Make FFXIV more like FFXI and less like WoW

It sounds like some of you want this:

http://i.imgur.com/BIIPJxU.png

basically people wanted XIV to be little more than a graphical update for XI.

at least that is what it seems like sometimes.

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Originally Posted by JMadFour

basically people wanted XIV to be little more than a graphical update for XI.

at least that is what it seems like sometimes.

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No no.
People want something that expanded on XI. Something that kept the spirit of freeform adventure, where the story and quests work as a strong undercurrent to the environment itself. A place with a sense of danger and mystery. Something that worked working to streamline tedium of XI, while introducing new kinds of content. Something that isn't the same mechanics we've seen for the past decade reworked into a different skin, plus a few minor (but appreciated) novelties.

At least, that's what I would like.

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Originally Posted by Tanama

It sounds like some of you want this:

http://i.imgur.com/BIIPJxU.png

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LMAO did you make this picture? I would so play that! HAHA

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Very very few felt the same as you about FFXIV 1.0. Thus it wasn't viable to keep it alive. It wasn't certain people who couldn't and wouldn't play, it was the vast majority.

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Want to know how I originally felt about 1.0. the game wasn't a complete disaster but it was an extremely unfinished product that needed years of work still and probably shouldn't have been released at all until it was perfected.

Was it as garbage as the majority thought, no not really, just that most people judge something at first glance and it was still in beta phases really. 1.0 was in need of some extreme improvements, in 1.23 we finally got to see alot of the improvements asked for and I don't see ARR as an improvement in the right direction.

I wanted the game to continue to improve just like everyone else but I doubt the majority back then wanted it to play like a world of warcraft clone, that I find hard to believe.

The majority of players who weren't even playing 1.0->1.23 yea I'd say there the ones who wanted it to play like WoW because they obviously didn't care about the game at all and were too busy playing other MMO's.... The other MMO's I tryed and always ditched to go back to FF14 1.23 in hopes that 1.23 would eventually become the game I always hoped it would become.

I never once hoped it would become exactly like the other games I was trying to escape from.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Something that isn't the same mechanics we've seen for the past decade reworked into a different skin, plus a few minor (but appreciated) novelties.

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The mechanics are the last thing I would want to take from FFXI. Broken defense values, Utsusemi tanking, gear swapping, terrible party dynamics, refresh-whoring, gear as an off-on switch instead of being there to enhance what already exists (Aegis, Ochain and Almace). It's the stuff of nightmares and bad design.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

The mechanics are the last thing I would want to take from FFXI. Broken defense values, Utsusemi tanking, gear swapping, terrible party dynamics, refresh-whoring, gear as an off-on switch instead of being there to enhance what already exists (Aegis, Ochain and Almace). It's the stuff of nightmares and bad design.

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Exactly, you just reminded me why I quit 11 and never looked back. Even when 1.0 turned out to be a strait disaster i still refused to go bck to 11.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

The mechanics are the last thing I would want to take from FFXI. Broken defense values, Utsusemi tanking, gear swapping, terrible party dynamics, refresh-whoring, gear as an off-on switch instead of being there to enhance what already exists (Aegis, Ochain and Almace). It's the stuff of nightmares and bad design.

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As much as I hate the spam fest mechanics and repetitive red dot mayhem in ARR this is really a debate about introducing some relative content in relation to the Final Fantasy MMO series and not another overhaul of the games mechanics.

Re introducing some end game content similar to XI and some of the past enjoyed outside world content that FFXIV 1.23 had could easily be done differently to fit ARR's style of combat and mechanics.

Just to add my opinion on XI's mechanics, I have to say I preferred them and I loved Utsusemi tanking, it was all about timing and observation.

The things I would have liked to see improved on with XI's mechanics were perhaps a larger range of skills and abilities, individual limit breaks and better animations but that's about it really, I have always enjoyed the play style in XI alot more than ARR.

