For Shame, Mr. Yoshida - Being a Healer in 2026

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kohashi

Easy content is supposed to be brain-dead easy.. shocker I know.

Anyway, I appreciate dungeons that I have to run for the millionth time, and I can turn off my brain—a welcome respite.

---

Man I pay a monthly sub to play this game. I expect it to be FUN. Not just something I do to fill time or as chores.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GraceHorizon

I have encountered my fair share of bad players in Dawntrail content. A run of Skydeep Cenote comes to mind where the tank could not figure out how to avoid the final boss attacks that knocked him off the arena; because the healer also wasn’t on the ball, this led to 15-20 minutes of repeated wiping until the tank finally got his act together. A friend of mine is a DRK main who struggles with mitigations and takes most of my healing effort to keep alive in level 100 dungeons. Another friend is a DNC who has given up on the MSQ in 7.x because she can’t handle dungeon boss mechanics any more and is too discouraged. These players exist, and their subscription money spends just as well as ours. If you want to look down on them and exclude them, go ahead, but I think they deserve to be accommodated for the health of the game.

---

which also brings us back to the other topic we've been arguing in these boards for most of this expac, if not longer: the game's difficulty largely being shifted onto the content and less on job gameplay also hurts casual gameplay.

The game doesn't require jobs to be played well to clear normal content, but it does punish players for messing up a mechanic in an encounter much more heavily, and visibly so.

I don't get it. The content was hard, people complained so they made it easy. Later people complained again so at the start of DT they tried adding more difficulty to the Expert dungeons and then people once again complained that it was too hard so once again they have reverted to easy mode 'Expert' dungeons.

What do you really want? Make up your mind.

If we go back to older difficulty like ARR/HW then tanks are just going to die again because most casual healers can't do their jobs, I don't wanna be mean, but let's face it, the common casual healers are the worst players in the game to have in your party. You're just in for a bad time when they are in your party. Casual Tanks are pretty awful too, but at least with a good healer you can make up for the crap tank. You couldn't make up for crap healers before Tanks got the extra healing. You just had to suffer until they left or the instance got abandoned. I never wanna go back to those times personally.

That's one of the reasons the game was made so easy, Yoshi wants everyone to be able to play casually no matter their skill level, it's why we no longer have enrages in normal mode raids or trials. It's just part of the game now. Tanks are OP, no one is denying that, but it's just so everyone can clear the casual content no matter who in your group is bad.

If you're looking to have fun on healing roles then you should be heading to Extremes or Savage content as it's the only place you actually get to fully utilise your kit. Dungeons are whatever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GraceHorizon

To put it bluntly, demanding what you call a “functioning brain” from randomly matched casual players is unreasonable. Plenty of people are just here to mess around and be experience the story. They may not have prior MMO experience, or know what mechanics indicators mean or be used to the idea of having to figure out mechanics. Demanding more of players, or making it so one player’s poor performance can wipe the party, is just a recipe for frustration and recrimination. Save it for the optional content.

---

By the time you're doing Brayflox you've already done six dungeons, a trial and been pointed at the Hall of the Novice for "tutorials", plus you should have been doing job quests which are literally dressed up tutorials. It should be expectable that people know the basic mechanic indicators by then and have a basic understanding of their job's fundamentals (press mitigation for tankbuster, press heals when tank low, press buttons in general if dps). By level 50, if the game were designed properly, people would have practice doing their jobs and so the bar can rise gradually. So no, I don't believe that the demand of a functioning brain is unreasonable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GraceHorizon

I have encountered my fair share of bad players in Dawntrail content. A run of Skydeep Cenote comes to mind where the tank could not figure out how to avoid the final boss attacks that knocked him off the arena; because the healer also wasn’t on the ball, this led to 15-20 minutes of repeated wiping until the tank finally got his act together. A friend of mine is a DRK main who struggles with mitigations and takes most of my healing effort to keep alive in level 100 dungeons. Another friend is a DNC who has given up on the MSQ in 7.x because she can’t handle dungeon boss mechanics any more and is too discouraged. These players exist, and their subscription money spends just as well as ours. If you want to look down on them and exclude them, go ahead, but I think they deserve to be accommodated for the health of the game.

