Realm Reborn = downgrade?

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Originally Posted by Nemy

I actually wanted to ask someone about this, Currently i'm in Europe, (although i will be in LA in November) and i get an "area error" when i try to apply for the alpha. What's the deal?

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Maybe they read this topic and banned from alpha !

seriusly, check language set on lodestone. If it's different from your account region gives an error

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Beautifully written. The most important thing in "any" game honestly is the game play itself. Miyamoto from Nintendo has said several times that how they make games is that they build the core game play and make sure it is solid, then they will make a story around that game play. This is the same thing with MMO's, and even Blizzard did this. They made sure the game play was solid before adding the world, lore, and neat animations in later.

The new development team for FFXIV is going by these ideals, they want to make sure that the game play is as solid and fluid as possible, and one of the things to do was cut down on the animation. You can be disappointed all you like, but on a technical scale, you should understand the situation.

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Technically, its not a year and a half into development, since they had so much content from FFXIV, and working on an engine that should be compatible with Crystal Tools in many ways. Also nobody forced them to rebuild the game from the ground up, instead of heavily patch and expand the current one.

From a player's point of view, you have to also realise that we're not just potential customers, we are people who invested in this game in many different ways so taking away core elements of it shouldn't be made so lightly in my opinion. I really don't want to sound like a self-entitled idiot, but there is a difference here worth pointing out.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Beautifully written. The most important thing in "any" game honestly is the game play itself. Miyamoto from Nintendo has said several times that how they make games is that they build the core game play and make sure it is solid, then they will make a story around that game play. This is the same thing with MMO's, and even Blizzard did this. They made sure the game play was solid before adding the world, lore, and neat animations in later.

The new development team for FFXIV is going by these ideals, they want to make sure that the game play is as solid and fluid as possible, and one of the things to do was cut down on the animation. You can be disappointed all you like, but on a technical scale, you should understand the situation.

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I'll understand when people start muttering incessantly about combat feeling like "The Secret World" and once again declaring the game a failure for new reasons.

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Originally Posted by Nemy

Technically, its not a year and a half into development, since they had so much content from FFXIV, and working on an engine that should be compatible with Crystal Tools in many ways. Also nobody forced them to rebuild the game from the ground up, instead of heavily patch and expand the current one.

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Yoshi actually addressed this in one of his earlier letters to us. They problem with the current engine was the code was such a jumble of a mess to decipher it was decided it would be easier to just build a new engine and game off of that from the ground up. Since they determined fixing the current coding would cause more problems then fix anything >.<. I seriously want to know who they hired for the initial coding job to make such a horrible speghetti knot mess of the original engine and game to make it hard to improve upon it correctly.

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Originally Posted by Xmbei

Yoshi actually addressed this in one of his earlier letters to us. They problem with the current engine was the code was such a jumble of a mess to decipher it was decided it would be easier to just build a new engine and game off of that from the ground up. Since they determined fixing the current coding would cause more problems then fix anything >.<. I seriously want to know who they hired for the initial coding job to make such a horrible speghetti knot mess of the original engine and game to make it hard to improve upon it correctly.

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sometimes i think the original FF dev team didn't care at all of this game .

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Originally Posted by lololink

sometimes i think the original FF dev team didn't care at all of this game .

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When you have Tanaka who seems to have only played the games he have created, this what happens. http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/fi...asy-xiv-online ;)

Thank you very much for your application to be a FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn alpha tester!

All good.

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Originally Posted by Nemy

Technically, its not a year and a half into development, since they had so much content from FFXIV, and working on an engine that should be compatible with Crystal Tools in many ways. Also nobody forced them to rebuild the game from the ground up, instead of heavily patch and expand the current one.

From a player's point of view, you have to also realise that we're not just potential customers, we are people who invested in this game in many different ways so taking away core elements of it shouldn't be made so lightly in my opinion. I really don't want to sound like a self-entitled idiot, but there is a difference here worth pointing out.

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Sorry, but SE's objective right now is to not cater to a niche audience, they want to appeal to "everyone". If you are so hooked on FFXI's outdated(not saying bad) game play and concepts, well, FFXI is still up, and getting an expansion pack.