For me tho nothing beats 1.0's original system of being able to create your own class, that was ingenious. When they cut the amount of abilities we could make use of in 1.23's update I was disappointed but I didn't expect it to be cut down to virtually nothing in ARR... that is just disgraceful.

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Originally Posted by Vandark

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Wouldn't your time be better spent trying to change FFXI, which is closer to what you want than ARR, back into what you prefer then wastng your time dreaming that they will change FFXIV into something else?

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Originally Posted by Remian

Six player groups grinding in the open world being the only way to progress through the levels combined with it taking a long time to reach level cap was amazing. Get rid of linear questlines, instanced dungeons and fates entirely and just give us that instead. It would open up the game a whole lot and give players a reason to actually go out into the game world to participate in meaningful progression and have fun while doing it.

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I think you want this game to fail giving that idea.

The XP camps would never work in the present market of MMOs. Forced grouping for levelling would bomb faster than APB did.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Wouldn't your time be better spent trying to change FFXI?

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Wouldn't your time be better spent not repeating whats already been explained?

For Example.

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Originally Posted by Vandark

Not really, my problem is no longer with XI my beef is with FFXIV changeing from a game I love into ARR, a game I can no longer relate to.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

The mechanics are the last thing I would want to take from FFXI. Broken defense values, Utsusemi tanking, gear swapping, terrible party dynamics, refresh-whoring, gear as an off-on switch instead of being there to enhance what already exists (Aegis, Ochain and Almace). It's the stuff of nightmares and bad design.

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Which is why I said:

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Something that worked working to streamline tedium of XI, while introducing new kinds of content.

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I don't want the game to be the exact same. I just want concepts and elements of the world design and how lore/quests where presented in, what I would argue, a more natural and open way.

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Originally Posted by Reslin

You have to play something to realize if it's good or bad in this day and age with youtube and live streams?

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You may be able to tell whether a game is fun or not FOR YOU, but you can't judge for other people because everyone enjoy different kind of fun.

If I watch someone play chess I'd just see people face each other for 2hr, moving pieces on a board after 20 min of thinking. Seems fun? Hell no. But plenty of people enjoyed it.

FFXI is fun when you have in-game connections and invested at least 400+ hours(or maybe even years) of gameplay. The fun of playing FFXI doesn't come by just watching someone else play it, because you're not the one having the connection nor invested the time.

Your statment about 1.23 is purely subjective. The better way to say it is "1.23 doesn't seem more fun than 1.0 to me, because of <insert w/e you see in a video that you find you may not enjoy it>", not "1.23 isn't better than 1.0 because I've seen a video".

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Originally Posted by Reslin

Also if someone watches basketball and can't stand it. Chances are they won't like playing it either. Just saying. My opinion matters at least as much as your opinion that you enjoyed it. Which to you obviously doesn't mean anything either.

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Jumping into conclusion huh?

I can't stand watching other people playing basketball(or most of the sports). But I play basketball pretty often if my friends are playing it and I often have fun. Playing basketball myself is more fun than watching other people play.

I personally disliked FFXIV's original version, which mainly had to with the control scheme and the fact that I couldn't even play it on my computer whatsoever despite being able to play a lot of other MMOs on the market, so I never bought into it. That's my viewpoint on the subject and I'm sticking to it.

As for whether v1.0 was better than v1.23 was better than 2.0/2.1... that's all conjecture and opinion. The fact of the matter is that SE felt 1.0 was unsatisfactory, so it released 1.23, which they felt was also unsatisfactory, so they released 2.0.

Are there some features they could salvage from earlier installments? Of course! But we must be reasonable about what can and cannot be salvaged. To make a guess on what is or isn't reasonable, look at the changes made between 2.0 and 2.1. If you honestly think that an old feature could be renovated with the same or less amount of work than a single feature added from 2.1, then I'm pretty sure that's reasonable. If an entire patch would have to be devoted to renovations, then it would be unreasonable.

