BLU for Duty Finder and Raids! Show your support!

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Originally Posted by redcurrant18

I don't care that much for endgame content or raids either, but Blue Mage should at least be allowed to participate in the main quest. If someone wants to main Blue Mage and do endgame content? The solution is to let them level another job if they want, not force them to use another job when they really want to go through the story as a Blue Mage.

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The three main restrictions I really want them to lift are story, squadron command missions and roulettes in a full pre-made party.

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Originally Posted by Elerus

But, realistically, I don't think there is a way for Square to get away from having a rotation.

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"Rotation" is the same kind of word as "diet" is. Saying that "I'm on a diet" is incorrect just like saying that "I have a rotation" is. You have a diet, always. The only creatures that don't have a diet are the ones that are dead, and the only people without a rotation (in a game) are the ones that don't do anything at all. So no. It is literally impossible for anyone in any game to avoid any kind of rotation.

There are however different kinds of rotations, like there are different kinds of diets. The set rotations where you follow it to a T from start to finish then rinse and repeat, the priority based rotations where you choose X skill over Y skill if it's available, the random rotations where you spam anything that's on in whatever order whatsoever and so on.

The "bad" rotations are the fixed ones, where there is exactly ONE way to play well, other ways being anywhere between "sub-par" to "tragic".
With priority-based rotation there is some variation that becomes available beyond your control. It's like turns when you are driving. People realized that super-long straight roads are LETHAL, more dangerous than many corners, so they add unnecessary turns to stuff nowadays to alleviate that. That's what the random procs are.
With random rotation...yeah. Let's not get there, it's not going to work in any performance-based game.
With variable rotations...well, they removed some kinds of them, rotations based on targets resistance. There is a limited form of Single Target VS AoE decision. But it IS possible to make several side-to-side rotations that act differently, but can be interchangeable. It's a bit too complicated though so Square Enix will not do it. Even if they could, they won't, cause they dumb this game down every opportunity they get already.


As for the skills datamined, someone said that about half of them comes from dungeons. I checked it and I saw it stating only one enemy or one area for every skill. Though I won't be going through it to check individual ones, I can say from that, that it is an incomplete list. I'd say it only shows the place with the highest chance of obtaining the skill, not the only place to get it. For example it shows 1000 needles for Thanalan, but the trailer did show the Blue Mage learning it in Cutters Cry.
Though yes, monsters in the overworld simply do not use many or unique skills so many of them WILL be only from dungeons. Maybe with Blue Mage out, they'll change that in their design in the future. Maybe even update the old maps seeing as they are not beyond changing them as this patch proved.


I do agree that the Squadrons should be available though. I see no reason for them not to be.

Also, the suicide skills and Mighty Guard show that Blue Mage was made with having parties in some sort of consideration. Neither of them have much of any sense for a solo Blue Mage. So it's not like they completely dismiss party for Blue Mage unlike some people keep claiming.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

So it's not like they completely dismiss party for Blue Mage unlike some people keep claiming.

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https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...77/unknown.png

I mean in our defense, those 'some people' were first and foremost the devs...

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

I mean in our defense, those 'some people' were first and foremost the devs...

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Didn't they have a slide in that very same presentation that said part of BLU progression was forming parties and undertaking instance duties?

Found it:
https://i.imgur.com/zcVr0jv.png

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

I mean in our defense, those 'some people' were first and foremost the devs...

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I think you need to take more care when reading.

"Not like they completely dismiss" is not the same as "They will focus on party play". It means that the party play will be there, will get something here or there, but will not be the focus.

Unless you want to explain to me why Blue Mages have a skill that REQUIRES a party to even be usable, and it being a skill specifically implemented for this iteration of Blue Mage through secondary means since no monsters use anything remotely similar.

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Originally Posted by redcurrant18

I don't care that much for endgame content or raids either, but Blue Mage should at least be allowed to participate in the main quest. If someone wants to main Blue Mage and do endgame content? The solution is to let them level another job if they want, not force them to use another job when they really want to go through the story as a Blue Mage.

