BLU for Duty Finder and Raids! Show your support!

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Originally Posted by Noodle_Trinidad

So tell me how anything outside of Blue Magic which is Learning Monster Abilities isn't the thing that makes BLU unique?

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First you have to realise how limited FFXIV already is, since elements doesn't matter (*cough*fighting Ifrit with Fire*cough*) and many debuffs doesn't work on bosses or are just placebo, also we have a limited number of skills wich you can't custom.

Now we got BLU, wich has spells with element and debuffs. Inside The Masked Carnival, mobs will have their specific element and you'll have to take that in mind before attacking.
Also, using debuffs properly will be a thing, and BLU has many of them.

Is it so hard to accept a new job? Why do you want to downgrade it to a generic boring job? What's the point?

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Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

Blu does have a "generic" rotation though, its just wishful thinking to think otherwise

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Maybe outside the carnival. Inside it you should take in mind the elements and stuff.

From the BLU perspective, FFXIV is a limited world, and Carnival is where he shines.

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

First you have to realise how limited FFXIV already is, since elements doesn't matter (*cough*fighting Ifrit with Fire*cough*) and many debuffs doesn't work on bosses or are just placebo, also we have a limited number of skills wich you can't custom.

Now we got BLU, wich has spells with element and debuffs. Inside The Masked Carnival, mobs will have their specific element and you'll have to take that in mind before attacking.
Also, using debuffs properly will be a thing, and BLU has many of them.

Is it so hard to accept a new job? Why do you want to downgrade it to a generic boring job? What's the point?

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I see you didn't read any of my post outside of the argument about what makes BLU unique. Do I think the current game design is getting boring and becoming more tedius as the formula is being kept the same since 3.0? Yes. Do I think the Devs should try and branch out by building upon the systems? Yes. Is limiting a job from most of the battle oriented content the same as doing this? No. BLU is worse than a generic job as it essentially, and as tiring as this argument is, a minigame which has taken the systems from Eureka for not only its solo-instance but for the learning system as well. I think its plain to see how Logograms played into the "Learning" aspect of the abilities and how much "depth" the Wheel in Eureka added to fights. The Carnivale elements won't be anything special and will be almost the same as flipping your magicite around to the right element in Eureka. I do think though the Logogram-esque system holds a lot of potential for the class and is why I very much in the idea of flipping the idea of a Limited Job into an Advanced Job.

To sum up the idea of an "Advanced Job" with BLU would be to simply make it clear that just leveling and doing your storyline quests won't be enough to have you battle ready for all the content in the game. It's status as an Advanced Job would have you going out and dealing with past content and bosses like it does now to even gather your abilities but at the same time fixing the balancing issue that arises from such a thing by cutting down its pool of 49 abilities to something closer to the # of what current 70 jobs, with it holding just a tad more than them. BLU isn't going to be the exception to the rule when it comes to "generic" in the long run anyways, outside of the Carnivale the elemental effects mean nothing regardless of how you try and push it. People will run the Carnivale for either a quick Tome farm or Glamour rewards and once those dry up or a better avenue appears for Tomes it'll get used less and less. At the very least with an "Advanced Job" layout it'd make sure you can do anything else that is battle-oriented while waiting for a Carnivale update.

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

Maybe outside the carnival. Inside it you should take in mind the elements and stuff.

From the BLU perspective, FFXIV is a limited world, and Carnival is where he shines.

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And from the perspective of someone who has dealt with the 1.0 elemental differences and the Eureka elemental differences the world of the Masked Carnivale seems like a barely prettied up Guildhest judging by the info that was given. I'll definitely be trying it out to get a better understanding but make no mistake in the long run BLU feels like a limited lens to view content with when compared to its older bretheren

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Please don't reveal personal info about me.

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Best post of the thread.