Also, debating about which version of the game was better is utter nonsense. What does anyone hope to accomplish by doing that? It's far better to open one's mind and understand why someone likes something you don't without throwing around harsh, closed-minded criticisms like a bunch of children arguing whether or not Batman could beat the Power Rangers. It's some stupid pride-based assertion of dominance rubbish that is totally unnecessary in this day and age.

Anyway, onto the topic at hand, I like FFXIV the way it is. I never had a fair chance to enjoy the classic FFXIV, but this new version is absolutely wonderful. To me, it isn't a boring game at all and I always have something to do, especially with 2.1 giving us dailies, which make the Myth grind go much faster, which causes me to not feel the grind so much. I like that. I never thought it felt like WoW. I've given WoW an honest chance to, well, "wow" me at least three times in three different eras of the game (Vanilla, Crusade, and Wrath), and each time it got boring by Level 20 and I quit. This game didn't ever get boring for me until about Level 40 when the momentum of the story quest started to grind to a halt. But that was in 2.0, not even 2.05, when that happened. Now, that's not even as much of an issue as it was.

I just want this game to stay as it is. None of that leaning towards one MMO or the other. FFXI has a very different system to FFXIV, which in turn has a very different system from WoW. FFXIV 2.0 did borrow a lot of elements from a lot of other games, true, but I think they work well together. I mean sure, housing's still kind of a mess right now, but that'll get straightened out in time. I just think comparing FFXIV to WoW or FFXI is to demean the value of the game as its own property. Like I said, if there are specific features that you thought were good, then lay those out plain and simple! Saying stuff like "You should make FFXIV more like this MMO I also like" is kinda silly, as that implies that you'd be happier playing that other MMO. On the other hand, if you said "I want this feature in FFXIV because I saw it in this MMO I like and I think it'd be a cool addition to this game" or something along those lines, that'd be fine.

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Originally Posted by Vandark

Actually... all that content was already planed, even titan was already planed by the original producer, if you own the bonus CD given to you in the original FF14 1.0 limited edition, you would be surprised to see just how much was already intended.

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They also had the game set up where you could either battle the mobs, or be on a crafting/gathering class and parley with them. Imagine playing parley with Titan, how fun.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

They also had the game set up where you could either battle the mobs, or be on a crafting/gathering class and parley with them. Imagine playing parley with Titan, how fun.

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I don't think it was ever intended to let you do primals as them.
Parley sucked, but we really do need more important stuff for the land and hand classes to do.

This game is wonderful! There's no need to mess up a winning formula. Those that disagree are free to leave and play something else. Pretty simple really. :)

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Originally Posted by Laranja

This game is wonderful! There's no need to mess up a winning formula. Those that disagree are free to leave and play something else. Pretty simple really. :)

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Lol wait until you hot lv 50, and then slowly begin to realize things. :P

Winning formula?

When Endgame is so stale that after Tuesday 90% of your member don't bother logging in because (essentially you cleared your weekly caps)

Then no this is not a winning formula

Fail Crafting, Endgame, PvP, etc etc

I still think the armory system is total garbage (outside of PvP Who uses this sh??? system)

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Originally Posted by Kaiser_Rage

Lol wait until you hot lv 50, and then slowly begin to realize things. :P

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Already have. Still can't see what you're whining about.

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Originally Posted by Thunderz

Winning formula?

When Endgame is so stale that after Tuesday 90% of your member don't bother logging in because (essentially you cleared your weekly caps)

Then no this is not a winning formula

Fail Crafting, Endgame, PvP, etc etc

I still think the armory system is total garbage (outside of PvP Who uses this sh??? system)

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And you are both still here. The only thing that is really wrong with this game is the same old whining that you see on just about every game forum. Here's an idea. Why not give the devs some time to actually, you know develop? It's a probably a hard concept to grasp but I'm sure that if you give it long enough you will get it. :P

Honestly the game doesn't feel anything like WoW. WoW has its allience (humans), and orcs (horde) warring all the time open world pvp, 2 faction system. FFXIV has its chocobos, moogles Final Fantasy type story and lore if feels nothing like WoW at all.