---

The agenda in this echo chamber is that anything in the game is baby easy. So if you fail doing the baby easy stuff, you suck and do not deserve to play the game at all.
Then I return into the real world, do a low level roulette (Qarn) , and the tank (all jobs maxed, iLvl over 9000) wipes the group twice by dying both times to three uninterrupted and unmitigated Final Stings.
Echo chamber vs. reality
Reality wins. FATALITY!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Asako

I don't get it. The content was hard, people complained so they made it easy. Later people complained again so at the start of DT they tried adding more difficulty to the Expert dungeons and then people once again complained that it was too hard so once again they have reverted to easy mode 'Expert' dungeons.

What do you really want? Make up your mind.

If we go back to older difficulty like ARR/HW then tanks are just going to die again because most casual healers can't do their jobs, I don't wanna be mean, but let's face it, the common casual healers are the worst players in the game to have in your party. You're just in for a bad time when they are in your party. Casual Tanks are pretty awful too, but at least with a good healer you can make up for the crap tank. You couldn't make up for crap healers before Tanks got the extra healing. You just had to suffer until they left or the instance got abandoned. I never wanna go back to those times personally.

That's one of the reasons the game was made so easy, Yoshi wants everyone to be able to play casually no matter their skill level, it's why we no longer have enrages in normal mode raids or trials. It's just part of the game now. Tanks are OP, no one is denying that, but it's just so everyone can clear the casual content no matter who in your group is bad.

If you're looking to have fun on healing roles then you should be heading to Extremes or Savage content as it's the only place you actually get to fully utilise your kit. Dungeons are whatever.

---

Different players having different opinions clashing with eachother? When one's content with the current state of the game they'd be less likely to post here and vice-versa, so it'd keep teetering one way or the other. They still refuse to reverse any job simplifications though.

I've also kinda assumed healers became the bad player sanctuary after they've been lobotomized in ShB also

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Asako

I don't get it. The content was hard, people complained so they made it easy. Later people complained again so at the start of DT they tried adding more difficulty to the Expert dungeons and then people once again complained that it was too hard so once again they have reverted to easy mode 'Expert' dungeons.

What do you really want? Make up your mind.

If we go back to older difficulty like ARR/HW then tanks are just going to die again because most casual healers can't do their jobs, I don't wanna be mean, but let's face it, the common casual healers are the worst players in the game to have in your party. You're just in for a bad time when they are in your party. Casual Tanks are pretty awful too, but at least with a good healer you can make up for the crap tank. You couldn't make up for crap healers before Tanks got the extra healing. You just had to suffer until they left or the instance got abandoned. I never wanna go back to those times personally.

That's one of the reasons the game was made so easy, Yoshi wants everyone to be able to play casually no matter their skill level, it's why we no longer have enrages in normal mode raids or trials. It's just part of the game now. Tanks are OP, no one is denying that, but it's just so everyone can clear the casual content no matter who in your group is bad.

If you're looking to have fun on healing roles then you should be heading to Extremes or Savage content as it's the only place you actually get to fully utilise your kit. Dungeons are whatever.

---

The good old infamous "if you're not happy just go play ultimates" :o

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aviatorhead

Man I pay a monthly sub to play this game. I expect it to be FUN. Not just something I do to fill time or as chores.

---

Nobody forces you to play something you don't enjoy. Anything else?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kohashi

Nobody forces you to play something you don't enjoy. Anything else?

---

Damn bro you are cooking gordan ramsey type of burn.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Asako

I don't get it. The content was hard, people complained so they made it easy. Later people complained again so at the start of DT they tried adding more difficulty to the Expert dungeons and then people once again complained that it was too hard so once again they have reverted to easy mode 'Expert' dungeons.

What do you really want? Make up your mind.

If we go back to older difficulty like ARR/HW then tanks are just going to die again because most casual healers can't do their jobs, I don't wanna be mean, but let's face it, the common casual healers are the worst players in the game to have in your party. You're just in for a bad time when they are in your party. Casual Tanks are pretty awful too, but at least with a good healer you can make up for the crap tank. You couldn't make up for crap healers before Tanks got the extra healing. You just had to suffer until they left or the instance got abandoned. I never wanna go back to those times personally.

