Limit housing bids for FCs

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Originally Posted by s32ialx

1-2-5 man FC's first off you need a minimum of 4 members to bid so those 1 -2 -3 man FC's can't even bid.

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4 members which can be 4 characters from the same account and not 4 distinct accounts. All that is needed is a friend or a temporary 2nd account to invite alts.

SE would avoid a lot of that BS and ease the demand if they allowed the sharing of private houses with alts and added a chest to share things. It's possible to have complete strangers as tenants but not alts which is stupid.

The only way to share between alts is by making an fc which also comes with additional perks, especially if you get a house (fc chest which is in itself a desirable feature even without a house; workshops if people care about that; GC bonuses; quick, direct and cheap travel to access to vendors, retainers, armoire, aesthetician, menders, gardening for all, lutilities with bonuses for leveling DoH; market board without crowd noise as well as - for fans of decorating - fc rooms without the risk of someone kicking people out, etc. )

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Originally Posted by JoyfulSong

So my FC is at gil cap. We're actually about to be there twice, out of sheer spite, because we keep losing bids. We've got a lot of omnicrafters. We've worked hard to earn this gil, and we've been hyper-vigilant about bidding on FC only plots in hopes of grabbing up a plot and freeing up our current one for someone to use. We're 40-60 people, depending on how badly Square Enix decides to make their expansions. There have been points where we've bid on FC exclusive plots (we won't bid on personal/FC combos out of principle–) with 25-30 tickets and STILL SOMEHOW LOST to Suzy Subs-a-lot and her 5 man FC (mostly made of the world's most obvious alts.) Months will go by and nothing will be done with the plot, time passes, and those of us playing the game through massive content droughts get to watch the whole thing rot.

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I commend you for being at Gil Cap. I don't deny the effort you and your FC have put into trying to get a plot, but it proves my point with what you've said. I think it's disheartening from both sides. If you're people who've put in the effort to get a house, whether it's large or small, I still think limiting it to 1-2 people per FC would give people a fair chance to get it.

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Originally Posted by JoyfulSong

At what point are big, active FCs supposed to cater to someone who grabbed a bunch of their alts and decided to make a group just to bid on a large that's mostly empty to begin with? How is that fair to the people who've put in the effort? Why punish bigger groups of people just because you can't get the numbers out to place more bids?

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Even if it is an FC comprised of only alts, they can still sway the overall unfair bid. I don't condone alt-based FCs behaving like this either, because it still counts towards swaying a bid.

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Originally Posted by JoyfulSong

There are people out there with 1 man, 2 man, 5 man FCs and you're out here pointing blame at people with the time, effort, and money to place multiple bids? You're ON MATEUS – I know you know about Main Ward 12 of the Goblet – and here you are pointing the finger at people who have put in significant effort to get the resources needed to put out multiple bids?

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And you're saying that smaller FCs haven't put in significant effort to get the Gil they need to bid either? Yes, I am on Mateus, as are you, and we regrettably both have to fight tooth and nail to get a plot. I also don't understand the reference to the Goblet, nor do I really think it was a necessary inclusion. Regardless, you can have two people or forty people who've worked for the Gil; they want to bid for a house, but just swaying a bid feels gross on either end. It can be disheartening if you're a big FC to lose a spot to a smaller one, but it is also equally disheartening if you're a small FC that's put in the effort equally as much just to see a veritable flood of people who already own an FC house to claim it

2 or 40 people don't really matter cause as bidders stack up your odds drop like dead flies. If you are chasing a large or Medium your begging for disappointment has they are always going to have the highest number of bidders.

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Originally Posted by JoyfulSong

So my FC is at gil cap. We're actually about to be there twice, out of sheer spite, because we keep losing bids.

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At gil cap, you could recruit an awful lot of people to put in an awful lot of bits for your FC.

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Originally Posted by Crafoutis

At Gil Cap, you could recruit an awful lot of people to put in an awful lot of bits for your FC.

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They already said they did that with up to 25-30 of their members bidding, but have lost to smaller fcs, which (granted, I am biased, considering my post's content to begin with) is entirely unfair to do, especially since they said they already own a house but want to move.

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Originally Posted by BloodiedTongues

They already said they did that with up to 25-30 of their members bidding, but have lost to smaller fcs, which (granted, I am biased, considering my post's content to begin with) is entirely unfair to do, especially since they said they already own a house but want to move.

