What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Whether the Golbez arc goes anywhere in the future, we can't really say yet.

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we will go to the void one day this was an opening arc. SE likes to gives backstory super early before going into the expansion that goes into the story. they have done it before with the warriors of darkness.

Im glad Golbez arc ended and hope we can finally continue with a real adventure. Also, I'm not really a fan of them adding tidbits from other Final Fantasy titles to the MSQ. Sidequests, sure no biggie.
But FFXIV should still focus on it's own thing.

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

Im glad Golbez arc ended and hope we can finally continue with a real adventure. Also, I'm not really a fan of them adding tidbits from other Final Fantasy titles to the MSQ. Sidequests, sure no biggie.
But FFXIV should still focus on it's own thing.

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Sigh not this again. Say hello to once again 90% of the entirety of this game.

Its ok to say you didnt care for the FFIV references but dont go around acting like FFXIV had any originality in its story and design. Its written and created to be a FF series theme park. Its time to open your eyes to the truth buddy

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Sigh not this again. Say hello to once again 90% of the entirety of this game.

Its ok to say you didnt care for the FFIV references but dont go around acting like FFXIV had any originality in its story and design. Its written and created to be a FF series theme park. Its time to open your eyes to the truth buddy

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Can you tell me which parts of the MSQ are basically retellings of other FF games?

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Originally Posted by KenZentra

Can you tell me which parts of the MSQ are basically retellings of other FF games?

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Patch 6.1-6.5 is pretty much a retelling of ff4 and there is lots of other final fantasy references throughout the main story. I don't know why people keep denying all the references and how certain parts of the story play out exactly like the older ff games.

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Originally Posted by Nebelheim

...how certain parts of the story play out exactly like the older ff games.

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Like what? I think we all know 6.1-6.5 is a retelling. What else is a retelling in MSQ?

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Originally Posted by KenZentra

Like what? I think we all know 6.1-6.5 is a retelling. What else is a retelling in MSQ?

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If people have to point out every reference/retelling it seems the people that has to be told of every retelling/reference didn't pay much attention to the story. The whole integration of crystal tower in the story was a big reference to ff3. The whole dynamis thing is retelling/retooling something from ff11. There are plenty more retelling/retooling of various other final fantasy lore/references.

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Originally Posted by Nebelheim

If people have to point out every reference/retelling it seems the people that has to be told of every retelling/reference didn't pay much attention to the story. The whole integration of crystal tower in the story was a big reference to ff3. The whole dynamis thing is retelling/retooling something from ff11. There are plenty more retelling/retooling of various other final fantasy lore/references.

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A retelling and a reference to something are not the same thing. Otherwise we are going to have to call the first boss of Keeper of the Lake a retelling of the side-scrolling shoot-'em up, Einhander.

Crystal Tower, yeah thats kinda true, it still sits in my head as non-MSQ cause it wasnt when I did it and I think you could argue its just putting the final dungeon of FF3 into FFXIV since I don't think there is actually that much story in FF3 when you are in the CT... Its more like clear the dungeon, kill the boss, beat the game at that point.
Using the same name as something else from another game is something every FF game does, so I don't think that really matters when talking about retelling. Like in FF11, there is a dude named Gilgamesh, but he isn't the dimension hopping Gilgamesh everyone knows.

As for dynamis specifically, I never played FF11, but all I can find about it is that it is a place (specifically a parallel dream-world to the main world) not a type of energy or whatever.

Either way, my point in asking about retellings is that the story for these past few patches sucks because it is a retelling of FFIV. Its no surprise either that the story of Crystal Tower in ARR isn't that great either, and the fact is showed up later for ShB is just cause it was convenient and wasnt some planned idea all the way back from ARR. References, yeah they are everywhere and I prefer original ideas rather than throwbacks.

That being said, until someone shows me, there are not that many (if not only 2) retellings of other FF games. (Which btw doesnt mean I think the story is some award winning thing, I just think its okay.)

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Originally Posted by Banriikku

Ahh, thats nice but you dont care for the question?

Its true and everybody is entiteld to their opinion but its besides the point of the argument and is an answer to something what was NOT asked or discussed.
As if i asked about a soccer match and youre answer is i like soccer.. yeah fine but my question ? I like it and i will not aopologize!!!!!
In a university you would get a zero aka a fail for this, at work you would get scolded or worse fired.