That's one of the reasons the game was made so easy, Yoshi wants everyone to be able to play casually no matter their skill level, it's why we no longer have enrages in normal mode raids or trials. It's just part of the game now. Tanks are OP, no one is denying that, but it's just so everyone can clear the casual content no matter who in your group is bad.

If you're looking to have fun on healing roles then you should be heading to Extremes or Savage content as it's the only place you actually get to fully utilise your kit. Dungeons are whatever.

---

The first part I read made sense because the playerbase can't make up their mind, no matter what they do. Complain this, complain that - nobody is going to be completely satisfied because you can't pander to both crowds unless you make the content a mixed bag. You can't please everyone, but what's important is determining whether the complaint is valid or not.

I still remember back when when Vishap was literally the gate to Heavensward and everyone complained about it being a long, Monster Hunter-esque Trial. I actually enjoyed it myself when it was a Trial, but it was made piss easy so people don't have to struggle on Vishap right before Heavensward.

The rest of your argument falls apart because if we went back in time to the point where Tanks didn't have the extra healing? Healers were more busy healing than they were DPSing, unless you were good. And no, there's no Cleric Stance to cry about this time. I've had my share of the 'common casual healers', but you got to remember: They're still learning. The biggest problem with the XIV Community is really the inability to read, which just as much upsets PF as much as it does the next guy because they don't know what their buttons do or how to manage MP unlike a WHM spamming Cure III to heal everything.

What's more, is that by giving Tanks these "OP" options, it's not helping people. It's either denigrating them or perpetuating the problem. WAR is a primary source, but just about every tank except DRK can easily create this problem in current dungeon content. If you want me to point at the amount of times I've seen Tanks Solo Fights from 50% to 0, I can definitely count that more than the amount of fingers I have throughout both Endwalker and Dawntrail. Do I also have to relay that a influencer also did Healerless Dungeons on a Media Tour Build before Dawntrail launched? Because that's what the Bald Man did.

Healers won't learn how to heal or do anything if they are carried through a fight constantly - and the only way to learn is to actually put up a difficulty barrier of the bare minimum to entry and challenge healers to be using their buttons more when we get next expansion, as the next dungeon is more or less going to be more of the same.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kohashi

Nobody forces you to play something you don't enjoy. Anything else?

---

? It's not about being forced. Its about my favorite part of this game being taken away. I'm allowed to ask for it back and complain that it's gone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Azurarok

[...]I've also kinda assumed healers became the bad player sanctuary after they've been lobotomized in ShB also

---

Pretty much. SE decides to make one entire role 'for stupids'. Why do ppl think all of sudden 'common casual healers are the worst players in the game to have in your party' starts to become more prominent? Why of course, because they draw in those stupids! The other tiny fractions other than the stupids consists of those who somehow manage find the calm eye of the storm, while the rest either tolerates, seclude themselves to their own circle, or reaches their enlightenment that they leave the role. The last two always means that a pug spot will be vacated. Now guess who's likely going to fill in for that vacant spot? Again of course, most likely another stupid!

Wanting to heal more isn't necessarily the same as wanting the content to be harder. Problem is that they decided to put all the difficulty into fight design, and let the trinity burn.

Go do harder content? Guess what, you are still a glare bot, but you have to press more buttons occasionally at the same timed parts of the fight. have fun
Tank self healing and fight design is the reason healers are in a trash place. Since they are unwilling to change fight design, they should just embrace the green dps, and rework healers into having better dps kits, but they are unwilling to do that too, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I guess

I guess it’s easy to like that “nobody can be the weak link dragging the party down” when the way that materialises for you is to become the immortal god player and not the one turned into a cookie clicker simulator

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aviatorhead

? It's not about being forced. Its about my favorite part of this game being taken away. I'm allowed to ask for it back and complain that it's gone.

---

They moved away from the design you have been crying about for ages. Get a hint, my dude. SE going into fight difficulty over class difficulty has been a thing for a long time now. You are crying in vain. It's gone... not coming back.. Let it go.

Also, nothing is perfect and ideal. Everything has good and bad sides.

I always thought the job design in this game always.. let me say that again.. ALWAYS sucked ass. In ARR, In SB, in EW.. IN EVERY EXPANSION. But, there is other stuff which I appreciate, like the fight design of this game.

