You can feel sad for anyone you like (lol at this completely empty flamish statement), but you continue to purposedly miss the point. Those "tens of thousands of heroes" do *not* exist in each player's personal questing world. You don't have "tens of thousands" of people talking exactly with the same NPCs, doing exactly the same things, acting in exactly the same way, visiting exactly the same place. It does't make the slightest sense in a shared world, wether they are "heroes" or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
That's why, for every traditional quest in every MMORPG out there, the "tens of thousands" you continue to bring forth as a mantra simply do *not exist* in the storytelling. They are completely inconsequential.
You don't have very clear the difference between "any" and "every". Portraying *any* character as a dullard that has absolutely no pesonality is simply bad storytelling.Quote:
nope
just
you.
There's no difference at all. The storytelling in *every* traditional quest in *every* MMORPG is seen from an *exclusively* single player point of view. It exists and develops in each player's screen completely detached from everyone else's. There's no way to make the story make the slightest sense otherwise (and that's why developers never even waste resources trying).Quote:
Single player storytelling in an MMO environment. How hard is it to understand the difference?
Take any traditional quest in any MMORPG and you could easily transition it to a single player RPG without making any change. The same goes from the other way around. The distinction you're trying to make to prove a rather false point simply does not exist.
Mind you, it's much more fun and involving to be mr. Hero #12548. tha to be mr. Passerby random dullard #12549.
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04-29-2011, 12:41 AMAbriael
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04-29-2011, 01:01 AMBetelgeuzahToo bad the game is *more* than the "players personal questing world" (that only exists in cutscenes). You are the one missing the point here. You can be all by yourself in that little cutscene world of yours, but once it ends you are inhabiting the vast world around us with thousands of other people. People that are all "heroes", as was said in the cutscene from a minute back. As much as you'd like for this game to be your own personal sandbox, this doesn't change the fact that you exist with thousands of other people, unlike in a single player game. And that's the reason why the story can not be told in the exact same way as in a single player story, even if it can have many similarities.Quote:
Those "tens of thousands of heroes" do *not* exist in each player's personal questing world
Like I said,Quote:
Portraying *any* character as a dullard that has absolutely no pesonality is simply bad storytelling.
nope
that's
just
you.
I continue to be myself in the MMO where I create my own story, but if you portrait yourself as a dullard with no personality... well, I won't argue.
Yes, that's what I am. In a world filled with tens of thousands of people like me, I can not be the hero. And even if the story tells you how unique little pretty pink snowflake you are, you are still no less of a random passeryby dullar than I am.Quote:
mr. Passerby random dullard #12549.
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04-29-2011, 01:07 AMAlexiaKidd
I don't think there is a reason your character could not be a "hero" in the Class Missions. I think one of the problems with the Story Missions for cutscenes would be they would have to animate out the fight for each class, which would be really cool but would require a bit of extra work. The Class Missions however they already know what class you are so can make the animation work for that class easily.
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04-29-2011, 01:08 AMAbriaelToo bad that we're talking about the story here, and the fact that the story is shown from an exclusively single player point of view means that when the story unfolds on our own screen, we can be portrayed as whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
Whether we are portrayed as heroes or as random dullards the *single player driven* quests will *always* be 100% incompatible with the "tens of thousands of people". There's no contact point. Single player story and massive environment are *always* completely detached.
Again, you miss the fact that it doesn't make the slightest sense to have the same wounded hunter ask for the same 10 bear pelts to every single one of the "tens of thousands".
No matter how simple the story element is. Traditional quests are always incompatible with the massively multiplayer environment, and as such happen only in each player's "personal sanbox".