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I apologize, you seem to be under the impression that I'm interested in debating with you about your criticisms of the story. I'm not. You're entitled to your opinion, just as I am entitled to mine. And I told you what my opinion was. That's really it. At the end of the day, this is entertainment and the only question that interests me is whether or not I enjoyed it. I did, therefore it's a good product. End of story. Lali-ho!

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Originally Posted by Tahbitha

I apologize, you seem to be under the impression that I'm interested in debating with you about your criticisms of the story. I'm not. You're entitled to your opinion, just as I am entitled to mine. And I told you what my opinion was. That's really it. At the end of the day, this is entertainment and the only question that interests me is whether or not I enjoyed it. I did, therefore it's a good product. End of story. Lali-ho!

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You're on a discussion board trying to nix discussion after inflaming discussion lol. Living up to that server name.

Anyway, you do know it's entirely possible to enjoy something wholeheartedly, but still see where it is flawed? Like I love The 7th Saga, but it honestly:

Has pretty lackluster music without a lot of variety.
Was tuned in the wrong way by its localization team, making it harder than its Japanese version, Elnard.
Has a broken stat increase exploit for one character that makes 6 hour speed runs possible. Eww.
Has middling replay value mostly due to its character selection.
Has several points of no return that can soft lock your saved file

In spite of all that, I love The 7th Saga. You'd probably see it in my top 10 or top 20 games. But you probably won't see it in most folks top games. It's just not as good as other things.

You can enjoy and love Endwalker all you want, but it won't make it a good story by that "virtue."

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Originally Posted by KenZentra

A retelling and a reference to something are not the same thing. Otherwise we are going to have to call the first boss of Keeper of the Lake a retelling of the side-scrolling shoot-'em up, Einhander.

Crystal Tower, yeah thats kinda true, it still sits in my head as non-MSQ cause it wasnt when I did it and I think you could argue its just putting the final dungeon of FF3 into FFXIV since I don't think there is actually that much story in FF3 when you are in the CT... Its more like clear the dungeon, kill the boss, beat the game at that point.
Using the same name as something else from another game is something every FF game does, so I don't think that really matters when talking about retelling. Like in FF11, there is a dude named Gilgamesh, but he isn't the dimension hopping Gilgamesh everyone knows.

As for dynamis specifically, I never played FF11, but all I can find about it is that it is a place (specifically a parallel dream-world to the main world) not a type of energy or whatever.

Either way, my point in asking about retellings is that the story for these past few patches sucks because it is a retelling of FFIV. Its no surprise either that the story of Crystal Tower in ARR isn't that great either, and the fact is showed up later for ShB is just cause it was convenient and wasnt some planned idea all the way back from ARR. References, yeah they are everywhere and I prefer original ideas rather than throwbacks.

That being said, until someone shows me, there are not that many (if not only 2) retellings of other FF games. (Which btw doesnt mean I think the story is some award winning thing, I just think its okay.)

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There are more then the 2 i mentioned i only mentioned 2 semi recent incidents of ripping aspects of other ff games to retool for ff14. The entire ivalice raids and four lords are other examples of direct retellings of ff11 and ff12/tactics to make those games lore fit into ff14 even if those are side content. Not to mention gulool ja ja the mamool ja in dawntrails trailer is a direct rip/references to a npc with the same name on ff11. And countless monsters ripped from ff6,11,12 and 13. Just because they change the lore from things they rip from other ff games doesn't mean they don't borrow a lot from the previous games that people seem to deny the devs of doing.

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Originally Posted by Nebelheim

There are more then the 2 i mentioned i only mentioned 2 semi recent incidents of ripping aspects of other ff games to retool for ff14. The entire ivalice raids and four lords are other examples of direct retellings of ff11 and ff12/tactics to make those games lore fit into ff14 even if those are side content. Not to mention gulool ja ja the mamool ja in dawntrails trailer is a direct rip/references to a npc with the same name on ff11. And countless monsters ripped from ff6,11,12 and 13. Just because they change the lore from things they rip from other ff games doesn't mean they don't borrow a lot from the previous games that people seem to deny the devs of doing.

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We are talking about MSQ, not side quests/stories/content. About Gulool Ja Ja, we already have mamool ja and a two-headed mamool ja in Wanderer's Palace (Hard), its really not a big deal that they use a name of all things again. Should we start complaining about that they use morbols from FF2, Goblins from FF1, so on and so forth? Every FF uses monsters, and names from previous games, thats not something unique to FFXIV.

