Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

Because you didn't need to refresh the CT so soon. You've "wasted" 4 seconds of the CT debuff due to unnecessary overlap.

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Also because if you wipe a buffed up CT or Phleb (used w/ BfB and/or IR up) you will lose that 4 seconds of dots.

Can someone give the 2.1 new rotations
I just returned today and now Im confused because jump is useful now

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Originally Posted by SpyteSone

Can someone give the 2.1 new rotations
I just returned today and now Im confused because jump is useful now

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Jump has always been useful, they messed up the nice timing it had with power surge now, though. And the best rotation is laid out like every other page. And the front page, and the page you posted on.

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Originally Posted by Peptaru

Jump has always been useful, they messed up the nice timing it had with power surge now, though. And the best rotation is laid out like every other page. And the front page, and the page you posted on.

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Hmmm...
Okay.
Well is it the same as it was before 2.1?

Pretty much, but some folks are dropping fracture.

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Originally Posted by Peptaru

Pretty much, but some folks are dropping fracture.

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Urgh... So much to read. I wish someone would cliff it for me (the essential news) but I'd have to get off my lazy butt and read I suppose lol

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Originally Posted by Peptaru

Pretty much, but some folks are dropping fracture.

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I dropped fracture right at the end of 2.0, but i'm considering to adding it back in my rotation just to see how things will go in 2.1. People say they drop it so they can have an easier time keeping up HT, but i never had any trouble keeping HT up.

The original intent was a strong (enough) attack that could be used to prevent buffed CT problems and CT clipping. Now Ph, CT, and even FT have been buffed -- add that to the fact that you can overwrite any CT with another CT, and many folks aren't finding Fr worth the hassle.

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Originally Posted by Peptaru

The original intent was a strong (enough) attack that could be used to prevent buffed CT problems and CT clipping. Now Ph, CT, and even FT have been buffed -- add that to the fact that you can overwrite any CT with another CT, and many folks aren't finding Fr worth the hassle.

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^^ this

10characters

I know Im asking too much, can someone cliff what our combos are?

And without the initials like Ht, I don't understand some of them aside from obvious ones like CT=Chaos Thrust

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Originally Posted by SpyteSone

I know Im asking too much, can someone cliff what our combos are?

And without the initials like Ht, I don't understand some of them aside from obvious ones like CT=Chaos Thrust

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Well it is Christmas.....I'll do the first line and you should be able to finish the rest. IDC = chaos thrust combo, TTT = final thrust combo, for future reference

Heavy Thrust - Impulse Drive - Disembowel - Chaos Thrust - Phlebotomize - True Thrust - Vorpal Thrust - Final Thrust //
HT - TTT - P - IDC //
HT - TTT - P - TTT //
repeat from the top

Pretty much the only rotation you need...

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Originally Posted by Sir_Maxwell

Well it is Christmas.....I'll do the first line and you should be able to finish the rest. IDC = chaos thrust combo, TTT = final thrust combo, for future reference

Heavy Thrust - Impulse Drive - Disembowel - Chaos Thrust - Phlebotomize - True Thrust - Vorpal Thrust - Final Thrust //
HT - TTT - P - IDC //
HT - TTT - P - TTT //
repeat from the top

Pretty much the only rotation you need...

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No jumps??

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Originally Posted by SpyteSone

No jumps??

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You can't really throw jumps into a rotation as a couple of them you could save for fight mechanics and gap closers, but the first part of the rotation the OGCDs (off global cooldowns) are weaved in as so

HT - Blood for Blood - ID - Internal Release - Dis - Leg Sweep - CT - Power Surge - Ph - Jump - TT - Spineshatter Dive - VT - Life Surge - FT - Dragonfire Dive

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Originally Posted by SpyteSone

No jumps??

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The Rotation posted is your GCD (Global Cooldown) rotation. Jumps and some other abilities are off the GCD and thus are not part of the "Rotation"

Basically you should weave those Off the Global CD abilities into the Opening Rotation (between abilities), and then weave them back in as they come off of Cooldown. Only exception is if you need to save a particular ability for a mechanic (Dragonfire dive for an AOE Phase)

So weaving Off the Global CD abilities into your rotation for the opener should look something like this.

HT {Blood for Blood} I {Internal Release} D {Leg Sweep} CT {Power Surge} Ph {Jump} TT {Spineshatter Dive} VT {Life Surge} FT {Dragonfire Dive}


Now you continue the rotation and use all of the Off the GCD abilities as they come off CD for maximum DPS.

