Yoshi P to Mr.Happy "Heal DPS is not mandatory and no expectation for Healer to DPS!"

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Originally Posted by Greedalox

Are you intentionally disregarding obvious hyperbole to attempt to come out on top or are you dense? Seriously, it's oozing how blatant it is.

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I'm not disregarding nor am I dense. If the other person comment was an exaggeration then I take my comment back.

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Originally Posted by Khaidal

In a way they did. They posted a video to them healing a 37 minute long Antitower where they only healed.

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where??????????? i need see this

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Originally Posted by Khaidal

In a way they did. They posted a video to them healing a 37 minute long Antitower where they only healed.

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YOU'RE JOKING. PLS

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

I'm not disregarding nor am I dense. If the other person comment was an exaggeration then I take my comment back.

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So you're dense. When people are saying AFK healing, they're not literally AFK and they are healing... when it's required (Read as: a few times).

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

Nobody was telling anyone how to play their role. Everyone was having fun. That is how I prefer to play PUG content.

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It's 5 AM, so not going to watch whole 40 mins - but I did notice you throwing few Aero and Aero II now and then. Quite many unused GCD's and some over-healing, tho.

With Cleric Stance changes coming in about a week, it's going to be even easier to throw your Aero since you don't need to activate Cleric Stance first.

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Originally Posted by Greedalox

I hate to drag old threads into this, but it's kinda funny how you bring up obnoxious trolling when you told everyone that Regen is a spell only to be used by tanks who ask for it because they'll have trouble battling you for threat with it up and you not DPS'ing still.

Girl.

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That didn't come out of nowhere.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ler-cast-regen (note 2013)

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The different healing powers have different enmity mods. Regen has an enmity modifier of 1. Cure has an enmity modifier of .5. Cure II and a lot of the bigger heals have an enmity modifier of .8.

Barring Provoke on a target that you have absolutely no threat on while someone else has a crapton, Medica II is the highest enmity generating power *in the game*: it'll hit 8 targets for a potency 200 heal at a .8 modifier and then tick for 500 more over 15 seconds at a modifier of 1. That's 5280 enmity as spell potency *from a single 3 second cast*.

No healer should cast Regen or Medica II *any time* close to an add spawning: 10 seconds before and after a new enemy enters combat is Medica II/Regen no-time. If a healer casts either of those spells during that time, that healer better expect to take more than a few hits to the face by ripping aggro off of the tank, regardless of how good the tank is at generating aggro. Even Shroud of Saints isn't going to do enough a lot of the time: they simply generate *too much enmity* for a tank to rip back.

Most of the time that a healer rips aggro from a tank, it's not the tank's fault: healing generates aggro *really* efficiently, especially when it's AoE healing. A healer that heals indiscriminately is going to give even an *amazing* tank a helluva time.

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Ama, Illyria, here you go.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

This is how I play the game:
https://youtu.be/QhWxJ_glQoY

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

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While I said it's fine for a healer to heal. There is a major difference when a tank knows an attack that is coming up that would most likely kill him and he does nothing to even try to avoid it.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

That didn't come out of nowhere.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ler-cast-regen (note 2013)

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It came from here

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

And yet, look at what thread we're in. Bad advice stays bad advice and isn't stricken from experience once something changes. My experience has been don't cast regen unless the tank asks for it or the debuffs are stacking and can't be Esuna'd away. I've neither hand complaints or suggestions about regen use except for the occasional tank that has mistaken me for a newbie. But as I said, experience shows what Regen is for. It's not something you must cast constantly like some would have you believe. There is a reason that Cure -> Cure II -> Cure III combo exists, and people don't use it.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

this is how I play the game:.

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The irony really. You tell people are toxic and needs to shut up. You tell everyone they are elitist brats, yet you play the pure healer class in the game and not a single regen on tank. You just played your own game really and if you look at this link You are spamming cure 2 on tank. If you only had regen on a cure 1 would been just fine. Over healing plus over using MP. I can see why you dont have ''no downtime'' when you clearly miss the best skill on WHM, regen. Seriously, no regen and you act like you can talk over everyone else in this thread? I just snorted tbh.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

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I shouldn't be surprised. Why are you healing a tank who has 99% of their health? You do realize the vast majority of your Cures were literally worthless, yes? That Dark Knight had 30,000 HP. A healer of any kind there is a complete waste of MP, especially since Asylum and Regen can handle it. All you've done now is demonstrate for us all what we already knew: you have no idea how to heal efficiently. So kindly stop lecturing everyone.

