Cash shop confirmed

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10-21-2014, 05:19 PM
RaspberryRipple

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwill

I like you.

Let me open with this: Square Enix is a public company. Their whole financial records are online for anyone who has the internet and 5 minutes of times. Go see how well their past business model was for them then come talk about greed.

The business model since 2.0 has been a big success without a cash shop. If you don't believe me then go read the financial records which I know you know are publicly available.
10-21-2014, 05:21 PM
IveraIvalice

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaret

Aww, okay, where is the point i missed?

I'm not gonna rewrite the same thing 8 times. Just read and don't simplify/summarize/reduce us to 5 year olds

Quote:

Originally Posted by mekia

Maybe learn to understand and not just close yourself up and huddle up in a corner.

Lol your telling me that? Did you even read the post I commented on? If you think that's understanding more then I do then maybe you should reread some things.
10-21-2014, 05:25 PM
Alexander_Dragonfang

This is incredible.

People is against having mounts added to the game AND the cash shop. No. Or everything is earned after 3 months of losing time or everything has to be payed cause is totally ok to pay for something you already paid.

I swear. This is the reason why Electronic Arts is still a thing. And this industry doesnt care about its customers.
10-21-2014, 05:26 PM
Amaret

Quote:

Originally Posted by IveraIvalice

I'm not gonna rewrite the same thing 8 times. Just read and don't simplify/summarize/reduce us to 5 year olds.

So it seems like i understand the quintessence of the problem, i just summarized it as you guys are 5 year old? Should i write an essay about it?
10-21-2014, 05:28 PM
mekia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

This is incredible.

People is against having mounts added to the game AND the cash shop. No. Or everything is earned after 3 months of losing time or everything has to be payed cause is totally ok to pay for something you already paid.

I swear. This is the reason why Electronic Arts is still a thing. And this industry doesnt care about its customers.

wtf are you saying xD
10-21-2014, 05:29 PM
mekia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaret

So it seems like i understand the quintessence of the problem, i just summarized it as you guys are 5 year old? Should i write an essay about it?

God damn you! have to agree again >.>.
10-21-2014, 05:31 PM
Alexander_Dragonfang

Quote:

Originally Posted by mekia

wtf are you saying xD

For the last 4 pages, in a nutshell, this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

Point in case. Slepnir mount.

Right now:
Cash shop item exclusive, price to determine. Not in game content tho we are paying for it, behind a paywall.

How should be:
Slepnir Mount is added as a reward to X content.
3 months later, it becomes a cash shop alternative.

So content is designed and build for the game, not the cash shop.

So... Whats the problem with having items added to the game and then to the cash shop? thus adding items for everyone, creating a cash shop which will sell items and not forcing a paywall?
10-21-2014, 05:34 PM
tocsin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

So... Whats the problem with having items added to the game and then to the cash shop? thus adding items for everyone, creating a cash shop which will sell items and not forcing a paywall?

There is zero issue with this. Its the best of both worlds, and SE SHOULD implement it that way. They wont, because they never seem to get things perfectly, but they SHOULD.

im on your side here. I'm only defending the concept of a cash shop.

In other news, 4 pages? wow, I set my page settings for max posts per page, those default pages add up a lot faster than I expected! how many pages are we up to? max settings is approaching 24.
10-21-2014, 05:35 PM
IveraIvalice

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaret

So it seems like i understand the quintessence of the problem, i just summarized it as you guys are 5 year old? Should i write an essay about it?

Everything you mentioned has been debated about and is not as you mention it. Repeating what I've said before. Buying a CD and getting a minion as a bonus with it is not the same thing as buying a mount or minion in a game. Your buying a physical object and you get a bonus in game item.
And some are concerned about what this will lead to in the future but most are not concerned about anything other then what it is right now. Not "oh no! it may or may not become pay to win and then it will become an issue". It's an issue right now because of many reasons that have been said multiple times.
We pay a monthly subscription for a game with all of it's content. Obviously that's not the same thing as claiming the devs lives are ours
10-21-2014, 05:36 PM
mekia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

For the last 4 pages, in a nutshell, this:

So... Whats the problem with having items added to the game and then to the cash shop? thus adding items for everyone, creating a cash shop which will sell items and not forcing a paywall?

