Predictions for job(s) in the next expansion?

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Originally Posted by Craiger

Why would they have a whole cutscene literally just for him picking a weapon that we don't get to see? If he picked up a DRK sword something, why hide that? Really doesn't make much sense.

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You are talking about the same people that hid the Crystal Exarch's true identity for most of Shadowbringers even though playing through the Crystal Tower raid quests from ARR told you exactly who he was. They do some times play coy with the obvious.

Yoshida is also the kind of guy to shove a necromancer boss into the 5.3 dungeon then wear a shirt featuring the Grim Reaper on stage during a presentation about upcoming classes two months later and then go "Necromancer? What's a necromancer?" He is not above throwing us a red herring or playing with us in regards to these class hints.

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Originally Posted by Craiger

I can see connections to judge too, but you do have to agree that it's more far-fetched than a job based on Sice.

It's not about the hairstyle, and it's not even just about using scythe (don't know why everyone focuses on that). Sice is a reaper pretty much, and her signature ability is "grim reaper". Regardless of what you predict, nobody can deny the connections of a reaper from Yoshi-P shirts, to the only Final Fantasy character/job that is a reaper.

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And I wouldn't be surprised if it was a job based on Sice and I wouldn't mind that. The only thing is that I haven't seen any hint of that in the game but there have been some odd coincidental things happening in regards to Gaius. Which is why I threw this theory out there in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Craiger

Zenos taking on the new job is a guess, but it's all but confirmed that's the case.

Why would they have a whole cutscene literally just for him picking a weapon that we don't get to see? If he picked up a DRK sword something, why hide that? Really doesn't make much sense.

I can see connections to judge too, but you do have to agree that it's more far-fetched than a job based on Sice.

It's not about the hairstyle, and it's not even just about using scythe (don't know why everyone focuses on that). Sice is a reaper pretty much, and her signature ability is "grim reaper". Regardless of what you predict, nobody can deny the connections of a reaper from Yoshi-P shirts, to the only Final Fantasy character/job that is a reaper.

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It's basically the whole problem.
Why hide a scythe when all clues supposedly confirms it? It's not announced yet but if the job was reaper, why not show Zenos weapon?
Gosetsu was introduced at5.55 and he had a clearly visible Katana announcing Samurai as a (potential) job.

What is the point of hiding the Scythe at this point where everyone is 95% sure it's a Scythe?
There could be no reason and SQEX thought we wouldn't make the connexion between reaper and a scythe but I doubt their think so lowly of us.
The best reason is that they didn't finished the actual Scythe or are still debating on its model.

It's at the point where you say to your parents "I want X for Christmas", get X for Christmas and have to be surprised about it?
Clearly, our expectations so far are Reaper >>> Templar >>>>>>>>>> Judge >> Something else.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

It's basically the whole problem.
Why hide a scythe when all clues supposedly confirms it? It's not announced yet but if the job was reaper, why not show Zenos weapon?
Gosetsu was introduced before 5.55 and he had a clearly visible Katana announcing Samurai as a (potential) job.

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3.56 and Gosetsu's first full appearance was post-full trailer Samurai reveal. Endwalker's full trailer is getting release on May 14th and the 5.55+ story patch will be the first story patch released after it.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

It's basically the whole problem.
Why hide a scythe when all clues supposedly confirms it? It's not announced yet but if the job was reaper, why not show Zenos weapon?
Gosetsu was introduced before 5.55 and he had a clearly visible Katana announcing Samurai as a (potential) job.

What is the point of hiding the Scythe at this point where everyone is 95% sure it's a Scythe?
There could be no reason and SQEX thought we wouldn't make the connexion between reaper and a scythe but I doubt their think so lowly of us.
The best reason is that they didn't finished the actual Scythe or are still debating on its model.

It's at the point where you say to your parents "I want X for Christmas", get X for Christmas and have to be surprised about it?
Clearly, our expectations so far are Reaper >>> Templar >>>>>>>>>> Judge >> Something else.

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Because Yoshi-P likes to tease people with those hints, let them be obvious or not. There's nothing concrete yet about a scythe, only speculation that can possibly not be anything of that.

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Originally Posted by Kalaam

I mostly agree and I'd like to add 2 things:

On the 1st point: Imagine if Zenos showed up with Ardbert's axe. That'd be a big mindtwist on the WoL, wether he is aware or not. Though the shape on the trailer pic with the throne doesn't fit. (It also doesn't fit a scythe either, if it was we should see the blade poking out from the far left side, unless it folds toward the shaft of what we see is the bottom and the blade rests on the ground in front of Zenos. But then it would also be a spear, an axe... heck, it could be a bow, after all he is a hunter (ok that last one I'm joking)).

Second point: One of the shirt had the reaper say something like "I'll be there if you need me". One could make a small stretch to Emet's attitude in ShB who basically said this to the Scions and the WoL. "If you need help, I'm here. Totally trustworthy, I just want to try cooperation for a change". It's a stretch, but most theories are.