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They are being dishonest then, 25-30 people bidding against 'smaller FC's' and losing? For months? How small are these FC's? 4 people? 20 people?

They're either being hyperbolic or they're lying, it's one of the two.

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Originally Posted by Crafoutis

They are being dishonest then, 25-30 people bidding against 'smaller FC's' and losing? For months? How small are these FC's? 4 people? 20 people?

They're either being hyperbolic or they're lying, it's one of the two.

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Yes its possible same way people who buy multiple lotto tickets a month win nothing, just for joe nobody to buy one ticket and suddenly win millions.

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Originally Posted by BloodiedTongues

One issue i've found (more-so lately with the influx of houses available on NA worlds) is that FC bids can be swayed severely in favour of a free company when 20+ people from one FC bid on one plot.

Whilst I understand everyone gets a chance to bid on a property, Free Companies using their entire FC to bid on one plot is just entirely unfair. Watching crowds of one FC just making the lotto numbers shoot up is just awful.

Limiting it to one or two people per FC being able to bid on an FC-Exclusive plot would make it far more fair, as the housing system is already like pulling hen's teeth to even get a plot.

Limit the bids, introduce new subdivisions and wards, let people have a chance.

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No, if they have more members to bid and win then good for them. It means that potentially large plot will serve more people and that's a good thing with the current scarcity.

I'm going to have to disagree with this argument purely by stating the obvious opposite argument.

If your suggestion is entertained, then we will start having large FCs coming in here complaining that they have 30, 40, 100 man FCs that are constantly losing to 4 man FCs and how unfair that is. That they should be allowed to bid with all of their active members, and that allowing some small 4 man FC to have the same bidding power is unfair when they have 100 active members daily who have no house to hang out at.

The truth of the matter is, Carfoutis's argument is the better argument. Benefiting 100 people is a better net result than benefiting 4.

(As a related note, I notice a LOT of arguments on this housing forum are made by people that want changes that specifically benefit just them, but when analyzed as a whole, would hurt the large majority of player base. No change should ever be made that benefits a small number of people while hurting a much larger percentage of people. This suggestion is just another like that.)

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Yes its possible same way people who buy multiple lotto tickets a month win nothing, just for joe nobody to buy one ticket and suddenly win millions.

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Not at all the same probabilities.

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Originally Posted by BloodiedTongues

I know myself that I won’t be touching WoW’s housing until we get Nelf/Belf specific stuff.

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idk if you have seen or its been said, but Blood Elf and Night Elf designs are coming at housing launch as well as orc and human, with all other races are being added later. Silvermoon is also getting an overhaul.

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Originally Posted by Rolks

I'm going to have to disagree with this argument purely by stating the obvious opposite argument.

If your suggestion is entertained, then we will start having large FCs coming in here complaining that they have 30, 40, 100 man FCs that are constantly losing to 4 man FCs and how unfair that is. That they should be allowed to bid with all of their active members, and that allowing some small 4 man FC to have the same bidding power is unfair when they have 100 active members daily who have no house to hang out at.

The truth of the matter is, Carfoutis's argument is the better argument. Benefiting 100 people is a better net result than benefiting 4.

(As a related note, I notice a LOT of arguments on this housing forum are made by people that want changes that specifically benefit just them, but when analyzed as a whole, would hurt the large majority of player base. No change should ever be made that benefits a small number of people while hurting a much larger percentage of people. This suggestion is just another like that.)

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So, whilst I can't deny that I do want a better chance for my benefit, I have stated that from both angles, it's pretty unfair to lose to a large or small FC based on bids. It's why I've also noted a good couple of times that limiting it for everyone would still be more fair than 40 vs like 3 people. I also stated that one of my other main gripes is places where FCs already own a house and just want to move for the sake of moving

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

idk if you have seen or its been said, but Blood Elf and Night Elf designs are coming at housing launch as well as orc and human, with all other races are being added later. Silvermoon is also getting an overhaul.

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I have seen! I mean the zones themselves. I know Silvermoon is getting an overhaul, i'm a terrible elf enjoyer so most if not all elf content is beamed directly into my cranium. I mean zones like Eversong, Ashenvale, Suramar, I'm weak. But i'll try not to get too off topic with my pointy enjoying self.

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Originally Posted by BloodiedTongues

I have seen! I mean the zones themselves. I know Silvermoon is getting an overhaul, i'm a terrible elf enjoyer so most if not all elf content is beamed directly into my cranium. I mean zones like Eversong, Ashenvale, Suramar, I'm weak. But i'll try not to get too off topic with my pointy enjoying self.

