Cash shop confirmed

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

You like the game, so you want them to implement something that will hurt players, and then the game? ok.

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Apparently, the point hasn't just gone over your head, it went screeching past you while breaking the sound barrier until it crashed and burned a few miles down wind and you still didn't see it.

So I skimmed through most of this thread as I seemed to be reading the same argument over and over again. I don't believe this point was made out too well.

If you make a cash shop for vanity. Are you not simply devaluing the crafters in the game? Nearly most things you need crafters for are things that would be okay to put in a cash shop. Furniture and vanity clothes.

Items that are time sink and gil sink like materia and unspoiled nodes.

They have been in trying to figure out ways to take care of the Atma outcry. Again, I forsee a dual option of either timesink, gilsink, or walletsink coming out of that alone.

In the end though, I am bias on the matter and am in the camp that 'as long as I can work for it in game cause sub' So yay my silly two cents.

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Originally Posted by Dwill

They aren't ripping anyone off because they aren't forcing anyone to buy them. Square Enix is a For Profit company, what's hard to grasp that a company that was in the red wants to get some more funds by providing a service that plenty of people want.

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Whenever a mount or minion was announced and released I've been able to get it in game wether I did or not, I was able to for 4 years in this games life. Even after all the changes to 2.0 they did not resort to a cash shop. Only after they have succeeded they are doing this. Not to keep the game alive but for their own greed since they already passed the difficult part.
Now there will be some mounts and minions that I will not have any way too gain unless I pay them more money.
They took away something I was able to have before and making me pay for it. That's ring ripped off.

And I don't remember anyone wanting a cash shop. If I ever saw a thread about a cash shop most were glad that one wasn't here

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

Anyone who likes this game is against this kind of cash shop.

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No TRUE Scotsman would ever endorse such a thing.

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Originally Posted by gorror

The decision to add a cash shop is very anti-consumer, as a consumer you should be against such a change.

Let me ask you a question, would you rather pay $5 for a mount or earn the same mount in game?

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Pay the $5, its not like the mounts are anything special game mechanic wise anyway. A chocobo is no different then magitek which is no different then primal mounts which are no different then the free veteran reward mounts. Its all vanity.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

Yeah players are so hurt without the Sleipnir mount. I think without the Sleipnir mount I am unable to clear the Final Coil of Bahamut.

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It hurts players when they move content from the game behind a paywall. Is not the importance of the game itself, is not its effect, is the fact of it being behind a paywall, be it a mount or a super i200 weapon, the fact of said content not being in the game and being behind a paywall is what hurts players. You know what other company does this kind of thing? Electronic Arts. And that alone should speak of the kind of market strategy SE is aiming to.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

To me it makes the game better and more enjoyable if I can spend $5 to get a mount that I really want. Instead of spending 200+ hours trying to farm it and have nothing to show for it due to 1% drop rates and losing the rolls.

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But hides that content from players who dont want to pay. And more important, it stops being content in game, cause is not part of the game paying to get something, you are not facing a boss, you are gathering or grinding, you are not PLAYING for the reward, you are paying. Which makes it unfair for players who, as strage as it sounds, want to play to get their rewards on the game.

And as i said, the ideal should be that said mounts were added to BOTH, game and cash shop, but with a time frame of diference, that creates a incentive for developers to keep developing FOR the game and have new items in the future to sell on the cash shop. Everyone wins: Players dont get content locked behind a paywall, developers get extra monies with time as they keep creating vanity content and unlucky players just have to wait for a certain period of time (a reasonable ammout to leave the feeling of reward and achivement intact) to get that mount they want so bad.

As i said, cash shop exclusive content will only hurt the game.

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Originally Posted by Aylis

Pay the $5, its not like the mounts are anything special game mechanic wise anyway. A chocobo is no different then magitek which is no different then primal mounts which are no different then the free veteran reward mounts. Its all vanity.