OK I know for a fact that you guys have posted plenty of BiS lists, but I have a friend with DRG as their main who insists that the new BiS is mostly Allagan, can you guys confirm or deny this please?

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Originally Posted by kaox_reaper

OK I know for a fact that you guys have posted plenty of BiS lists, but I have a friend with DRG as their main who insists that the new BiS is mostly Allagan, can you guys confirm or deny this please?

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Wouldn't those BiS lists that you know for a fact were already posted confirm or deny this? Not really sure what more you want if multiple people "confirmed" BiS stuff by posting said lists.

Personally I'm going for a Max Determination set just to try it out. Should be 370 or so DET.

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Originally Posted by kaox_reaper

OK I know for a fact that you guys have posted plenty of BiS lists, but I have a friend with DRG as their main who insists that the new BiS is mostly Allagan, can you guys confirm or deny this please?

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Yea i thought the same thing too where bis for drgs was mostly allagan. I came up with this bis list which i think is better. let me know what u guys think.

Weapon:Gae bolg zenith
helm:allagan of maim
body:myth
gloves:allagan
waist:heros belt of maim
legs:allagan
feet:allagan
neck:heros of slaying
ear:tremor of strike
wrist:allagan of maim
ring:vortex and allagan of striking

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Originally Posted by Wootzor3000

Yea i thought the same thing too where bis for drgs was mostly allagan. I came up with this bis list which i think is better. let me know what u guys think.

Weapon:Gae bolg zenith
helm:allagan of maim
body:myth
gloves:allagan
waist:heros belt of maim
legs:allagan
feet:allagan
neck:heros of slaying
ear:tremor of strike
wrist:allagan of maim
ring:vortex and allagan of striking

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Without even looking at what stats you're getting, not having the allagan spear as bis is wrong.

As mentioned countless times in this thread as long as you're using the i95 spear, not going too far over the acc cap, and are wearing full i90, the difference of dps between all the sets is <10dps at most.

I was asking because he's been looking at other lists and they don't list ad much Myth gear as the lists here, for instance:the lists he saw states that the myth head and chest are BiS everything else Allagan

Sounds like the old list, with old jewerly and the old +1 for accuracy.

Oh well I like the new list better i guess, only cause the myth helm is part of it. that helm is just so ill and has the dragoon lookk.

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Originally Posted by Sir_Maxwell

Without even looking at what stats you're getting, not having the allagan spear as bis is wrong.

As mentioned countless times in this thread as long as you're using the i95 spear, not going too far over the acc cap, and are wearing full i90, the difference of dps between all the sets is <10dps at most.

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How long would fully slotted i70 crafteds like gryphonskin or ear screws last?

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Originally Posted by Sylari

How long would fully slotted i70 crafteds like gryphonskin or ear screws last?

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I would think that iLvl 90 replace it, not totally sure for iLvl80 from CT. For armors it's without a doubt as crafted items will lack defense / magic defense and vitality, for jewelry it may be a bit different. But that's pretty easy to set, can you post the total differents stats of lets say your gryphonskin bracers with the materias meld in it? (Meaning str, det, acc, crit, SS) the maths will do the rest ;)

Personally, I would try to replace properly penta-melded crafted i70 last (as far as replacing i70 goes). But if you happen to get an i90 for that slot, the i90 is better. i80 is debatable, for a good penta-meld, so that would be a judgement call.

BTW,

What accuracy should i be at turn 5?
I have 479 now, but if switch to the wyrm pants, i think i have about 465.

please correct me if i'm wrong, but i was shooting for 482-485 for turn 5

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Originally Posted by SpyteSone

Urgh... So much to read. I wish someone would cliff it for me (the essential news) but I'd have to get off my lazy butt and read I suppose lol

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I'll be editing the main post soon enough to reflect the changes, but being the Christmas holidays and all I'll probably do it in chunks.

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Originally Posted by zeth07

Wouldn't those BiS lists that you know for a fact were already posted confirm or deny this? Not really sure what more you want if multiple people "confirmed" BiS stuff by posting said lists.

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I have some questions regarding all of the BiS posts that I will bring up below.

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Originally Posted by snowybell

BTW,

What accuracy should i be at turn 5?
I have 479 now, but if switch to the wyrm pants, i think i have about 465.