The reason the current patch's story is so bad, is because it really is a retelling. The moment Golbez was shown armor and all, you knew it was going to go. The Four Fiends, Shadow Dragon, maybe even Zeromus, just from seeing him. More importantly, that he would be redeemed.

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Originally Posted by KenZentra

We are talking about MSQ, not side quests/stories/content. About Gulool Ja Ja, we already have mamool ja and a two-headed mamool ja in Wanderer's Palace (Hard), its really not a big deal that they use a name of all things again. Should we start complaining about that they use morbols from FF2, Goblins from FF1, so on and so forth? Every FF uses monsters, and names from previous games, thats not something unique to FFXIV.

The reason the current patch's story is so bad, is because it really is a retelling. The moment Golbez was shown armor and all, you knew it was going to go. The Four Fiends, Shadow Dragon, maybe even Zeromus, just from seeing him. More importantly, that he would be redeemed.

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Yeah I remember that classic FFIV scene where Tellah managed to talk through to Golbez rather than him being mind controlled by Zeromus and then getting killed for it.

Or who could ever forget that 2nd half arc in FFIV, where Cecil was BFFs with Golbez the whole time and he was actually also a knight of Baron that tried to save their home from invading crystal juiced warriors.

Ahh.. good times.

The only predictable thing was us fighting the Four Fiends and that Golbez was a good guy. Everything else was fair game to be reimagined or altered to fit into FFXIV's world which was the entire point of them making these callbacks just like how theyve done it with the rest of the game.

Games been unoriginal from the start. Quit pretending that most of the arcs were all completely brand new with no use heavy use of old FF callbacks.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Quit pretending that most of the arcs were all completely brand new with no use heavy use of old FF callbacks.

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Like what from the MSQ?

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Originally Posted by KenZentra

Like what from the MSQ?

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Pirates in Sastasha = Pirates in Pravoka from FF1 we just don't get a ship out of it. FF1 callback achieved!

Tam Tara Deepcroft = Marsh Cave equivalent (final boss is even a Soulflayer), helping elves in the forest... FF1 callback achieved!

Ifrit through Shiva = Ye Olde Eidolon fight callbacks. FFV callback achieved! (and many such cases through other entries as well)

Garuda exists = FF3 callback achieved!

Crystal Tower, however retroactively added to the MSQ is still the MSQ, FF3 callback achieved!

The OG races before Au Ra, Hrothgar, and Viera = races lifted directly from XI. FFXI callback achieved!

Story specifics wise in the long haul: The Ascians are analogous to the Zilart from FFXI in the overarching brush strokes and plot direction. A goddess split The Crystal so that she and Promathia could give birth to mortalkind, so that Promathia could achieve his own death. The Zilart were once godlike and lived in paradise, and the mothercrystals granted their prince a vision, which he shared telepathically with all other Zilart, excluding their fellow Kuluu who lost that ability but were still people. If they achieved paradise, it would destroy the now imperfect Vana'diel, so the Kuluu rebelled and fought them, irradiating the planet with a magical crystal line meltdown. The Kuluu were mutated into Tonberries, and the Zilart who survived did so in stasis slumber for 10000 years, re-emerging by the events of the game to continue their rejoin the crystals to achieve Paradise plan. Sound familiar?

The smaller storylines do have more originality, the journey to how we connect the dots of this overarching long haul, but I could go on listing callbacks and plot referentials all throughout every expansion. I just don't have the time.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Pirates in Sastasha = Pirates in Pravoka from FF1 we just don't get a ship out of it. FF1 callback achieved!

Tam Tara Deepcroft = Marsh Cave equivalent (final boss is even a Soulflayer), helping elves in the forest... FF1 callback achieved!

Ifrit through Shiva = Ye Olde Eidolon fight callbacks. FFV callback achieved! (and many such cases through other entries as well)

Garuda exists = FF3 callback achieved!

Crystal Tower, however retroactively added to the MSQ is still the MSQ, FF3 callback achieved!

The OG races before Au Ra, Hrothgar, and Viera = races lifted directly from XI. FFXI callback achieved!