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Originally Posted by Noodle_Trinidad

I see you didn't read any of my post outside of the argument about what makes BLU unique. Do I think the current game design is getting boring and becoming more tedius as the formula is being kept the same since 3.0? Yes. Do I think the Devs should try and branch out by building upon the systems? Yes. Is limiting a job from most of the battle oriented content the same as doing this? No. BLU is worse than a generic job as it essentially, and as tiring as this argument is, a minigame which has taken the systems from Eureka for not only its solo-instance but for the learning system as well. I think its plain to see how Logograms played into the "Learning" aspect of the abilities and how much "depth" the Wheel in Eureka added to fights. The Carnivale elements won't be anything special and will be almost the same as flipping your magicite around to the right element in Eureka. I do think though the Logogram-esque system holds a lot of potential for the class and is why I very much in the idea of flipping the idea of a Limited Job into an Advanced Job.

To sum up the idea of an "Advanced Job" with BLU would be to simply make it clear that just leveling and doing your storyline quests won't be enough to have you battle ready for all the content in the game. It's status as an Advanced Job would have you going out and dealing with past content and bosses like it does now to even gather your abilities but at the same time fixing the balancing issue that arises from such a thing by cutting down its pool of 49 abilities to something closer to the # of what current 70 jobs, with it holding just a tad more than them. BLU isn't going to be the exception to the rule when it comes to "generic" in the long run anyways, outside of the Carnivale the elemental effects mean nothing regardless of how you try and push it. People will run the Carnivale for either a quick Tome farm or Glamour rewards and once those dry up or a better avenue appears for Tomes it'll get used less and less. At the very least with an "Advanced Job" layout it'd make sure you can do anything else that is battle-oriented while waiting for a Carnivale update.


And from the perspective of someone who has dealt with the 1.0 elemental differences and the Eureka elemental differences the world of the Masked Carnivale seems like a barely prettied up Guildhest judging by the info that was given. I'll definitely be trying it out to get a better understanding but make no mistake in the long run BLU feels like a limited lens to view content with when compared to its older bretheren

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Yes, the BLU content is limited into instanced content. For now.

Maybe in the future with jobs like Beastmaster, SE may change the overworld to fit them properly, like bringing back the elemental importance, a harder open world etc...
Remember back in the 1.0? Mor Dhona was a dangerous place because it had hi-lvl mobs, and other maps had hi-lvl mobs as well. In the actual FFXIV, the hardest overworld mob is lvl 69 and you can kill it with a low i-lvl conjurer doing autoattacks.

So if we ever get a Beastmaster, if they simplify it like the generic jobs we already have, Beastmaster would just be a melee with a pet, instead of a Solo-master wich can charm high level mobs to fight for him.
Maybe the limited jobs can change the FFXIV gameplay and improve it. We're just experiencing the first steps, so I will be deffending this new formula if it brings a chance to improve the game and it's overworld.

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

Maybe outside the carnival. Inside it you should take in mind the elements and stuff.

From the BLU perspective, FFXIV is a limited world, and Carnival is where he shines.

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Except this isn't the case either, you just take a different colour 130 potency aoe attack, that's the extend of exploiting weaknesses, and maybe using sharpened knife instead of water cannon on enemies with water resist.

Helluuuuu Bluuu

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Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

Except this isn't the case either, you just take a different colour 130 potency aoe attack, that's the extend of exploiting weaknesses, and maybe using sharpened knife instead of water cannon on enemies with water resist.

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Still better than doing the same rotation over and over again using the exact same skills on every boss.

The actual fights are really limited, and are just based in the mechanics instead of the boss weakness (they just don't have any weakness).


We'll see how Carnival develops, and what we can expect in the future 5.0 updates.

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Originally Posted by Noodle_Trinidad

Had they confirmed that all the Jobs would eventually get a similar treatment in 5.0 and this was just a taste of what we'll get then I think the overall community consensus would have been better but alas we already know that come 5.0 BLU will slowly get its level cap increased thru patches meaning any indication of that ever seeping into our main game design is slim to none.

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No, there's no real link between how BLU works and how customization works, because BLU "limited feature" is not only customization. And when did they ever told us in advance what they'll do with jobs ?

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Originally Posted by Noodle_Trinidad

Instead of building upon the system they went back and stripped away parts of it and added something else in hopes of making it feel like a whole class when compared to the rest and in my honest opinion it will never be a whole class.

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Yes, instead of doing the same stuff they did for several years, they decided to offer something different. Personally, I think BLU has more value as a side content than simpy another job for me to run my daily roulettes over and over again.