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At present they would have to play a completely different job through the 2.0 story, play BLU through 2.55 and then have to pick up and play a different job [maybe the one prior to BLU doesnt really matter] to continue past 2.55 and they would have to level that job other than BLU up to 50+ to continue as well. At present using BLU for MSQ would be very lackluster and only put the player in a horrible spot to actually get through the MSQ.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

At present they would have to play a completely different job through the 2.0 story, play BLU through 2.55 and then have to pick up and play a different job [maybe the one prior to BLU doesnt really matter] to continue past 2.55 and they would have to level that job other than BLU up to 50+ to continue as well. At present using BLU for MSQ would be very lackluster and only put the player in a horrible spot to actually get through the MSQ.

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That may be so for now, but as the level cap continues to increase for Blue Mage then player should have the ability to progress through the story as a Blue Mage. If someone wants to main Blue Mage I don't see why we can't let them - as long as beforehand there's a warning of some sort to say:

"Blue Mage cannot participate in Raid Roulette/Alliance Raid Roulette/PvP/etc unless they are part of a premade party to ensure fairness."

Or

"Blue Mage will not gain experience points from this point on until the level cap is increased. It is recommended to have a side job at a sufficient level to continue progressing onto further quests."

You could even add in lore that says that Blue Mage would be too susceptible to the influence of such powerful monsters, locking them out from Extreme fights and raids. There are many creative ways this can be dealt with and still increase player satisfaction. Alternatively, they could raise the level cap to 80 and add in additional Blue Magic spells later in Shadowbringers. We don't need 50 spells per expansion, and I would be okay if more spells were added over time to encourage me to go play as Blue Mage. If people know what they are signing up for, and we do, I say let us do what we want.

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Originally Posted by redcurrant18

That may be so for now, but as the level cap continues to increase for Blue Mage then player should have the ability to progress through the story as a Blue Mage. If someone wants to main Blue Mage I don't see why we can't let them - as long as beforehand there's a warning of some sort to say:

"Blue Mage cannot participate in Raid Roulette/Alliance Raid Roulette/PvP/etc unless they are part of a premade party to ensure fairness."

Or

"Blue Mage will not gain experience points from this point on until the level cap is increased. It is recommended to have a side job at a sufficient level to continue progressing onto further quests."

You could even add in lore that says that Blue Mage would be too susceptible to the influence of such powerful monsters, locking them out from Extreme fights and raids. There are many creative ways this can be dealt with and still increase player satisfaction. Alternatively, they could raise the level cap to 80 and add in additional Blue Magic spells later in Shadowbringers. We don't need 50 spells per expansion, and I would be okay if more spells were added over time to encourage me to go play as Blue Mage. If people know what they are signing up for, and we do, I say let us do what we want.

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Even after the level cap increases it would be a disjointed mess. Once it goes up to 60 then any new BLU player would still have to level a job to 50 through the 2.0 MSQ, get to play blue till 60 and the 3.55 MSQ and then have to level a job from whatever the next highest they have is [likely just the previous 50] to 60 so as to continue the MSQ. That trend will continue onward until BLU potentially, maybe reaches the same level cap as current cap in whatever future expansion that may happen in. Until then just to elaborate the trend, when BLU eventually gets to 70 and gets to play through 4.55 MSQ, unless the player kept up leveling an alt job, they would have to level their level 50 from 50 to 70 just to continue onward to Shadowbringers MSQ, that would be compounded again the following expansion, having to level that 50 from 50 to 80 and so on. [For any new BLU]