The story is *already* unfolding in each player's "personal sandbox". Like every quest-driven story in every MMORPG out there. That's the simple, undeniable fact that you continue to miss, probably purposedly, since it makes your shaky card castle collapse onto itself. -
04-29-2011, 01:10 AMBetelgeuzahToo bad we are talking about the story in an MMORPG. The story does not exist in a vacuum. It is a part of the game as a whole and thus needs to fit in there. Making it separate is by no means sensible idea.Quote:
Too bad that we're talking about the story here
You keep saying this like you think it matters. It is irrelevant. It was, it is, and it will be in the future.Quote:
The story is *already* unfolding in each player's "personal sandbox". Like every quest-driven story in every MMORPG out there. That's the simple, undeniable fact that you continue to miss, probably purposedly.
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04-29-2011, 01:21 AMAbriael*Beep* Missed the evident point again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
The story in EACH traditional quest in each MMORPG out there, including this one *already* exists in a vacuum. It's already separate, whether you consider it "sensible" or not.
The wounded hunter doesn't want to open a bear furcoats factory. In the story continuity he doesn't ask for the bear pelts to tens of thousands of people over and over. It simply doesn't make the slightest logical sense. The more the quest gain complexity over this simple example, the more completely illogical it becomes, unless the story is seen in a complete vacuum. And that's why it is, everywhere.
Because you say so? LOL.Quote:
You keep saying this like you think it matters. It is irrelevant. It was, it is, and it will be in the future.
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04-29-2011, 01:25 AMSilvertearRenWhile I may understand your perspective against the idea of what the original post is trying to propose, your discourse here has not produced anything concretely constructive that anyone can take at face value.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
The point of this thread is to make it clear that players whose characters are experienced in the way of combat should be depicted as such, not standing about as slack-jawed gawpers as a battle unfolds before them like they're greenhorns. The majority of the posters in this thread thus far have concurred with this notion, expressing the desire that their characters be given the same level of respect as the other central characters in each story.
Essentially, like I said before up to now, and most likely into the future, Square-Enix has been treating us as a "third-fiddle". That is to say, we are being treated as characters whose cinematic worth is essentially zero. Many of us don't like that. -
04-29-2011, 01:28 AMBetelgeuzahAnd do you think this is how it should be?Quote:
The story in EACH traditional quest in each MMORPG out there, including this one *already* exists in a vacuum. It's already separate, whether you consider it "sensible" or not.
The story still doesn't exist in a vacuum, it is simply separate from the game as a whole. This is not a good thing or something that should be further enforced, as you seem to want. The best case would be that everyone gets to participate in the story as that would stay completely true to the concept of an MMO, but you are asking for the opposite to happen. While the stories are already quite separate from the game, they are not completely so because the story recognizes that you are not alone in the game, even if you are alone in the story. And you want the story and the game to be completely separate, and that simply goes against what any sensible MMO developer should be aiming for- a story that is shared with everyone.
Right now the situation is not perfect, but you are making it even worse with your suggestions.
That is fine by me.Quote:
The point of this thread is to make it clear that players whose characters are experienced in the way of combat should be depicted as such, not standing about as slack-jawed gawpers as a battle unfolds before them like they're greenhorns.
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04-29-2011, 01:35 AMSilvertearRen
Betelgeuzah, Abariel, your discussions aren't exactly helping the thread. You guys seem to be going around the actual issue here: The depiction of your character in cutscenes.
We're not talking about the idea of the storylines being separated from the game world, or part of it; that is something that has no real bearing on how your character gets depicted. The real decision-maker in how your character is shown, lies with both the cinematic director and the storywriter, but it is mostly the cinematic director that's responsible for the execution.
That said, you guys should consider instead of arguing with each other and "missing" each other's points, the concept of properly treating the players' characters with the respect equal to how Square-Enix treats most of their central characters in their Final Fantasy stories.
I don't need to explain more than that, as this is purely a depiction issue. Like I described in the original post, I'm interested in seeing my character actually defend herself from attack, and actually be shown as a competent warrior against her adversaries - in cutscenes, mind you. Not standing about like a cowardly gawper and getting her tail "saved" by a bunch of NPCs, as has been the norm in FFXI and XIV. -
04-29-2011, 01:35 AMRandis
R60 story mission
NPC: The imperial soldiers burned down Gridania! They raped our woman and killed our children!