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Originally Posted by Laranja

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hmm? deal with it

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Originally Posted by Laranja

Already have. Still can't see what you're whining about.



And you are both still here. The only thing that is really wrong with this game is the same old whining that you see on just about every game forum. Here's an idea. Why not give the devs some time to actually, you know develop? It's a probably a hard concept to grasp but I'm sure that if you give it long enough you will get it. :P

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They had time to develop, and this is the path that they chose. New, shiny, and pretty on the outside, old, dull, and kinda ugly on the inside. Honestly ARR can be summed up to "the least shittiest mmo on the market". The game has no long term appeal, and as much as I want 14 to succeed it just isn't going to if they continue in this direction.

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Originally Posted by Virgil

They had time to develop, and this is the path that they chose. New, shiny, and pretty on the outside, old, dull, and kinda ugly on the inside. Honestly ARR can be summed up to "the least shittiest mmo on the market". The game has no long term appeal, and as much as I want 14 to succeed it just isn't going to if they continue in this direction.

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People seem to forget that we are only 1 major patch in, and even then it was full of content that "should have been" ready to go at launch back in August. In a sense we are still kind of in the game's launch phase. All things considered though they did pretty well in the time they were given to rebuild and re-launch the game, granted that is my opinion.

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even then it was full of content that "should have been" ready to go at launch back in August. In a sense we are still kind of in the game's launch phase.

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This has to be the worst argument i've ever seen in the last few years and that's saying alot considering i read read D3's forum

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Originally Posted by hallena

This has to be the worst argument i've ever seen in the last few years and that's saying alot considering i read read D3's forum

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Not really an argument, just an opinion. Anyway, it might have been a little bit of a stretch, hence the "in a sense" and "kind of", but I will stick by the point I was trying to make as a whole.

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Originally Posted by Laranja

This game is wonderful! There's no need to mess up a winning formula. Those that disagree are free to leave and play something else. Pretty simple really. :)

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I laughed so hard with this...!LOL

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Originally Posted by Gramul

I just want concepts and elements of the world design

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You mean that zones were needlessly barren, making it seem that the only places that had an actual semblance of civilization were the three starter cities, Jeuno and the outlands towns of Mhaura and Selbina? I actually hated that sort of design because it took away what little credibility the three cities had.

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how lore/quests where presented in, what I would argue, a more natural and open way.

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Considering quests in FFXI were less rewarding than anything I've ever seen in an MMO outside of Lineage II, that's not something to really aspire for. XI's sidequests were filler to the main story (as opposed to here, where we are given quests more to help establish setting). We could ask for something totally unrelated (like the Obsidian Arrow quesline), but we already have that in the form of Hildibrand. We could use some more filler quests, I guess.

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Considering quests in FFXI were less rewarding than anything I've ever seen in an MMO outside of Lineage II, that's not something to really aspire for. XI's sidequests were filler to the main story (as opposed to here, where we are given quests more to help establish setting).

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So the rewards like Utsusemi, Sleepga II, AF, Relic Weapon, Opo-Opo Crown and things like where useless? Each of those also had nice story to them.
Not only that, quests gave fame, which lowered the merchants prices in the nation for you. It also opened up more quests.

And I'm not really sure how much the setting is established by go kill x of that. Or we have an infestation of rats.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Considering quests in FFXI were less rewarding than anything I've ever seen in an MMO outside of Lineage II, that's not something to really aspire for. XI's sidequests were filler to the main story (as opposed to here, where we are given quests more to help establish setting). We could ask for something totally unrelated (like the Obsidian Arrow quesline), but we already have that in the form of Hildibrand. We could use some more filler quests, I guess.