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Originally Posted by Noodle_Trinidad

FFV: The Blue Mage's innate ability, Learning, is what makes the Blue Mage a Blue Mage.
So tell me how anything outside of Blue Magic which is Learning Monster Abilities isn't the thing that makes BLU unique?

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Considering that even the learning part was dealt in very different ways throughout previous FF, you quoting FFV is already very restrictive. And, no, learning from monster is not the only thing unique in XIV's BLU, like it's not the only thing unique in XI's or X-2's BLUs.

But please, tell me how "choosing your skills" and "not having a level requirement to use a skill" is not unique to XIV's Blue Mage.

Gzzz for abusing the system to instant level yourself within an hour to level 50.
Totally not rushing the content. I can already see how BLU will die in the next 2-3 weeks, and everyone will ask for more new, innovative and refreshing content that hasnt been burned out within a couple of weeks.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Please don't reveal personal info about me.

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Dude and or Miss You do realize we're on the same server and that SE outed you for being on Balmung the day you picked THAT character to use on the forums. Want to be anonymous on the official boards? Don't use your main to make forum posts.

It's been an hour and there are already capped BLUs

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Originally Posted by BubblyBoar

It's been an hour and there are already capped BLUs

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Because power leveling is a thing.

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Originally Posted by BubblyBoar

It's been an hour and there are already capped BLUs

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Built-in exp buff, FC buffs, food, armory bonus, maybe a Road to 60? Mentor bonus if you're partied with one. I can see how easy that would be... to the point it makes me again wonder why they even made you level it in the first place. Most of it is locked behind learning the skills anyway.

ran around for30 mins and I'm 39. I'll finish up the rest when I get home from work

I hear people have Blu at 50 within an hour...how is that even possible?
It's not even possible o do wwith normal Dow/M and they have level roulette to speed It along.
is the Level up requirement and xp gains from monster kills nerfed/boosted so much that it only takes a few kills to level up?
If so that seems....pointless.

having it doable in an hour is just going to make it feel like an "event" piece.
Log in->do event to 50-> back to weekly requirements when done...never giving it a 2nd look till the cap is increased.

Hopefull im wrong, I'm at work so haven't had the chance to log in today and check it out.

I know some people who seem to think I shouldn't be allowed to have/voice an opinion before playing BLU.
Mostly they just seem to want me to enjoy it for what it is, but I honestly don't see the point. We already know it has no endgame.

It would be like saying that I don't know the joy of having a car before I own one.. and then having me buy a car that doesn't drive - doesn't work - won't go anywhere. Yay, I have a car, I can sit in it... but it won't move.
Yay, I leveled BLU, ...but now I can't do content with it. What's the point?
Why would I go level it, risk liking it, and then have more disappointment in not being able to play it normally - raiding, endgame.

I beg SE to never add a limited job again, and find a way to implement this to work as any other job would. The player base has some excellent suggestions already. I would love for SE to look into more options.

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Originally Posted by Rhus

I hear people have Blu at 50 within an hour...how is that even possible?
It's not even possible o do wwith normal Dow/M and they have level roulette to speed It along.
is the Level up requirement and xp gains from monster kills nerfed/boosted so much that it only takes a few kills to level up?
If so that seems....pointless.

having it doable in an hour is just going to make it feel like an "event" piece.
Log in->do event to 50-> back to weekly requirements when done...never giving it a 2nd look till the cap is increased.

Hopefull im wrong, I'm at work so haven't had the chance to log in today and check it out.

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People have BLU at 50, but it'll take much longer to obtain all the spells.

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Originally Posted by Nabiri

We already know it has no endgame.

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By that definition, Gathering has no endgame, Crafting has no endgame, PvP has no endgame, Gold Saucer has no endgame, Sightseeig has no endgame, Hunts has no endgame, Grand Companies have no endgame...

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Gathering has no endgame, Crafting has no endgame

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That's not quite true. Their end-game is the latest tier of their respected fields, which often requires as much gear investment as Savage raiding.

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Grand Companies have no endgame...

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That's arguably a problem more so than something to use as support to your argument. Though I do concede that BLU's endgame is the Masked Carnivale. That much was obvious from the get-go. Now, how long would this end-game last (in comparison with other 'endgames' when a new tier comes out) remains to be seen.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

That's arguably a problem more so than something to use as support to your argument.

