEater Combo isn't enough, especially for later 71-80+ Content

4. Oblation is lackluster & should be available way sooner than level 82, like somewhere between 30-69 at the least. Personal or Targeted 1 Party Member 10% Damage Reduction is pretty wimpy, why not just combine it with Dark Mind and give a 15% Damage Reduction for both Physical & Magical, That way we got something useful for all situations starting at 45. If it's stays at 10% Damage Reduction, that's OK but please have it accessible 30-69, sooner the better.

5. Salted Earth... Sigh, 90s CD What the Fuck. It's a crappy version of Circle of Scorn, so it's more like Circle of Shit. If we're going to eventually use this more often instead of ignoring it on hotbar because that Salt & Darkness AOE Blowup effect is too nice to ignore at 90, why not lower the CD to 60s or under so it won't be so forgettable?

6: The Blackest Night: 8s Duration Buff At Least. Don't Nerf CD or any nerfs, it could cause severe imbalance, unhappiness and cause another Calamity.

7: Living Shadow needs to Move Its Ass and Attack Immediately, Stop Posing and Screwing Around. Maybe Synergy with our Attacks to give us some illusion of control over how fast the lazy prick attacks.

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Originally Posted by ArthurATDayne

Living Shadow needs to Move Its Ass and Attack Immediately, Stop Posing and Screwing Around.

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I get the aesthetic value of the shadow moving earlier, but so long as you're only going to be popping it on longer-lived enemies anyways (and are therefore unlikely to have its total duration go to waste over it not beginning that duration instantly), would this actually make a difference. (Heck, if it did result in a consistent potency increase... it'd just be siphoned from elsewhere unless DRK were undertuned.)

Granted, I'm all for giving Living Shadow the Dancing Rune Weapon treatment (double effects, and +50% damage from each GCD skill over the duration) a la a Bunshin skill actually done right, but... simply skipping the Unmend cast at the start in favor of instantly plunging in (when each is, effectively, on the same 3-second DoT tick / "Shadow-GCD") just makes no difference to actual throughput.

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Enhanced Unmend + Plunge is Trash Fluff, Give Dark Knights More Reliable ON-Demand HP Restore option besides Abyssal Drain in current state.

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*Looks at Ninja's resets of its longer-CD movement skill on ranged attacks (Raiton, Katon) that aren't a damage-loss even in melee range.*
*Looks back at DRK, for which the oGCD value of Plunge still wouldn't make up for the effective damage loss of using Unmend when the melee combo is available.*
*Double-take.*

Really, though; just reduce Plunge's potency if need be slightly and have Enhance Unmend unlock a free use of Plunge within the next 5 seconds. Voila. It'd actually be kind of fun instead of merely a jeer.

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Blood Weapon 60s CD: 5 Stacks 30s Duration This isn't up for debate.

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Debatable. No, really, when the exact same functional value can be had by just adding a second or two's duration, why are we so fixated on turning anything and everything into an ammo system?

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Delirium 60s CD: 3 Stacks 30s Duration Increase Mana Restore to compensate for only 3 instead of 5 Bloodspillers/Quietus.

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Or just give MP restoration equal to average mana-gen-per-gcd of our combo on ALL blood spending GCDs, rather than only those under Delirium. We don't really need even more to bank for/around raid CDs.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Debatable. No, really, when the exact same functional value can be had by just adding a second or two's duration, why are we so fixated on turning anything and everything into an ammo system?

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It's not because "ammo" is cool or going ammo stack system for the hell of it, it's because it just works well in nearly every situation to address issues like Lag, Fat Fingering Keyboard, Using Spell Speed Skills instead of Skill Speed Skills, Moving out of Melee Range, A Real Life Itch You Gotta Scratch, etc that would prevent the player from getting the best utility out of their Blood Weapon skill.