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FFXIV's quests in a nut shell

Quest type 1 - Run from A to B talk to B run from B to C talk to C run back to A -> Done
Quest type 2 - Kill these monsters that are easy pray at best run back to A -> Done
Quest type 3 - Run from A to B do an emote Run back to A -> Done
Quest type 4 - Do this dungeon

Leve type 1 -> Run to Leve monsters kill them run back -> Done
Leve type 2 -> Escort by waving at this npc - Done

Main Story Quests, basically the same as the first quest list despite cut scenes and lots of dialog.

My opinion on the quest system in MMO's.
All WoW clones share this same lame pattern of quests, it's no less grindy than partying really except it's tedious, it's slower paced than partying or grinding mobs and much less enjoyable because 90% of the content is done by yourself.

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At least in FFXI the quests involved large scale objectives that required a large team, zones with a sense of danger and some really interactive boss fights.
FFXI's quests made you go on epic adventures and was always for a purpose like unlocking access to new areas or advancing/progressing threw the actual game itself, FFXIV is child's play.
It just depends what your after, are you after an adventure or are you after a face book game?

I felt like the idea of Quests fit better into XI, that XI had it right, because XI eliminated the pointless side of questing which is to level through quests and actually made the quest system a form of unlocking or gaining access to areas, transport or a means of progression within the world. The quests in XI although challenging at times always left a feeling of reward, satisfaction and a memory of the experience.

XI was an experience, XIV is just another wow clone.

What is a WoW clone, a game thats like WoW right?

Not exactly, a WoW clone from what I can see consists of taking small parts from WoW and trying to make it new.

What is bad about this?
Everything!
-They always take the same parts from WoW that people see in every game now and it's seriously getting old.
-They try to revolve there entire game around these small parts that they have taken from WoW creating a very basic world that feels and plays like child play with very little to offer players.
"Theme park MMO"

VS the old FFXI -> Real MMO experience.

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Originally Posted by vasdeferens

1. Incorporate some kind of 4 and/or 8-person party grind option similar to those found in FFXI as an alternative to FATE and dungeon-grinding

2. Rather than Warcraft-esque "raids" like Binding Coil, why not bring back things like Dynamis, Limbus, Salvage, and Nyzul Isle?

3. Bring back BCNM, KSNM, ENM, ZNM, ISNM, etc

4. Make gear with lasting power.

5. FFXIV needs a sense of community.

6. Other honorable mentions include Sky/Sea-type areas that are only reachable after the completion of difficult missions

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[+1]

Yes to this!
If only FFXIV had a little bit of influence that made everything in the FF-Universe work before, there would be life left in the game w/o updates that would make you pull your hairs out our skulls.

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Originally Posted by ufufu

This again? FFXI sucked, let's move past it.

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[-1]

Well, we can all see know where the fail is coming from and why this games is headed down the low road...

:cool:

In conclusion, S-E should be looking for ideas from the community to make the game experience better beyond their own ambitions. Clearly there's more FF-veterans that know what makes a better experience than the common newbie from "that other mmo". I'm not saying they don't have good ideas either but Yoshi-P is still on the players side of the fence, he and the DEVs better be reading this thread.

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Originally Posted by Amberion

So the rewards like Utsusemi, Sleepga II, AF, Relic Weapon, Opo-Opo Crown and things like where useless?

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Utsusemi and Sleepga II are no different from me learning Hallowed Ground at the end of Keeping the Oath. AF was lol-worthy to anyone that knew how the game worked (and story quality varied from job to job. RDM and DRK happened to have barely passable stories, while SCH had one of the better AF stories in the game). Relic Weapon was a long-term project. Opo-Opo Crown should have never existed (same thing goes for the necklace).

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Not only that, quests gave fame, which lowered the merchants prices in the nation for you. It also opened up more quests.

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Aside from vendor price differences, that's no different than quest chains that open up other quests.

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And I'm not really sure how much the setting is established by go kill x of that. Or we have an infestation of rats.