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You still have the process of gaining Captain Rank, which is completely unrelated to leveling or gear, so it's a "kind" of endgame. For me, endgame is simply a thing that needs investment after the whole leveling process. Wether this investement is skill, randomness, steady progress or money doesn't negate its purpose.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Though I do concede that BLU's endgame is the Masked Carnivale.

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Exactly. BLU simply has its own endgame, and, from my point of view, I'm more interested in a new concept of endgame than simply having a new job to do the same things I could do with every other job.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

I'm more interested in a new concept of endgame than simply having a new job to do the same things I could do with every other job.

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I'd rather have both :D now we can only hope it'll happen one day

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

I'd rather have both :D now we can only hope it'll happen one day

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Well, you'll have two new jobs to do endgame in late June. And a Public Dungeon as different endgame in Hydatos before that.

Which covers the issue of having Several endgame but only one of them is allowed to be the universal more rewarding regarding gear, or else those who do this content will feel completely betrayed and will complain endlessly. So, those other endgames needs to stay separate.

I'd be content with squadron functionality

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Well, you'll have two new jobs to do endgame in late June.

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See, the thing is, I'm a person who cares about flavor and gameplay. So if I do end up liking BLU, telling me I have other jobs to play the rest of the game with doesn't quite cut it, as has been covered at length in this thread and others.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

So if I do end up liking BLU, telling me I have other jobs to play the rest of the game with doesn't quite cut it, as has been covered at length in this thread and others.

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Sure, but if you like BLU because of the customization and the collection part, it would be pretty difficult to keep those while joining everything else.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

No. Because BLU is customizable, there will be disagreement of what spells you should have equipped, so, to prevent drama into the duties, it is limited.

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You realize that this is essentially the same thing as discussing a job's optimal rotation, correct? Continuously spamming Water Cannon and nothing else isn't optimal by any means. Likewise, spamming Shield Lob also isn't optimal. When formulating a rotation, actions are compared against each other to determine what has the greatest value and what should be prioritized. Any discussion related to what spells should be equipped will cover the exact same points.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Sure, but if you like BLU because of the customization and the collection part, it would be pretty difficult to keep those while joining everything else.

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True, but at the same time, if they integrated BLU into the rest of the game correctly, that won't be going anywhere. It will still be there in the Masked Carnivale. So for me, and many others, it would still be a net gain.

Funny how I am only lvl 14 and I kinda already use a small rotation to kill monsters for exp. Buff for attack, the ice to make damage over time and then water on single enemies and the aoes on groups. Hm sounds a lot like other jobs to me. Also final sting and self destruction do kill you but not necessarily the monster thus I dont find much use in them right now (other for seeing the skill be cast)

Of course that can change later but if you truly want to use blue to maybe run some instances solo and challenge yourself you will have a rotation, simply because it gives the most DPS. Thus I still dont understand why this could not have a certain amount of balanced skills for instances and the rest for fun outside of them. How long will blowing yourself up be really funny?

Its also really frustrating if you have trolls or people who seemingly dont understand the basic of how we learn it..and if there is no one there you are (if its on your level range) just standing there, getting hit, and are waiting for the skill to be used..was not fun for me.

I can see it being fun at max level with all its skills and maybe trying it out in the carneval, but this could have been done as a normal job with the carneval on top too. Also for this I feel like the journey is supposed to be the fun part and if that is not fun for me I am not sure what I would get out of this. Killing useless trash monsters around the world for flashy skills?

Its great to see more people on the maps but honestly isnt that always the case with new jobs?

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Originally Posted by Nabiri

I know some people who seem to think I shouldn't be allowed to have/voice an opinion before playing BLU.
Mostly they just seem to want me to enjoy it for what it is, but I honestly don't see the point. We already know it has no endgame.