You cannot hook your audience back in just by making major fixes to the current version and say "Ohh its fixed now, come play our game!". Potential customers are not going to buy that. Now when a developer says "Hey we trashed the old game and built a completely brand new one from scratch that meets MMO standards and beyond.", I am very sure, that potential customer is more intrigued to buy the game.

Sorry, but this decision from them to completely rebuild the game play to it's core was completely necessary. A lot of ideas and requests not just from the developers, but even the "invested fans", simply cannot be done with the 1.0 engine and battle system. PvP would be a joke in 1.xx. All keeping the current battle system would do is the developers making a poor attempt to standardize an outdated feeling battle system. Also, making beautiful animations and moving around at the same time would be stupid looking.

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Originally Posted by Xmbei

Yoshi actually addressed this in one of his earlier letters to us. They problem with the current engine was the code was such a jumble of a mess to decipher it was decided it would be easier to just build a new engine and game off of that from the ground up.

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It was still their decision though. Its not like they had to do it.

Also, if the lack of the current quality of animation is due to their decision to build a new engine, then the word easier there, takes a whole new meaning.

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Originally Posted by Nemy

It was still their decision though. Its not like they had to do it.

Also, if the lack of the current quality of animation is due to their decision to build a new engine, then the word easier there, takes a whole new meaning.

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Yeah but if enough of it is rotten it's not worth saving. That's the whole premise of 2.0. Even if you're not a game developer, the year of f2p, the public apology, the Legacy discounts are all saying how rotten the game was. They're not supporting that game any more. They're burying the copies of it in the Arizona desert. I would never support them trying to zombie FFXIV. It's too limited, too clunky. There was so much people wanted that "couldn't be done with the current client", "couldn't be done with the current servers and structure", "couldn't be done with the current UI".

Every time I sell something on a retainer I'm reminded how crappy 1.0 is. No amount of pretty, realistic animation would make me want them to stop rebuilding the entire game.

The current engine is a turd, you can polish it all you want, it will still be a turd. The devs saw this and started from scratch.

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Originally Posted by Nemy

FOR THE HONOUR OF MY BELOVED SQUARE ENIX!

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Wow you are just too cool for school ain't ya. I'd rather support the publisher of my fave MMO for 6yrs to actually come through this time instead of messing up. Call it white knighting all you like, but it beats being a whiney little kid that is crying over animation before he has even touched the game to see how it even plays like. Get off your high horse, you really think the devs give 2 blinks on what you think? I highly doubt it, but keep crying I'm sure 80% of the forums are enjoying a very dull day at work while laughing at your posts.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Yeah but if enough of it is rotten it's not worth saving. That's the whole premise of 2.0. Even if you're not a game developer, the year of f2p, the public apology, the Legacy discounts are all saying how rotten the game was. They're not supporting that game any more. They're burying the copies of it in the Arizona desert. I would never support them trying to zombie FFXIV. It's too limited, too clunky. There was so much people wanted that "couldn't be done with the current client", "couldn't be done with the current servers and structure", "couldn't be done with the current UI".

Every time I sell something on a retainer I'm reminded how crappy 1.0 is. No amount of pretty, realistic animation would make me want them to stop rebuilding the entire game.

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Originally Posted by Lirion

The current engine is a turd, you can polish it all you want, it will still be a turd. The devs saw this and started from scratch.

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Amen to both of these. Like Hiir says, I'd sacrifice animation for everything that they posted.

In this case, I'd forgotten when Yoshi said the old code was such a mess that they couldn't salvage it. The lack of animations makes more sense now, given the time constraint and wanting to make sure the gameplay itself is solid.

That being said, I really hope that the current animations are just that, "current," and that they'll be improved in the future. Nail the gameplay, give us a beautiful world, give us a tonne of things to do, and a lot of people will be happy, including the people who stopped playing or who never played at all. But please, don't think that suddenly taking away something we've had and enjoyed for two years will sit lightly. The beautiful motion animations do play a part in enjoyment of the gameplay. I've said before, I'm okay with losing the start/stop animations, but the plain running animation needs work. There is no reason the basic running animation should affect gameplay or lag or whatever. It's just running.

I understand why this may not come to pass for launch, but please tell us it won't be this way forever. Precedent has been set before after all. After they got rid of the "stopping mid-run to pull out/put away weapons," everyone was skating around until they fixed it. So changing animations after the game has launched is doable. I really hope after the game has launched and everything is going swimmingly that they'll look into making us look like real, living creatures again.