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If you learned absolutely nothing of your city state while doing quests, you weren't reading. And if you learned absolutely nothing about Ishgard during the whole mess in Coerthas, the same applies.

You establish setting by presenting not only the big picture stuff to save the world with, but also little things and actual problems that the people in the region may be having. This can include bandits, rat infestations, recovering stolen goods or even playing the emote game.

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Originally Posted by Vandark

All WoW clones share this same lame pattern of quests, it's no less grindy than partying really except it's tedious, it's slower paced than partying or grinding mobs and much less enjoyable because 90% of the content is done by yourself.

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You say this as if you just discovered something new. Questing manages to hide the grind well enough that you're not bored to tears (if you're actually paying attention and putting the setting together when you read the dialogue), which is what happens when you grind mobs ad nauseum. Worse is that once you're grinding mobs, you end up focusing on efficacy because you want it to end ASAP, which then causes you to urinate on the fun of others because then you start wanting max exp/hour. And that was FFXI leveling in a nutshell, regardless of how you want to paint it.

I'll take proper context and setting (two things FFXIV's quests deliver on) over what you misguidedly call adventure.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

You mean that zones were needlessly barren, making it seem that the only places that had an actual semblance of civilization were the three starter cities, Jeuno and the outlands towns of Mhaura and Selbina? I actually hated that sort of design because it took away what little credibility the three cities had.

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More in the sense that they where dangerous to explore, but there where hidden segments, caves, dungeons, and groves that encouraged you to do so. And most of the time you could do so freely, without having to wait for a full party to join in a timed instance. XIV's environments are beautiful, but there's really not much to them.

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Considering quests in FFXI were less rewarding than anything I've ever seen in an MMO outside of Lineage II, that's not something to really aspire for.

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I personally could not give a single rats ass about the rewards from quests. I liked XI's quests because they where engaging and varied. I enjoyed playing them. They very rarely felt like a chore.
The journey actually was more important than the destination.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

You say this as if you just discovered something new. Questing manages to hide the grind well enough that you're not bored to tears (if you're actually paying attention and putting the setting together when you read the dialogue), which is what happens when you grind mobs ad nauseum. Worse is that once you're grinding mobs, you end up focusing on efficacy because you want it to end ASAP, which then causes you to urinate on the fun of others because then you start wanting max exp/hour. And that was FFXI leveling in a nutshell, regardless of how you want to paint it.

I'll take proper context and setting (two things FFXIV's quests deliver on) over what you misguidedly call adventure.

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I've known about the boring repetitive WoW clone series of Quest line garbage since this ancient history WoW clone game http://www.perfectworld.com/ " Perfect World "

Guaranteed to have the same repetitive style of quests as ARR, even scholar plays basically the same as venomancer, spam the only strong magic move you have and stick a few enfeebling spells on your enemies with the occasional heal, woopdi do bazzel.

So no I'm very familiar with this style of leveling and I have always disliked it, FFXI's older partying system (Before Abyssea) has always been my fav style of leveling. FFXI had you jumping through zones and after they added all the expansions there was a large verity of camping spots which made it interesting, if you were a skilled player you knew about all the best places and the set ups to match those areas too.
To me partying to exp has always been the way to level in Final Fantasy, all the games before ARR have the mob grinding method of leveling and just like all the other Final Fantasy games it was always about knowing the best spots and the best ways to lvl fast.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

The journey actually was more important than the destination.

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Exactly, everyone knows MMO's have no final destination anyway, every single MMO out there has you replacing your gear over and over again, it's about the experience other wise whats the point in the first place?

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Originally Posted by Gramul

The journey actually was more important than the destination.

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The players that enjoy FFXI probably went through something like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARghlVjBab0

While FFXIV makes you feel like you're at a drive thru at McDonalds.


And the complexity of it all

http://www.wilddragonchase.com/ffxi/NewSkillchain1.png

vs the simplicity of FFXIV.