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Totally get it, I am almost always elves myself. Almost all my WoW characters are elves and those that are not are only something else because elves cannot be that class. I am super excited for the Silvermood redo, the pics I have seen look amazing

i think they should just add more FC only wards to the districts i think this would help alleviate some of the multiple bidder concerns and allow for people to have more chances at obtainment.

After the first big lottery takes place.If no one claims it, it should become open to pvt ownership

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Originally Posted by Crafoutis

I think FC's that represent more active people should in fact get more votes, as more people will benefit from having the house.

System is working as intended. FC's more deserving of a house and in a greater need that can positively benefit more people, can provide more lotto entries.

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I absolutely agree with you!!

I think the system couldn't be more fair, honestly.

Yes, of course it sucks that a large FC can bid 5+ more times than you, but keep in mind you need to have 5+ different accounts (you can't bid with your alts, the game is aware of which characters are and aren't yours) and the full price for every single bid.
So take the price of the house and multiply it by the amount of accounts in your FC that have been there for over 30 days = the amount of money you need to place as many bids as humanly possible for your FC.

In my old FC's case it was 7 accounts, which turned out to be 350M total because we were going for a 50M mansion.

You have to have all that gil at the same time and distribute the appropriate amount between everyone to bid (you should also make sure you trust these people to not run away with your gil). When you have a lot of bids you can place, it's also important to place them asap to intimidate others into choosing a different plot. That is why people will often advise you to wait until the last possible moment to bid on a house, since everyone is done with their bid dumping and you can see which house has the least competition.

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Originally Posted by Shistar

... you need to have 5+ different accounts (you can't bid with your alts, the game is aware of which characters are and aren't yours)

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that works only for private bids.

on fc bids you can bid with 8 characters on the same fc plot

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Originally Posted by MAJRIS

that works only for private bids.

on fc bids you can bid with 8 characters on the same fc plot

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That only works when you don't own a personal plot, you get the error if you try bidding with any other character besides the one that owns the personal plot.

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Originally Posted by MAJRIS

that works only for private bids.

on fc bids you can bid with 8 characters on the same fc plot

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The assumption that an FC with 100 members automatically has 100 potential bids is a major misconception.
In reality, most FCs only have a small group of truly active “core” members, in which often just a dozen or so.
At best, you’ll get a handful of bids from this core group.

Many of the other members either aren’t interested in housing, don’t participate in bidding, or simply lack the gills to contribute.
On top of that, if a core member already owns an FC plot on an alternate character, they are not eligible to place another bid.
When people lose a lottery, they often look at the winning FC’s roster and assume every member participated, but that’s just judging from the surface.
Large plots usually attract more than 100 bids, so this misconception that FC size equals bid power is really far off the mark.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

The assumption that an FC with 100 members automatically has 100 potential bids is a major misconception.
In reality, most FCs only have a small group of truly active “core” members, in which often just a dozen or so.
At best, you’ll get a handful of bids from this core group.

Many of the other members either aren’t interested in housing, don’t participate in bidding, or simply lack the gills to contribute.
On top of that, if a core member already owns an FC plot on an alternate character, they are not eligible to place another bid.
When people lose a lottery, they often look at the winning FC’s roster and assume every member participated, but that’s just judging from the surface.
Large plots usually attract more than 100 bids, so this misconception that FC size equals bid power is really far off the mark.

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I mean, not really? Granted, I am in a congested world, but I see up to 20+ people from one FC all go bid on a plot each bidding period, so it isn't exactly out of the question. It's not a misconception as it does happen pretty often enough

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Originally Posted by BloodiedTongues

I mean, not really? Granted, I am in a congested world, but I see up to 20+ people from one FC all go bid on a plot each bidding period, so it isn't exactly out of the question. It's not a misconception as it does happen pretty often enough

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I’m not sure if you’re aware of the holes in your argument.
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but housing bids are completely anonymous
You don’t see the names of who actually placed bids.
So how do you know that “20+ from one FC” are all bidding on plots each period?

If that really gave an advantage, as you claim, then why is that same FC still bidding every single period?
From my perspective, it seems like you’re just assuming that every member of a large FC participates simply because they have a big roster; unless you can present evidence that I might not be aware of.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

I’m not sure if you’re aware of the holes in your argument.
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but housing bids are completely anonymous
You don’t see the names of who actually placed bids.
So how do you know that “20+ from one FC” are all bidding on plots each period?