I honestly feel like if SE went and opened up the rather small segment of MSQ BLU could do that people would be more upset at being needlessly teased than happy they got to play it in the MSQ for a period of time before having to drudge through leveling an alt job just to continue on with the MSQ, especially if they are a new, or any old really, player and only have 1 real job leveled up decently at the time and are now forced to level up a low level job to continue with the MSQ. Seems very off putting to players for very little satisfactional benefit.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Even after the level cap increases it would be a disjointed mess. Once it goes up to 60 then any new BLU player would still have to level a job to 50 through the 2.0 MSQ, get to play blue till 60 and the 3.55 MSQ and then have to level a job from whatever the next highest they have is [likely just the previous 50] to 60 so as to continue the MSQ. That trend will continue onward until BLU potentially, maybe reaches the same level cap as current cap in whatever future expansion that may happen in. Until then just to elaborate the trend, when BLU eventually gets to 70 and gets to play through 4.55 MSQ, unless the player kept up leveling an alt job, they would have to level their level 50 from 50 to 70 just to continue onward to Shadowbringers MSQ, that would be compounded again the following expansion, having to level that 50 from 50 to 80 and so on. [For any new BLU]

I honestly feel like if SE went and opened up the rather small segment of MSQ BLU could do that people would be more upset at being needlessly teased than happy they got to play it in the MSQ for a period of time before having to drudge through leveling an alt job just to continue on with the MSQ, especially if they are a new, or any old really, player and only have 1 real job leveled up decently at the time and are now forced to level up a low level job to continue with the MSQ. Seems very off putting to players for very little satisfactional benefit.

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Again, if people want to main Blue Mage, let them do it but warn them beforehand that they'll need to level another job. I'd rather give people the ability to be free and to run wild than restrict in the way the currently are. There IS benefit to being allowed to play through the main quest as a Blue Mage, like seeing our character in their Magus Attire in cutscenes in real time and not the in, being able to use Blue Magic in storyline instanced battles, and roaming the overworld as the job of their dreams. If you won't get satisfaction from this, that doesn't mean that other players like me won't enjoy this. Also, this is FFXIV - most people level multiple jobs anyway so having to level an extra one isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of this game.

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Originally Posted by redcurrant18

Again, if people want to main Blue Mage, let them do it but warn them beforehand that they'll need to level another job. I'd rather give people the ability to be free and to run wild than restrict in the way the currently are. There IS benefit to being allowed to play through the main quest as a Blue Mage, like seeing our character in their Magus Attire in cutscenes in real time and not the in, being able to use Blue Magic in storyline instanced battles, and roaming the overworld as the job of their dreams. If you won't get satisfaction from this, that doesn't mean that other players like me won't enjoy this. Also, this is FFXIV - most people level multiple jobs anyway so having to level an extra one isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of this game.

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Warn them that they'll be barred from continuing the main story quest unless they go back and level up another job, potentially 30+ levels in the future after they hit the BLU MSQ Wall so as to continue with the story? Again, I see that as very off putting for players, especially new players with very little in the way of alt jobs leveled. I'm not saying I won't be satisfied. I'm saying I can reasonably see a great number of players being upset about the situation.

Yeah I don't know why they don't at least allow them access to story dungeons/trials. I know BLU's designation is that of "limited job" but it feels much too limited, in my opinion. I posted about this on another topic but I feel like people in this game really like to connect with the job they main. They like to take a job, play it and, in a sense, "own it".

How people connect with a job varies from person to person but I do feel like the MSQ forms the backbone of the game. I mean, there is so much that stems from it. I think that it should, at least, be accessible to people who want to call BLU their main. Now, I know there are people out there to whom this means very little. "If I can't raid, there's no point in maining it." or "if I can't do X or Y content, there's no point in maining it." and those are all valid stances to have. It's just that I see the MSQ as a sort of "basic right" that you oughta at least have access to if you really want to call it your main job. Personally, I would extend this freedom to dungeons, trials, and maybe normal mode raids. I judge these things to be inoffensive to those whose main concern is the bleeding edge of difficult content.

That said, I feel like this fundamentally goes against what seems to be a very deliberate decision to make BLU more of a side-content activity rather than a job unto itself. I think their idea is for us to perhaps not even see it as a job... which, understandably, clashes with people's desire to see it as such and perhaps even main it.

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Originally Posted by Hazama999

Yeah I don't know why they don't at least allow them access to story dungeons/trials. I know BLU's designation is that of "limited job" but it feels much too limited, in my opinion. I posted about this on another topic but I feel like people in this game really like to connect with the job they main. They like to take a job, play it and, in a sense, "own it".