And still all i hear is "I don't have money to spend on something cool QQ". You give no reason whatsoever why it is such a company destroying idea (which you guys make it out to be). Just leave it seriously, people will buy it because they like the mount/heads/whatever and because some just want to support the game in more ways than normal. If you don't understand that than it is not our problem. Just stop trying to start something which you can't follow up with comments that make any sense at all.
And EA is still in business because they publish good game. Don't like what they do? Guess what..... don't buy it :O! OMG!
10-21-2014, 05:38 PM
mekia

Quote:

Originally Posted by IveraIvalice

Everything you mentioned has been debated about and is not as you mention it. Repeating what I've said before. Buying a CD and getting a minion as a bonus with it is not the same thing as buying a mount or minion in a game. Your buying a physical object and you get a bonus in game item.
And some are concerned about what this will lead to in the future but most are not concerned about anything other then what it is right now. Not "oh no! it may or may not become pay to win and then it will become an issue". It's an issue right now because of many reasons that have been said multiple times.
We pay a monthly subscription for a game with all of it's content. Obviously that's not the same thing as claiming the devs lives are ours

So if i buy a Odin Plush and it comes with the Mount is that ok? Are you serious? ..... no words lol
10-21-2014, 05:40 PM
Alexander_Dragonfang

Quote:

Originally Posted by tocsin

There is zero issue with this. Its the best of both worlds, and SE SHOULD implement it that way. They wont, because they never seem to get things perfectly, but they SHOULD.

im on your side here. I'm only defending the concept of a cash shop.

Im also for a cash shop, but i just dont want SE to start creating content exclusively for it and locking players behind a paywall.

Add a new mount to a trial, let a few months pass (you know, to a few players get it the "hard way") then put it up on the cash shop. That simple. Patient players will farm, players who cant invest that much time, will pay. The item is still there for everyone and not behind a paywall. The content is still created for the game and not the cash shop. We as players wins, SE as a company wins, the game as a game wins, i will not say everybody wins, there is no way to make everyone happy, but come on...
10-21-2014, 05:41 PM
IveraIvalice

Quote:

Originally Posted by mekia

So if i buy a Odin Plush and it comes with the Mount is that ok? Are you serious? ..... no words lol

Lol ok. I mean I don't need to give you a reason to keep your money but I like to pay once for something instead of twice for 1 thing.
10-21-2014, 05:41 PM
tocsin

Quote:

Originally Posted by IveraIvalice

We pay a monthly subscription for a game with all of it's content.

Why do I keep hearing this? someone please source me the copy of the T&C that they have that says that the subscription is anything other than a license renewal for access to 2.0 servers? at least according to the official T&C, your sub does not cover any additional content, not even bug patches past 2.0. SE is very customer friendly to allow us free access to 2.1 thru 2.4, without making us pay an additional fee, but they don't HAVE to.

Looking for a source.

my source, btw:

4. BILLING PROCEDURES AND RECURRING TRANSACTIONS

4.1 FINAL FANTASY XIV Subscription Fees. In order to access SQUARE ENIX's servers to play the Game, you must agree to a recurring subscription ("Subscription") with a minimum subscription term of 30 days, and pay a recurring subscription fee ("FFXIV Subscription Fee"). Square Enix may offer different subscription plans in its sole discretion. Further, Square Enix may offer you the chance to purchase additional features for your FFXIV Service Account, which we call "Add-ons" or "Options."
10-21-2014, 05:43 PM
Alexander_Dragonfang

Quote:

Originally Posted by mekia

And still all i hear is "I don't have money to spend on something cool QQ".

Ok, so officially, we now know there is people who wants to become whales on this game just to brag of how much money they have to waste. LOL.
10-21-2014, 05:43 PM
mekia

Quote:

Originally Posted by IveraIvalice

Lol ok. I mean I don't need to give you a reason to keep your money but I like to pay once for something instead of twice for 1 thing.

So a sub to play a game is the same than pay ONCE for a mount i use in the game. hrm... weird
10-21-2014, 05:44 PM
mekia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

Ok, so officially, we now know there is people who wants to become whales on this game just to brag of how much money they have to waste. LOL.

And again you make no sense whatsoever. Do you just smash your head on the keyboard and see what comes up o.O.
10-21-2014, 05:46 PM
SongJoohee

Would those who are in favour of the cash shop be okay if Square Enix removed the primal mounts from the current Extreme primals on the 28th and put them in the Cash Shop along side Slepnir?