Story specifics wise in the long haul: The Ascians are analogous to the Zilart from FFXI in the overarching brush strokes and plot direction. A goddess split The Crystal so that she and Promathia could give birth to mortalkind, so that Promathia could achieve his own death. The Zilart were once godlike and lived in paradise, and the mothercrystals granted their prince a vision, which he shared telepathically with all other Zilart, excluding their fellow Kuluu who lost that ability but were still people. If they achieved paradise, it would destroy the now imperfect Vana'diel, so the Kuluu rebelled and fought them, irradiating the planet with a magical crystal line meltdown. The Kuluu were mutated into Tonberries, and the Zilart who survived did so in stasis slumber for 10000 years, re-emerging by the events of the game to continue their rejoin the crystals to achieve Paradise plan. Sound familiar?

The smaller storylines do have more originality, the journey to how we connect the dots of this overarching long haul, but I could go on listing callbacks and plot referentials all throughout every expansion. I just don't have the time.

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They will probably most likely still deny ff14 directly rips from other ff games and ask you to provide more evidence only to keep denying ff14 doesn't reuse story/ideas/themes from the other games in the main story. People seem to think ripping story/themes from other ff games and changing them slightly to fit ff14 somehow makes it a cool new unique enough idea that it somehow makes it not a rip from the game there ripping the ideas from

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Originally Posted by KenZentra

Like what from the MSQ?

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The Garleans borrow HEAVILY from FF2, FF6, FF7, and FF12 to the point where you need to be blind or ignorant of the FF series as a whole to not notice. They reuse magitek models from FF6 and armor from FF12 and the only things original at all about the Garleans were assets introduced in 1.0. Almost everything relating to the plot that involves Garleans were already done similarly with evil empires/corporations in other FF games if they didn't just shamelessly rip them out from other games completely with a wink and a nod. Emet-Selch's personality and even his theme song hit really close to Ardyn from FF15.

Stormblood takes a lot of its plot points and even whole locations from FF6.

Then there's the whole thing about the entire story being kicked off by a character named Venat who comes from a race of higher beings and joins forces with the lower beings against her own people in order to change the status quo.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

The Garleans borrow HEAVILY from FF2, FF6, FF7, and FF12 to the point where you need to be blind or ignorant of the FF series as a whole to not notice. They reuse magitek models from FF6 and armor from FF12 and the only things original at all about the Garleans were assets introduced in 1.0. Almost everything relating to the plot that involves Garleans were already done similarly with evil empires/corporations in other FF games if they didn't just shamelessly rip them out from other games completely with a wink and a nod. Emet-Selch's personality and even his theme song hit really close to Ardyn from FF15.

Stormblood takes a lot of its plot points and even whole locations from FF6.

Then there's the whole thing about the entire story being kicked off by a character named Venat who comes from a race of higher beings and joins forces with the lower beings against her own people in order to change the status quo.

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Can you show me what Final Fantasy game a group called the Garleans who are secretly created by another group called the Ascians is in?

Also, could you show me the Final Fantasy game where a villain by the name of Golbez has world domination plans and then is shown to be a fakeout for the real boss named Zeromus and Golbez is actually just a misunderstood good guy?

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

Can you show me what Final Fantasy game a group called the Garleans who are secretly created by another group called the Ascians is in?

Also, could you show me the Final Fantasy game where a villain by the name of Golbez has world domination plans and then is shown to be a fakeout for the real boss named Zeromus and Golbez is actually just a misunderstood good guy?

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The whole golbez arc is directly ripped from ff4 and he was a good guy in the sequel to ff4 but was a puppet to zeromus the entire game and fulfilling zeromus plans. The garleans are a reference to the gestalt/archadian empire from ff6 and 12 down to zenos essentially being just like kefka except zenos didn't become a god. The archadian empire if i remember was controlled by venat or some of the other higher beings which are similar in ff14.

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Originally Posted by Nebelheim

The whole golbez arc is directly ripped from ff4 and he was a good guy in the sequel to ff4 but was a puppet to zeromus the entire game and fulfilling zeromus plans. The garleans are a reference to the gestalt/archadian empire from ff6 and 12 down to zenos essentially being just like kefka except zenos didn't become a god. The archadian empire if i remember was controlled by venat or some of the other higher beings which are similar in ff14.

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That's kind of my point. Golbez is ripped straight out of another game while the other references are at least borrowed at most, they're not just straight up copied. I can't see how anyone can pretend the 6.x story is anything but a filler arc that resembles an alliance raid story more than a proper MSQ plotline.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

Can you show me what Final Fantasy game a group called the Garleans who are secretly created by another group called the Ascians is in?

Also, could you show me the Final Fantasy game where a villain by the name of Golbez has world domination plans and then is shown to be a fakeout for the real boss named Zeromus and Golbez is actually just a misunderstood good guy?