I aggree that all the emphasis on Zenos' weapon could be a red herring, but then it could be a red herring of a red herring too! ahahahah

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My first theory was actually a job that wields a Scythe (reaper reference) but also wields Ascian-esque powers (Emet's reference), that narrative about turning the enemy's power against them.

But then I thought... They want to end the whole Zodiark saga with 6.0, does it make sense to create a job fashioned after those powers? Unless is more or less something like a Void Reaper, that won't necessarily tie with that directly.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

My first theory was actually a job that wields a Scythe (reaper reference) but also wields Ascian-esque powers (Emet's reference), that narrative about turning the enemy's power against them.

But then I thought... They want to end the whole Zodiark saga with 6.0, does it make sense to create a job fashioned after those powers? Unless is more or less something like a Void Reaper, that won't necessarily tie with that directly.

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I don't think it would make much sense to tie the job that tightly to zodiark/hydaelyn/ascians.

Neither would it to lock it behind "being the warrior of light" either. One thing I like about the jobs is that "any adventurer" could have come and done those quests. The WoL just happened to be the one who does (in your adventure).
By that I mean, someone else could have found Fray's body and started the DRK quest, their story would have been different since they don't have the baggage of the WoL, but they *could*.

If a job is "locked" behind being the WoL, it gets weird. It breaks that very fragile illusion of being "unique". It fully shows that everyone with that job IS the WoL. Where as before, they are just other adventurers, who got their jobs in their own ways (that's were personnal RP comes in).

Tldr: Any job that needs to be doned by the WoL specifically to happen breaks immersion/narrative and is (imo) not happening.


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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

3.56 and Gosetsu's first full appearance was post-full trailer Samurai reveal. Endwalker's full trailer is getting release on May 14th and the 5.55+ story patch will be the first story patch released after it.

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Then Gabranth is fair game, as he is likely to appear in the final Bozja questline. And we know he uses a non-standard weapon set (twin swords, both with a very "non imperial" design since they used the Wootz Scimitar). Reveal whatever the job is (Judge, Mystic Knight, Rune Knight...) and give us a taste with a boss being that job.
Bozja has strong ties to the current situation of Garlemald, and by extension some of Endwalker's plot. So it would work.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

My first theory was actually a job that wields a Scythe (reaper reference) but also wields Ascian-esque powers (Emet's reference), that narrative about turning the enemy's power against them.

But then I thought... They want to end the whole Zodiark saga with 6.0, does it make sense to create a job fashioned after those powers? Unless is more or less something like a Void Reaper, that won't necessarily tie with that directly.

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I think it would be a sort of "Celebration of the Ascian Arc final", a memento.
Basically a "Remember us, remember Zodiark, never forget this adventure" job.

It would be cool in my opinion. A job created by XIV, for XIV.

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Originally Posted by Karl0217

No, it is still a guess. ...

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My point is that calling it just "a guess" is underselling it. Semantically, it's true, but the evidence available to support that guess is substantially greater than what's available for the case of Zenos not using the new weapon (or that the new job doesn't use a scythe, for that matter). They're not on equal footing like you describe.

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Originally Posted by Karl0217

... as others have pointed out earlier in the thread that was to serve as a contrast to the WoL from the trailer. It is also probably why his weapon collection consisted of ones belonging to classes the WoL has been in the trailers ...

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Is this not the same thing? A series of guesses? We don't know that Zenos used katanas to serve as a contrast to trailer WoL (and if he did, that's a poor contrast). As far as I'm aware, he used a katana because he was intrigued by the combat style when he arrived at Doma and wanted to master it.

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Originally Posted by Karl0217

...it could very well be the case that Zeno's new weapon is a red herring and he could changing into another class the WoL has showcased in the trailers like Warrior...

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If you're arguing from the angle that it could happen, then yes, it could, but it's very unlikely. Job teases and reveals have never been ambiguous and intentionally misleading.

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Originally Posted by Karl0217

... I am not sure a hairstyle added to the game five years ago is evidence of the new class.

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I never said that. I said the timely re-inclusion of a hairstyle worn by an FF character that primarily uses a scythe and represents the grim reaper theme--after several of Yoshi-P's shirts have had scythes and reapers on them--is evidence of a new scythe job.

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Originally Posted by Karl0217

As for Yoshida's shirt hints, the idea that a Grim Reaper shirt hint might be hinting at class tied originating from army created by a guy named after a God of Death and fielding Reaper battle mechs...

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Hades is the Greek god of the underworld, not death. I thought I included that in my original nitpick but apparently not, whoops. You're thinking of Thanatos. Regardless, what does magitek reaper armor have to do with a job that fights on foot? It's Garlean, sure, but that's it. That's the only relation. Given Yoshi-P's shirt history, it's not nearly direct enough of a hint.