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I agree with Aylis. I don't give two goobue droppings about how I get the mount. If I want it enough, I'll pay for it. If I don't want it enough, I don't pay for it. But, frankly, between $5 or farming Titan EX a couple hundred times, I think I would rather sacrifice the $5. I'll skip buying myself a lemonade on the way to class for a couple of days or something.

I hope they take a page out of Blizzard's book and donate the first few weeks or so of pet/mount sales to charity.

That's a pretty awesome thing to do I think. Get yourself a shiny thing and help those in need!

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Originally Posted by Mirili

No TRUE Scotsman would ever endorse such a thing.

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I like you.

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Originally Posted by IveraIvalice

Whenever a mount or minion was announced and released I've been able to get it in game wether I did or not, I was able to for 4 years in this games life. Even after all the changes to 2.0 they did not resort to a cash shop. Only after they have succeeded they are doing this. Not to keep the game alive but for their own greed since they already passed the difficult part.
Now there will be some mounts and minions that I will not have any way too gain unless I pay them more money.
They took away something I was able to have before and making me pay for it. That's ring ripped off.

And I don't remember anyone wanting a cash shop. If I ever saw a thread about a cash shop most were glad that one wasn't here

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Let me open with this: Square Enix is a public company. Their whole financial records are online for anyone who has the internet and 5 minutes of times. Go see how well their past business model was for them then come talk about greed. Which is kind of hypocritical of you seeing as you say you'll always take the free stuff and get in a fit when people are charging you for their time spent developing a product.

By the way, some people like myself or people I know of can never get the elemental horses from the primals because to an excessively low drop rates which our schedule does not allow to farm. So answer me this champ, what's the difference between someone who can sink in hours into the game to farm something but can't afford the cash shop's horses or someone who can afford the cash shop's horse but can't farm for hours on end ?

[QUOTE=Dwill;2516392
By the way, some people like myself or people I know of can never get the elemental horses from the primals because to an excessively low drop rates which our schedule does not allow to farm. So answer me this champ, what's the difference between someone who can sink in hours into the game to farm something but can't afford the cash shop's horses or someone who can afford the cash shop's horse but can't farm for hours on end ?[/QUOTE]

The diference is that one is PLAYING. The other is PAYING. And thats a really big diference. Games are made to be played not payed. If you dont have the time and want a shortcut, you should reconsider your hobbies cause gaming is obviusly not for you.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

To me it makes the game better and more enjoyable if I can spend $5 to get a mount that I really want. Instead of spending 200+ hours trying to farm it and have nothing to show for it due to 1% drop rates and losing the rolls.

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Not to play devil's advocate here, but you do realize that SE is keenly aware of this reality, and is in fact creating the very market that you appear to be a member of? After all, there's no logical reason for them to have set the drop rate at such an absurdly low level. Bad design should not be fixed by us paying additional money.

There are valid reasons to defend the presence of a cash shop, but this isn't one of them.

I just wonder how ppl come to the conclusion that the "Vanity" Shop will be the cause of 0 Vanity Items from the game itself.
For me it's a reason that we even get more Vanity Items than it was planned.

It's like you guys see the Dooms Days behind the Mog Shop and ignore the 99% other Awesome things they Announced.<_<

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Originally Posted by Amaret

I just wonder how ppl come to the conclusion that the "Vanity" Shop will be the cause of 0 Vanity Items from the game itself.
For me it's a reason that we even get more Vanity Items than it was planned.

It's like you guys see the Dooms Days behind the Mog Shop and ignore the 99% other Awesome things they Announced.<_<

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Yep, the game will die with a cash shop. It will hurt the game so much. Nevermind the hype for 2.4 (with new recipes announced), Gold Saucer, Wedding and Heavensward. Nope, cash shop = hurts game.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

The diference is that one is PLAYING. The other is PAYING. And thats a really big diference. Games are made to be played not payed. If you dont have the time and want a shortcut, you should reconsider your hobbies cause gaming is obviusly not for you.