Because that's what has happened with Slepnir pretty much, just the trial where he was due to be dropped isn't out yet and he got thrown into the Cash Shop instead.
10-21-2014, 05:46 PM
Amaret

Some ppl should read for what they realy pay the 12 bucks...

http://support.eu.square-enix.com/ru...la=2&tag=users

@SongJoohee... Who says that odin wont have another rare vanity item?
10-21-2014, 05:47 PM
Alexander_Dragonfang

Quote:

Originally Posted by SongJoohee

Would those who are in favour of the cash shop be okay if Square Enix removed the primal mounts from the current Extreme primals on the 28th and put them in the Cash Shop along side Slepnir?

Because that's what has happened with Slepnir pretty much, just the trial where he was due to be dropped isn't out yet and he got thrown into the Cash Shop instead.

On this thread, i have counted like 15 people who would be perfect with that. Sad isnt it?
10-21-2014, 05:50 PM
Alexander_Dragonfang

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaret

@SongJoohee... Who says that odin wont have another rare vanity item?

We know for sure is not going to be the slepnir mount. Thats enough.
10-21-2014, 05:51 PM
SongJoohee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

On this thread, i have counted like 15 people who would be perfect with that. Sad isnt it?

I find it really really bizarre. I can understand them being okay with it, but some people here even go as far to say the Cash Shop will be a positive addition to the game.
10-21-2014, 05:51 PM
mekia

Quote:

Originally Posted by SongJoohee

Would those who are in favour of the cash shop be okay if Square Enix removed the primal mounts from the current Extreme primals on the 28th and put them in the Cash Shop along side Slepnir?

Because that's what has happened with Slepnir pretty much, just the trial where he was due to be dropped isn't out yet and he got thrown into the Cash Shop instead.

If they removed the battles sure, Odin battle is not out yet so how do you know it was meant to be a reward from Odin primal? Odin Primal battle probably has another Unicorn pony like alll the other ones. And tbh the Sleipnir in the cash shop is missing 2 legsxD
10-21-2014, 05:53 PM
IveraIvalice

Quote:

Originally Posted by tocsin

Why do I keep hearing this? someone please source me the copy of the T&C that they have that says that the subscription is anything other than a license renewal for access to 2.0 servers? at least according to the official T&C, your sub does not cover any additional content, not even bug patches past 2.0. SE is very customer friendly to allow us free access to 2.1 thru 2.4, without making us pay an additional fee, but they don't HAVE to.

Looking for a source.

It is not written in there that we are entitled to it by law but because that's how it has been for 4 years. Obviously they can change it because they are right now but that doesn't mean it's right.
By your logic you could be playing with cubes with checkerboard textures and you would be happy buying those "extra features" because all you really pay for every month is access to the servers. So everything that makes up the entirety of the game is not included in your subscription fee

Quote:

Originally Posted by mekia

So a sub to play a game is the same than pay ONCE for a mount i use in the game. hrm... weird

How is this hard to understand? For the entire life of the game your 1 (count them) subscription fee every month gave you all mounts/minions/furnishing/fluff that was not a bonus item for something else.
Now your 1 recurring payment does not give you access to all those items. So you pay more for something you used to have for 1 recurring payment. That's 2 payments. That's a payment every month AND an additional fee for more items

Edit: maximum posts for the day.
Right your entitled to nothing then. Paying for access to a server that can lead to nothing is ok with you guys. Cool
Have fun bending over
10-21-2014, 05:53 PM
tocsin

Just a small thought here, but I just went over the live letter, and the interview where this was announced, and neither of them said that slepneir was going to be EXCLUSIVE to the cash shop, just that it was going to be in the cash shop. does anyone also have that source?
10-21-2014, 05:54 PM
Alexander_Dragonfang

Quote:

Originally Posted by SongJoohee

I find it really really bizarre. I can understand them being okay with it, but some people here even go as far to say the Cash Shop will be a positive addition to the game.

I also think a cash shop will do right, and will serve for those who want to get something ALREADY in game in a faster way and also contribute a bit more to the company, im totally ok with that. The problem is when the item is EXCLUSIVE of the cash shop.
10-21-2014, 05:54 PM
mekia

Quote:

Originally Posted by SongJoohee

I find it really really bizarre. I can understand them being okay with it, but some people here even go as far to say the Cash Shop will be a positive addition to the game.