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FF2 had an emperor who hated humanity and saw himself above them, designed weapons of war, comes back after death, and we fight as a personification of death.

Just because the names aren't the same and they're taking from multiple sources to make one thing doesn't suddenly make it original. The villainous organizations of FF2, FF6, FF7, and FF12 were all thrown into the pot and melted together and the Garlean Empire came out with intact plot points and copy-pasted models. You're also out of your mind if you don't think the devs were playing FF6 when they were putting together Stormblood. Enemies, locations, characters, music, overall story all taken from FF6.

If by your measure "Garlean Empire doesn't count" then how does the void arc not count then? They took a lot from FF4 for that, but I don't remember Azdaja, Vrtra, Zero, or the whole setting of The Void being in FF4 and in FF14 Golbez wasn't hunting crystals and wasn't later revealed as being controlled by a being from the moon. If you strip down a lot of the game's story to 3 things like you did, it's going to look like a lot of the other FF games.


There's also still the whole thing I mentioned with Venat, which is closer to the core of the whole story of the game and ripped out of FF12.

And before the writers decided to write an actual backstory and motivations for the Ascians, Hydaelyn and Zodiark were basically just Altana and Promathia from FF11 with the serial numbers filed off and in some aspects, they still are. Speaking of FF11, Ishgard is San d'Oria from FF11 with just a few differences.


I don't think it's a bad thing that there are all of these call-backs or stolen characters and plot points because it's all still within the framework of what Yoshi-P said about the game being a FF theme park. It's not trying to be its own complete original thing and never was. FFXIV is all of the FF series thrown into one place and then a bit of writing to connect it together. Even the more original parts are inspired from elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

FF2 had an emperor who hated humanity and saw himself above them, designed weapons of war, comes back after death, and we fight as a personification of death.

Just because the names aren't the same and they're taking from multiple sources to make one thing doesn't suddenly make it original. The villainous organizations of FF2, FF6, FF7, and FF12 were all thrown into the pot and melted together and the Garlean Empire came out with intact plot points and copy-pasted models. You're also out of your mind if you don't think the devs were playing FF6 when they were putting together Stormblood. Enemies, locations, characters, music, overall story all taken from FF6.

If by your measure "Garlean Empire doesn't count" then how does the void arc not count then? They took a lot from FF4 for that, but I don't remember Azdaja, Vrtra, Zero, or the whole setting of The Void being in FF4 and in FF14 Golbez wasn't hunting crystals and wasn't later revealed as being controlled by a being from the moon. If you strip down a lot of the game's story to 3 things like you did, it's going to look like a lot of the other FF games.


There's also still the whole thing I mentioned with Venat, which is closer to the core of the whole story of the game and ripped out of FF12.

And before the writers decided to write an actual backstory and motivations for the Ascians, Hydaelyn and Zodiark were basically just Altana and Promathia from FF11 with the serial numbers filed off and in some aspects, they still are. Speaking of FF11, Ishgard is San d'Oria from FF11 with just a few differences.


I don't think it's a bad thing that there are all of these call-backs or stolen characters and plot points because it's all still within the framework of what Yoshi-P said about the game being a FF theme park. It's not trying to be its own complete original thing and never was. FFXIV is all of the FF series thrown into one place and then a bit of writing to connect it together. Even the more original parts are inspired from elsewhere.

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Agree to disagree. I personally didn't feel like I was playing FFVI in any sense when I played through Stormblood, but everyone is different, maybe I'm in the minority there.
Take care.

I love when people shit on the 6.x story arc when it was legit better than 6.0. Is the main issue here really that the story and characters are ripped from FFIV? I didn't play that game, didn't get any of the references and liked it. Zero should have been better set up in 6.0 already though I can't fault the patch storyline for that. Her journey was cliché but fun and developed at a good pace.

It suffers (like all of the story really) from presentation issues and (and this is completely my own personal bias) the Japanese cultural influences that lead people to respect other's sometimes at least seemingly, sometimes definitely idiotic actions way beyond what I personally consider reasonable (see Lyse in Stormblood) without so much as even asking the (to a Westerner) neccessary and obvious questions that would lead to clarification and greater understanding in the future for the sheer fear of exposing one's or another's shortcomings and thus bringing shame upon them. Happens in the story all the time that someone does something questionable and it's just being respected instead of questioned and explored. It comes across as people not being genuinely interested in one another and potential plotpoints or even tension between characters not being exploited, when in reality these characters treat each other with a sort of reverence that's (generally speaking) foreign to people in the West. I can't really fault the story for that though so much as myself.