How people connect with a job varies from person to person but I do feel like the MSQ forms the backbone of the game. I mean, there is so much that stems from it. I think that it should, at least, be accessible to people who want to call BLU their main. Now, I know there are people out there to whom this means very little. "If I can't raid, there's no point in maining it." or "if I can't do X or Y content, there's no point in maining it." and those are all valid stances to have. It's just that I see the MSQ as a sort of "basic right" that you oughta at least have access to if you really want to call it your main job. Personally, I would extend this freedom to dungeons, trials, and maybe normal mode raids. I judge these things to be inoffensive to those whose main concern is the bleeding edge of difficult content.

That said, I feel like this fundamentally goes against what seems to be a very deliberate decision to make BLU more of a side-content activity rather than a job unto itself. I think their idea is for us to perhaps not even see it as a job... which, understandably, clashes with people's desire to see it as such and perhaps even main it.

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So long as BLU is level capped lower that the others it will always be a disjointed mess with the MSQ, requiring players to go back and level another job in order to continue the MSQ once they hit the BLU level wall. That issue is just going to compound to a larger gap in levels as time goes on. How is it really "maining" when you play it initially from the 2.1 story and then have to stop playing it to continue on, only to repeat that again and again while also having to periodically level another "main" in order to see the story further? If playing a job through the MSQ is the backbone of the game, BLU is a horribly broken backbone in that regard.

So? If people want to do it just let them as long as they meet the level requirements for the quest. People who main multiple classes also struggle with this too, since for Stormblood I took the time to first level Red Mage to 60 for Ala Migho quests and then had to do the same for Samurai for quests in the east. That's just how I wanted to play through the main story. It's not your place to police how other people want to enjoy the main quest.

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Originally Posted by redcurrant18

So? If people want to do it just let them as long as they meet the level requirements for the quest. People who main multiple classes also struggle with this too, since for Stormblood I took the time to first level Red Mage to 60 for Ala Migho quests and then had to do the same for Samurai for quests in the east. That's just how I wanted to play through the main story. It's not your place to police how other people want to enjoy the main quest.

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I'm not policing anything....

My point still remains that it seems very off putting, daunting even, to let someone play through the mains story quest to 50 as a separate job, let them play BLU for 10 levels [When BLU gets bumped to 60 anyway, at present they won't even be able to continue much at all] and then require them have to go back and level another job just to continue with the MSQ for another 20 levels. I can legitimately see a great number of people being upset about that. That issue will continue to compound, requiring them to go back and level up even further each time. Any new player who wants to "main" BLU through the MSQ is going to have an increasingly huge hurdle just to continue playing the MSQ pass the point BLU's level caps out, something that any other job once unlocked doesn't have as they can simply continue playing through. You may not have an issue with that and that is fine, but it still is a very real issue.

Also just to point out, you personally made the choice to swap from RDM to SAM to continue with the story. A person playing BLU through the MSQ would have no choice. They must change to a different job in order to continue. The game would give them no other option. They would either have to park their BLU there [Story wise] and not play the MSQ any further till BLU's level is increased or go back and level another job to continue on.

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Originally Posted by Jybril

Wasn't Dark Knight a DPS in FFXI?
I also heard NIN was a Evasive tank.

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DRK was a DPS originally in FFXI, that is correct. DRK also had major accuracy issues, which is why you'd pile on the accuracy for things like Guillotine (a 4 hit weaponskill) + other equipment swaps.
NIN was SUPPOSED to be a DPS, but the community decided to turn it into a tank.
However, the devs put a cap on NIN after the nin hit 55, due to the mobs being double or triple hit adds. They also made boss type monsters able to go through their Utsusemi shadow cast spells, making them irrelevant tanks.
The only TRUE tank in FFXI was PLD. WAR and NIN were somewhat temporary till those time periods of 50-55+ and beyond.