If that really gave an advantage, as you claim, then why is that same FC still bidding every single period?
From my perspective, it seems like you’re just assuming that every member of a large FC participates simply because they have a big roster; unless you can present evidence that I might not be aware of.

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No, I don’t see the names of who bids, but when said FC is there in a large group, all going up to the sign, targeting it then leaving as the bid numbers go up, it’s safe to assume that they are bidding with said large group. I’ve stated in multiple previous comments that free companies can and will just bid on a different house if they want to move, there are many. FCs across data centres that do this.

I’m also not saying it’s one FC that does this all the time, it’s multiple that do it.

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Originally Posted by BloodiedTongues

I mean, not really? Granted, I am in a congested world, but I see up to 20+ people from one FC all go bid on a plot each bidding period, so it isn't exactly out of the question.

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intimidation tactics. FC X's people swarming the placard? oh, surely i won't have a chance now...
when in reality just handful of them are writing tickets in.

%100000 agree with you. However, I knew a person with 30 alts and at least 999m gil buy 15 large houses within 2 bidding cycles. A fair chance would be giving every player a chance to buy the house of their choice, albeit a large, mid or small; for an FC or Private house and then place it together assigned to a new area with others. That isn't very feasible on server data or practicality. But that would be the fairest way.

One person having gil cap hardly matters. There are very few people with that amount of gil. And I don't see the problem with a wealthy person giving fc members gil to bid for their fc. They have to trust that person or it won't work.

Many fcs jus have a handful of people bid at most.

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Originally Posted by Crafoutis

They are being dishonest then, 25-30 people bidding against 'smaller FC's' and losing? For months? How small are these FC's? 4 people? 20 people?

They're either being hyperbolic or they're lying, it's one of the two.

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Well golly, it's a good thing I keep receipts, huh? We got our medium last year. Let's walk down memory lane, shall we?
https://i.ibb.co/23z5BgKH/idiot.png
https://i.ibb.co/fznrD9bY/idiot2.png
https://i.ibb.co/20Xhgj3q/idiot4.png

And that's not including the one we just lost this morning by one digit on Shirogane 29, 16 to – surprise surprise, another 10 man FC.

These are just the ones we tracked, btw. And that's assuming there's even a large dropping at all. Which most of the time...there isn't. Or it's a personal. I'm sorry I don't agree that an FC with 10 people should get a large because they got lucky over the group of 50-60 people that worked tirelessly only to continue to get shafted by RNG nearly every week. A *year* of meticulously tracking who has what gil, where it went, how much we need, if everybody put it back correctly. Over. And Over. And Over.

The MOST actual, LITERAL gil cap will get you is 25 tickets. That is, at MOST, at 25% chance to get it, as there's bids of literal hundreds. The HIGHEST percentage chance we've ever had was 31% And you're out here getting onto 50+ man FCs putting in bids when Ward 12 of the Goblet on this server is owned by two people? Dafuq outta here with that.

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Originally Posted by JoyfulSong

I'm sorry I don't agree that an FC with 10 people should get a large because they got lucky over the group of 50-60 people that worked tirelessly only to continue to get shafted by RNG nearly every week. A *year* of meticulously tracking who has what gil, where it went, how much we need, if everybody put it back correctly. Over. And Over. And Over.

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All FCs should have a chance to have whatever size they want. I have a smaller FC and have a large in Ishgard when they were new, we won with 3 others bidding becides us, and the other three were other small-ish FCs. Do we not deserve the house just because we don't have as many people?
I sincerely hope that your FC can get a large eventually, just don't be bitter towards other groups that are just doing the same thing you are doing. (I will agree to the fact that I think FCs should only be permitted 1 entry per house, however, regardless of size)

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Originally Posted by JoyfulSong

I'm sorry I don't agree that an FC with 10 people should get a large because they got lucky over the group of 50-60 people that worked tirelessly only to continue to get shafted by RNG nearly every week.

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I feel your struggle. It's tough out there, but as the playerbase wanes right before a patch it's a great time to check for any upgrades you can bid on. Congratulations on your medium!

However, it's not the 10-person FC's fault that you lost. The lottery is completely equal chance for everyone, and your FC is already allowed to tip the odds in their favor as much as possible by introducing multiple bids. A personal estate bid in a mixed ward is by far the one at the most disadvantage.