This game has the best fight design out of all I have tried, hands down, unparalleled and unmatched. So, I don't care if I get to press 1, 10 or 30 buttons. It's never about the buttons or that stupid, awful gearing system. It's about the fights for me! Also, if you think healing is brain dead, savage and Ults will absolutely humble you real fast.

I did every single tier of savage now (except Coils Savage), and ULTS still humble me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kohashi

They moved away from the design you have been crying about for ages. Get a hint, my dude. SE going into fight difficulty over class difficulty has been a thing for a long time now. You are crying in vain. It's gone... not coming back.. Let it go.

Also, nothing is perfect and ideal. Everything has good and bad sides.

I always thought the job design in this game always.. let me say that again.. ALWAYS sucked ass. In ARR, In SB, in EW.. IN EVERY EXPANSION. But, there is other stuff which I appreciate, like the fight design of this game.

This game has the best fight design out of all I have tried, hands down, unparalleled and unmatched. So, I don't care if I get to press 1, 10 or 30 buttons. It's never about the buttons or that stupid, awful gearing system. It's about the fights for me! Also, if you think healing is brain dead, savage and Ults will absolutely humble you real fast.

I did every single tier of savage now (except Coils Savage), and ULTS still humble me.

---

Well considering this focus on encounter design to the exclusion of job design has so thoroughly ruined casual content that the playerbase has massively dropped and dissatisfaction is very high might mean that “this is what square enix does” isn’t really a defence so much as it is simply square enix stubbornly clinging to a design that isn’t working

Throughout all the expansions criticism of the holistic set of casual content and job design has never been higher than it has in EW and DT

I watched a random Warrior themed video just last week and it explained that Warrior's almost purposely designed to be borderline invincible in the dungeon or FATE standard of mass pulling every mob, spamming AOEs, and watching the HP recovery role in for everything that you just hit individually. But then those same skills function perfectly fine and aren't unbalanced in almost everything else at level cap.

As soon as warriors are restricted to hitting one enemy in a boss battle situation in current content, Warrior suddenly loses most of those cracked out advantages that make healers redundant because simply not having ten mobs to suck HP from.

And suddenly the years of us healers collectively crying out for Warriors to be changed and getting nothing make total sense. The jobs are all designed and balanced around raids, trials, and especially ultimates, and Warrior is perfectly in line to the other tanks in all of that.

It's Warrior's gimmick to be the tank with self-sustain, and always has been so. But literally making it so they can't drain HP from everything they hit to only one mob at a time could probably eliminate the dungeon balance issue... While also eliminating 90% of Warrior mains from playing FFXIV anymore because tanks that don't want that drooling on their keyboard easy mode already play the other three tanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RedLolly

I watched a random Warrior themed video just last week and it explained that Warrior's almost purposely designed to be borderline invincible in the dungeon or FATE standard of mass pulling every mob, spamming AOEs, and watching the HP recovery role in for everything that you just hit individually. But then those same skills function perfectly fine and aren't unbalanced in almost everything else at level cap.

As soon as warriors are restricted to hitting one enemy in a boss battle situation in current content, Warrior suddenly loses most of those cracked out advantages that make healers redundant because simply not having ten mobs to suck HP from.

And suddenly the years of us healers collectively crying out for Warriors to be changed and getting nothing make total sense. The jobs are all designed and balanced around raids, trials, and especially ultimates, and Warrior is perfectly in line to the other tanks in all of that.

It's Warrior's gimmick to be the tank with self-sustain, and always has been so. But literally making it so they can't drain HP from everything they hit to only one mob at a time could probably eliminate the dungeon balance issue... While also eliminating 90% of Warrior mains from playing FFXIV anymore because tanks that don't want that drooling on their keyboard easy mode already play the other three tanks.