Merely adding 1 or 2 seconds could work but it's still a tight enough window that Lag, Fat Fingering Keyboard, Spell Speed Skill vs Skill Speed Skill will screw you over and it's such a goddamn annoying rush to mash those buttons in about 10s or under.

30s Duration is really pleasant, gives the player breathing room, and 5 Stacks ensures the player only ever gets utilize 5 stacks worth of mana/blood restore and can't be exploited further. If someone wants to rush and blow all 5 Stacks in a hurry that's fine, take a bit longer to use your 5 stacks dodging stuff/out of melee range etc no problem.

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Originally Posted by ArthurATDayne

It's not because "ammo" is cool or going ammo stack system for the hell of it, it's because it just works well in nearly every situation to address issues like Lag, Fat Fingering Keyboard, Using Spell Speed Skills instead of Skill Speed Skills, Moving out of Melee Range, A Real Life Itch You Gotta Scratch, etc that would prevent the player from getting the best utility out of their Blood Weapon skill.

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Yes. And? Why should DRK, of all jobs, be immune to lost CD value from forced downtime? Why should DRK, of all jobs, be free to scratch their bum with both hands mid-combat? There's no "getting the best utility out of Blood Weapon" by way of player agency at that point. It'd be uniquely player-irrelevant.

Consider also, if Blood Weapon is deserving of a 30s duration on a damned 5-strike CD, why don't we do use ammo instead for Raging Strikes, Dreadwyrm Stance, Ley Lines, Blood for Blood, Fight or Flight, Requiescat, Riddle of Fire, etc., etc.?

Just give it an extra second's duration to compensate for the delay caused by it checking for Blood Weapon's presence after each hit (therefore some 0.6s later) and it's done. It'd then work as intended.

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Merely adding 1 or 2 seconds could work but it's still a tight enough window that Lag, Fat Fingering Keyboard, Spell Speed Skill vs Skill Speed Skill will screw you over and it's such a goddamn annoying rush to mash those buttons in about 10s or under.

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...This is true of every durationed CD in the game. That's their point: to optimize the time in which they are active. That "rush" is the point. Don't fat-finger. Don't attempt to multi-weave more than you can without clipping if it'd cost you a GCD under the effect. Don't play badly, especially when your core CDs are rolling.

And I think we can all agree already that either the Skill/Spell Speed split needs to be removed or all hybrid jobs need a trait that duplicates the effect of Skill Speed onto their spells.

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Originally Posted by ArthurATDayne

2. Delirium 60s CD: 3 Stacks 30s Duration Increase Mana Restore to compensate for only 3 instead of 5 Bloodspillers/Quietus

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Just a note, we're not losing any Mana restoration with the new Delirium. The 200 MP per hit is there to compensate for the loss in MP we'd recieve from our usual 1-2-3 combo, which averages out at 200 MP per GCD.

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Originally Posted by Wayback

Just a note, we're not losing any Mana restoration with the new Delirium. The 200 MP per hit is there to compensate for the loss in MP we'd recieve from our usual 1-2-3 combo, which averages out at 200 MP per GCD.

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Great 1 item checked off from my list.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Yes. And? Why should DRK, of all jobs, be immune to lost CD value from forced downtime? Why should DRK, of all jobs, be free to scratch their bum with both hands mid-combat? There's no "getting the best utility out of Blood Weapon" by way of player agency at that point. It'd be uniquely player-irrelevant.

Consider also, if Blood Weapon is deserving of a 30s duration on a damned 5-strike CD, why don't we do use ammo instead for Raging Strikes, Dreadwyrm Stance, Ley Lines, Blood for Blood, Fight or Flight, Requiescat, Riddle of Fire, etc., etc.?

Just give it an extra second's duration to compensate for the delay caused by it checking for Blood Weapon's presence after each hit (therefore some 0.6s later) and it's done. It'd then work as intended.