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Originally Posted by Skos

The three main restrictions I really want them to lift are story, squadron command missions and roulettes in a full pre-made party.

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Squadron missions, I'd honestly want the most. If we CANNOT use them in duties, I'd at least like to go in with a NPC party. Unless the trust system is gonna be built with the job in mind, assuming changes are being made pre 5.0 to make ready for the possible design. It seems odd that the game will restrict them access to all content, except when you need to have a pre-made to go in and basically tackle the boss for a certain spell you can't solo.

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Originally Posted by Elkanah

Squadron missions, I'd honestly want the most. If we CANNOT use them in duties, I'd at least like to go in with a NPC party. Unless the trust system is gonna be built with the job in mind, assuming changes are being made pre 5.0 to make ready for the possible design. It seems odd that the game will restrict them access to all content, except when you need to have a pre-made to go in and basically tackle the boss for a certain spell you can't solo.

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I would guess SE's reasoning is because Squadron can level up and do level 60 content atm whereas BLU is stuck at 50. If so, I'd hope they'd open it up when the BLU level cap is increased, assuming the Squadron cap doesn't go up at the same time.

Well, the level cap is obviously one of the restrictions I'm referring to. If you wanted to do the story with it, they'd have to allow BLU to reach the very end of it, that is, be allowed to reach level 80.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

"Not like they completely dismiss" is not the same as "They will focus on party play". It means that the party play will be there, will get something here or there, but will not be the focus.

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I am sorry to say but 25 of blu's abilities are locked behind instanced content that needs a party so there will need to have some decent abilities to use in a group setting i think the devs put more effort to allow blu to not be completely unhinged(either good or bad) in a party settng this time around though giving them 3 kill themselves abilities sounds fun XD

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

I am sorry to say but 25 of blu's abilities are locked behind instanced content that needs a party so there will need to have some decent abilities to use in a group setting i think the devs put more effort to allow blu to not be completely unhinged(either good or bad) in a party settng this time around though giving them 3 kill themselves abilities sounds fun XD

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There's nothing to be sorry about there. I'm not against party with Blue Mage.

In fact, the opposite is true. I always considered this an experiment and kept saying that once it settles in, is tested and such, there could be skills selected for "fixed" runs (one of those skills schemes being fixed "duty finder" one) and Blue Mage could be allowed into all content provided they have all the skills, while nothing would change for premade parties, overworld etc.


Them supporting party play in any way does support that possibility, rather than deny it.

Just make it so that in order to qualify as a healer, DPS or tank BLU, you need all of the required skills for healer, DPS or tank. Have these things active, and you qualify for Duty Finder and Raids.

Is it so hard?

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Originally Posted by AscendantManes

Just make it so that in order to qualify as a healer, DPS or tank BLU, you need all of the required skills for healer, DPS or tank. Have these things active, and you qualify for Duty Finder and Raids.

Is it so hard?

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Giving BLU a full working kit for Tanking, Healing and DPSing that is balanced against the other Tanks, Healers and DPS, difficult? Yes, yes it is.

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Originally Posted by AscendantManes

Just make it so that in order to qualify as a healer, DPS or tank BLU, you need all of the required skills for healer, DPS or tank. Have these things active, and you qualify for Duty Finder and Raids.

Is it so hard?

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I think designing three (balanced) jobs at once would be an extreme and very new challenge lol.

Although I have a hard time believing that they couldn't do it for at least one role given a subset of the skills they have already / do plan on creating for Blue. Besides custom toolkit (which I believe is a very unique challenge, one that may feel impossible to solve in a balanced yet interesting choice manor), I think all the other issues present of Blue are solve-able. Like: "what if they don't have all the skills? People will be mad!" ..."it's not unreasonable to make sure they have them all first (ie, cant use duty finder w/o them), in fact most people already ask that the other jobs have this too.. seems to be non-issue".

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Originally Posted by AscendantManes

Just make it so that in order to qualify as a healer, DPS or tank BLU, you need all of the required skills for healer, DPS or tank. Have these things active, and you qualify for Duty Finder and Raids.

Is it so hard?