---

Going from “literally immortal” to “just as overpowered as the other tanks” isn’t a defence of WAR’s design

Even in single target BW does about 1000 healer potency of healing on a 25 second CD, that’s stronger than any healer heal in the game in ST, it also gets a ridiculous AOE shield and a self heal

AND bosses barely do any damage anyway because combat design has moved to “Simon says or blow up”

That 1000 potency every 25 seconds reduces single target healing for the healer by a ridiculous amount. When was the last time someone cast cure 2 in savage

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Going from “literally immortal” to “just as overpowered as the other tanks” isn’t a defence of WAR’s design

Even in single target BW does about 1000 healer potency of healing on a 25 second CD, that’s stronger than any healer heal in the game in ST, it also gets a ridiculous AOE shield and a self heal

AND bosses barely do any damage anyway because combat design has moved to “Simon says or blow up”

That 1000 potency every 25 seconds reduces single target healing for the healer by a ridiculous amount. When was the last time someone cast cure 2 in savage

---

No disagreement with this from me. All tanks are too OP. I think everyone agrees on this, and it just sucks that a few players doing the twice per expansion ultimate fight and it's requirements dictate the game for the rest of us, and 4 expansions of that has annihilated casual content combat.

"We needed to use Warrior's 50% party heal every other minute to beat the EU team by 25 seconds in the world first race."

"Well, I guess we can't nerf it then. You heard them say they needed it."

It just keeps happening like this.

Early FFXIV made me realize I love playing healers in games, but I've been a DPS main since late ShB. At this point I think I am on the side of just making healers green DPS with proper damage rotations.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hyperia

What I want is self sustains to be disabled in 4+ player content and only be able to use their heals and buffs solo or small party.

---

I'd rather they weren't disabled, but just bloody replaced with something USEFUL. As a DPS main, I often forget I even have Role Actions because its so goddamn rare I actually get to use them, even when solo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aidorouge

I'd rather they weren't disabled, but just bloody replaced with something USEFUL. As a DPS main, I often forget I even have Role Actions because its so goddamn rare I actually get to use them, even when solo.

---

The amount of deaths resulting from a fight suddenly requiring our knockback resisting skills would be remembered forever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RedLolly

The amount of deaths resulting from a fight suddenly requiring our knockback resisting skills would be remembered forever.

---

Arm's Length is ironically one of the few Role Actions I get to use, but it's usually for the Slow effect if the tank manages to die or forgot to turn on their stance, or when I am in fact running around solo.

When it comes to most of the fights with knockback, it's more about just standing in the right place to not get sent into something or over the edge, which is a picture perfect example of current encounter design where the best/only solution to the mechanic is to move to the correct spot and and not actual proper skill usage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aidorouge

which is a picture perfect example of current encounter design where the best/only solution to the mechanic is to move to the correct spot and and not actual proper skill usage.

---

That's an obvious pain point. This game turned into a memory game, not an expression of skill. Just learn the fight, press your buttons and you're golden. Difficulty is all in forgetting simon says, which this development team has been actively pushing away many players with said mechanics... They're doubling down so hard on this shoddy game design (can't change my mind. If I want to play a memory game, I'd do that. Give me reactionary rewards. What ever happened to 'oh god, that's a big aoe, gotta get out in time.' Now it's 'what AoE? Oh, now to remember that call next time' since there is barely any tell anymore in most fights) it bled into casual content.

I see people still keep pulling out the "Well, go play harder content" card.

I don't think the people who want to heal more are looking for the current savage style of gameplay where you spreadsheet the correct spots to put your tools or you instantly die, and where any mistake made by someone stepping outside of the script will more often than not lead to a raise being required and not a heal. Modern savage doesn't teach you triage, it teaches you that people who make mistakes are a burden.

Play an Extreme or Savage and watch them complain for not healing and shielding enough ahaha

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tsuchii

Play an Extreme or Savage and watch them complain for not healing and shielding enough ahaha

---

I found that when properly executed, the amount of healing in a Savage raid is downright minimal and with the proper comp, clearable without healers. Same thing goes with Ultimates, the right comp and healers are 100% optional.

So, yea, I've already done harder content, and unless you're on prog, healing is still optional.

As I have said before, if they want us to heal more, we need:
1. Continuous white damage on the tanks with periodic crits
2. Tank busters that really are tank busters and can bring a tank down to 50% or less even with perfect mitigation
3. Unavoidable AOE damage on the raid at random intervals
4. Frequent, random minor white damage on raid members, besides tanks. Boss turns, smacks somebody and goes back to tanks
5. Fights need to be more random and less scripted, have the boss react to what the players are doing and adjust
6. No more one hit kills, let the vulnerability stacks do their thing
7. Same with one mistake wipes the raid, except for tanks, let the enrage do its thing

I highly doubt that any of these changes would be made as it would require deviating from the copy paste / cookie cutter style design of the fights.