EDIT: Also, sorry Nemy, but I agree with the others. The current engine was a mess, and simply covering over it with ribbons and polish wouldn't have hidden that. I'll always support Yoshi's decision to start from scratch, but I never thought something like our motion animations would be cast in the fire. Here's hoping their attention to detail/insane love for this game means someone on the team is working on recoding our animations, at least to improve what they've shown in the videos.

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Originally Posted by AntonyB

Wow you are just too cool for school ain't ya. I'd rather support the publisher of my fave MMO for 6yrs to actually come through this time instead of messing up. Call it white knighting all you like, but it beats being a whiney little kid that is crying over animation before he has even touched the game to see how it even plays like. Get off your high horse, you really think the devs give 2 blinks on what you think? I highly doubt it, but keep crying I'm sure 80% of the forums are enjoying a very dull day at work while laughing at your posts.

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being that mad someone implied you WhiteKnighted

Thank you for your criticism, added you in the OP.

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Originally Posted by Nemy

being that mad someone implied you WhiteKnighted

Thank you for your criticism, added you in the OP.

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Your sooo cool now aye?

So I see people citing GW2 as having all these fluid start/stop animations while still maintaining gameplay but I really don't see the difference between the animations in GW2 and the animations in 2.0. The stop is abrupt, there's a little half-step in there when it is need. Why is this being hailed as being so much better than 2.0?

This video was brought up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGNls...eature=related

Even at about 11 seconds in when he stops it's abrupt, just like 2.0. It's not like the lengthy (in comparison) animations we have currently.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

So I see people citing GW2 as having all these fluid start/stop animations while still maintaining gameplay but I really don't see the difference between the animations in GW2 and the animations in 2.0. The stop is abrupt, there's a little half-step in there when it is need. Why is this being hailed as being so much better than 2.0?

This video was brought up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGNls...eature=related

Even at about 11 seconds in when he stops it's abrupt, just like 2.0. It's not like the lengthy (in comparison) animations we have currently.

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and this is only a Pre-Alpha build mind you, this can get a whole a lot better, Just we have to do our part to tell them that this is extremely important. Animations are important but they can wait till ARR is out. Gameplay and Content is #1 Priority.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

and this is only a Pre-Alpha build mind you, this can get a whole a lot better, Just we have to do our part to tell them that this is extremely important. Animations are important but they can wait till ARR is out. Gameplay and Content is #1 Priority.

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Well I mean they outright said that those lengthy start/stop animations aren't coming back but yes, the quality of the current stop animations can increase as time goes on. It really doesn't look bad to me at all but I guess I just "don't get it".

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Originally Posted by Nemy

being that mad someone implied you WhiteKnighted

Thank you for your criticism, added you in the OP.

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Whos mad? You are the one attacking everyone that has a different opinion than you. Add me to the OP:

http://www.godammit.com/wp-content/u...ive_a_fuck.gif

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Well I mean they outright said that those lengthy start/stop animations aren't coming back but yes, the quality of the current stop animations can increase as time goes on. It really doesn't look bad to me at all but I guess I just "don't get it".

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Well, if the demand is high enough they may fix that before ARR. Just like anything else that gets high demand Yoshi-P trys his best to get it in before x deadline. It doesn't look bad to me either, the animations look cool to me too, Yes it is a downgrade but we knew that was going to happen for a long time now.

Three things are their Top Priority:

- Gameplay ( Animation lock, Combos etc)
- Content ( FFXIV 1.0 seriously lacked of)
- Server engine ( The whole thing needed to be redone in order to achieve a smooth and fluent servers)

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Originally Posted by Nemy

being that mad someone implied you WhiteKnighted

Thank you for your criticism, added you in the OP.

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Adding these types of comments to the OP clearly show how immature you're being to other people's opinions. You're definitely making this a one sided argument on the front page by adding what looks like mature and compelling arguments in favour of yourself and taking very small portions (including only a third of what I last posted, not displaying all of my argument) of what appear to be very weak arguments with attached hate for the opposing.