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Originally Posted by Greedalox

So you're dense. When people are saying AFK healing, they're not literally AFK and they are healing... when it's required (Read as: a few times).

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So I'm dense for simply misunderstanding, glad we got that settled~

Edit: I also realized I got myself dragged into this yet again..now I see why this goes on forever.

Ha ha ha.
I was so right with when I said non-dps healer don't even heal correctly.

And then they even want to teach us how the game works now and what we should do.
GUYS this is terrible.

All you knew until now was a lie! Take advices from those 100% healer, they are the best.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

This does not put the same effort as the other 2 roles, You ask more from your DPS then tank/healer, why?

Also here is a link for everyone to solve this pure healer vs DPS healer once in for all:
https://youtu.be/SQoA_wjmE9w?t=21

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it is not asking more, it is the job

Tank job, basic is to keep aggro, position correctly and use CD at right time

Healer job is to keep everyone alive, prepare for big heal, remove debuff

DPS job is to maximize their output

DPS using 1,1,1 is like Heal giving only cure I, not removing debuff or tank using 1 skill to build aggro and not using def CD

eventually it is just a point of view, how to define their role, you can have your view, he could have his, and she have hers

there are no ending, no right or wrong

again, if player have requirement for specific role, a premade party is always an option

I do welcome tank who dance, healer who put out DPS, dps who use utility, but when i queue DF, i have my expectation on the minimum requirement

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

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I shouldn't be surprised. Why are you healing a tank who has 99% of their health? You do realize the vast majority of your Cures were literally worthless, yes? That Dark Knight had 30,000 HP. A healer there is a complete waste of MP, especially since Asylum and Regen can handle it. All you've done now is demonstrate for us all what we already knew: you have no idea how to heal efficiently. So kindly stop lecturing everyone.

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link No regen, cure 2 spam, no asylum and no assize.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

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I shouldn't be surprised. Why are you healing a tank who has 99% of their health? .

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None of you had enough time to watch it. So please, I posted it knowing full well the trolls would use it as ammo, but felt that nobody had posted any video of people having fun.

http://i.imgur.com/LTQKuYH.png

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

None of you had enough time to watch it.

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Did you magically become competent after 3 mins in?

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

That didn't come out of nowhere.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ler-cast-regen (note 2013)

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How weird, my tanks never loose aggro when I use my Regen on them.
Something must be wrong with the game...
I probably shouldn't use Shroud of Saint at the same time as Medica II as well.

Remember your videos your posted?
Regen, Asylyum and you used some cure ! Healing while there are hots active are generating more aggro than if let regen do the work on their own.

Why are you quoting a post of aggro modifier you don't ever apply or understand.

please...

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

I'm not disregarding nor am I dense. If the other person comment was an exaggeration then I take my comment back.

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It was an exageration.

What they mean by "afk healer" is a healer whose activity time is so low that the other players in the team are actually doing two to four times more button pressing.
The "afk healer" isn't doing "nothing" per se, s/he's monitoring player's HP to throw a heal at the very moment they are uncomfortable with the look of their teammate HP bar. Most "pure healer" cast a heal when someone lacks 5-10%HP (generating a good amount of overheal in the process). It's the same exageration when people say that these healers are watching netflix or whatever. It's actually not the case (at least, not in a general meaning) and everyone knows it. But their activity time is so low that people started making jokes about the fact that "they must be doing something else, right? No one can remain inactive/passive during these long periods of time without doing something else in at the same time, can they?"

These healers players are bad. Most of their time is spent staring at some gauges that barely move.
So, what people are asking is that these players start to capitalize on that time these healers spend doing mostly nothing, and throw some damage skills in there. Especially since Stormblood will make that a really easy thing to do.

That's all there is to it. Really.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

link No regen, cure 2 spam, no asylum and no assize.

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/cries

It got worse! I stopped after the first two pulls. I would so annoyed on DRK because sh'e liable to rip aggro if you drop tank stance with the amount of overhealing, especially if there's Medica II spamming.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

None of you had enough time to watch it. So please, I posted it knowing full well the trolls would use it as ammo, but felt that nobody had posted any video of people having fun.

http://i.imgur.com/LTQKuYH.png

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

link No regen, cure 2 spam, no asylum and no assize.