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Swing and a miss. Last I checked, I was playing close to 25-30 weeks but never in long spree because of how my real life is scheduled therefore I can't commit to farm parties. Wanna try again champ ?

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

The diference is that one is PLAYING. The other is PAYING. And thats a really big diference. Games are made to be played not payed. If you dont have the time and want a shortcut, you should reconsider your hobbies cause gaming is obviusly not for you.

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Now I have to get into this fray. are you seriously saying that if someone has a real life job, and therefore can afford to pay for both a subscription and a little extra for a mount, they should not be gaming? FFXIV would not exist if that were the case.

Get a little perspective, please. Not all of us work part time. I get an average of 2 hours a day to play, while working two jobs to afford both rent and this sub. I cant get a primal mount, because I cant afford the time to farm it. You just said that I shouldn't play this game. if you were the president of SE, congrats, you just lost 3/4 of your subs.

Yoshi has previously said that the game was made to be accessible to casual players, ones with money to pay, to keep servers running. Cash shop is a realization of this.

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Originally Posted by Amaret

I just wonder how ppl come to the conclusion that the "Vanity" Shop will be the cause of 0 Vanity Items from the game itself.

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That isnt the issue. The issue is cash shop exclusive content and content not being on the game and being behind a paywall. Slepneir mount is CONFIRMED cash shop exclusive, only those who pay, considering the price of things, 20 USD will have access to said mount, other players no.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

That isnt the issue. The issue is cash shop exclusive content and content not being on the game and being behind a paywall. Slepneir mount is CONFIRMED cash shop exclusive, only those who pay, considering the price of things, 20 USD will have access to said mount, other players no.

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And where is the problem with it? We already had this kind of "trades"?

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Originally Posted by Amaret

I just wonder how ppl come to the conclusion that the "Vanity" Shop will be the cause of 0 Vanity Items from the game itself.
For me it's a reason that we even get more Vanity Items than it was planned.

It's like you guys see the Dooms Days behind the Mog Shop and ignore the 99% other Awesome things they Announced.<_<

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Because Slepnir. I'm not saying there will be 0 vanity items in the game anymore but there will be vanity items in the Cash Shop that would of otherwise just been in the game. Slepnir has set the precedent for this as I explained here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...49#post2515049.

And that should be a hint to SE how worried players are. Without the Cash Shop announcement Fan Fest was amazing. If they ended the Live Letter 10 minutes earlier people on here would be singing praising, except maybe those complaining about Second Coil nerfs.

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Originally Posted by tocsin

I get an average of 2 hours a day to play, while working two jobs to afford both rent and this sub. I cant get a primal mount, because I cant afford the time to farm it. You just said that I shouldn't play this game. if you were the president of SE, congrats, you just lost 2/4 of your subs.

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Sorry, when i said that: What i have been saying is the next:

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

And as i said, the ideal should be that said mounts were added to BOTH, game and cash shop, but with a time frame of diference, that creates a incentive for developers to keep developing FOR the game and have new items in the future to sell on the cash shop. Everyone wins: Players dont get content locked behind a paywall, developers get extra monies with time as they keep creating vanity content and unlucky players just have to wait for a certain period of time (a reasonable ammout to leave the feeling of reward and achivement intact) to get that mount they want so bad.

As i said, cash shop exclusive content will only hurt the game.

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If players cant understand how much of a damge is for us all to have content locked behind a paywall... Sometimes i think they truly deserve the usual kind of treatment they recive from this industry.

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Originally Posted by Amaret

I just wonder how ppl come to the conclusion that the "Vanity" Shop will be the cause of 0 Vanity Items from the game itself.
For me it's a reason that we even get more Vanity Items than it was planned.