...This is true of every durationed CD in the game. That's their point: to optimize the time in which they are active. That "rush" is the point. Don't fat-finger. Don't attempt to multi-weave more than you can without clipping if it'd cost you a GCD under the effect. Don't play badly, especially when your core CDs are rolling.

And I think we can all agree already that either the Skill/Spell Speed split needs to be removed or all hybrid jobs need a trait that duplicates the effect of Skill Speed onto their spells.

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I never said Dark Knight players should be scratching their asses while playing, but hey when you need to scratch, you scratch. I'm thinking of them too, along with the folks who fat finger keyboard and who got crappy ISPs and high pings. Blood Weapon 30s Duration 5 Stacks, I'm not taking No for an answer.

Besides on my PLD, Requiescat is going 30s Duration 5 Stacks for the Magic DPS combo (and 400 Cure Potency per Holy Spirit/Circle outside of Stacks or while using Stacks), I don't see why Blood Weapon can't get a similar Quality of Life update too.

You should probably ask other Job Advocates why they are OK or Not OK with their situations, I'm mainly speaking for the Dark Knight Job. But on my PLD and GNB, Fight or Flight & No Mercy 60s CD 20s Duration windows aren't an issue because I'm not reliant on them for restoring Mana/Cartridges/Resources, just hit the Damage Buff and DPS away with Any Weapon Skill/Gnashing Fang Continuation Combo/oGCD.

For the Dark Knight, players are reliant on Blood Weapon to restore Mana/Blood with Mana also being the necessary resource to use The Blackest Night defensive CD. 5 Weapon Skill and/or Spell under Blood Weapon replenishes enough Mana/Blood to afford additional 1 Mana Skill and 1 Blood Skill. Blood Weapon looks like it'll still increase Blood Gauge by 10 so even 4 weapon/spell skills used is enough at least for Bloodspiller/Quietus so it doesn't bother me on the blood side of things.

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Originally Posted by ArthurATDayne

I never said Dark Knight players should be scratching their asses while playing, but hey when you need to scratch, you scratch. I'm thinking of them too, along with the folks who fat finger keyboard and who got crappy ISPs and high pings. Blood Weapon 30s Duration 5 Stacks, I'm not taking No for an answer.

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Except --unless attached to an actual place of need, such as a 1.5s GCD or such weird off-rhythms as PLD's macrorotation-- you're simply making an adjustment specifically to make the game less challenging, less involved, less mechanically demanding, in general, rather than making a deserved adjustment to a given job.

PLD has reason for ammo, especially in the context of Sword Oath's stacks being extended, because of its odd macrorotation. MCH arguably has reason, though only up to a slightly longer total duration, in that its shortened GCD is thereby that much more susceptible to latency.

DRK, however, does not. It merely needs enough duration to fall just short of any reasonable amount of Skill Speed giving it an extra hit within its duration.

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Fight or Flight & No Mercy 60s CD 20s Duration windows aren't an issue because I'm not reliant on them for restoring Mana/Cartridges/Resources

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There's no difference. It's just extra potency in that given GCD or afforded by that GCD that then has to likewise be spent within raid CDs to maximize its value. Every GCD that generates MP essentially just has at most that GCD's MP generation times Edge's potency over Edge's cost more potency in itself.

You might as well say that DoTs and direct damage are functionally different even when there's no risk of the DoT being overridden. Having a skill with as much more potency in its global over the average ppgcd falling into a damage window is no different from having a Blood Weapon strike fall inside its window and that afforded portion of an Edge/Flood thereafter fall within raid buffs.

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For the Dark Knight, players are reliant on Blood Weapon to restore Mana/Blood with Mana also being the necessary resource to use The Blackest Night defensive CD. 5 Weapon Skill and/or Spell under Blood Weapon replenishes enough Mana/Blood to afford additional 1 Mana Skill and 1 Blood Skill.

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You say that like DRK would otherwise be left unable to cast a critical skill and a critical moment just because of the one missing tick despite it being a twentieth of their bankable resource.