To give an example from the patch content, nobody bats an eye at Zero's decision not to involve herself in the fight against Scarmiglione, while when looking at it from her perspective that was perfectly serviceable aether on a silver platter for her, just taking into account the selfish aether-hungry point of view that she had demonstrated before, without doing us any favor. That's way before we learn that aether from other, especially powerful voidsent can corrupt and destroy one's identity - so it does get explained eventually, but I was confused as shit about it in the moment while the characters in the game were just fine with it, probably thinking to themselves that it's not becoming of them to ask why. Is that bad storytelling or is it just a cultural quirk? I think it's the latter. But it kinda throws me out sometimes cause I feel like I can't culturally relate to those characters, but then again I also feel richer for it and it gives the story an air of mystery that can work in it's favor as well.

Thinking back on Stormblood and Lyse I actually liked how especially Alisaie treated her with a sort of dignity, patience and warmth that is pretty uncommon to see when dealing with a character like her in the West.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

And before the writers decided to write an actual backstory and motivations for the Ascians, Hydaelyn and Zodiark were basically just Altana and Promathia from FF11 with the serial numbers filed off and in some aspects, they still are. Speaking of FF11, Ishgard is San d'Oria from FF11 with just a few differences.

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Now that you mentioned this Ishgard has a lot of san'doria vibes even down to being exclusively inhabited by elezen only and both cities having semi similar styles of music. I never thought about it until now even hilda looks pretty similar to Lilisette and referencing her as there both hald hyur and elezen.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

The Garleans borrow HEAVILY from FF2, FF6, FF7, and FF12 to the point where you need to be blind or ignorant of the FF series as a whole to not notice.

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Im really not about to say that a big, technologically advanced, evil empire invading lands beyond is a stolen idea from anything when that is a plot point for so many different stories and real life events. If I did I'd have to say it was an idea stolen from the British Empire. Again though, if we are going to say Magitek Armor is a stolen storyline, we might as say Morbols from FF2- actually, all monsters, names and items from other games are just copy-pasted story ideas from other FF games. Which again, every FF games does.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

I personally didn't feel like I was playing FFVI in any sense when I played through Stormblood, but everyone is different, maybe I'm in the minority there.

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Cyan is reused as Hien's dad (Kaien is his name in Japanese version of FF6) and Hien/Doma reuses Cyan's theme song which was also the song for Doma in FF6. Hien also has a 2nd name, Shun, which is the name of Cyan/Kaien's kid in the Japanese version. Doma's plot in FF14 is pretty dang close to what happened in FF6 as well minus the poison.

The magitek designs switched from Amano's design for magitek armor to in-game version used in FF6. The Magitek Factory from FF6 (can't remember the actual name) was reused as Castrum Abania and reused the exact same bosses and some of the same enemies.

And the whole plot of Stormblood revolves around fighting a magitek-based empire and specifically the 2nd in command of the empire, who is an insanely powerful psychopathic manchild.

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Originally Posted by KenZentra

Im really not about to say that a big, technologically advanced, evil empire invading lands beyond is a stolen idea from anything when that is a plot point for so many different stories and real life events. If I did I'd have to say it was an idea stolen from the British Empire. Again though, if we are going to say Magitek Armor is a stolen storyline, we might as say Morbols from FF2- actually, all monsters, names and items from other games are just copy-pasted story ideas from other FF games. Which again, every FF games does.

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It kinda is a thing when the technologically advanced, evil empire is not only using the exact same machinery as previous technologically advanced evil empires but even invades the same exact cities. Doma and Dalmsaca being invaded were brought up in the MSQ all the way back in ARR and both were places invaded by technologically advanced evil empires in other FF games. The reaper even uses Terra's Theme from FF6 when you jump in it. And the artbook mentions that characters like Gaius were designed specifically to evoke the Gestahlian Empire from FF6.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

psychopathic manchild

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Hey, hey now. Kefka is not a manchild. Just a psychopath. I often wonder how he was prior to being the first Magitek infused human in the Gestahlian Empire. There's no mention of how he was before then. Also no mention on if it was done to him as a baby, like it was to Celes.

If only they'd stop perpetually adding to FFVII's world and remaking it, and get on the stick and add to VI's.