I won't say the system is perfect, or even good, but it is fair.
Everyone is allowed equal chance, and until SE gives us a more permanent solution such as instanced housing or expanded neighborhoods, this system is by far the least predatory iteration they've made.
No rushing needed, no putting your health at risk clicking away the hours at a placard, no unfairness related to buying a fresh plot vs. relocating. So I'll give credit where credit is due, this system gets the job done. Now they just need to tackle the medium and large scarcity (which I believe Tardis housing should help alleviate, but won't fix completely)

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Originally Posted by Shistar

I feel your struggle. It's tough out there, but as the playerbase wanes right before a patch it's a great time to check for any upgrades you can bid on. Congratulations on your medium!

However, it's not the 10-person FC's fault that you lost. The lottery is completely equal chance for everyone, and your FC is already allowed to tip the odds in their favor as much as possible by introducing multiple bids. A personal estate bid in a mixed ward is by far the one at the most disadvantage.

I won't say the system is perfect, or even good, but it is fair.
Everyone is allowed equal chance, and until SE gives us a more permanent solution such as instanced housing or expanded neighborhoods, this system is by far the least predatory iteration they've made.
No rushing needed, no putting your health at risk clicking away the hours at a placard, no unfairness related to buying a fresh plot vs. relocating. So I'll give credit where credit is due, this system gets the job done. Now they just need to tackle the medium and large scarcity (which I believe Tardis housing should help alleviate, but won't fix completely)

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I noticed everyone asked for the lottery system because it was fair, but when they got it, now players started requesting ways to stack the odds in their favor. Everyone loves fair, when they think it works in their favor.

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Originally Posted by JoyfulSong

Well golly, it's a good thing I keep receipts, huh? We got our medium last year. Let's walk down memory lane, shall we?
https://i.ibb.co/23z5BgKH/idiot.png
https://i.ibb.co/fznrD9bY/idiot2.png
https://i.ibb.co/20Xhgj3q/idiot4.png

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Golly gosh gee williker, those 'receipts' detail absolutely nothing.

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Originally Posted by Crafoutis

Golly gosh gee williker, those 'receipts' detail absolutely nothing.

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Then you're either blind or illiterate because I see it plainly lol. They posted threads about when they were bidding for a FC plot multiple times. Why are you always so mean such as bragging about winning a large in Exodus when you still have a small in Goblet just to rub it in because someone voiced their frustration from losing? I even checked prior, you have had the same small all this time.

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Originally Posted by Rinoa_353

Then you're either blind or illiterate because I see it plainly lol. They posted threads about when they were bidding for a FC plot multiple times. Why are you always so mean such as bragging about winning a large in Exodus when you still have a small in Goblet just to rub it in because someone voiced their frustration from losing? I even checked prior, you have had the same small all this time.

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*hugs* thank you for standing up for people love. You are a good person. <3

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Originally Posted by JoyfulSong

Well golly, it's a good thing I keep receipts, huh? We got our medium last year. Let's walk down memory lane, shall we?
https://i.ibb.co/23z5BgKH/idiot.png
https://i.ibb.co/fznrD9bY/idiot2.png
https://i.ibb.co/20Xhgj3q/idiot4.png

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Thanks about this, fr. As weirdo who likes to make bunch on progression notes, this is interesting to read. : )

I recently got lucky myself finishing two big plot hunts one of which I've been on since 2023 December.
Why I remember it awkwardly by year and month like that? I won FC mansion then, Dec/2023, and after that I decided to try for private medium-- because I was moving to new server and it felt like stupid enough dream goal; new server was bigger and busier than last one. Around 22months later, private medium is here!
I didn't write the dates to my notes, because i was just interested to see how many rounds of losing it would take: it's 32. I seem to have location data of over 40 plots saved, so some of those rounds had more than 1 choice. I wanted specific size from housing area X, so i wasn't picky with which one of the M sized plots it was, but the right area was must.

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Originally Posted by JoyfulSong

I'm sorry I don't agree that an FC with 10 people should get a large because they got lucky over the group of 50-60 people that worked tirelessly only to continue to get shafted by RNG nearly every week.

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Lets say half of the tickets are 10 player fcs, that already means like 10 of those (as im sure 190 isnt the last number - and almost never its all the people in an fc, but for this argument it doesnt matter as its about ratios). This means there is a 50% chance such fc gets it.
Your 50 people, even if they all spend a ticket, still only reach 25%.