Regardless, getting 5 strikes under Blood Weapon becomes a non-issue the moment you add even a half-second of duration to Blood Weapon such that it has a true 10 second duration.

The GCD queues themselves will margin out nearly 250 ms of latency at 0 Skill Speed. By the time you add 2 seconds' duration (11.5 seconds true effective duration), you'd be able to get 5 strikes off at ~325 ms latency even at 0 Skill Speed.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

you're simply making an adjustment specifically to make the game less challenging, less involved, less mechanically demanding, in general, rather than making a deserved adjustment to a given job.

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Why yes I am, I don't see anything wrong with suggesting Blood Weapon going 30s Duration 5 Stacks to make it less stressful and less of a rush to utilize. Less challenging, less involved, less mechanically demanding, so what? I wouldn't mind that. That's why I also call it a Quality of Life improvement, not a Keep It Annoying Because I Love The Pain Baby.

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DRK, however, does not. It merely needs enough duration to fall just short of any reasonable amount of Skill Speed giving it an extra hit within its duration.

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Yeah but "needs enough duration" isn't good enough for me, it can certainly work out like it is right now, but 30s Duration 5 Stacks please.

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There's no difference. It's just extra potency in that given GCD or afforded by that GCD that then has to likewise be spent within raid CDs to maximize its value. Every GCD that generates MP essentially just has at most that GCD's MP generation times Edge's potency over Edge's cost more potency in itself.

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Geezus, no difference? It sounds more like you stopped having fun at some point in the past. I will pray to The Twelve for you.

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Originally Posted by ArthurATDayne

Why yes I am, I don't see anything wrong with suggesting Blood Weapon going 30s Duration 5 Stacks to make it less stressful and less of a rush to utilize. Less challenging, less involved, less mechanically demanding, so what? I wouldn't mind that. That's why I also call it a Quality of Life improvement, not a Keep It Annoying Because I Love The Pain Baby.

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I guess any duration window that doesn't have at least twice as much time in lenience as it has actual use (as per 30 seconds to use 10 seconds' worth of attacks) is just sheer masochism. Who'duhthoughtit?

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I guess any duration window that doesn't have at least twice as much time in lenience as it has actual use (as per 30 seconds to use 10 seconds' worth of attacks) is just sheer masochism. Who'duhthoughtit?

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Well, if Blood Weapon ever does go 30s Duration 5 Stacks like PLD's Requiescat is with their 30s Duration 5 Stacks, you can still burn through those stacks in 10 seconds or less for bragging rights while some of us can decide to take longer than 10 seconds.

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Originally Posted by ArthurATDayne

Well, if Blood Weapon ever does go 30s Duration 5 Stacks like PLD's Requiescat is with their 30s Duration 5 Stacks, you can still burn through those stacks in 10 seconds or less for bragging rights while some of us can decide to take longer than 10 seconds.

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I feel like you're putting the means before the objective here. Blood Weapon isn't there, ultimately, to generate MP; you could have generated those effects passively or by any other means. It's there for its gameplay ramifications. (Yes, shockingly, kits have predominantly existed for their gameplay, as much as changes towards homogeneity and the "may as well" have muddied that.)

The whole point of having a durationed CD is to create that moment of tension, a moment of "rush", or at the least an opportunity cost for using it at an inopportune time. If nothing at all about your gameplay would change from the skill's presence (except in that you might need to first assign an auto-clicker to its button)... why is it there?

If Blood Weapon itself is something you do not want to actually deal with in any way -- something you specifically wish not to have any gameplay effects -- why not just reduce the MP cost of Edge/Flood such that you can get off one more cast per minute, or slap the 3k extra MP restoration (or a Dark Arts proc) onto Carve and Spit, etc.? You clearly don't actually want it to be a thing, to have any impact, so why have it take up button-space?