I'll start to have real hope for the healer role the moment they change Free Cure and Enhanced Benefic into a trait that upgrades Cure and Benefic into Cure 2 and Benefic 2.

"8.0 will save the game, investors and shareholders; please do not quit. Please look forward to it."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tsuchii

Play an Extreme or Savage and watch them complain for not healing and shielding enough ahaha

---

You mean the content that (like ultimates) has multiple examples of 0-1 healer clears showing that the healing demand there still doesnt justify our kit?

Interesting that the for healers the solution to have fun is "go play less than 10% of the game", sounds like a really good design (?)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WaxSw

You mean the content that (like ultimates) has multiple examples of 0-1 healer clears showing that the healing demand there still doesnt justify our kit?

---

Just so we are clear, there are also no-Tank clears of those same Ultimates, the fact it can be cleared without Healers because there were 4 PLD in there spamming Clemency is less evidence of Healer kit being pointless, and more that if the Tanks are able to sacrifice their DPS completely they still can kinda sorta get by.

Extremely optimized gimmick runs don't mean anything other than there are people who are willing to make those gummick runs work.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aravell

I see people still keep pulling out the "Well, go play harder content" card.

I don't think the people who want to heal more are looking for the current savage style of gameplay where you spreadsheet the correct spots to put your tools or you instantly die, and where any mistake made by someone stepping outside of the script will more often than not lead to a raise being required and not a heal. Modern savage doesn't teach you triage, it teaches you that people who make mistakes are a burden.

---

Yes. IDK why every time this conversation is had there's a group of people (not you) who think "healing should be required and a bit more involved in content that isn't hard" means "Person saying that hasn't tried savage' because like. I've tried savage. I'm not asking for savage. I want a version of the casual game that has already existed at some point, one where healers actually mattered in casual content.

Every time someone says Go Try Savage they're just highlighting how much they can't read/didn't actually think about what's being dicussed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aravell

I see people still keep pulling out the "Well, go play harder content" card.

I don't think the people who want to heal more are looking for the current savage style of gameplay where you spreadsheet the correct spots to put your tools or you instantly die, and where any mistake made by someone stepping outside of the script will more often than not lead to a raise being required and not a heal. Modern savage doesn't teach you triage, it teaches you that people who make mistakes are a burden.

---

This pretty much sums it up.
The overwhelming majority of savage doesn't have healing checks, it has "can your tanks and DPS press their mitigation buttons?"-check.

And if someone messes up a mechanic best case they just flat out die, worst case they send the entire party back to the starting line.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kohashi

I always thought the job design in this game always.. let me say that again.. ALWAYS sucked ass. In ARR, In SB, in EW.. IN EVERY EXPANSION.

---

The man wasn't even playing before SHB :'D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tsuchii

Play an Extreme or Savage and watch them complain for not healing and shielding enough ahaha

---

This point is irrelevant since those fights and Ultimates are clearable with tanks healing themselves/their party because their mitigation and self-sustain is too strong. Which is the exact problem that healers keep bringing up over and over and over and over and over ...

Giving tanks very powerful self-sustain and mitigation is the main reason why healers became nothing more then spamming single DPS skill like 95% of time in normal group content and it's a main reason why i stopped playing as a healer entirely in patch 6.5 when i got so tired of spamming single DPS skill 95% of time.

This "just do extreme trials, unreal trials, savage raids, ultimate raids and chaotic alliance raids if you want do more healing as a healer" is getting old and people needs to understand that the healers job should always being all about keeping party members alive in every group content but now when healers need to heal party members is pretty much mostly gone in normal group content, it starter to causing new type of problem in normal group content where healers started to rely too much on tanks doing the "healers job" while focusing on doing damage only and let DPS players die on bosses unvoidable attacks.
And yes this is something that have been happening to me more often recently when i play as DPS where bosses unvoidable attacks are only damage i take but when healers won't heal me, i ended up dying on bosses unvoidable attacks even i do all my best keeping my self alive by using self-sustain and/or mitigation skills i have.