It would be like saying that I don't know the joy of having a car before I own one.. and then having me buy a car that doesn't drive - doesn't work - won't go anywhere. Yay, I have a car, I can sit in it... but it won't move.
Yay, I leveled BLU, ...but now I can't do content with it. What's the point?
Why would I go level it, risk liking it, and then have more disappointment in not being able to play it normally - raiding, endgame.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

By that definition, Gathering has no endgame, Crafting has no endgame

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That's not quite true. Their end-game is the latest tier of their respected fields, which often requires as much gear investment as Savage raiding.

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You missed the "By that definition" part. Nabiri complained that not playing it "normally" (which she clarified as meaning raiding) meant that there was no point in BLU, as "We already know it has no endgame." Reynhart responded to point out that there are other things that don't have that specific endgame.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Though I do concede that BLU's endgame is the Masked Carnivale. That much was obvious from the get-go. Now, how long would this end-game last (in comparison with other 'endgames' when a new tier comes out) remains to be seen.

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Exactly. BLU has its own endgame, just like crafting and gathering have their own endgame, etc. Nabiri and numerous others are insisting that the only endgame that counts is raiding, and they're ignoring that the game already has alternate endgames that lots of other players like.

I agree that how good BLU's endgame is remains to be seen, but just demanding that the mere fact that it's something other than raiding makes it automatically pointless is ridiculous. There are plenty of people who like FFXIV but don't like raiding (or simply want some variety and to have something else to do besides raiding once in a while). Those are the people BLU is for.

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Originally Posted by Blueyes

I hope people realize the double standard that is being applied to Blue Mage. The number one argument that people state as a reason for why Blue Mage should be limited is that, because some BLUs will be lazy, no BLU should be allowed entry. If we applied that same logic to every job, everything would be limited.

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Ok, in a thread with over a thousand posts, it's possible I've forgotten a couple, but I don't recall having seen anyone make that argument, that blue mages would be lazy. The most common argument was that it would be somewhere between prohibitively difficult and impossible to balance dungeon content for a job that's as varied as BLU.

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Originally Posted by Noodle_Trinidad

I think it'd easily be done if you balanced the skills around a bit, I mean it already has 49 skills it can learn, no reason you can't just shrink down that pool a tad and have it more balanced to existing content.

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Shrink it down? That 49 is just the initial starting point. It has over a hundred planned already, with undoubtedly more to come after that. That's the whole point of it. BLU is a collector's job, and collecting all those skills is its main point in existing (just as it has been in every other iteration). You can't shrink down the number of skills to something approaching other jobs without removing BLU's whole purpose.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

Ok, in a thread with over a thousand posts, it's possible I've forgotten a couple, but I don't recall having seen anyone make that argument

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The devs did in the Fanfest panel. They didn't call it 'lazy', but they described a situation whereas a BLU wouldn't have all the necessary spells for the content and be kicked from parties for it. And that can only happen if someone attempts content before performing the necessary preparations. Which is a double standard because how many people have we seen in Shinryu without their level 70 skills and gear? How many jobs do we see in all sorts of content without the skills that are locked behind job quests, or even the job themselves?

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You can't shrink down the number of skills to something approaching other jobs without removing BLU's whole purpose.

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You can if you keep those skills to the Masked Carnivale (thus maintaining the exact state we already have right now), but only work within instances with that limited number of skills.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

Shrink it down? That 49 is just the initial starting point. It has over a hundred planned already, with undoubtedly more to come after that. That's the whole point of it. BLU is a collector's job, and collecting all those skills is its main point in existing (just as it has been in every other iteration). You can't shrink down the number of skills to something approaching other jobs without removing BLU's whole purpose.

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They could probably do it. You can already save sets of spells; they could just have a specific set balanced for party play that is the only one that can be active in the current "restricted" content and save the hotbar separately. If you don't have all of the ones in the balanced set, it just doesn't let you in. Then you can have the "balanced version" and everywhere else they can go now with the 49-100 spells you can do whatever you want. The question is whether they want to bother. So far I'm gonna say no since for a functioning job they need to actually be able to acquire weapons to be fair to everyone else and they didn't even bother designing those.

Yeah, you'll feel gimped inside party play, but I dunno some people might accept that to have the extra option some might not.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

The devs did in the Fanfest panel. They didn't call it 'lazy', but they described a situation whereas a BLU wouldn't have all the necessary spells for the content and be kicked from parties for it.