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

The GCD queues themselves will margin out nearly 250 ms of latency at 0 Skill Speed. By the time you add 2 seconds' duration (11.5 seconds true effective duration), you'd be able to get 5 strikes off at ~325 ms latency even at 0 Skill Speed.

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See, I do think this would be fine. An 11.5s Blood Weapon is enough to allow an easy five Weaponskills with no risk of a sixth, and it provides just enough time for a five Spell Blood Weapon. Spells aren't exactly used in Raids, but it's always been annoying as hell that DRK struggles to get a five GCD Blood Weapon in AoE scenarios unless they are able to sub in a few uses of Quietus. However, people are typically asking for the Ammo system because it's an easy solution. It means DRK isn't getting screwed out of a fifth GCD when using Spells, it prevents a DRK from SkS stacking to try and get a sixth Blood Weapon for some reason, it gets rid of the current less than 10s duration that screws people with poor ping, and it's a system that SE is already leaning in on. Delirium Inner Release, and Requiescat are all moving to the Ammo system in Endwalker, and they already moved Bunshin over to it back in Patch 5.1, so why not give Blood Weapon the same treatment? Or buff the duration, who cares, both are viable options that are better than the current state of Blood Weapon.

I don't think that having skill speed thresholds are a bad thing, as long as it's a target that everyone can reasonably reach after accounting for variations in latency. The main issues with Blood Weapon are in its execution/buff application delay and the fact that your GCD is always slower in AoE due to Skill Speed/Spell Speed being separately scaling haste stats despite all the gish jobs that are out there.

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Originally Posted by Beddict

However, people are typically asking for the Ammo system because it's an easy solution. It means DRK isn't getting screwed out of a fifth GCD when using Spells, it prevents a DRK from SkS stacking to try and get a sixth Blood Weapon for some reason, it gets rid of the current less than 10s duration that screws people with poor ping, and it's a system that SE is already leaning in on. Delirium Inner Release, and Requiescat are all moving to the Ammo system in Endwalker, and they already moved Bunshin over to it back in Patch 5.1, so why not give Blood Weapon the same treatment?

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I get that; it just seems 5 steps sideways (complete with a bundle of very mixed precedents) to replace 1 step forward and one fine-detail correction.

The Spell Speed trait or merger ought to happen regardless, and Blood Weapon would never have been problematic in the first place if it were actually 10 seconds' long.

I'd rather not, in effect, remove durations and their gameplay over a mere "Why not?"

For instance, I'd have preferred that Bunshin remain a duration; it'd at least be that tiny bit less fire-and-forget and would allow it to still scale (albeit by particular thresholds) with Skill Speed. (Of course, much like with Living Shadow, I'd have rather have gone further with it, but that is outside our scope here.)

Hell, the prospect of getting one more GCD under a duration isn't a unique benefit of Skill Speed; it merely means that Skill Speed can provide some benefit, just as Direct Hit, Crit, and Determination already contribute -- albeit by relatively chunky thresholds. A capped effect count is just one more way to make Skill Speed even more of a trap stat. We shouldn't have trap stats, nor --so long as we're not going to balance stat weights individually for each job-- stats that are only valuable for jobs with little to no unscalable oGCD contribution.

It's worth noting here that durationed oGCDs like Raging Strike, No Mercy, and the like do scale with Skill Speed while skills like Drill, etc., effectively do not, because you still need to align them with Trick Attack, making any overclocking (forward drift) counterproductive.

We should, of course, set those thresholds at a equilibrium between compensating for latency at 0 Skill Speed (still easily getting our n hits out) and between feeling obliged to take a bit more Skill Speed and barely manage a n+1th hit (i.e., start at some n+0.5 hits' time, rather than a mere exact n hits or n+0.8 hits), especially if any player would be forced to double-weave within the particular duration. However, I don't think having some value for Skill Speed, for once, is a bad thing.

Blood Weapon is the same ancient issue the devs play on a zero latency LAN test server and they forgot to adjust the skill like so many other things in the DRK kit.