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Originally Posted by Karl0217

And Garlemald is not wiped out. ... 5.5 made it pretty clear we are going to be fighting Garlean forces, largely under the Telophoroi banner, for most of Endwalker...

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Garlemald is the equivalent of a smoking crater in the 6.0 trailer. That's what I was referring to. There's no reasonable way we can assume who or what we'll be dealing with for the majority of Endwalker from the first half of 5.5, though.


A lot of what I'm trying to say to you is that while yes, hypothetically, anything is possible and Yoshi-P could just have wanted to be incredibly vague about revealing this particular job, it's overwhelmingly more likely that he's being direct like he's always been and the job uses a scythe. I would love to be proven wrong, but I just don't see that happening.

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Originally Posted by sdlister

My point is that calling it just "a guess" is underselling it....

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My point is calling it more then a guess is overselling it. You got three shirt hints featuring the Grim Reaper on it, one of which doesn't even have a scythe on it, and them being coy about revealing Zenos's new weapon. No more, no less.

And from that people are guessing the shirts mean a scythe wielding class and Zenos is going to showcase this new class. What happens if the shirt hints reference a class with death themed armor and death themed abilities and no scythe? That's a very real possibility.

And I remember when the first trailer for Stormblood dropped and a lot of people jumped to the assumption that Lyse sparing with the WoL atop that statue was a fight between a Monk and Dancer, that the Girl In Red (Lyse) was a Dancer and Dancer was going to be a job added in Stormblood. Turned out it was just two Monks sparing. That alone should serve as a warning about taking something ambiguous from a trailer as a near certainty.

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Originally Posted by sdlister

Job teases and reveals have never been ambiguous and intentionally misleading.

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Yoshida's 007 shirt had people guessing Agent (which was a job in Tactics), Musketeer, Gunner; very few people guessed Machinist. Most people agreed it was a gun using class but that was about it. The Spiderman shirt had a lot of people guessing Blue Mage - because Peter Parker got bitten to get his powers and a Blue Mage gets attacked by monsters for its powers - and a lot of people mocked the Sam Raimi / Samurai theory. You are looking at these shirt hints with the benefit of hindsight and it is that hindsight make it seem like they have never been ambiguous but looking back on the discussion threads at the time paints a very different picture.

And Hades is both the Greek God of the Underworld and of the Dead. I think it is disingenuous to say that the name is not connected with death because the Greeks had other gods associated with death like Thanatos and Charon. Also, saying the fact the Garlean Army fields an armored vehicle called the Reaper is not evidence of a potential Garlean soldier class because we fight on foot is in the same category as saying the scythe can't be a weapon because the Botanists use it already in game.

And yes, we can reasonably assume that we will be dealing with the Garlean Army for a good chunk of Endwalker from 5.5. We know they are building Zenos's tower and will likely be garrisoning it and the area around it. We know a large chunk of the Garlean Army have joined up with the Telophoroi. We know they released dungeon artwork showing a train depot at a Garlean military base. We even had Fandaniel bragging that the Garlean Empire and Army was the cornerstone of his plan in the last cutscene: "A mighty Empire, now no more then an instrument for this star's destruction. What a pleasure it will be to put it to use!"

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Originally Posted by Malmstrom

I'd rather they work on some of the existing jobs with issues.

I'll take a MCH-like MNK overhaul before another job.

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you mean make the job insultingly easy and unintuitive? no thanks by this abhorrent definition that ive seen too many times what you want is a job that you do 1-2-3 and drill then spam heat blast. Placing in in MNK form would turn it into a huge bore. Let MNK mold its own identity and MCH isnt a rework its a reduction and isnt the standard of reworks should follow if all jobs were like MCH the game would be shallow as hell

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Originally Posted by Karl0217

You got three shirt hints featuring the Grim Reaper on it, one of which doesn't even have a scythe on it, and them being coy about revealing Zenos's new weapon. No more, no less.

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This is already more compelling evidence than your idea has. I don't know why you're phrasing it like it's barely anything substantial, given the context and history behind those two factors.

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Originally Posted by Karl0217

...Turned out it was just two Monks sparing. That alone should serve as a warning about taking something ambiguous from a trailer as a near certainty.

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This is really against you, isn't it? Yoshi-P never hinted at dancer and no other factors even implied it outside of Lyse's trailer outfit. The people who thought she'd be dancer wanted her to be a dancer, so they molded the situation into her plausibly being one. I don't even want a scythe job--I want what you're suggesting, but even I can tell it's not likely based on the evidence you've presented.

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Originally Posted by Karl0217

Yoshida's 007 shirt had people guessing ... very few people guessed Machinist. Most people agreed it was a gun using class but that was about it...

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This also works against you. Your situation is like looking at that 007 shirt, ignoring the gun, and claiming it's gambler because Gold Saucer content was added recently.

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Originally Posted by Karl0217

And Hades is both the Greek God of the Underworld and of the Dead. I think it is disingenuous to say that the name is not connected with death because the Greeks had other gods associated with death like Thanatos and Charon.