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Yes I did, no regen on tank and cure 2 spam.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

While I said it's fine for a healer to heal. There is a major difference when a tank knows an attack that is coming up that would most likely kill him and he does nothing to even try to avoid it.

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Apperently a healers job is to keep people alive correct? Just like a tanks main job is to keep aggro his is primary job, correct? Why do you expect a tank to use his cd when it's outside his main duty? You clearly expect him to use his tool but yet you don't like people expect you to contribute as much to the group. Just healing means nothing, you can spam cure 2 all day, doesn't make you great or any resourceful at all.

We understand and accept that Healer DPS is not mandatory.

By the same token, heal-idle healers must also understand and accept that giving comms or positions in statics to the heals-idle playstyle is not mandatory.

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Originally Posted by Greedalox

Did you magically become competent after 3 mins in?

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This. I couldn't for the life of me watch more than 5 minutes of her video.

She is so bad is causes me physical pain.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

/cries

It got worse! I stopped after the first two pulls. I would so annoyed on DRK because sh'e liable to rip aggro if you drop tank stance with the amount of overhealing, especially if there's Medica II spamming.

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Be glad you did. The Calcabrina fight drove me bonkers.

https://youtu.be/QhWxJ_glQoY?t=34m3s

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Originally Posted by Fyce

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I figured that out after the other person just went to insulting instead of simply stating it was an exaggeration. I understand what you are saying, but the way many are doing it here isn't going to make someone dps while healing. Insulting people isn't really a great way to get a point across, nor is generalizing them. Many factors can go into why that healer isn't dpsing. But many just jump to the "They are lazy" quote. Maybe they are not comfortable at the moment. That's how I was before I started doing it. I was uncomfortable, I was afraid. But people helped me ease my way into it. Fast forward to now and I'm stance dancing and enjoying it. I do offer the option of dpsing to other healers and if they want, I tell them exactly what I was told when I was starting.

Anyways, thanks for being civilized and not insulting. It actually makes the topic feel more like a discussion and not a all out war.

Guys here is a link from when the dungeon is actually new and was expert roulette.
Link And the tank isn't even in tank stance like in their video, there is aoe coming and I still don't heal it since I already controlled it by medica 2 and regen on MT.
To compare to the other person link

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

Insulting people isn't really a great way to get a point across, nor is generalizing them. Many factors can go into why that healer isn't dpsing. But many just jump to the "They are lazy" quote. Maybe they are not comfortable at the moment. That's how I was before I started doing it. I was uncomfortable, I was afraid. But people helped me ease my way into it. Fast forward to now and I'm stance dancing and enjoying it. I do offer the option of dpsing to other healers and if they want, I tell them exactly what I was told when I was starting.

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if everyone in forum so rational like your comment
these kind of thread will never fill up the first page of the forum
and the two side would probably never ran into a war like what we have now

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

Guys here is a link from when the dungeon is actually new and was expert roulette.
Link And the tank isn't even in tank stance like in their video, there is aoe coming and I still don't heal it since I already controlled it by medica 2 and regen on MT.
To compare to the other person link

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She will say you are one of those "lazy healers that spam Regen and Medica II and then complain there is nothing to do".

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Originally Posted by TheAngelneer

She will say you are one of those "lazy healers that spam Regen and Medica II and then complain there is nothing to do".

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That last medica spam on last boss when both dps trapped in the doll... no medica 2 either. Just medica 1 spam all the time.

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Originally Posted by Khaidal

Be glad you did. The Calcabrina fight drove me bonkers.

https://youtu.be/QhWxJ_glQoY?t=34m3s

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x2 DPS inside the doll and guess what happens... My own version of contribution. Link
And I didn't spam medica 1 ;) dw. Another link...Me dpsing while aoe is up, while her version spams medica 1.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

That last medica spam on last boss when both dps trapped in the doll... no medica 2 either. Just medica 1 spam all the time.

x2 DPS inside the doll and guess what happens... My own version of contribution. Link
And I didn't spam medica 1 ;) dw.

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You also didn't spam medica 1 with a party member out of range.

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Originally Posted by Khaidal

Ama, Illyria, here you go.