I enjoy FFXIV for what it is but it could of been so much more if they had built on FFXI while taking away the long grinds. Instead we are here arguing with WoW fans who want FFXIV to cater to them because WoW is the greatest mmo ever. Oh yeah and players that sat in Jueno all day with LFG sign up because they weren't social enough or couldn't find players to form a static.

*Metal Gear Solid 4*
MMOs have changed, now players want mmos to be solo games and everything put in instances,
MMOs have changed, it's no longer about the journey but how much loot I can get asap.,
yadda yadda yadda

I have so many things I want to say but I cannot possibly put them into words without making myself seem like a complete idiot. I started writing about 2 hours ago... and I've completely erased everything I wrote because I don't believe it would get my point across or it would just lose people along the way which would result in a "to long, didn't read" situation. So, I'll just write down what I have found enjoyable about MMOs that I've actually stuck with, while realizing my idea of "fun" does not in any way represent what someone else may find enjoyable and they may just downright hate what I like.

Questing & Story, without all the Hand Holding


There's just something about well written quest dialog that holds my attention and puts a smile on my face. Maybe it's because I enjoy reading fantasy, or maybe it's because I can actually see the situation happening in some fantasy land. Whatever the case, that is all pointless if the "Journey" does not exist.

When a well written quest or quest line is introduced it becomes completely and utterly unbelievable for me when the game gives me information or the location to complete the quest when it was not mentioned in the quest dialog whatsoever. It takes away the Journey element and ruins what credibility the quest may have had because "Hey, anyone could do this. That NPC didn't really need me." sinks into my brain and won't let go. It becomes less of a "Quest" and more of a "Chore" to do, simply because something within the game is telling me "Go, do this here and here and then you're done. Simple right?" *sigh*

Final Fantasy XI (I'm sorry, this is about all I really have to pull from. I did play the game for 8 years straight.) approached quests with the well written story, but instead of the A to B and back to A (or even worse, A to B and done at B...) it was more in the form of A to C... wait, where's B? "B" in this case is an element that is "inferred" to by the quest giving NPC but he does not "tell you" to do it nor does he or the game point it out. You can do A to C and completely skip B if you so choose, but if you do, just know that you are missing out on WAAAAAAAAAY more story than you would if you simply went looking for B... oh also, if you skip B, doing C is harder. In this way, you are encouraged to seek out B and in the end, you (or at least I) will feel a heck of a lot better about it and that feeling of "accomplishment" will wash over you. The thing about this is, Final Fantasy XI took it a step further in some quests, with an example being A -> D -> G, or slightly changing your quest rewards based upon how many elements of a quest line you actually "found" without the game telling you exactly where to find them. Now that's an adventure.

... and I did it again... way to long, I've probably lost people, but to hell with it. I'm posting this one... although, I had a lot more to say. :(

*EDIT*

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kittra

Also, this horse mask takes away any credibility I may have...

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The Problem with Quest Leveling in MMOs?

In short, there isn't any...
Unless, the game leaves no room for quests that vary in reward.

Someone made a very good point earlier, Final Fantasy XI did a very good job on how it handled quest rewards (usually... *mutters something about 500 gil for a Siren's Tear*...), there was no "Experience" reward, but it did have multiple "unique" rewards and how you could use them without the game telling you what you could and couldn't do.

One example is a quest item you get by spawning a monster and killing it. You could choose to turn the item in for a small gil reward, OR you could just keep the item and put it up as a decoration in your Mog house (this made it so you couldn't do the quest over again till you turned in the original item), which put you at odds with the quest giver.

There are many quests like this (maybe not quite as many unique ones like that example) but each played a larger roll, such as unlocking access to an area, unlocking new quest lines (which, once again, the game did not point out to you. You had to find them.), giving you access to new spells or abilities, and unique collectible items you could display on your character or in your Mog house.