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It actually could amount a decent amount of work, but the thing is, it isn't necessary for Blue Mage to be able to queue as a tank or healer.

Traditionally, Blue Mage has been a DPS job with support utility. And that's exactly what we got. A DPS with support utility. Sure, Blue Mage may be able to handle the role of a tank or healer in casual content, but in content that is truly demanding? I have reviewed BLU's kit and to be frank, BLU's capability to keep up looks questionable.

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Originally Posted by Blueyes

It actually could amount a decent amount of work, but the thing is, it isn't necessary for Blue Mage to be able to queue as a tank or healer.

Traditionally, Blue Mage has been a DPS job with support utility. And that's exactly what we got. A DPS with support utility. Sure, Blue Mage may be able to handle the role of a tank or healer in casual content, but in content that is truly demanding? I have reviewed BLU's kit and to be frank, BLU's capability to keep up looks questionable.

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We have no idea if it is a dps or not. No one has played it yet.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

We have no idea if it is a dps or not. No one has played it yet.

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We can see from the datamine it is very clearly a support dps, its tanking has about as much functionalility as titan egi, and it has 2 healing skills one of which kills you, the other an aoe with high mana cost.

BLU isn't intended to be a replacement for a tank or healer, it's purely based around being a DPS (confirmed by the datamine) but with additional support utility to allow it to be more self sufficient; which is pretty much required for the content that has been specifically created for it.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

We have no idea if it is a dps or not. No one has played it yet.

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Its icon is red, it wears DPS's gear and have DPS role actions. It's DPS in everything that makes a DPS a DPS. I don't know why there are still people that claim it's not known whether it's a DPS. If it was in any way ambiguous for the system, he wouldn't have a red icon.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

There's nothing to be sorry about there. I'm not against party with Blue Mage.

In fact, the opposite is true. I always considered this an experiment and kept saying that once it settles in, is tested and such, there could be skills selected for "fixed" runs (one of those skills schemes being fixed "duty finder" one) and Blue Mage could be allowed into all content provided they have all the skills, while nothing would change for premade parties, overworld etc.


Them supporting party play in any way does support that possibility, rather than deny it.

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I certainly hope so in the future.

At the moment the 2 best solutions to allow blu to enter df would be
1.Complete certain Masked Carnivale challenges this requires getting to lv50 and having certain number of skills
2.Have a full hotbar of 24 skills this again would require lv 50

While both would require some time investment and have gone out of your way to get skills but 2. will not sort out if a player has certain kills where 1. does yet 2. would allow earlier access to df than 1. . In the end we have to hope the devs can find a solution either through our help or without to eventually allow df participation even if it can never be through current content as time goes on it will be harder for blu to get their max level abilities through pf alone

They did not design Blue to be a "job" in the first place. They already said Blue won't catch up current max level.

They won't invest time and effort to partially change the Duty finder so that it check if Blue has X amount of skills / that specific skill. It's been years that we have been asking to prevent people from queuing for a dungeon in base class instead of jobs for level 30+ dungeons and that is still not a thing. Because every minor change to the game's core is depicted as a mountain of work from the devs team.

I highly doubt they will go back on this to please anyone. If the rage is even greater, they will most likely just drop it and focus on something else.

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Originally Posted by Mansion

They did not design Blue to be a "job" in the first place. They already said Blue won't catch up current max level.

They won't invest time and effort to partially change the Duty finder so that it check if Blue has X amount of skills / that specific skill. It's been years that we have been asking to prevent people from queuing for a dungeon in base class instead of jobs for level 30+ dungeons and that is still not a thing. Because every minor change to the game's core is depicted as a mountain of work from the devs team.

I highly doubt they will go back on this to please anyone. If the rage is even greater, they will most likely just drop it and focus on something else.