It's like you guys see the Dooms Days behind the Mog Shop and ignore the 99% other Awesome things they Announced.<_<

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This obviously was planned though. Setting up a cash shop isn't like turning around a day before the FanFest and deciding then. Careful decisions have to go into how it is implemented, what goes in, pricing etc. So this would have been planned for some time.
The reason there is so much disagreement with it is because of where this can lead to. A lot of players are trying to compare this to Blizzard but fact is, this isn't blizzard and this is not World of Warcraft. We should not settle for another game. I have no doubt they already have planned more items for the cash shop for at least a few months time.

Also, I haven't come across anyone assuming it means there will no longer be vanity items in game. Apart from where this may lead the game in some time, disagreement is generally against the idea of paying for something we already paid for. We paid our subscriptions already, we paid to play, with full access to, this game. What did they spend their time doing with the money we paid them? They structured a cash shop to charge us again.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

And as i said, the ideal should be that said mounts were added to BOTH, game and cash shop

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Thats a very good theory. Though with my experience in games that /have/ offered both a cash shop and an in game alternative to obtaining said items. It often doesn't work as well as it sounds. An item on the cash shop is developed for just that, to sell and make a little extra money. EQ1 had this problem where the in game alternatives were often locked behind far over tuned content challenges making said items near impossible or extremely difficult to obtain near to the point it wasn't worth it for most, people just used the cash shop. In the end that caused more flak against SOE then if they had just left the item on the cash shop and been done with it.

All for at the end of the day of nobody knowing or nobody really caring if did person A do the impossible to get the item in game vs person B who just payed the money on the cash shop.

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Originally Posted by Barboron

. What did they spend their time doing with the money we paid them?

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Considering they just told us that they were short on budget, as a reason why they couldn't give us adequate personal housing, im guessing they overpaid for their QA team to release bug free content or something.

I'am really afraid in what direction this may point.

A vision comes to my mind

Episode 4.0 - A Realm Reborn ... again... (after SE messed up again and everybody left)

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Originally Posted by tocsin

Considering they just told us that they were short on budget, as a reason why they couldn't give us adequate personal housing, im guessing they overpaid for their QA team to release bug free content or something.

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Wow. Do you guys rly believe the 12 bucks you pay in month only goes into development of ff xiv? just wow.

So the whole thing i get is, that ppl are getting buthurt about a vanity item behind a paywall? A thing which existed since day 1 (CE) in FFXIV?
Gonna be fun to see 90% complaining here running around with Sleipnir next week.

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Originally Posted by Dwill

Let me open with this: Square Enix is a public company. Their whole financial records are online for anyone who has the internet and 5 minutes of times. Go see how well their past business model was for them then come talk about greed. Which is kind of hypocritical of you seeing as you say you'll always take the free stuff and get in a fit when people are charging you for their time spent developing a product.

By the way, some people like myself or people I know of can never get the elemental horses from the primals because to an excessively low drop rates which our schedule does not allow to farm. So answer me this champ, what's the difference between someone who can sink in hours into the game to farm something but can't afford the cash shop's horses or someone who can afford the cash shop's horse but can't farm for hours on end ?

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Because it's not free stuff. We already pay for it with a monthly subscription. It's not getting in a fit from someone charging me for their development time. It's getting in a fit for charging me twice. The answer to your question is that even if a person can't farm due to time or unlucky drop rates, it is there for you to obtain. In this way there is no option, there is only one way and it requires more of my hard earned money.

I'm a working man too like most and probly won't ever see those primal mounts but at least I know they are possible to get. I'm not willing to pay twice for something that I used to get for one payment every month. It's not a simple matter of "if you don't like it don't use it" because if I don't use it that's one thing I will never see. And so they simply took away something from me and everyone else that we used to have before
The difference is how much the consumer is paying to get the same thing
There a difference between paying more for convenience and not having something unless you pay more

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Originally Posted by Aylis

Thats a very good theory. Though with my experience in games that /have/ offered both a cash shop and an in game alternative to obtaining said items. It often doesn't work as well as it sounds. An item on the cash shop is developed for just that, to sell and make a little extra money. EQ1 had this problem where the in game alternatives were often locked behind far over tuned content challenges making said items near impossible or extremely difficult to obtain near to the point it wasn't worth it for most, people just used the cash shop. In the end that caused more flak against SOE then if they had just left the item on the cash shop and been done with it.