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This wasn't the only reason they stated though, and the devs have this fear based on evidence. I call it the "DRK provoke" problem. If this was the only reason, you would have a case, but it's not. The devs also stated that certain skills would be overpowered/wouldnt work in a standard party setting, and the restriction is put in place so that BLU parties have the creative freedom to be BLUs while not spoiling the run for a random just running his roulette. The devs used the awful example of lvl 5 death on Omega, but a better example would be: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygUMAQr1Kxg

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

This wasn't the only reason they stated though

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Yeah but we're debating that one right now :P

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not spoiling the run for a random just running his roulette.

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What about the WHM who hasn't done a single job quest since level 50 in the Vault? That sure ruined my run of the place as a tank. Double Standards, again.

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The devs used the awful example of lvl 5 death on Omega

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A curse of their own design, and one I disagree with. I mean, you're not wrong. But then I can just say that I think they were wrong to give us all those skills in the first place. NOT TO MENTION - what's keeping people form using those griefing skills outside of dungeons? Just because BLU can't use matchmaking doesn't mean they can't bother other players. I've been in Eureka Pyros the other day and the boss just kept being pingponged around by people using various knockbacks. BLU has Sticky Tongue outside of instances too. The problem isn't putting it in an instance, it's putting it in the game in the first place.

So I spent most of today leveling BLU with a friend of mine, no power leveling, just mob grinding and spell gathering. And you know what, I had some fun. But most of the time, i was just spamming rams voice/thousand needles in a group of mobs in the overworld, no thought, nothing complex, and you know what else? There's still no reason it shouldn't be in the duty finder, apart from its pretty strong aoe, there's nothing about it that is so mega broken it shouldn't be there apart from like peculiar light being a stupid strong buff. A blu who is doing their job quests will already have spells that will work in df dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

Exactly. BLU has its own endgame, just like crafting and gathering have their own endgame, etc. Nabiri and numerous others are insisting that the only endgame that counts is raiding, and they're ignoring that the game already has alternate endgames that lots of other players like.

I agree that how good BLU's endgame is remains to be seen, but just demanding that the mere fact that it's something other than raiding makes it automatically pointless is ridiculous. There are plenty of people who like FFXIV but don't like raiding (or simply want some variety and to have something else to do besides raiding once in a while). Those are the people BLU is for.

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I couldn't care less about what things people consider endgame.
I'm not here to argue with you or anyone. I'm here to plead with SE for change.

What I was actually saying is that I can't enjoy it the way I enjoy other jobs in the game. Raiding was an example of something I like to do. I want it's usability to be the same as other jobs. To be able to do the same content.
I worry that more limited jobs will be added. Jobs that I'm hoping for and looking forward to, just to not be able to play them as I can play jobs now.

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Originally Posted by Nabiri

What I was actually saying is that I can't enjoy it the way I enjoy other jobs in the game. Raiding was an example of something I like to do. I want it's usability to be the same as other jobs. To be able to do the same content.
I worry that more limited jobs will be added. Jobs that I'm hoping for and looking forward to, just to not be able to play them as I can play jobs now.

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Okay cool. Except it's not a job like the others in the game. It's a LIMITED JOB. It is not designed, planned and intended for it to be taken into current end game content. Maybe one day they will revise this but right now, this is quite enough.

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

Okay cool. Except it's not a job like the others in the game. It's a LIMITED JOB. It is not designed, planned and intended for it to be taken into current end game content. Maybe one day they will revise this but right now, this is quite enough.

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With enough time and creativity they could make it work as a regular job. Just need to keep some spells solo/preformed/undersized only. I myself think it's fine as is, but I have no doubt that they could make it work if they really wanted to. They currently don't, but they have changed their minds before repeatedly.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

With enough time and creativity they could make it work as a regular job. Just need to keep some spells solo/preformed/undersized only. I myself think it's fine as is, but I have no doubt that they could make it work if they really wanted to. They currently don't, but they have changed their minds before repeatedly.

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Yeah that's why we got Eureka instead of Diadem. Clearly forward thinkers.

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

Yeah that's why we got Eureka instead of Diadem. Clearly forward thinkers.

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I didn't say it was likely, only that it was possible.