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thing is there is an easy way to do it Currently you can't do Halatai HM till you do Halatai normal now change that stipulation to 'Must complete Masked Carnivale Challenge XXX' which requires basic blu skills that are needed for df groups it would be completely optional to those that do want to do it and you can ensure they have required skills unlike right now where we can have a gld in the Vault (i may need to vent that in that other thread) something alot of people would want to have been restricted from being allowed to enter sometimes restrictions are good sometimes they are awful Blu has both yet doesn't need them but i am patient if it takes awhile to sort out i don't mind waiting i will have as much fun as i can right now and try it out

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

change that stipulation to 'Must complete Masked Carnivale Challenge XXX' which requires basic blu skills that are needed for df groups

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But the skills are created and balanced for solo content. Not in regard to the amount of DPS required for X composition of team or Y dungeon. In the end, we could argue that all skills are designed in regard to "when you will need them in the Masked Carnival" and that's it.
For a regular use of Blue, you would need a re-balancing of every aspect of every spell in regard to every other DPS (if we kindly ignore the healy and tanky spells Blue seems to have), which is a lot of work. That's what they are actually doing for the other new jobs in 5.0, plus the other jobs in regard to these additions. So yeah, a lot of work that they could manage, but they just chose not to.

Now for the "easy" aspect of adding limits (or requirements) to the DF, well I don't know and I believe you don't really know either, based on how the DF works in pure code/programing/whatever computery thing, except if you work on FFXIV. But I think they want to avoid to change what does not need to be changed right now.
Because they seem to be making their own lives harder by keeping an old flawed code that limits most of their content up until this day. Correct me if I'm wrong on this, I'm not an expert in this area.

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Originally Posted by Mansion

But the skills are created and balanced for solo content.

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Then why do so many of them require a group to get the skills?

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Then why do so many of them require a group to get the skills?

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I agree it's not logic in itself. I can only guess they wanted to make some strict Blue party content, because when testing it they realised it was fun (that's what they said in the Live Letter I think) so they implemented it that way.
Don't get me wrong, I agree. But in the end, you'll be alone in the masked carnival.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

thing is there is an easy way to do it Currently you can't do Halatai HM till you do Halatai normal now change that stipulation to 'Must complete Masked Carnivale Challenge XXX'

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Which still wouldn't "fix" the issue of "You didn't chose the spells I wanted you to chose".

When a DPS-optimized BLU will get kicked because he didn't take White Wind that might have saved the day. Or he didn't take Flying Sardine and you expected him to Silence something, or every other situation where people will disagree on how you should "customize" your character.

Or how a BLU simply might not have a specific spell yet because it has a higher requirement, since BLU spells don't have any level, meaning that you could theoretically go into Sastasha with Eruption equipped.

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Originally Posted by Mansion

But the skills are created and balanced for solo content. Not in regard to the amount of DPS required for X composition of team or Y dungeon. In the end, we could argue that all skills are designed in regard to "when you will need them in the Masked Carnival" and that's it.
For a regular use of Blue, you would need a re-balancing of every aspect of every spell in regard to every other DPS (if we kindly ignore the healy and tanky spells Blue seems to have), which is a lot of work. That's what they are actually doing for the other new jobs in 5.0, plus the other jobs in regard to these additions. So yeah, a lot of work that they could manage, but they just chose not to.

Now for the "easy" aspect of adding limits (or requirements) to the DF, well I don't know and I believe you don't really know either, based on how the DF works in pure code/programing/whatever computery thing, except if you work on FFXIV. But I think they want to avoid to change what does not need to be changed right now.
Because they seem to be making their own lives harder by keeping an old flawed code that limits most of their content up until this day. Correct me if I'm wrong on this, I'm not an expert in this area.

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I would agree that they would be balanced around solo play more but currently only 6/7 out of 49 abilities would even be close to OP 3 of those have kill yourself mechanics and with 25 belonging to party duties i'd say the 1st interation of blu has been more designed towards party play than solo that may change in future we will see (give like 2 days we will see i would love for it to be OP as it would actually validate the developers reasoning but until we see numbers it is impossible to know).