You pay extra to get extra stuff, i think it is a positive thing for players and the company itself. Said the same about WoW cash shop. If you want extra mounts you pay extra money big deal xD
10-21-2014, 05:54 PM
tocsin

Quote:

Originally Posted by IveraIvalice

It is not written in there that we are entitled to it by law but because that's how it has been for 4 years. Obviously they can change it because they are right now but that doesn't mean it's right.
By your logic you could be playing with cubes with checkerboard textures and you would be happy buying those "extra features" because all you really pay for every month is access to the servers. So everything that makes up the entirety of the game is not included in your subscription fee

Heh, minecraft. "playing with cubes with checkerboard textures "

Worst thing is, I bet if minecraft had an official server, they would charge a sub for it.
10-21-2014, 06:00 PM
mekia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

I also think a cash shop will do right, and will serve for those who want to get something ALREADY in game in a faster way and also contribute a bit more to the company, im totally ok with that. The problem is when the item is EXCLUSIVE of the cash shop.

Item's in the cash shop should be exclusive. Or older items you can't get right now and don't want to wait a whole year for an event to start. If you put Mounts in the cash shop which can be farmed or have a very low drop rate you will anger A LOT of people who farmed those mounts.

"Hey got the 0.01% mount from xxxx NM! YAY"
"yeah bought the thing for 20$ yay?"

People want exclusive items only they have. Low drop rate/hard battles whatever but people want that stuff. And if you give them a way to pay for it with real money it will devalue the whole item. Keep items in the cash shop exclusive or old stuff.
10-21-2014, 06:02 PM
Amaret

Quote:

Originally Posted by IveraIvalice

How is this hard to understand? For the entire life of the game your 1 (count them) subscription fee every month gave you all mounts/minions/furnishing/fluff that was not a bonus item for something else.
Now your 1 recurring payment does not give you access to all those items. So you pay more for something you used to have for 1 recurring payment. That's 2 payments. That's a payment every month AND an additional fee for more items

No, learn2read the User Agreement you accepted.
10-21-2014, 06:05 PM
tocsin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaret

No, learn2read the User Agreement you accepted.

Thank you. Its high time we squash this misguided subterfuge.

Lets get the real facts out. Onward, and upvoted!

edit: Also like the edit to wording! I want to start linking that!
10-21-2014, 06:08 PM
mekia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaret

No, learn2read the User Agreement you accepted.

I like how you changed it :p lol
10-21-2014, 06:14 PM
Dwill

Quote:

Originally Posted by IveraIvalice

Because it's not free stuff. We already pay for it with a monthly subscription. It's not getting in a fit from someone charging me for their development time. It's getting in a fit for charging me twice. The answer to your question is that even if a person can't farm due to time or unlucky drop rates, it is there for you to obtain. In this way there is no option, there is only one way and it requires more of my hard earned money.

I'm a working man too like most and probly won't ever see those primal mounts but at least I know they are possible to get. I'm not willing to pay twice for something that I used to get for one payment every month. It's not a simple matter of "if you don't like it don't use it" because if I don't use it that's one thing I will never see. And so they simply took away something from me and everyone else that we used to have before
The difference is how much the consumer is paying to get the same thing
There a difference between paying more for convenience and not having something unless you pay more

Like it's been stated, your sub doesn't entitle you to all the content they will create in the future. That's not a hard concept to grab.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaspberryRipple

The business model since 2.0 has been a big success without a cash shop. If you don't believe me then go read the financial records which I know you know are publicly available.

Oh I read them just fine though I wonder, did you even read them? Or did you omit to read the part where their net assets had increased by 5%, with their total liabilities increasing more than their total assets. This game didn't make them have an unlimited cash flow like people seem to believe and considering they had a massive drop in their investing activities, they need the money to invest in other products.