Player: ....
NPC: Thanks god, an adventurer! Please avenge my dead family! I have marked a location on your map, please go there and kill a fat dodo!
R 70 Story mission
NPC: The time for our final strike against the Empire came! Tonight we will write History!
Player: ...
NPC: Adventurer! it is good to see you! Please go to Uldah and kill a Dodo. -
04-29-2011, 01:39 AMReikaBlasted dodo's are working for the empire!Quote:
Originally Posted by Randis
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04-29-2011, 01:39 AMAlexiaKiddLol so true ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Randis
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04-29-2011, 01:39 AMSilvertearRenThank you for your understanding. I appreciate it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
This is truth. It's kinda demeaning to be sent after some random field mobs when you could be fighting the Empire's field troops instead. :p But this doesn't exactly cover what this thread is meant to address, guys. It does sum up the problem nicely though!Quote:
Originally Posted by Randis
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04-29-2011, 01:42 AMAbriaelFor traditional quests, yes. It's how it should be. Traditional quests have a stronger narrative value than public quests *exactly* because they exist in a vacuum, leaving the developer more freedom in storytelling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
That's why even games that have a strong presence of public quests also feature a strong presence of traditional quests.
Public quests are all good and nice, but cannot support a strongly story-driven environment by themselves.
You basically say "the story doesn't exist in a vacuum, it simply exists in a vacuum" :DQuote:
The story still doesn't exist in a vacuum, it is simply separate from the game as a whole.
Says who? This is a Final Fantasy MMORPG, complex stories are the very base of Final Fantasy games, and the very reason why many people buy them. Traditional quests have the strongest story-driven component, and in fact that's why they have been chosen as the main storyline tool. Like in every MMORPG out there, no matter how sandboxish.Quote:
This is not a good thing or something that should be further enforced
The presence of strongly story-driven traditional quests is not in any way incompatible with the presence of public quests. There are plenty games that feature both out there, and they work great together.Quote:
The best case would be that everyone gets to participate in the story as that would stay completely true to the concept of an MMO, but you are asking for the opposite to happen.
Traditional quests are always chosen as the main storytelling tool simply because they have more storytelling potential and freedom.
The current story does not recognize in any way that the same story is played by other people. Simply because there's *no way* to include that factor in any story-driven environment, unless everyone interacted with completely different NPCs, in a different way, with different events and so forth. It simply doesn't happen. Everyone interacts with the same NPCs, has exactly the same events happening to him, exactly the same things are told to him and so forth. There's absolutely no logical way for tis to happen unless each story happens in a complete vacuum, and it does *already*.Quote:
hile the stories are already quite separate from the game, they are not completely so because the story recognizes that you are not alone in the game, even if you are alone in the story. And you want the story and the game to be completely separate, and that simply goes against what any sensible MMO developer should be aiming for- a story that is shared with everyone.
No. My suggestion doesn't change the compatibility situation *at all*. The story of every quest already exists in a vacuum. The stories played by others aren't recognized at all in each player's story. They simply do not happen. No matter how boring and unfun the role of the player character is.Quote:
Right now the situation is not perfect, but you are making it even worse with your suggestions.
Actually my argument is directly related to the depiction of our character in cutscenes. Betelgeuzah opposes giving our character more screen time and a larger/better role (which is what you want, if I'm not wrong) with the sole flawed argument that there are "thousand of people" in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilvertearRen
I'm dismantling that argument exactly to support yours.
I would definitely say it's in-topic. -
04-29-2011, 01:47 AMBetelgeuzahIt doesn't exist in a vacuum. The story recognizes that you are only one of the tens of thousands of people inhabiting the world and thus one of the many that are a part of the storylines that take place. That makes it more of a part of the game than any other MMO with traditional storytelling. You simply want to remove that last aspect that keeps the stories at least somewhat plausible within the MMO gameworld.Quote:
No. My suggestion doesn't change the compatibility the situation *at all*. The story of every quest already exists in a vacuum.