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You called him the god of death.

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Originally Posted by Karl0217

Also, saying the fact the Garlean Army fields an armored vehicle called the Reaper is not evidence of a potential Garlean soldier class because we fight on foot is in the same category as saying the scythe can't be a weapon because the Botanists use it already in game.

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No it isn't. This doesn't make any sense to me. Why would Yoshi-P wear a bunch of shirts referencing a vehicle in Garlemald that has no relation to the job itself, outside of being from the same nation? Would he not simply wear shirts that correspond to the actual job? This is again an issue of thinking Yoshi-P will be inexplicably much more vague about this reveal than he's ever been in the history of FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Karl0217

And yes, we can reasonably assume that we will be dealing with the Garlean Army for a good chunk of Endwalker from 5.5....

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I like how you rephrased your wording from most to "a good chunk". Those are very different terms. Maybe the Garleans last for a while, and maybe they become a non-issue after a dungeon. To say with authority that we'll be fighting Garleans for most of Endwalker is unreasonable to assume based on one half of a patch, but I'm not going to press it further because it's ultimately irrelevant to the discussion.

The last shirt during live letter (angel with scythe, too much of a pattern for all these shirts to not be a hint) got me thinking more in the line of Angel of Death specifically.

Didn't really get too far with it, but it does immediately point me towards Azrael when thinking of Angel of Death. While I haven't played tactics, it does also point towards Zalera (anagram of Azrael), and I mean, as far as I can see, that boss has the job "Angel of Death" who spawns undead to fight with him.

As I said, I haven't played the game, so really can't take much more from it, and it probably isn't related at all, but still thought it was interesting.

Sdlister, please don't call hints "evidence".
An evidence is a solid, tangible proof of something. Like the fact that Zenos has a new weapon.
The shirts are cryptic hints, not evidences.

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Originally Posted by sdlister

This is already more compelling evidence than your idea has.

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A guess about what Yoshida's shirt hints at is not evidence. Nor is a guess about the nature of Zenos's new weapon evidence. Both are speculation.

And Sice's hair being re-added to the game is circumstantial evidence at best as it was a recurring reward for a seasonal event they were thinking about putting on the Mog Station and then changed their mind about it when the player base pushed back. The other item from the game used to support the scythe theory is Ranjit but he has a draconic theme instead of a death theme; so Ranjit is not exactly conclusive either especially since we can give the draconic themed Dragoon a scythe glamour.

In contrast, the Graleans have a lot death motifs and themes associated with them. They were founded by a guy named after a Greek Death God; Hades was the God of the Underworld and Ruler of the Dead so he is a death god the same way Charon the Ferryman who carried souls across the river Styx was a death god. They also have a war mech called the Reaper. They have soldiers like Gaius with skull faced helmets and Gaius still has his skull face plate clipped to his belt. They field military units like the Crania Lupi (Wolf Skulls), nicknamed the Skulls by the Ala Mighans and their commander Fordola just showed up again in the MSQ. Gaius also just unleashed a new attack called Yellow Death and was shown holding a magitek soul crystal.

And let me point something else out while we are on the subject of Garlemald; we have previously gotten three classes based out of the war torn lands Zenos has ruled over. Ninja (Doma), Samurai (Doma) and Red Mage (Ala Migho). Garlemald in Endwalker is pretty much in the same place Doma and Ala Migho were in Stormblood; war torn with Zenos's troops occupying the territory and Zenos camped out in the royal palace with a primal he intends to merge with. When we have either went to lands Zenos rules over or we have encountered a major NPC whose homeland was fighting Zenos such as Yugiri we have gotten a class based out of that land. This has already happened three times. I wouldn't discount the possibility it will happen a fourth time.

Now none of this is conclusive but there is more circumstantial stuff in the game pointing at the Garleans then there is anything scythe related.

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Originally Posted by sdlister

Your situation is like looking at that 007 shirt, ignoring the gun, and claiming it's gambler because Gold Saucer content was added recently.

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I don't think you thought this statement through because you were the one arguing in your last two posts that Sice's hairstyle being added to the Golden Saucer was proof the the new melee class would be a scythe wielder.

Also, "most" and "a good chunk" are not mutually contradictory terms as 70% of something would still be most of something and a good chunk of something.

Might I add that on the latest shirt, the character with a skullface is riding the creature holding the scythe. Riding a "Reaper" is something garlean officers do :p (Yes, this is a stretch)


Edit: someone found a high res picture of the shirt's motif. It's not someone riding the back of an angel, it's a naked angel with a skull mask seemingly leading the way (as it is looking behind itself while running) or fleeing from something.
Behind it, there is a big eye partially hidden by the angel.