But it does get worse for most, people plenty of large fcs do get the 25% luck in their favor, they wont be complaining at all. So as a result, the ones who complain on the forums are the outliers, and the number of fcs reaching 4 attempts at a 25% success rate is 30%. Which is still higher than your odds of winning. So the forums will make the situation appear worse than it is.

If we consider a year with a 10 day cycle, that is 35 attempts. And a less than 0.1% win chance. Its highly unlikely you actualy had this so i just dont believe that you actualy faced this, its far more likely that of your 50 people only like 15 entered the lotery, and for those 10 people fcs, it might have been 5. This then throws the number around a lot.
While 50% of the tickets might still be for the 10p fcs (i realy dont know the fc size distribution), your fc now ends up only having 5% chance, and after a year that still means only an 85% chance of winning once.

But that also ignores the part that there might not always be a large house available. So maybe its less rolls with more tickets. Yet if larges are that scarce, they might also have a lot more tickets involved. I heard that there have been cases of 400 or 500 tickets involved. 50 tickets then is still just a 10% chance.

RNG is painful when the odds just dont seem to happen, but its a fair system. Are there better systems, that as well (repeated entering should realy give a boost in odds). But just because you are unlucky for quite some time doesnt mean anything, as thats the nature of rng.

Even in large FCs, there is usualy just a small portion that cares about housing, an fc of 100 people might still have a similar amount to a 20 people fc. Most people wont get the chance to do anything with housing anyway. Its too limited content for big fcs. Its very likely that a lot of the 10p fc split of because they werent able to acces the content in the bigger fc they were before. And in these fcs, if there are 10 people, its most likely going to be 8+ people with a ticket.

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Originally Posted by Yuniko

*hugs* thank you for standing up for people love. You are a good person. <3

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You're welcome, I just don't get people like Crafoutis who are mean for no reason, sounds like he is miserable irl. I understand that I am fortunate to have my homes after trying for years but I will continue to vouch for everyone have their own home whether it's a plot in the wards and they also implement instanced housing when Island Sanctuary is already halfway there. All they have to do is put a plot and everyone would have a home but with a 90 limit for outside which I would love and the ward housing can stay the way it is for those that want a neighborhood feeling.

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Originally Posted by Rinoa_353

You're welcome, I just don't get people like Crafoutis who are mean for no reason, sounds like he is miserable irl. I understand that I am fortunate to have my homes after trying for years but I will continue to vouch for everyone have their own home whether it's a plot in the wards and they also implement instanced housing when Island Sanctuary is already halfway there. All they have to do is put a plot and everyone would have a home but with a 90 limit for outside which I would love and the ward housing can stay the way it is for those that want a neighborhood feeling.

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The truth of the matter is, if you had the housing system that you wanted.I would have unsubscribed a long time ago.Because there is no need to remain actively subscribed if i'm not going to lose it anyway.

My plots have been used almost daily for the last near decade and for that.My subscription had to be active. Your suggestion makes it so that I would never have needed to subscribe. You would have saved me thousands but youre doing Square absolutely no favors by keeping that money in my pocket.

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Originally Posted by Solowing

The truth of the matter is, if you had the housing system that you wanted.I would have unsubscribed a long time ago.Because there is no need to remain actively subscribed if i'm not going to lose it anyway.

My plots have been used almost daily for the last near decade and for that.My subscription had to be active. Your suggestion makes it so that I would never have needed to subscribe. You would have saved me thousands but youre doing Square absolutely no favors by keeping that money in my pocket.

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Sure, it would mean less but other major MMO's and soon WoW have housing for everyone, that just means SE is going to have to invest more into FFXIV and improve the game to keep more people, it's pretty simple.

[QUOTE=Rinoa_353;6758880]Sure, it would mean less /QUOTE]

Games don't run on kindness and unicorn kisses. WoW isn't doing housing purely for you. At the core of you're going to be buying WoW tokens and buying cash shop items. Is the same devil, just dressed up differently.

Don't get me wrong competition is good, but yea I'd rather not have a housing system that has developer sanctioned RMT baked into it.

Saying someone is mean may be one of the most worthless sentiments to ever exist.

I'm only unlucky enough to have been affronted by its worthlessness via someone else's quotes, because there are more blocked users in this thread than female miqote idling around limsa.