Nothing else needs to be said. You refuse to acknowledge this fact, and until you do, there is no need to continue any further. -
04-29-2011, 01:55 AMSilvertearRenWhile I agree with your assessment, it's both sides' unwillingness to compromise on the debate that I find problematic, and it leads to a tit-for-tat argument that doesn't help the thread's integrity. The reality is, both of you are correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
Betelgeuzah is correct in saying that the story of FFXIV recognizes your individual character as "one of tens of thousands of people inhabiting the world", and this does make the stories plausible.
I don't want to be depicted as a "lone hero" in a MMO. That's definitely a conundrum: As such, a solution would be to treat us as among the more experienced of adventurers in XIV where we would know how to react in situations beyond the grasp of the average treasure-hunter and gil-pinching adventurer.
An example: The average Lalafell pirate from Limsa Lominsa would drop everything and run like hell if faced with fighting Leviathan himself! But would we, the grizzled and experienced adventurer who has faced down the likes of Sand Piestes, the undead soldiers of the past, battled the voidsent and scalekin of Coerthas, survived an encounter with a Garlean Legatus (R46 Futures Perfect), and escaped the wrath of a Garlean Behemoth (R46 Futures Perfect, too), back down from a challenge by a Primal!?
Hell no. We'd kick his ass. -
04-29-2011, 01:57 AMAbriaelThere's no fact of yours to aknowledge. There's no aspect to remove (except utter boredom and flatness, which in no way contributes to anything).Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
Every player meets exactly the same NPCs, they tell him exactly the same things, they fight in front of him in exactly the same way, against exactly the same element. There's no logical continuity between this and the *same* story that happens down to every single world to everyone else.
Ergo, the story exists in a complete airtight vacuum, no matter how much you try to argue against it. The fact that the player is portrayed as a random dullard is no aknowledgement of that. There are no multiple dimensions in FFXIV. The same exact facts cannot happen to tens of thousands of people, no matter if they're heroes or dullard.
The only explanation of that is a story that happens in a vacuum for everyone. And that's story can be as heroic as any single player one.
It's that simple.
All you're arguing forum is a more boring and less involving story in the name of some arbitrary, hazy concept that simply doesn't exist in the game.
It really doesn't. There's no plausibility in the same facts happening in the same way with the same NPCs to thousands of people, no matter if they're heroes or dullards.Quote:
Betelgeuzah is correct in saying that the story of FFXIV recognizes your individual character as "one of tens of thousands of people inhabiting the world", and this does make the stories plausible.
Nor do I, One of the heroes is plenty fine. The problem is that we're depicted as random dullards, and that's extremely counterproductive to the enjoyment of the story.Quote:
I don't want to be depicted as a "lone hero" in a MMO.
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04-29-2011, 01:58 AMBetelgeuzahI like the "being more experienced as you progress further" idea. The stories can show that we have gotten stronger, as we have, and that doesn't take away from the fact that many others have gotten stronger as well. It fits.Quote:
I don't want to be depicted as a "lone hero" in a MMO. That's definitely a conundrum: As such, a solution would be to treat us as among the more experienced of adventurers in XIV where we would know how to react in situations beyond the grasp of the average treasure-hunter and gil-pinching adventurer.