All for at the end of the day of nobody knowing or nobody really caring if did person A do the impossible to get the item in game vs person B who just payed the money on the cash shop.

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Point in case. Slepnir mount.

Right now:

Cash shop item exclusive, price to determine. Not in game content tho we are paying for it, behind a paywall.

How should be:

Slepnir Mount is added as a reward to X content.
3 months later, it becomes a cash shop alternative.

So content is designed and build for the game, not the cash shop.

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Originally Posted by Riepah

Sadly all it takes is a few people with too much money to throw around to make cash shops a success. No matter how many people you piss of with cash shops, the spending-happy ones will make up for the lost subscriptions. The crappiest F2P games with the craziest rip-off deals can survive ages on a small playerbase, because there just is a fraction of people who'll throw their money at the developers as long as the developers keep taking it.


Someone sitting on their Sleipnir won't be able to think to themselves "I earned this."
They should think "Micro transactions and RMT exist because of people like me."

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100% Agree with this, as a cash shop draws the same crowds as RMTs.

I have no idea why people are so butt hurt about this xD. Cash shop works great in WoW and people buy those mounts or not. What is the big deal to buy older stuff you missed or mounts, i really don't get all this.

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Originally Posted by mekia

I have no idea why people are so butt hurt about this xD. Cash shop works great in WoW and people buy those mounts or not. What is the big deal to buy older stuff you missed or mounts, i really don't get all this.

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Feel free to read some of the posts in the thread and you might begin to understand.

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Originally Posted by Amaret

Wow. Do you guys rly believe the 12 bucks you pay in month only goes into development of ff xiv? just wow.

So the whole thing i get is, that ppl are getting buthurt about a vanity item behind a paywall? A thing which existed since day 1 (CE) in FFXIV?
Gonna be fun to see 90% complaining here running around with Sleipnir next week.

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Pretty much this, nothing to add.

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Originally Posted by mekia

I have no idea why people are so butt hurt about this xD. Cash shop works great in WoW and people buy those mounts or not. What is the big deal to buy older stuff you missed or mounts, i really don't get all this.

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If they put the new race behind a paywall, you would be so willing to accept it? Whats the diference between a race or a mount, both are just "vanity" so it shouldnt be a problem. But it is, why? because is content, and content is supposed to go in the game, not a cash shop. The problem is not the cash shop itself, selling vanity gear, minions and mounts? perfect. But only when they are in game already, cash shop exclusive are a problem.

If you paid the additional 50$ for an OST that's the same as what you have in the game and got a unique minion for it - it's a-ok.

If you just wanna toss 2$ on a unique minion/mount it's bad.

(???)


I think the old event gear being cash shop is just to eliminate vendor and event quest bloat as time progresses - and to make the events free to have a little more of that "one-time-only" participation impact.

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Originally Posted by Fatestorm

Feel free to read some of the posts in the thread and you might begin to understand.

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"I don't have moneyz for Sleipnir" "I'm gonna leave beacause i see the paywall now not like they already did it with cd's" "The next patches only will be for Cash Shop!" "ITS GONNA BE F2P IN FEW MONTHS, I CALL IT NOW!1!!1!11" "It's going to be p2w!" "I pay 12 bucks, the Dev's life belongs to me".

Thats what i read.

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Originally Posted by Amaret

Wow. Do you guys rly believe the 12 bucks you pay in month only goes into development of ff xiv? just wow.