Actually read the reports, it clearly states that Square Enix is on a (good)recovery mode but they are far from being able to just refuse an easy source of revenue (cash shop) because a few people don't like them.
10-21-2014, 06:15 PM
Razzle

Basically most of the people with the "It's only vanity so the cash shop is fine" argument are basically saying "I won't have to buy anything because it won't have anything I want, so the cash shop is fine, and I don't care that the people who do want these stuff have to pay extra after paying a sub". Sounds pretty selfish if you ask me. Some people rather have a +stat item on cash shop and the mount obtainable in game, because they don't care for the +stat and therfore won't be buying it.

Both kind of players should pay the same amount of sub to enjoy the game. No one is better than the other.
10-21-2014, 06:15 PM
coldreactive

World of Warcraft "Double Dips."

Guild Wars 2 has a cash shop, but that's buy to play :V

Quote:

Originally Posted by tocsin

Heh, minecraft. "playing with cubes with checkerboard textures "

Worst thing is, I bet if minecraft had an official server, they would charge a sub for it.

Minecraft Realms.
10-21-2014, 06:19 PM
Rieze_Xeero

What I would not want is for example exclusive items for FF14 Merchandise released in the "cash shop" like let say bahamut minion... 50/50 about it. Happy everyone can get it but how about the guys that bought the soundtrack. Well the soundtrack is worth it but, hey... on the brighter side, I can get minions that I was not able to get before. I hate what they did in the moggle stuff toy, it should not have a minion, now minion collectors are forced to buy the stuff toy even if they don't want to.. I wish FF14 is like the old days not too much cash shop, you just pay sub and EARN every item in game. But I still love the game = )
10-21-2014, 06:30 PM
DeceptionsWrath

Quote:

Originally Posted by mekia

You pay extra to get extra stuff, i think it is a positive thing for players and the company itself. Said the same about WoW cash shop. If you want extra mounts you pay extra money big deal xD

How is there "extra stuff"? Are they not funded with our subs? And how is it positive for players? 25 million a month isn't enough money?
10-21-2014, 06:32 PM
mekia

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeceptionsWrath

How is there "extra stuff"? Are they not funded with our subs? And how is it positive for players? 25 million a month isn't enough money?

Just go back one page and it's answered there :).
10-21-2014, 06:34 PM
NozomiKei

Quote:

Originally Posted by tocsin

why not? allied seals aren't going to help you win. the most allied seals are going to do for you is give you what every fresh 50 gets within 2 hours anyways, an i90 set. if someone really wants to pay $20 for two hours worth of in game work, be my guest.

as long as you lock the highest levels of gear out of cash shop availability, it is merely another avenue of easy casual access to items. its not pay to win, its pay for convenience.

I'm reading through every page of this thread and couldn't help myself; I had to respond to this..... person...before I went on.

Allied seals can help you win by getting you sands and oils and alexandrites. I have all i110 stuff because I unweathered a crap ton of things with sands and oils from seals. I'm getting the large majority of my alexandrites from hunts -> i110 weapon. I put in a lot of time and energy on hunts to get these seals and buy seal exclusive things like my precious loincloth, my adorable succubus minion and the housing items I sold to make millions when seals were still new.

Also, the things I enjoy about this game are dressing my Elezen up and collecting pretty extras like mounts/minions (probably left over from a childhood filled with Pokemon XD), so them selling vanity items and making them exclusive to the cash shop is affecting my gaming negatively. I will be resisting buying anything from the cash shop no matter how much I may want it because I believe it is a massively bad decision and I don't want to support the corrupting and downfall of FFXIV. I've seen this trend enough to know where it's going and for those of you saying that we don't even know if it will get any worse: They have already proven that they will only get worse.
fantasia
v
retainers
v
Old seasonal "vanity" items
v
New exclusive "vanity" items
10-21-2014, 06:37 PM
tocsin

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeceptionsWrath

How is there "extra stuff"? Are they not funded with our subs? And how is it positive for players? 25 million a month isn't enough money?

For one, how do you get 25 million a month? we have 2 million created accounts. according to ffxivsoul, factoring in inactives, there are maybe 500k active players, and accounting for alts, maybe 300k active subs.

second, your sub does not cover any extras. Reference T&C

Quote:

Originally Posted by NozomiKei

I'm reading through every page of this thread and couldn't help myself; I had to respond to this..... person...before I went on.

Yeah, That was my bad. I hadn't factored in sands and oils. They still require soldiery, but removing half that requirement isn't going to help.

in 2.4, though, i110 gear is likely going to be like i90 is now, a baseline.

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