If you have nothing to say, why say anything? You keep circling around the fact that the story makes you seem like an ordinary adventurer among everyone else that you are and will be regardless of what happens. You said nothing that would go against this fact, and you won't.Quote:
There's no fact of yours to aknowledge. There's no aspect to remove
So there's no need to continue. Let go. -
04-29-2011, 02:02 AMSilvertearRenThe discussion between you and Betelgeuzah is done. It's over. Please refrain from further pressing the argument. I ended it for the both of you, and I'd appreciate it if you'd respect the thread's integrity going forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
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04-29-2011, 02:04 AMSilvertearRenIt does fit. Right now, we're only faced with a Rank 50 cap in the game. I imagine that if Square Enix plans on showing more cutscenes in a new storyline arc, I'd appreciate it if they'd show our characters, which would be past R45 by the time the new content comes, as competent adventurers ready for a fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
And I don't mean like raring to go - I mean in the sense that we can defend ourselves against our opponents, regardless of the power divide. -
04-29-2011, 02:10 AMAbriaelConsidering that those "many others" don't appear *at all* in the storyline (because there's no logical way to make them appear), that part is completely inconsequential.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
Again, because you said so? Ignoring the arguments that prove you wrong doesn't make you right, you know?Quote:
If you have nothing to say, why say anything? You keep circling around the fact that the story makes you seem like an ordinary adventurer among everyone else that you are and will be regardless of what happens. You said nothing that would go against this fact, and you won't.
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04-29-2011, 02:10 AMRandisBut the thing is, you usually never are a lone Hero in a offline RPG, in all FF titles you usually always end up with a large team of people at the end. in Tactics you have a whole clan even and the only difference between the main character and the hired guns is that they have no lines in cutscenes.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilvertearRen
I think no one asks to start out as a hero... its is merely about being involved in the story and in FFXIV you are not involved much... you only get to hear about the story. everything is exciting in cut scenes, wars and all but once you finish your mission you will see that there is absolutely nothing going on in the world at all.
- We do not get to fight in the battles.
- We do not participate in any of the big events
- we have no storyline quests where you are asked to team up with others.
the story does not make any use of the fact that we are a large number of adventurers.
The story in fact feels like a single player game (just not as interesting and you are no hero)
The story goes against simple logic. If 95% of the population are adventurers, then why is the resistance in such small numbers despite the known fact that we all play the same quests?
Why are we not recruited in large groups?
Another thing is...
Story quests R1 - R20 IMO are rather boring and tell nothing much about what is going on.
By the time you are R50 you have only had a couple story missions, that is not much...
do your maths, how many hours did you spend getting a couple jobs to r50? How much story did you get during that time?
little!
Even if the level cap goes up to 75 anytime soon, with 50 you already advanced more than half and for that much we get much to little. -
04-29-2011, 02:12 AMSilvertearRenHere's a fun tidbit: If you're in a party for the R46 Futures Perfect quest, you can have up to 3 party members. And guess what? They get depicted in the cutscene as you pursue the Garlean Centurion through Mor Dhona. That was pretty neat. Found out about it myself last night. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Randis
Though, the problem still stands. :p -
04-29-2011, 02:15 AMBetelgeuzahYet they do appear everywhere else. Which in turn makes it consequential how you are portrayed in the story. Because once the story ends, you are there with everyone else. Not alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
You continue to deny the facts and you won't change. Just give up. -
04-29-2011, 02:17 AMAbriaelBecause it's impossible to coordinate thousands of adventurers playing *exactly* the same role in the same story. Ergo, the story is played in a vacuum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Randis
The problem is that at the moment it's a boring vacuum, and the player needs to be put more in the spotlight for the story to be more enjoyable.
The fact that they appear everywhere else is exactly the proof that the story is already played in a vacuum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
As much as it'd be very convenient for you, people don't just "give up" because you tell them to.Quote:
You continue to deny the facts and you won't change. Just give up.
Those players are shown with no different role than random NPCs. You get their appearence, but their participation to the story itself (and their part in it that they played on their own "world") has no bearing on yours, because if it did it would create a serious continuity issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilvertearRen
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04-29-2011, 02:19 AMSilvertearRenLike I said, you and Abriael are correct to an extent. The both of you need to stop responding to each other.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
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04-29-2011, 02:20 AMXzen
It would be fairly simple for them to have "special characters" that could be replaced with yours during an epic fight depending on what class you are.