I really miss 2.0 and 3.0 times when healers actually had to focus more on healing to keeping party members alive in every group content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aviatorhead

Yes. IDK why every time this conversation is had there's a group of people (not you) who think "healing should be required and a bit more involved in content that isn't hard" means "Person saying that hasn't tried savage' because like. I've tried savage. I'm not asking for savage. I want a version of the casual game that has already existed at some point, one where healers actually mattered in casual content.

Every time someone says Go Try Savage they're just highlighting how much they can't read/didn't actually think about what's being dicussed.

---

What gets me is every time healers bring up the terrible balancing, there are always tanks that come in just to ego trip about how much better their role is and refusing to even read why their partner role is suffering. It's so toxic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RedLolly

What gets me is every time healers bring up the terrible balancing, there are always tanks that come in just to ego trip about how much better their role is and refusing to even read why their partner role is suffering. It's so toxic.

---

The problem is that SE has left the Tanks to get accustomed to this paradigm, and their current surviveability levels. Which means that any suggestion of moving the needle back the other way, towards what we had in earlier expansions (IE Stormblood), is perceived by Tanks not as 'rectifying a problem', but 'SE HATES Tanks and is nerfing them into the ground'.

For example, any time I've posted the idea of 'hey what if we just take every Tank self-heal action, and 1:1 convert it into self-barrier', it gets met with at least 3 players saying that it'd be a nerf to the Tank role and that it's a terrible idea. Personally, I think that, for example, WAR having access to a 1200p Barrier (plus 5 stacks of 200p layered Barriers for counteracting DOTs/autoattacks), on a 60s CD (via Equilibrium) would be a hefty buff to surviveability, not a nerf

It's like the 'no take, only throw' meme. Healers are only allowed to get changes, if said changes don't remove anything from Tanks (even things that Tanks should not have in the first place). They want any solution for Healers to be one that does not impact their 'fun' as a Tank, but refuse to acknowledge that part of the 'fun' they now enjoy was taken from the Healers in the first place. Which is why I think the self-mit idea has some merit, it's undeniably more thematic for the role (reducing damage instead of healing it back), it puts Healing back in the hands of the Healers, and since the potencies would be converted 1:1 any supposed 'SE nerfed Tanks' complaints would hold zero water

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

Just so we are clear, there are also no-Tank clears of those same Ultimates, the fact it can be cleared without Healers because there were 4 PLD in there spamming Clemency is less evidence of Healer kit being pointless, and more that if the Tanks are able to sacrifice their DPS completely they still can kinda sorta get by.

Extremely optimized gimmick runs don't mean anything other than there are people who are willing to make those gummick runs work.

---

The fact that ON PATCH an ultimate can be cleared, systematically, without relying on both healers kits, no matter if its 4 paladins spamming clemency or 8 rdm spamming vercure shows that the hps required for that duty is not high enough, period.

Healer kits have been degraded to make room for heals and when asked for more we were told to go do ultimates just for those same ultimates to not require us to push those heals to the limit. There is a fundamental disconnection between the healer kit and healer gameplay that hasn't been addressed for years and those ultimates and savage clears (and I cannot stress this enough) ON PATCH, are the biggest example of that.

And before you bring no tank or no dps clears, there hasnt been a single ultimate cleared on patch without dps and the only one solo/no tank clear on patch has been FRU meanwhile healers see this on every ultimate, from DSR, TOP, FRU and even TEA so its not the same, especially when tanks and dps dont have a gameplay that boils down to press 1 button the moment the party is mildly competent

The only time healers have fun, now, is when you get at least two new people in a fight, or one person having a really bad day. When things go right, healing is the most boring thing to do in this game. You mess up enough where I get to fully flex my kit, you are getting a comm as a thanks for letting me play my job.

One thing is being able to do so in old content.
Completely another thing was when I watched, at a moment of Dawntrail release, a tank solo entire boss of Vanguard dungeon, alone, start to end. Nobody should be able to pull such thing off in a dungeon that was just released in current patch. This game has insane balance issues. In fact it probably is worst out of all games I ever played.