Still sad Athena didn't scream "Ungahhh" at the end of her being defeated to reference the emperor.

Why would they make Athena reference the emperor of anything? o.o?

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Originally Posted by Eisi

I love when people shit on the 6.x story arc when it was legit better than 6.0. Is the main issue here really that the story and characters are ripped from FFIV? I didn't play that game, didn't get any of the references and liked it. Zero should have been better set up in 6.0 already though I can't fault the patch storyline for that. Her journey was cliché but fun and developed at a good pace.

It suffers (like all of the story really) from presentation issues and (and this is completely my own personal bias) the Japanese cultural influences that lead people to respect other's sometimes at least seemingly, sometimes definitely idiotic actions way beyond what I personally consider reasonable (see Lyse in Stormblood) without so much as even asking the (to a Westerner) neccessary and obvious questions that would lead to clarification and greater understanding in the future for the sheer fear of exposing one's or another's shortcomings and thus bringing shame upon them. Happens in the story all the time that someone does something questionable and it's just being respected instead of questioned and explored. It comes across as people not being genuinely interested in one another and potential plotpoints or even tension between characters not being exploited, when in reality these characters treat each other with a sort of reverence that's (generally speaking) foreign to people in the West. I can't really fault the story for that though so much as myself.

To give an example from the patch content, nobody bats an eye at Zero's decision not to involve herself in the fight against Scarmiglione, while when looking at it from her perspective that was perfectly serviceable aether on a silver platter for her, just taking into account the selfish aether-hungry point of view that she had demonstrated before, without doing us any favor. That's way before we learn that aether from other, especially powerful voidsent can corrupt and destroy one's identity - so it does get explained eventually, but I was confused as shit about it in the moment while the characters in the game were just fine with it, probably thinking to themselves that it's not becoming of them to ask why. Is that bad storytelling or is it just a cultural quirk? I think it's the latter. But it kinda throws me out sometimes cause I feel like I can't culturally relate to those characters, but then again I also feel richer for it and it gives the story an air of mystery that can work in it's favor as well.

Thinking back on Stormblood and Lyse I actually liked how especially Alisaie treated her with a sort of dignity, patience and warmth that is pretty uncommon to see when dealing with a character like her in the West.

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I can do this too. 6.0 post patches were boring and I literally had zero interest in them. I was very happy to see it end. 6.0 by comparison was amazing. La la la

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Originally Posted by Reap00

I can do this too. 6.0 post patches were boring and I literally had zero interest in them. I was very happy to see it end. 6.0 by comparison was amazing. La la la

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Meanwhile, I find both of them rather difficult to enjoy due to various plot holes that exist. That being said I wont tell you what you should think is "good" or "bad"

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Originally Posted by ZavosEsperian

Meanwhile, I find both of them rather difficult to enjoy due to various plot holes that exist. That being said I wont tell you what you should think is "good" or "bad"

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I was just happy no more blood was being added to our ledger. "Oh, a story about the power of friendship, that's cool." Though I really hope we're done with the assisted suicide boss fights, it's getting depressing. I'm tired of powerful beings using the WoL to end their existence. Build a volcano or something and leave me out of it.

I'm still a bit bent out of shape about the whole dialogue between Zero and Durante.

"Do you think we could truly have the world of old back?"

"Anything is possible if we work together!"

Straight up kneecapping their own themes for the 6.0 expansion in the 6.5 story resolution. I'm not sure if they've ever done that quite so overtly before.

It's unfortunate but it's exactly what I expect to see more of moving forward. The game has always been exceedingly preachy but I think a lot of people could stomach it much more easily when it at least tried to be consistent.

That aside, I remain morbidly curious to see what the upcoming Fan Fest intends to reveal in order to drum up excitement and further investment in the game's story.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

I'm still a bit bent out of shape about the whole dialogue between Zero and Durante.

"Do you think we could truly have the world of old back?"

"Anything is possible if we work together!"

Straight up kneecapping their own themes for the 6.0 expansion in the 6.5 story resolution. I'm not sure if they've ever done that quite so overtly before.

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Bold of you to assume the writers remembering anything they didn't write, like, or want in their story.

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Originally Posted by EgilTheStressedMage

Bold of you to assume the writers remembering anything they didn't write, like, or want in their story.

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And that is the problem with projects of this nature, too many hands in the pot. When you have writers who can work with and respect others work it's fine but XIV hasn't had that since at LEAST Stormblood and I feel like people could point me to earlier examples as well.