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04-29-2011, 02:21 AMRandis
[QUOTE=Abriael;111816]Because it's impossible to coordinate thousands of adventurers playing *exactly* the same role in the same story. Ergo, the story is played in a vacuum.
The problem is that at the moment it's a boring vacuum, and the player needs to be put more in the spotlight for the story to be more enjoyable.
If people can form a behest party or a random SP party then they should be able to team up for story quests as well.
IMO they should have a additional story line with quests for party only.
And yes, the story for the existing quests should be a lot better and a bit more challenging.
we should fight some soldiers and not beasts.
Quests like protecting a NPC from 2 low level wolfs should be forbidden.
They seriously asked me to walk from Uldah to Gridania because a messenger is trapped there, attacked by 2 wolfs... come on... i waited a couple days till i finished the quest. (it was a r30+ one)
the quests suck, periode.
Ifrit and judge are SUPER COOL, no question! Cool graphics don't make a cool story tho. -
04-29-2011, 02:23 AMSilvertearRenThat's an idea! Look at the R46 Futures Perfect combat sequence against the Garlean Legatus. We have NPC characters that are Thaumaturges, Conjurers, "rogues" (technically doesn't count as a class-specific character for now), and so on. If your character was a pugilist in that cutscene, she could take the place of Yda.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xzen
That's an interesting idea that could be conceptualized further...
-Addenum-
An example! Let's say we have a core group of NPCs that are part of the main storyline quest. They are backed by a squad of generic NPCs from each DoW and DoM class. A cutscene ensues against an epic enemy, and each and every single one of those NPCs are depicted attacking that enemy in accordance with their skills.
So let's say you went into that quest as an Archer. You'd be replacing the Archer NPC in the cutscene. You'd be depicted firing off a barrage of arrows in a stylized "Arrow Helix" move. As a Lancer? You'd replace the generic Lancer NPC. You'd be depicted jumping into the air and bringing down your lance upon the enemy.
It works! In fact, this model of cutscene approach could be applied to party-based storyline quests, too! -
04-29-2011, 02:23 AMAbriaelThat's what public quests are, and it's very possible that part of the company gameplay will entail just that. There are many games that feature public quests on the side of single player ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by Randis
But public quests can't support a complex storyline by themselves, as the presence of multiple people restricts a lot the storytelling possibilities.
Simply enough, any complex online storyline needs to deal with the incongruence that the same events happen to the same thousands of people. The only way to deal with that is to make the actual storyline part happen in a vacuum. -
04-29-2011, 02:28 AMRandisnot true in this case... did you ever notice your character actually talk? he only can shake head and make a sad face. That is all i see. that is what the rest of the party could do too, they could stand around and nod.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
yes i do hope that the companies will fill the hole. -
04-29-2011, 02:35 AMVerence
If they start giving PCs lines in cutscenes, they're dictating a personality for them separate from the player. That's sort of a no-go. People keep saying they want to be the hero (or at least more heroic), but at its core that argument can be reduced to "I want my character to do what I want them to do in cutscenes." How much louder would people howl if their character began to act out a role wholly independent of the one they had, consciously or unconsciously, assigned to them? The only way to stay "safe" is to minimize personality.
Note that this argument in no way reflects upon actions taken, unless those actions are further evidence of definite personality and not simple reactions to the environment (such as get attacked, trounce assailant or see freaking gigantic dragon, run like hell). -
04-29-2011, 02:38 AMAbriaelThe biggest problem is exactly that. That the main character only stands around and nods, making them a dullard without any kind of attractive and stage presence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Randis
This, by the way, doesn't solve the continuity problem at all, as the other characters talk to the main character, call him by name, interact directly with him. The introduction of other adventurers would require even more generic (and thus boring) dialogue.