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Originally Posted by Kalaam

Might I add that on the latest shirt, the character with a skullface is riding the creature holding the scythe. Riding a "Reaper" is something garlean officers do :p (Yes, this is a stretch)

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The character with the skull face is the one holding the scythe. There is no one riding the skull faced character https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...i5unrv3sd4.png

I also think the garlean theory is way more of a stretch than any evidence we have gotten. It's highly likely that zenos will be the rep of the weapon and a loose representation on what the new melee will be like since His samurai was more of a tank than a melee dps. They wouldn't be being this performative with zenos's weapon if he wasn't going to rep the weapon. He also has had training from other parts of ilsabard so he is very versatile in different fighting artes opening up more room for it to be from anywhere.

Looking to Gaius for hints is kinda just wrong imo considering that he has not hinted he wanted to pick up a new matial arte and a attack named yellow death is not great evidence for a hint. Also saying hades is a hint feels wrong as well considering he isn't hades to the empire, he's solus. Like those you're basically chiding you're looking at stuff that don't relate to each other and saying they are related while those saying that the shirts lean towards a scythe wielding job have more grounds to stand on because majority of the shirts have had a scythe on them. If yoshida was hinting at a garlean based job he would probably have used multiple different shirts that show other images that relate to garlemald instead of just ones that invoke the grim reaper, like a predator since they also have a magitek named predator. (Plus the fact that garleans cant manipulate aether)

I think a Scythe wielding job modelled on Sice is the obvious option.
They want jobs to be based on something in the series, even XIV's "entirely original" job Astrologian is based on Orran Durai from Tactics. Gunbreaker is clearly based on Squall/Seifer/Lightning. So where whole job concepts like Dancer and Sage can't be found, they tie them into specific characters.
Scythe is a popular choice of weapon, but 'necromancer' is out of the question and the only other scythe wielders in the wider franchise are Dark Knights... or Sice.

I think Zenos' weapon is a bit too on the nose to not be a hint, and he's definitely driving that 'reaper' theme in trying to bring the end of days. Whether or not 'Reaper' ends up being the theme or name of the job I can't be sure, it could simply be the justification for giving Zenos a scythe.

One option I like the sound of is 'Ravager'. This was a job in XII:RW and a role in XIII. A frenzied melee job that utilises magic in the heat of battle... sounds a lot like Sice.

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Originally Posted by Rymi64

If yoshida was hinting at a garlean based job he would probably have used multiple different shirts that show other images that relate to garlemald instead of just ones that invoke the grim reaper, like a predator since they also have a magitek named predator.

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If he did that we would still be having this discussion because the Predators wielded scythes in the games, movies and comics; you can even buy Predator toys with scythes:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....AC_SL1300_.jpg

https://www.amazon.com/NECA-Predator.../dp/B00FWXMSDW

People would still be arguing for scythes using that as evidence and anybody pointing out that the Garleans had a couple of mechs named Predator and Reaper would be told they were reaching.

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Originally Posted by Rymi64

(Plus the fact that garleans cant manipulate aether)

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Neither can Thancred. That didn't stop him from highlighting a new class, Gunbreaker, this expansion.

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Originally Posted by Kalaam

Sdlister, please don't call hints "evidence".
An evidence is a solid, tangible proof of something. Like the fact that Zenos has a new weapon.
The shirts are cryptic hints, not evidences.

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The word evidence can be defined in two ways: an indication of something, or direct proof. I'm using the former.

Then our hints are also evidences.

Evidence can be weak or strong.
If it were solid proof... it would be called "proof".
But if something is too weak then I'd struggle to call it 'evidence' rather than 'indication'.

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Originally Posted by Karl0217

A guess about what Yoshida's shirt hints at is not evidence. Nor is a guess about the nature of Zenos's new weapon evidence. Both are speculation.

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A scythe on two out of three of Yoshida's shirts is evidence of the new job potentially using a scythe.

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Originally Posted by Karl0217

They were founded by a guy named after a Greek Death God; Hades was the God of the Underworld and Ruler of the Dead so he is a death god the same way Charon the Ferryman who carried souls across the river Styx was a death god.

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Hades is not a god of death, and neither is Charon. This is nonsense. Death is a process; an event that occurs, and that is what Thanatos presides over. Hades is the god of the underworld and the dead that reside in it. Charon is a ferryman for Hades. They are related to death, but they are not gods of death.

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Originally Posted by Karl0217

...I wouldn't discount the possibility it will happen a fourth time.

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This is an incredible stretch.

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Originally Posted by Karl0217

I don't think you thought this statement through because you were the one arguing in your last two posts that Sice's hairstyle being added to the Golden Saucer was proof the the new melee class would be a scythe wielder.

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Yes, Sice's hairstyle--the hairstyle of a character whose weapon and role in her game lines up with what's on the shirts. I thought it through.

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Originally Posted by Kalaam

Then our hints are also evidences.

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I never said they weren't. They're just incredibly weak evidence.