So the whole thing i get is, that ppl are getting buthurt about a vanity item behind a paywall? A thing which existed since day 1 (CE) in FFXIV?
Gonna be fun to see 90% complaining here running around with Sleipnir next week.

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The difference with CE items, artbook, plush moogle and so on is that you get something physical too. Also, considering the CE was also the launch of the game so it would have been initial funding since they wouldn't have had subscriptions. But now we are actually paying them on a monthly basis. SE are throwing out that big 2.5million players number, not us. I would be inclined to believe that's not true though but it's their number.

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Originally Posted by Amaret

"I don't have moneyz for Sleipnir" "I'm gonna leave beacause i see the paywall now not like they already did it with cd's" "The next patches only will be for Cash Shop!" "ITS GONNA BE F2P IN FEW MONTHS, I CALL IT NOW!1!!1!11" "It's going to be p2w!" "I pay 12 bucks, the Dev's life belongs to me".

Thats what i read.

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If that's all you read, then you are not very business orientated. A cash shop proves to be of huge potential for vanity items. If you are going to reply with the "oh, it's just vanity" then you are leaving it safe to assume that the only thing you see doing in this game is raids. Yoshi-p mentioned in previous live letters end-game includes more than raids, it's crafting, gathering, and any other content beyond the concluded story line. To me, this includes vanity items.

Want to say that it's optional? Well....so is coil. Forums are optional too, how about we charge €1 per post?

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Originally Posted by Amaret

"I don't have moneyz for Sleipnir".

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"I dont have times for farm".

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Originally Posted by Amaret

"I don't have moneyz for Sleipnir" "I'm gonna leave beacause i see the paywall now not like they already did it with cd's" "The next patches only will be for Cash Shop!" "ITS GONNA BE F2P IN FEW MONTHS, I CALL IT NOW!1!!1!11" "It's going to be p2w!" "I pay 12 bucks, the Dev's life belongs to me".

Thats what i read.

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Learn to read

The ONLY thing that confuses me about all this is that all this stuff about cash shops has already existed in this game. Ya'll make some convincing points but I think your about a year too late. Retainers is already teetering on the P2W'ish side and fantasia has been around too. You can buy CE's and the OST to get extra stuff not attainable any other way in the game.

It's already here, its been here. Why the sudden QQ?

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Originally Posted by IveraIvalice

Learn to read

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Aww, okay, where is the point i missed?

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Originally Posted by Amaret

"I don't have moneyz for Sleipnir" "I'm gonna leave beacause i see the paywall now not like they already did it with cd's" "The next patches only will be for Cash Shop!" "ITS GONNA BE F2P IN FEW MONTHS, I CALL IT NOW!1!!1!11" "It's going to be p2w!" "I pay 12 bucks, the Dev's life belongs to me".

Thats what i read.

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I wish I could upvote this more. it is useless complaining. actually, the main reason why its going to now 900 posts, is because people who actually want to support the game further than their "server access fee" and their one time payment for all content available at patch 2.0 with real world money that can be useful instead of claiming support with "Play Time" keep supporting it, much to the chagrin of anti-capitalists.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

If they put the new race behind a paywall, you would be so willing to accept it? Whats the diference between a race or a mount, both are just "vanity" so it shouldnt be a problem. But it is, why? because is content, and content is supposed to go in the game, not a cash shop. The problem is not the cash shop itself, selling vanity gear, minions and mounts? perfect. But only when they are in game already, cash shop exclusive are a problem.

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tbh all i read is "i don't have the money to spend on a mount QQ". And those idea's you bring forward are ridiculous. Cash shop works fine in other game people accepted it and fine. And your "IF they" or "MAYBE they" wont fly because you just put the extreme on to this which wont happen. Either buy it or don't.
Not even Blizzard after so many years with cash shop have added nothing but Mounts and some stupid helmets.

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Originally Posted by IveraIvalice

Learn to read

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Maybe learn to understand and not just close yourself up and huddle up in a corner.