Also, yes, Square HAD to rebuild the entire engine from scratch, because otherwise they would never get the numbers required to make this game even partially a success. They have done nothing but lose a huge amount of money with 1.0 and no amounts of changes to the current engine would ever drastically increase subscription level. I think you need to take a step back and look at things from a clear perspective, because the way you're going on about things it's like you think 1.0 was a godsend of a game and didn't need to be changed in any way.

And good optimized graphism Starlord .
And these animation reality is not in that part of course

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Originally Posted by AntonyB

Whos mad? You are the one attacking everyone that has a different opinion than you. Add me to the OP:

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Well you do sound genuinely mad.

Attacking? I just posted a pretty picture of you on a white horse. I wouldn't call that an attack per se, more like an implication.

Honestly now, want me to keep or remove your post from the OP? You approach the issue from a very specific angle, that does no harm to be represented here.

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Honestly now, want me to keep or remove your post from the OP?

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That sounds like a threat... " If you don't do what I say then Your words will be on my OP for All to see MUAHAHAHA" -.-

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Originally Posted by Nemy

Well you do sound genuinely mad.

Attacking? I just posted a pretty picture of you on a white horse. I wouldn't call that an attack per se, more like an implication.

Honestly now, want me to keep or remove your post from the OP? You approach the issue from a very specific angle, that does no harm to be represented here.

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well you are being critical on other people post and that whole picture of "white knighting" doesn't put a lot of maturity in your arguments. People are giving valid arguments to the way how SE are running things, but you go out there and say "oh look at all these white knights" as much you have the right to criticize SE way of doing things, they have a right to defend it.

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Originally Posted by Ixmo

Adding these types of comments to the OP clearly show how immature you're being to other people's opinions. You're definitely making this a one sided argument on the front page by adding what looks like mature and compelling arguments in favour of yourself and taking very small portions (including only a third of what I last posted, not displaying all of my argument) of what appear to be very weak arguments with attached hate for the opposing.

Also, yes, Square HAD to rebuild the entire engine from scratch, because otherwise they would never get the numbers required to make this game even partially a success. They have done nothing but lose a huge amount of money with 1.0 and no amounts of changes to the current engine would ever drastically increase subscription level. I think you need to take a step back and look at things from a clear perspective, because the way you're going on about things it's like you think 1.0 was a godsend of a game and didn't need to be changed in any way.

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Okay what the fuck. Now i'm the one being mad.

I added the last portion of your post because in my opinion it was summarising your view. Not to cut anything. You're being seriously unfair here.

As for AntonyB's post, shouldn't i be allowed to post it because its not exactly your approach on the subject? It is a different approach and has every right to be represented.

If you think i'm still being biased, (although i unavoidably am, since i represent a view here, i'm not an observer) point out quotes that you think they represent your view in the right way and i'll be happy to post them

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It's funny how people shit themselves out of blind fury when you ask them to use x MMO's feature, but will gladly praise SE for reducing animation quality lol. "White Knight" gets thrown around a lot, praising them for reducing animation quality is the equivalent of white knighting.

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Originally Posted by Nemy

Okay what the fuck. Now i'm the one being mad.

I added the last portion of your post because in my opinion it was summarising your view. Not to cut anything. You're being seriously unfair here.

As for AntonyB's post, shouldn't i be allowed to post it because its not exactly your approach on the subject? It is a different approach and has every right to be represented.

If you think i'm still being biased, (although i unavoidably am, since i represent a view here, i'm not an observer) point out quotes that you think they represent your view in the right way and i'll be happy to post them

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Isn't it a tad wrong to make an organized two-sided argument when the OP is very biased on one side?

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Originally Posted by Elexia

It's funny how people shit themselves out of blind fury when you ask them to use x MMO's feature, but will gladly praise SE for reducing animation quality lol. "White Knight" gets thrown around a lot, praising them for reducing animation quality is the equivalent of white knighting.

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ANYone here say that SE is doing great thing with reducing animation quality .
They say that SE is doing great with having a better gameplay even if the animations suffers a little .

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Originally Posted by neorei

well you are being critical on other people post and that whole picture of "white knighting" doesn't put a lot of maturity in your arguments. People are giving valid arguments to the way how SE are running things, but you go out there and say "oh look at all these white knights" as much you have the right to criticize SE way of doing things, they have a right to defend it.