Honestly it would seem more likely for a death themed job to be based on Azem rather than hades considering Azem is the shepherd to the stars in the dark which is closer to the Grim reaper, Them being a shepherd of souls. Plus Azem traveled the world and has a more likely chance to have had some of their fighting style be spread across the world like how Azim and Azeyma seem to have been based on azem's legacy.

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Originally Posted by sdlister

A scythe on two out of three of Yoshida's shirts is evidence of the new job potentially using a scythe.

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You are trying to use a theory about what the shirts are hints of to prove itself. I asked you before about the very real possibility that the shirt hints reference a class with death themed armor and death themed abilities instead of a scythe and didn't get answer.

But if you really want to go down this route all three shirts feature a Grim Reaper, scythe or no scythe, and the biggest reference to the word Reaper in game is the Garlean Army's war mech. Three shirt hints is better than two ergo it is the stronger theory according to your own statement here.

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Originally Posted by sdlister

Hades is not a god of death, and neither is Charon. This is nonsense.

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• HAIDES (Hades) was the king of the underworld and god of the dead. He presided over funeral rites and defended the right of the dead to due burial. Haides was also the god of the hidden wealth of the earth, from the fertile soil with nourished the seed-grain, to the mined wealth of gold, silver and other metals.
  
• What did Hades rule over? Hades ruled over the God of the Dead, the Underworld, the Wealth and the Darkness.
  
• In Greek mythology, Hades is both the land of the dead and the god who rules there. Hades the god (who the Greeks also called Pluto) is the brother of Zeus and Poseidon, who rule the skies and the seas.

I can pull some more reference material if you really want to argue this point.

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Originally Posted by sdlister

This is an incredible stretch.

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One of your key arguments is that Zenos is going to be a new class introduced in a expansion for a second time after he was a Samurai in Stormblood. So I wouldn't be calling arguments based on patterns related to Zenos a stretch if I were you.

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Originally Posted by sdlister

Yes, Sice's hairstyle--the hairstyle of a character whose weapon and role in her game lines up with what's on the shirts. I thought it through.

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A hairstyle that got added to the game in 2017 for a seasonal event in the Golden Saucer. It has been in the game for 5 years now.

And according to the in-game lore in Final Fantasy Type-0 Sice represents the Power of Tenacity; a power that is tied to tanks in FFXIV, not DPS. Sice wields scythe, a weapon wielded by Dark Knights in XI, and parts of her toolkit overlaps with the toolkit of Dark Knights in other games. For example, her Dark Nebula ability is used by Dark Knights in Bravely Default. She seems more like that game's version of a Dark Knight more then anything else.

A shirt with just a Grim Reaper and no visible scythe could still be a hint towards a scythe wielding job, because the Grim Reaper is iconic for wielding a scythe.

Hades, Charon, Thanatos, Death, yada yada yada. Stop showing off guys, you're not getting anywhere with that.

They are clearly teasing Zenos' new weapon, it's obvious that it's going to be the same weapon the new job uses. They couldn't have made it more obvious.

A hairstyle isn't a hint. They've been saying they're going to add the Rainmaker back in to the game for a long time, it's purely coincidence. But Sice is a good example of a scythe wielding character in the franchise if that's where they're going with it. So if the weapon is a Scythe, then the hairstyle is a happy accident.

The "Power of Tenacity" in Type-0 has precisely nothing to do with the Tenacity stat in FFXIV. Sice may well be an interpretation of a Dark Knight in Type-0, but there are only so many weapons they could use for the new maiming job. As I mentioned on the last page. I reckon the possibilities are Scythe, Hammer or Dual Swords (that likely combine, like Judge Gabranth/Zidane). If they are to use a Scythe, they have limited options from which to draw inspiration from, Sice is at the forefront of those options. Moreover, players have been whining about DRK being a tank and not a DPS since it's introduction to the game, so maybe this would be a way of fulfilling those wishes.

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Originally Posted by Karl0217

You are trying to use a theory about what the shirts are hints of to prove itself.

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I have no idea what this means. I feel like my logic was pretty direct.

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Originally Posted by Karl0217

I asked you before about the very real possibility that the shirt hints reference a class with death themed armor and death themed abilities instead of a scythe and didn't get answer.

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Because it wasn't relevant to your original idea. I'm only discussing the possibility of a Garlean job.

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Originally Posted by Karl0217

But if you really want to go down this route all three shirts feature a Grim Reaper, scythe or no scythe, and the biggest reference to the word Reaper in game is the Garlean Army's war mech. Three shirt hints is better than two ergo it is the stronger theory according to your own statement here.

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This is ridiculous logic, but I'll play along: Sice is the "grim reaper" in her game and is considered the goth/punk archetype. So, not only do all three of the shirts reference Sice, but two of the shirts additionally (to my knowledge, I'm not sure about the third) are of punk and death metal bands, respectively--this creates not just three references, but five to support the Sice theory.

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Originally Posted by Karl0217

I can pull some more reference material if you really want to argue this point.