Mind you, even if they introduced a feature like that, it still would run right into the wall of the continuty problem. Even if you brought a full group of 8 into each story cutscene with everyone nodding and prancing around like brainless dullards, with the NPCs delivering some ranmdom motivational speech to them all, it wouldn't solve the fact that there are thousands of other groups of 8 around, tho which exactly the same facts happen, exactly the same words are told, by exactly the same people.
The story would still happen in a vacuum, only a slightly bigger one.
On the other hand, a story happening in a complete vacuum gives the developer a MUCH wider storytelling freedom.
Mind you, it's not even incompatible with having other people involved, as in the screen of each platyer he can appear as the main "acting" character, and the others can be the nodding dullards.
They can give players the option to chose beteween a range of personalities, as we already do with path companions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Verence
The "flat dullard" personality, is *by itself* a personality. It already acts in a way that's "wholly indipendent" from the role anyone of us would like to assign to his character, and is in no way safe.
The fact that quite a lot of people have looked at their character acting like spineless idiots and wondered why the hell he was acting like that is the whole reason why threads like this (it's in no ways the first) exist.
the "spineless random dullard" is in no way more appealing or more generic than the "hero", it's just more unpleasant.
I'm quite sure that the vast majority of players would rather like to see his character act in pretty much any other way than as a random dullard weakling with no redeeming point. Give people options, and the risk of having the character act in a way the player won't like is *drastically reduced*, not increased. -
04-29-2011, 02:42 AMSilvertearRenThis is an interesting point you raise. It is a difficult balance to consider when you're thinking about personality. Lines are, I think, not necessary in the end when it comes to these cutscenes. To be honest, dialogue is not one of the key points of this thread, but in how we are depicted as an adventurer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Verence
Think of it like a third-party unauthorized documentary about your life as an adventurer filled with only shots of you standing agape at your seemingly powerful opponents, not even going for your weapon at all. Would you feel happy about the kind of perspective the producer of that documentary is presenting to the audience? -
04-29-2011, 02:42 AMNuru
There are as many heroes as there are Shadowlords being fought or have been fought in FFXI. Put it that way.
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04-29-2011, 02:44 AMLoony_BoB
In reply to the thread title: Or are we dancer!?
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04-29-2011, 02:45 AMAbriaelExactly, and each shadowlord exists only the personal dimension of any of those "heroes". That's how it's always been in MMORPG that feature traditional quests, and that's how it always should be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuru
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04-29-2011, 02:47 AMRandisIt does not have to be like this at all. I agree that changing the existing quests as they are would be a problem but imagine completely new quests created with the purpose to entertain a whole party.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
a player could be asked by the NPC to put a team together, once you
accept the quest you would have a symbol glowing next to your name with a little number for (rank)
you would invite people or people would ask you to join (even if they already have completed the quest)
once you have a party the NPC can address everyone by the name and those who are doing the quest for the first time are to be addressed by the NPC directly (as if they were the party leader)
You can not see how the dialog for other players is anyway and no one really would ask.
The quests could start out as simple as sending a party to kill some NM, or fight some instanced battle against the empire soldiers.
A good quest could be where you and your party are taken to some new area with a airship where you get to fight mids in a huge battle. you could be inside a small instance but all around you , you would see huge masses of NPC fighting eachother, explosions and all.
there are so many possibilities to generate cool content this days. -
04-29-2011, 02:48 AMNuru
lol I think that the most important thing of all is to just give our characters more involvement, more action sequences. I see videos of the cutscenes and its almost as if you are just watching other people hog all of the fun. You want to be involved with your own character, and how your character develops. I'm sure by Rank 46, your character should be buff enough to actually do something.
Thats what this is about, not exactly being a hero, but more of your own character involvement. They might as well just not have your character in the cutscene at all. -
04-29-2011, 02:52 AMSilvertearRenYou nailed it~... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Nuru
Someone earlier suggested an idea on how to approach this, and I fleshed it out - read the original post at the bottom, you'll find the description. It works. :3