As someone who has voraciously devoured books since first grade, the worst thing you can do is have multiple writers work on the same story or book series without a strong collaboration. At best it feels like taking an unexpected step down in the dark, at worst like you just dropped off a cliff.

I feel like XIV in particular has just gotten away from what it means to tell a compelling story. A lot of what drew me in was the internal conflicts of the WoL as well as the possibility that we were fighting a fight that would possibly be our undoing. But it ultimately fell short due to so much of what has happened, what was happening and now seemingly what is going to happen, be reduced to Shounen anime nonsense with a feel good msg. And I'll be honest, some of my favorite animes are just that, but at least in those cases it doesn't feel reductive. Metion feels reductive, how the ancients turned out feels reductive.

One moment I'm praising the story for there to be this possibility that the planet itself was enacting a possible cycle, this unknown sound coming seemingly from deep within the planet, to a giant bird familiar who's too empathetic, manipulating the powers of emotion to exact her vengeance for making her feel feels......Can we go back to when we thought Zodiark and Hydaelyn were two parts of some bigger Primal God that was in the earth making the sounds that turned people into monsters?

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Originally Posted by strawberrycake

I feel like XIV in particular has just gotten away from what it means to tell a compelling story. A lot of what drew me in was the internal conflicts of the WoL as well as the possibility that we were fighting a fight that would possibly be our undoing. But it ultimately fell short due to so much of what has happened, what was happening and now seemingly what is going to happen, be reduced to Shounen anime nonsense with a fell good msg. And I'll be honest, some of my favorite animes are just that, but at least in those cases it feels reductive. Metion feels reductive, how the ancients turned out feels reductive.

One moment I'm praising the story for there to be this possibility that the planet itself was enacting a possible cycle, this unknown sound comming seemingly from deep within the planet, to a giant bird familiar who's too empathetic, manipulating the powers of emotion to exact her vengence for making her feel feels......Can we go back to when we thought Zodiark and Hydaelyn were two parts of some bigger Primal God that was in the earth making the sounds that turned people into monsters?

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This.
I don't understand how you can eat up this nonsense after the more mature writing that happened before.
Like how do the "best minds" who can literally do almost anything decide that an immature kid who is confused with his emotions and how the world works should be a leader of a section of their society and then make him able to create a thing without restraints?
And the biggest offender, power of feelings. M8 did they pay disney for the copyright for that?

I will give the writer a bit of leeway for covid and trying to cram everything into a single patch so ultimately the fault lies with the one who decided they need to wrap things up quick.
IMO they should have just took their time and made 2 expacs to flesh out the garlemald arc and then the asciancs arc.

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Originally Posted by Solakor

And the biggest offender, power of feelings. M8 did they pay disney for the copyright for that?

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Oh how I wish my problem with Endwalker was that it had a lame saccharin sweet moral. Because see, the moral I got wasn't the power of feelings, but that for the strong to survive, the weak must be culled. And the weak are any ethnic group sitting on land we want and the mentally ill. Hermes, Meteion and the blasphemies are all dangers to society due to an inability to handle trauma. So much of a danger that the entire universe might end if these weaklings are allowed to roam free. They must be put down for the good of all. It's the kind of mentality that gets mentally ill people choked to death on subways because the passengers are afraid of their strange behavior.

How they gave our beloved mommy the same worldview as Zenos without noticing is beyond me. "Meaningless? Men die that others may live. Those who survive are stronger for it." How do you accidentally make an argument for fascism?! How did no one see what was being implied by Endwalker?

So by the time we get to the 6.1 content and they are sticking with morals as benign as the importance teamwork, you get no complaints from me because at least it's not about who we should exterminate for the good of all. But then based on comments here it hit me that Golbez has been working with others the entire time. Both before and after their world fell to darkness, so the argument that their world fell to darkness because they fought alone falls flat. They came out on a tricycle with training wheels and still messed up their themes. I am afraid for Dawntrail. I just don't trust these writers to not have us do a colonialism at this point.

I'm already getting my arguments ready as to why it's wrong to go to a foreign land, conquer them and install a government that serves our interests because at this point we didn't defeat the Garleans--we became them.

I don't think they meant for that kind of message tbh but the fact that you can make so many head canons and not having a good coherent story is why it is bad.
Again, trying to fit 2 expacs (at least) worth of stuff into a single patch is bound to fail.