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By all means--you're only arguing against yourself. Being a god of the dead is not equivalent to being a god of death. I explained the difference in my last post.

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Originally Posted by Karl0217

One of your key arguments is that Zenos is going to be a new class introduced in a expansion for a second time after he was a Samurai in Stormblood. So I wouldn't be calling arguments based on patterns related to Zenos a stretch if I were you.

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His new weapon for Endwalker has deliberately been concealed because we're supposed to expect that the new job will use the same weapon, just as it was in Stormblood. The idea that the three eastern jobs we have are an indication that the next job will be from Garlemald because Zenos was in both places is nowhere near equivalent and is a stretch by comparison.

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Originally Posted by Karl0217

A hairstyle that got added to the game in 2017 for a seasonal event in the Golden Saucer. It has been in the game for 5 years now.

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And was re-added as a permanent purchase months before 6.0 and the new job, which has been heavily hinted at to be based on Sice, are launched. I don't know why you're bringing this up again.

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Originally Posted by Karl0217

And according to the in-game lore in Final Fantasy Type-0 Sice represents the Power of Tenacity; a power that is tied to tanks in FFXIV, not DPS. Sice wields scythe, a weapon wielded by Dark Knights in XI, and parts of her toolkit overlaps with the toolkit of Dark Knights in other games. For example, her Dark Nebula ability is used by Dark Knights in Bravely Default. She seems more like that game's version of a Dark Knight more then anything else.

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Dark Knights only used scythes in XI. Sharing a single move with Dark Knights in an entirely different series doesn't rule out her candidacy. I'm not going to say that the job will be based strictly on her and her moveset, but she does seem like the most likely choice for inspiration given her grim reaper motif.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Hades, Charon, Thanatos, Death, yada yada yada. Stop showing off guys, you're not getting anywhere with that.

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You're probably right.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

A hairstyle isn't a hint. They've been saying they're going to add the Rainmaker back in to the game for a long time, it's purely coincidence. But Sice is a good example of a scythe wielding character in the franchise if that's where they're going with it. So if the weapon is a Scythe, then the hairstyle is a happy accident.

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I don't know how you can say this with confidence. The timing couldn't be more convenient, regardless of how long they've planned to add it back. It's not as though their solution was intensive--it was added to a vendor and left at that. They could have done that anytime they wanted. The fact that it was only officially discussed right about when the new jobs for an expansion are decided upon and released months before the expansion itself is extremely conspicuous.

Guys tone it down, you are no fun.

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Originally Posted by sdlister

Because it wasn't relevant to your original idea. I'm only discussing the possibility of a Garlean job.

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Considering how I am using Gaius firing off a new ability called Yellow Death in cutscene along with fact that Gaius had a skull faced helmet as supporting evidence I would say that the question whither a class with death themed armor and death themed abilities instead of a scythe is a real possibility is very relevant.

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Originally Posted by sdlister

This is ridiculous logic, but I'll play along

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You do realize that was the same logic you are using for the shirts meaning scythes applied to the Reaper mechs right? I thought the "But if you really want to go down this route" made that clear in addition to the fact I did not agree with it.

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Originally Posted by sdlister

By all means--you're only arguing against yourself. Being a god of the dead is not equivalent to being a god of death.

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You are splitting hairs here. Either way you end up with a god connected to concept of death.

Oh cool, speculation on the new DPS class. Wonder what they're talking about.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/dcce...itemid=7855872

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Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

Oh cool, speculation on the new DPS class. Wonder what they're talking about.

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Join the Judge club, we have a new theory:
In some localizations, Fandaniel mentionned Zenos weapon as "Archaic".
What's the name of the Empire in FF XII?
Eeeh? Eeeeeeh?

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Originally Posted by Karl0217

Considering how I am using Gaius firing off a new ability called Yellow Death in cutscene along with fact that Gaius had a skull faced helmet as supporting evidence I would say that the question whither a class with death themed armor and death themed abilities instead of a scythe is a real possibility is very relevant.

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I thought you were just throwing the idea of another potential job out there aside from the Garlean theme. I'll reiterate that I'm fairly confident yellow death was only included as flavor because of Caesar's sword later going by the same name.

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Originally Posted by Karl0217

You do realize that was the same logic you are using for the shirts meaning scythes applied to the Reaper mechs right? I thought the "But if you really want to go down this route" made that clear in addition to the fact I did not agree with it.

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You misunderstand me: the magitek reaper as a link to a job is ridiculous logic. I've already explained why.

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Originally Posted by Karl0217

You are splitting hairs here. Either way you end up with a god connected to concept of death.

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No I'm not. You originally claimed Hades was the Greco-Roman god of death. You didn't say "a Greek god connected to the concept of death", and you've slowly been rewording your stance through the last few replies instead of just admitting that you didn't know that. That's why I said in another post that I agree this point isn't headed anywhere productive.