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LAMO! the drk is in the range of ilevel 260 and the brd is i270 or i268-i270 The only 2 in min entry gear was the drg and healer but since the brd was clueless on rotations, there was no dps at all and it took 37 mins.. just rofl.

Looking closer I would guess the drk is pure i270 gear with i255 weapon

There is no way a party like that should take 37 minutes to clear that. my god. So much overhealing rofl, and this is the person saying pure healing has no downtime....
I guess 37 min runs is the norm when no one bothers to AoE dps.

KisaiTenshi , know how I know the gear levels of your party? I am observant, I know what the norm tends to be for a given job. Also the brd had the glaring 275 relic, that is hard to miss, you where acting like all 4 where min level enter when it was really 2 people that over geared but clueless while the other 2 members was min level entry and clueless how to play.

I carry crap like this and I never break the mid 20's because I am healing DPS or know what the hell I am doing on SMN. Also looks like you are not a pure clicker:
https://youtu.be/eC8PuW58I-M?t=108

I think it is a pure joke a pure clicker has more observational skills then you and can tell what is going on, while outperforming you in healing and healing DPS.

You do realize if you push Yoshi too far, he can simply make content so heal intensive that you can't dps or even remove the ability to dps in instances of 4 or more players.

This whole debate on Healer DPS is getting more intense than the hatred between the Alliance and Horde in Warcraft.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

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Most of us are actually okay with bad/new players, on the only condition that they seek to improve themselves.

The reason why people start become aggressive comes from the "pure healers" who defend their view with arguments such as "it's not my role, so I won't do it". It means that these players are actually aware of the possibility, and deliberatly choose not to.
Since it's disrespectful to the other players, people on the forums will voice their anger at these type of entitled and selfish behaviors, especially since these healers absolutly don't want to make any kind of compromise, or ignore any argument or proof thrown their way.

In short terms, they made the deliberate choice to be a burden on their team while refusing any kind of self improvement, and a lot of people are not okay with that.

So, as I said, when you start hitting a brick wall over and over again, you'll probably start to lose your temper too.
That's where the over saturation of sarcasm, exageration and even insults come from.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

You do realize if you push Yoshi too far, he can simply make content so heal intensive that you can't dps

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You mean Yoshi would make both sides happy? Everyone wants more casual damage output because as it stands- there's barely any.

Can people be honest here, which healer would you rather have in group, me or the other? Its a legit question, since you both now seen how both plays too.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

You do realize if you push Yoshi too far, he can simply make content so heal intensive that you can't dps or even remove the ability to dps in instances of 4 or more players.

This whole debate on Healer DPS is getting more intense than the hatred between the Alliance and Horde in Warcraft.

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If he does that many people will cry out against it.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

In case you missed it: https://gyazo.com/98782ffaec914d7f9ff844cb65733676 Look mom and dad! I dps while there is aoe!!!

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Lies! Shenanigans! What madness is this? *Head asplodes*

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Originally Posted by Fyce

..

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Interesting point..I didn't look at it that way.

Edit: But also, I do hope that eventually have more patience. I know things can be frustrating, but keep a cool head can make things better I believe.

Having absolutely nothing I care to contribute, I ask only this:

Where in the bloody heck are all of you finding these amazing tanks/dps who are so skilled at mitigating damage and dodging avoidables, that the healers can do nothing for a full minute or more? Seriously. Even when I'm dpsing as a healer, I always seem to be healing at least once every thirty seconds (if the party is skilled).

Alternatively, where the heck are all of you amazing tanks/dps who are skilled at mitigating damage and dodging avoidables, the healers cannot not move and must therefore be spamming the jump button? (I can count, on one hand, the number of non-dpsing jumping healers.)

I really really want to know where to find this magical land: Where the tanks and DPS are so perfect in avoiding HP-loss, that the healers literally forget how to heal for 60+ seconds and have their brain transform into a sugar-high of spacebar spam.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

That last medica spam on last boss when both dps trapped in the doll... no medica 2 either. Just medica 1 spam all the time.

x2 DPS inside the doll and guess what happens... My own version of contribution. Link

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To be honest, the link should have been extended by another 2-3 seconds so that people will actually see the dolls being broken INSTANTLY by the White Mage. Knowing some people here, the point will fly over their heads otherwise.