Yes i have no knowledge on the ffxiv code think very few people can i do have some coding experience however and adding in a couple new if stipulation shouldn't be that hard to do but there might be unique troubles with ffxiv code i am unaware of

an example how it could be coded(This is most basic it can be so i doubt ffxiv would do it this way):

Under Duty Finder section of code:
Is Player a Blue Mage -> YES -> Has Player done XXX -> YES -> Goes through other duty finder restrictions/checks
Has Player done XXX -> NO -> Locks Duty finder out -> Loops back to 1st question
Is Player a Blue Mage -> NO -> Goes through other duty finder restrictions/checks

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Which still wouldn't "fix" the issue of "You didn't chose the spells I wanted you to chose".

When a DPS-optimized BLU will get kicked because he didn't take White Wind that might have saved the day. Or he didn't take Flying Sardine and you expected him to Silence something, or every other situation where people will disagree on how you should "customize" your character.

Or how a BLU simply might not have a specific spell yet because it has a higher requirement, since BLU spells don't have any level, meaning that you could theoretically go into Sastasha with Eruption equipped.

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I personally would look at it like the Logos actions/role actions(when 5 max) some are way more beneficial than others to have but not all are mandatory and some are fight dependent Blu abilities could work similarly and i would not have a go at a hlr who wouldn't take rescue that may have saved everyone so i wouldn't have a go at a blu that didn't have white wind if it wasn't part of the mandatory requirement i will always look at the minimum requirements for said duty and plan accordingly to the players meeting that. i will offer advice if i can give it to said players for anything would i like certain requirements like job stones added absolutely can i come across classes in qarn onwards definitely and i would tell them to go get it they refuse bl once gone be the same with a blu's abilities i would offer where to get the better ones they refuse that's on them and i would work with this basic blu that ik they have.
The big problem i cannot see on how to fix properly would be is it worthwhile to change every blu ability to fit in a party and at the moment no it is not i believe there needs to be a consistant high enough demand after release to be worthwhile for such a change. for the longevity of blu it will need to enter df eventually as i highly doubt in 3 months new blus are going to get many of their pfs filled up for runs of Cutter's Cry/Binding coil etc roulettes do give a bit more presence to older content and blu will definitely benefit from this more

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

I personally would look at it like the Logos actions/role actions(when 5 max) some are way more beneficial than others to have but not all are mandatory

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I think Logos setup will be dealt with very diferently come the public dungeon in Hydatos. If you wipe tere, you'll have to do the whole entering process from the very beginning, so I'm sure people will be far more edgy about screwing things because you didn't pick the right actions. Which would probably be what woud happen if BLU were "allowed" in meaningful content.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

i highly doubt in 3 months new blus are going to get many of their pfs filled up for runs of Cutter's Cry/Binding coil etc roulettes do give a bit more presence to older content and blu will definitely benefit from this more

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Just party with a level 70 unsynced and you'll have every skill you need from any level 50 instance.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Just party with a level 70 unsynced and you'll have every skill you need from any level 50 instance.

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True you can do that probably why masked carnivale offers tomestones to allow blus to still get them i want blus to eventually be allowed df interaction i know there is no perfect solution to the problem of getting it i will wait and see if devs will see if it is worthwhile to do so or not i just think allowing blu into df will help bolster up some old content queues for new players

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

I would agree that they would be balanced around solo play more but currently only 6/7 out of 49 abilities would even be close to OP 3 of those have kill yourself mechanics and with 25 belonging to party duties i'd say the 1st interation of blu has been more designed towards party play than solo that may change in future we will see (give like 2 days we will see i would love for it to be OP as it would actually validate the developers reasoning but until we see numbers it is impossible to know).

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Not talking about being OP actually, but more about its system that relies on elemental strengths and weaknesses and enemy types. That's something that does not exist outside of niche content (Eureka to some extent, and Masked Carnivale). It can make Blue OP in Aurum Vale by spamming fire spells on plant enemies, but it will make Blue hit like a wet noodle on a non aspected boss, which is 100% of FFXIV endgame content. The same applies on Crowd Content abilities. You can Bind a pack of mob, but you can't silence Hello World by throwing a fish on Final Omega.