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Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

Oh cool, speculation on the new DPS class. Wonder what they're talking about.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/dcce...itemid=7855872

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What a mood XD. On one hand prediction thread is "active" but it's really just going in a circle since the same things are literally being said.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

Join the Judge club, we have a new theory:
In some localizations, Fandaniel mentionned Zenos weapon as "Archaic".
What's the name of the Empire in FF XII?
Eeeh? Eeeeeeh?

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Stop this XD

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Originally Posted by sdlister

....

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Either way hades isn't a good example for a Garlean based job since he wouldn't be able to display any magic as all since Garleans can't magic. You'd have a better time connecting the job to azem with their closer connection to death and have it be from Ilsabard in general.

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Originally Posted by sdlister

No I'm not. You originally claimed Hades was the Greco-Roman god of death. You didn't say "a Greek god connected to the concept of death", and you've slowly been rewording your stance through the last few replies instead of just admitting that you didn't know that. That's why I said in another post that I agree this point isn't headed anywhere productive.

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Are you trying to turn this thread from speculation about the new DPS class into a circular discussion on semantics?

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Originally Posted by Rymi64

What a mood XD. On one hand prediction thread is "active" but it's really just going in a circle since the same things are literally being said.

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I love speculation discussions and actually was having a good time looking through the thread, until recently.

Best part of speculation threads are reading the theories that sound like they could be right. Reading about in-game lore that backs up what somebody thinks, reading about what people think that job will feel like. Multipage discussions about how it can't or won't be something isn't fun. It just kills the mood and hype behind the topic. People want to hear about what it can be, not about what it can't be. The thread would be better if people here took improv/acting lessons. You never respond to someone with a "No", always respond with "Yes and...".

If it's not likely, post something that you think is more likely and back it up, or, just act like it is likely and start discussing what a class like that would play like. Nobody is going to lose anything if it's wrong, and nobody is going to gain anything by being right. The discussion around speculation is ultimately the fun part and that part is being drained dry.


That being said; A scythe wielding class, are we suspecting it will play like Sice? It gains some resource by dealing damage (with a bonus from killing an enemy?) Will it build up resources or buff stacks and lose them if it gets hit? How will it be different or similar to the DRG?

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Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

The discussion around speculation is ultimately the fun part and that part is being drained dry.

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I think this is an issue of perspective. Discussing the likelihood of theories and narrowing down the options is what's fun to me. I like solving the puzzle rather than imagining what the puzzle could look like once it's solved. For someone just arriving and reading it though, it probably just looks obnoxious and tedious, so I get where you're coming from.

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Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

That being said; A scythe wielding class, are we suspecting it will play like Sice? It gains some resource by dealing damage (with a bonus from killing an enemy?) Will it build up resources or buff stacks and lose them if it gets hit? How will it be different or similar to the DRG?

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I think you're on to something with that first part. It could function similarly to how Sole Survivor worked for DRK but balanced around a job, where there was a status effect that granted you MP and HP for either letting the timer run out or killing the enemy you marked (with a bonus for the latter). It might also get something along the lines of Mercy Stroke--that is, an attack that does more damage (and may only be available) when an enemy's health is low.

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Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

That being said; A scythe wielding class, are we suspecting it will play like Sice? It gains some resource by dealing damage (with a bonus from killing an enemy?) Will it build up resources or buff stacks and lose them if it gets hit? How will it be different or similar to the DRG?

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Job gauges that build up from damage for melee classes currently in-game are either increased via auto-attacks (Ninja, Paladin) or increased via successful combo actions (Warrior, Samurai, Dragoon). More then likely such a class would build up resources from successfully executing a combo with possible positional requirements like Samurai. I also doubt it would lose its stacks or see its job gauge decreased when it suffers damage. Many raid and dungeon bosses have arena wide AoE attacks were damage to the entire party cannot be avoided. A DPS job that loses resources and buff stacks when taking damage would lose a lot of appeal to the majority of the player base the minute one of those AoE attacks fired.

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Originally Posted by Karl0217

I also doubt it would lose its stacks or see its job gauge decreased when it suffers damage. Many raid and dungeon bosses have arena wide AoE attacks were damage to the entire party cannot be avoided. A DPS job that loses resources and buff stacks when taking damage would lose a lot of appeal to the majority of the player base the minute one of those AoE attacks fired.

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It could still work if you had a MNK style move that ate all of your resource for big damage based on how much of said resource you consumed.
Give them a way to use it before the raidwides.

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Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

-snip-

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I can't say anything about sice and how they could put her gameplay into 14 but I can say what I would want, which is to have a melee that actually casts spells and not just has cast times (sorry sam). I would also want it to have a pet that's purely aesthetic but attacks when you attack for the perception of a joint attack and helps you cast spells. I have no basis for this. purely what I would like. It could be like ff4 golbez (dissidia nt version) but with a scythe. Dissent have to have a dragon though. That's kinda stepping on dragoons toes.