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I don't think there's more to his original post other than blindly praising the company and their decisions, while attacking us for "spamming complaints after complaints after complaints"

And yet NOBODY said a word for that blatant and needless attack, but instead you attack me, for posting a knight on a horse as a response.

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Originally Posted by lololink

ANYone here says that SE is doing great thing with reducing animation quality .
They says that SE is doing great with having a better gameplay event if the animations suffers a little .

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I agree with this also, no one is giving SE props for reducing animation, what they're saying is that they're will to take a sacrifice for the bigger picture.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

It's funny how people shit themselves out of blind fury when you ask them to use x MMO's feature, but will gladly praise SE for reducing animation quality lol. "White Knight" gets thrown around a lot, praising them for reducing animation quality is the equivalent of white knighting.

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Woah woah, back up. Have you played FFXIV?

Take the new content, the H-1 machine.

when you leash that thing, what does it do? It'll run up to it's territory boundary. Stop. Hunch over and then sliiiiiide back into its territory in that same hunched over state.

Is that quality animation to you? When you have a lot of little animations for the sake of it, your computer will end up dropping them when there's a lot going on on your screen anyway! Talk about immersion ruination.

They're streamlining the animations so that we can consistently enjoy them. This raises the quality of the animation.

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Originally Posted by neorei

I agree with this also, no one is giving SE props for reducing animation, what they're saying is that they're will to take a sacrifice for the bigger picture.

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"But neorei, that how we got 1.0 in the first place."

I know I'm not saying 1.0 didn't need to be changed. But if I'm going to be playing a weightless puppet, there are much less expensive games I can play. You assume all of the changes in 2.0 are going to be good.

Sliding across the ground and having attacks be nothing more than lights saying "I hit" as I move around is not a good change to me.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Sliding across the ground and having attacks be nothing more than lights saying "I hit" as I move around is not a good change to me.

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because attacks are more than just hitting the ennemy ?

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Originally Posted by lololink

because attacks are more than just hitting the ennemy ?

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No Motion to attack and attack effect displayed. that is what I mean.

and no one here is talking about attacking animation ...

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Woah woah, back up. Have you played FFXIV?

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Yep I do, have you played FFXIV? (What purpose was this question?)

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when you leash that thing

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This is why that happens, because the game forces entities into a cycle rather than letting it naturally occur like when you don't leash mobs. Same with knockback animation, given server checks and it doesn't display properly like it does in FFXI, a game with a more optimized client and server infrastructure.

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When you have a lot of little animations for the sake of it

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Indeed, things for the sake of it isn't what you should do, but it wasn't "for the sake of it", people seem to praise GW2 for doing things "for the sake of it", you know, making NPCs talk to each other isn't exactly needed as it adds zero gameplay elements.

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your computer will end up dropping them when there's a lot going on on your screen anyway!

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Only if you have a shitty computer or SE fails at the client design of ARR, this isn't a sprite based game.

You st-st-stutter and swear, Elexia.

Is that quality animation to you? That's a yes or no question.

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Originally Posted by lololink

and no one here is talking about attacking animation ...

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You are talking about animations used in battle and the shortcuts being taken(sliding backwards on movement being an example) Look closely at the dragoon's moves during the fight at 12:40 used in the demo. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDFIBCGbMaM the 2 Jump attacks and the dragonfire dive. Note the sliding of the character during said attacks.

I think it's safe to ask what other "shortcuts" SE intends to do.

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Originally Posted by Nemy

I don't think there's more to his original post other than blindly praising the company and their decisions, while attacking us for "spamming complaints after complaints after complaints"

And yet NOBODY said a word for that blatant and needless attack, but instead you attack me, for posting a knight on a horse as a response.

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i'm not attacking you, i'm pointing out that you are attacking people and trying to make this a real one sided argument against the "white knighters". Posting that pic and accusing people of white knighting because they want to defend SE.

thing this, we're arguing over something that we haven't played or touched. I'd understand you bringing this subject up once ARR is live. That movement might feel natural and we haven't see the full movement of this,.

you know what other game I can think of that got ridiculed for the way it's animation was that ended up being a masterpiece.

http://www.rpgfan.com/reviews/zelda_windwaker/ww-2b.jpg