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The problem is I have seen no hard evidence confirming the ~480 accuracy cap, which is odd considering how often it is thrown around. I posted my own Turn 5 evidence many pages back that showed zero misses over an hour and a half at 473 accuracy. Since then I've done hours and hours of Turn 5 at 473 accuracy and continue to have zero misses, so I refuse to use any BiS list that uses anything around a 480 accuracy cap. If someone posts something to back it up then I will reassess, but for now I've only got my own numbers to go by.

So before I update the BiS links in the main post I want to see a BiS list that uses 472-473 as the cap (which was the cap used for the two original lists in the OP), with comparisons of +2% accuracy food such as deviled eggs (so ~465 accuracy to hit the cap), to a list using buttons or similar hitting the accuracy cap using gear alone. Hopefully for pre and post Turn 5. I'll do it myself in a couple days if I don't see anything posted by then.

Either way, getting a definitive BiS list isn't something that must be done NOW. Any dps differences between lists will be so minor as to be effectively pointless. However, I do want to have an accurate BiS list within a week or so for the number hogs among us.

EDIT: my god I have to rewrite everything, the damage buffs have balls'd up all the numbers

So now that Jump's timing is off with PS (thanks Obama), do you guys wait for PS to refresh before Jumping again, or do you Jump immediately then wait for Jump to refresh again to PS > Jump? OR do you just PS > SSD if SSD is up?

Personally I just Jump again and let PS sit there until Jump is ready again, but I feel like I might be losing DPS having it sit there for so long ready to use. Having Jump sit there sounds even worse to me, though.

What do you guys do?

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Originally Posted by Valus

So now that Jump's timing is off with PS (thanks Obama), do you guys wait for PS to refresh before Jumping again, or do you Jump immediately then wait for Jump to refresh again to PS > Jump? OR do you just PS > SSD if SSD is up?

Personally I just Jump again and let PS sit there until Jump is ready again, but I feel like I might be losing DPS having it sit there for so long ready to use. Having Jump sit there sounds even worse to me, though.

What do you guys do?

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Isn't too hard to figure out. If you wait you do 300 potency every 60s (PS+Jump every 60s for 300 potency). Otherwise you do 500 potency every 80s (300 to start, wait 40s then Jump again, then wait 40s and start over). These timers cross at 240s (so 4 rounds with a 60s timer, 3 rounds with an 80s timer), giving you 4*300=1200 potency if you wait, 3*500=1500 potency if you don't, after 240s of course, then it all starts again.

You can get finicky on fights that last less than 4mins if you want. For example depending on exact fight duration it can be slightly better to wait or do them together, but as a broad rule of thumb use everything as soon as it comes off cooldown and don't bother going out of your way to sync cooldowns.

I've been watching this thread for some time, and as I feel it really has made me improve as a DRG, I'd like to thank everyone that contributed to the thread. c:

I have a few questions, if anybody doesn't mind answering them. It'd be highly appreciated.

1) I understand the concept of a BiS and that as of 2.1 the current one has a lot of Myth gear in it, which is mainly due to the Allagan Lance. Unfortunately enough, nobody on my server has managed to clear Turn 5 yet (as far as I know, anyway), so would this a solid BiS to strive for? Honestly speaking, I don't particuarly care about the BiS as much as I do for having a goal in terms of gears. I'm not part of a static, so I just pug it when I can. Myth is just far easier to get, and it’s nice to have something to aim for.

2) I see that most, if not all people, seem to agree that the highest modeled DPS is EMX's rotation. My question is regarding a) trash mobs (or those that won't survive a full rotation due to high DPS being present in party/raid), b) mobs that DPS have to tank (limiting the use of any skill that require positioning), and c) bosses with any sort of AoEs that require you to reposition/dodge before continuing your rotation (ADS for example).

What about the ideal rotation for these 3 scenarios? At the moment, I deal with a) using something along the lines of the rotation Ayvar posted under the "Go Buffed or Go Home" Section. For b), I don't really use any rotation per se, and just use Fra and Phb followed by the True Thrust combo. And for c) I simply try to finish the rotation even if Disembowel and HT drops by the time I get to True Thrust.

I'd like to see if there’s anything I can do to improve my DPS overall, so any and all feedback would be awesome.

Still confused what the BiS items are.

I saw this.


Im not getting turn 5 anytime soon
http://xivdb.com/?wardrobe/3298/Pre-Turn-5-DRG-BiS

Hey Ayvar, thanks for your response. I will change my gear only for turn 5 to maintain about 470 accuracy. The rest (primal ex etc) isn't that accuracy hungry anyway.