Right now FFXIV's quest system has many flaws, but the largest one to me is that, with all the EXP reward quests, there doesn't seem to be any room for quests that are just... enjoyable because they're there and approach the game differently.

By themselves, EXP quests are alright, but there's another problem associated with them that takes away from the game's overall enjoyment in my opinion.

MMOs and Solo Game Play

What's wrong with solo game play in a >>>>>>> Massively Multiplayer Online Game? <<<<<<<

Really it should be: What's wrong with playing in a group on an MMORPG?

If you listen to the masses these days, it seems everyone is clamoring for more Solo play in Online games... which boggles my mind.

I am, by nature, an extremely shy individual. I'm one of those people who sat for 5-7 HOURS in Jeuno or Whitegate with my party flag up while 5-8 other people around me were doing the same. Why? Because I didn't want to be burdened with/stressed with the responsibility of forming a party and telling everyone "Ok, lets go here." because I have no self confidence in my abilities to socially interact. And yet, I play MMOs and hate solo play?

Looking back to Final Fantasy XI, I can honestly say while I'm socially inept. Leveling with random people in the most bazaar places with the most random party setups were some of the best moments of my MMO life.

We could laugh at someone screwing up, we'd chat about random subjects, someone we have no connection with can pour their heart out about how their Grandmother is dieing in the hospital and they just need to get away from it all so they play MMOs and we'll offer our condolences and try to take their mind off of it. This all happens while we're "grinding" to level up, yet it doesn't feel like a grind. Why IS that?

Maybe because even socially inept people need human interaction and crave community even if it's random. I could never be one of those people of the world who can go up to anyone, look them straight in the face and start up a completely random conversation. Yet in a group where mutual interest is concerned, eventually that interest becomes secondary, and fellowship becomes primary.

In case you can't tell, this is why I believe the current system of "Solo" Quest leveling is a downside to Final Fantasy XIV. As a tutorial to the game it's not a bad idea, but at some point I just wish there was something that could... force? random people together to accomplish a goal without the game dictating what that thing or things were.

*EDIT*

When have I had the most fun playing the game so far? Randomly being paired with people who don't care how fast they do a Duty Finder run, but instead take time to enjoy every little thing "including" the mistakes people make and are able to laugh it off.

When do I not enjoy myself? Everyday I've been subscribed so far baring what I mentioned above, but most of all doing Duty Finder runs with random people who are interested in nothing but "Do you know the dungeon/fight? How fast can we get this done?"

Also, doing things solo in a game where every character you see is controlled by an individual, feels incredibly wrong. :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kittra

Snip(

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I feel exactly the same way about it, thanks for that, it was a good read. I hope some time in the future SE realize that there game is no longer the same masterpiece it once was and figure out some way to bring back some real feeling of adventure and bring back some content that brings people together.

The only thing I don't relate to in your story is the seeking party's, for me I was always the one bringing people together and I had a good reputation for it too. ^^b
My party's were always fun as, sometimes my party's would last multiple days at a time before dieing XD.

The longest party I ever made lasted 3 days flat and the players who left on day one would come back in on day two and 3, kind of like a rotation with players taking sleeping shifts, it was so epic.

That's just another thing about XI's play style I really loved, the fact that everyone kind of knew everyone because the world would unite all the players bringing together a real sense of community. I was popular as an exp party leader, people always knew if I was the leader to expect an epic party and for someone else it might be something different but for me that was a really cool leveling experience.

Many of the players I met leveling would also join me for end game content as well and there was always plenty of opportunity's to be re united with players I met along the way.

SE did what will make them the most money; Cater to the masses. There are far more players that want easy easy easy than people that want to work for stuff and enjoy the adventure that MMO's used to have. I played XIV for 2 months and that's it, it's just another shallow mmorpg with zero depth. I've actually reactivated my XI account because of this and although it is not the same game it used to be it's still way closer to an mmo than ffxiv can ever hope to be.