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Originally Posted by Ayvar

I have some questions regarding all of the BiS posts that I will bring up below.

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I was wondering the exact same thing myself since nothing seemed to change when multiple people apparently said they had less than 480 without missing and now suddenly people were back to posting 480+ was "needed".

My guess was that they were using HQ eggs just for all that Crit. and the added Acc was just a "bonus" that put them at the 480+ mark anyway. I guess the other question would be if that 24 Crit would actually be better than 10 Crit + 16 Det from Buttons In A Blanket, but I didn't do the math. That would possibly be another reason for getting that number instead. That difference is probably negligible to the point that getting 480+ acc would be a better safe than sorry situation.

Without the food the BiS lists that I saw would be at 472 Acc with gear alone which is right near the previous 473 number, so it kinda makes sense.

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Originally Posted by Razgard

So I got my gryphonskin ring and kinda' messed up on the materias. I put vit8, crit4, crit4, det3, det3 since I thought that was the cap on it from the materia cap chart. How much of a DPS loss is 4 crit and 2 det, anything significant or am I just worrying for nothing?

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Are you sure that's wrong? Everything I've read says the cap is 12crit and 8 det so those numbers should be fine?

Taken from a monk topic on the DPS forum, the acc cap should be around 472 for turns 1-2-3-4 and part of the 5. Only Twintania would be asking for 482 acc.
Not being in turn 5 yet I don't know if she represent a big part of the turn or a neglictible one, but she would be the only one requiring that acc value in Coil.

Edit : the link to the subject in question : ACC cap for current content.
If what is stated is right, it's not even Twintania but only some T5 adds that require the 482 acc cap, everything else in Coil (Twintania included) asks for the 472 cap. If that's the case I would tend for a 472 acc cap for my BiS list and endure one or two misses on trashes 3-5 minutes per weeks.

I think that depends on how important it is to down said adds in X amount of time. If I miss a disembowel or vorpal thrust and have to reset the combo, which makes something bad happen cuz an add did not die on time.... I will wear higher accuracy just to be sure that doesn't happen.

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Originally Posted by Migosha

If what is stated is right, it's not even Twintania but only some T5 adds that require the 482 acc cap, everything else in Coil (Twintania included) asks for the 472 cap. If that's the case I would tend for a 472 acc cap for my BiS list and endure one or two misses on trashes 3-5 minutes per weeks.

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If it's the adds it must be the dreadknights, cause I've parsed everything else and haven't missed at 473. I'll have to run another parse to confirm it's them.

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Originally Posted by Ayvar

If it's the adds it must be the dreadknights, cause I've parsed everything else and haven't missed at 473. I'll have to run another parse to confirm it's them.

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I can't tell for sure as I'm at T4 atm, so I don't know T5 battles/bestiary yet. In the other topic the person was talking about dragons and snakes from strat of the Turn :

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on T5 the adds cap at 482 but only the adds (snakes and dragons at start)

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If it's only for trashes it's pretty irrelevant to go for 482 as BiS. If it's for Twintania's adds (or any boss adds) then I would just have a piece to swap for that battle to get those 482 ACC. I wouldn't etablish a BiS list where the ACC is made for 0.5% of the content and a loss of stat 99.5% of the rest, I guess that's what you meant in an ealier topic Ayvar.
I'll see how those 10 ACC too much from the BiS list can be remployed to gain some stats. I know those 10 stats won't change anything, it's more for the principle.

(Sorry for two posts, but that 1000 caracters' limitation is killing me >.<)

A quick look at the list would make me swap Allagan Ring of striking instead of maiming (+5 ACC) and AF gloves instead of Allagan gloves (-15 ACC) for a final -10 ACC. And you can switch back those two items if you want the 482 ACC.
Someone using a script for BiS determination will probably get a lil better result than me. It's a 1.743 score gain in the end with current weights. So roughly a 0.9 DPS gain. No need to say that it won't change the world ;)

So it should be something like :

Allagan Spear
Wyrm's Armet
Wyrm's mail
Wyrm's Gauntlets
Hero's belt of maiming
Wyrm's Breeches
Wyrm's Greaves
Hero's necklace of Slaying
Hero's earrings of slaying
Infernal Flames
Allagan ring of striking
Vortex Attacker

Everything in this list is from Myth except 2 rings and a Bracer.

Edit : thanks for the tip Peptaru :)
Corrected for the bracer I forgot to erase when doing the list.