Please make Forked Tower more Accessible and easier like Bozja

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Originally Posted by Khryseis_Astra

Hmmm I wonder how many relic stages we’ll have with only one more zone…

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If I had to guess they'll either toss another grind as the first "throwaway" step or it'll be another 1,500 tomes going forward ala EW.

Yeah like, whats the plan now? gettin that zone and some extra at 7.555555555555555? lol

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Originally Posted by Kuroka

Yeah like, whats the plan now? gettin that zone and some extra at 7.555555555555555? lol

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The forgotten relics step in Delubrum had deep dungeons as the alternative, so that would fill 7.3 at least, but I have no idea what they could do for 7.4 that isn't just grinding the same FATEs again. Surely they wouldn't be stupid enough to make the first Forked Tower a requirement, right?

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Oh that's such a crock, Dawntrail has pretty much been a hardcore player paradise ....

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Bravo! Well said! The (united) attitude from Savage raiders that I was greeted by as my casual communities started disintegrating 6 weeks after 7.0, was 'exactly' what Aidorouge described, and it's why I now give 'no benefit of the doubt' to the stance of Savage-Ultimate raiders, and is many have read from me what they have. I was only ever talking about casual content, not even my own content, I certainly wasn't interfering in high end. Once they slammed the door on my casual content, that was when my interest changing EX and savage became the only option.

I'm tempted to take out a displate membership so I can get Aid's post turned into a custom to replace my Tataru 'We can do it!'
High end have only themselves to blame. Picto came out, ultimate YouTubers did nothing but bitch about how it needed nerfing while all the time overusing it in their own parties. Wanting the same kind of job choice in ultimate that leveling roul enjoys? Talk about entitled. Then when they finally make Picto work like summoner, high end will blame poor 'Frieren Fireeyes' the serial casual MSQ alt-er and normal raid KO collector, who was just trying to level it in Wanderers Palace and unlimited Chloe's, very adequately.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

The forgotten relics step in Delubrum had deep dungeons as the alternative, so that would fill 7.3 at least, but I have no idea what they could do for 7.4 that isn't just grinding the same FATEs again. Surely they wouldn't be stupid enough to make the first Forked Tower a requirement, right?

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Oh remember, or rather i dont, cause that were i stopped wasting my time lol

The relic needs to be way higher ilvl then the sorry excuse we got...

And no they aren't annoyed by the entry method cause it keeps their server alive and useful. They thrive on people's misery.

This thing is poorly designed
You can't have the entire instance enter, it's a lottery system
It is designed to be too difficult for casual players to succeed in, a bit above extreme trials in difficulty, suggesting to use premades
You can't make guarantee your full premade can even enter the thing, leading to a couple players who have never done the thing being able to grief it (not all their fault, it's the systems fault)
Why couldnt this have been like bozja where you queue for it outside the instance, and have an easier casual raid inside?

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

This thing is poorly designed
You can't have the entire instance enter, it's a lottery system
It is designed to be too difficult for casual players to succeed in, a bit above extreme trials in difficulty, suggesting to use premades
You can't make guarantee your full premade can even enter the thing, leading to a couple players who have never done the thing being able to grief it (not all their fault, it's the systems fault)
Why couldnt this have been like bozja where you queue for it outside the instance, and have an easier casual raid inside?

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Your know what, I think i might try Forked if I can just queue it.
But not if I 'have' to do the gold grind before I can start. I'll do that that while I'm progging it. Also, I'm afraid I won't be preparing with guides. I'll check guides after. I'm looking for communication in game.
It's s shame. THIS kind of attitude would have worked for Chaotic, but I don't think it's going to work for this because i doubt you can just re-pull.
Then when it fails, they'll say "well we tried" and won't try it again for the right kind of content.

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

This thing is poorly designed
You can't have the entire instance enter, it's a lottery system
It is designed to be too difficult for casual players to succeed in, a bit above extreme trials in difficulty, suggesting to use premades
You can't make guarantee your full premade can even enter the thing, leading to a couple players who have never done the thing being able to grief it (not all their fault, it's the systems fault)
Why couldnt this have been like bozja where you queue for it outside the instance, and have an easier casual raid inside?

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Just wondering, now that we’re seeing people clear it, for anyone who’s done both BA and Forked Tower, which did you feel was objectively harder? And do you feel the Tower has the same potential for herding first-timers through as BA? (Despite the challenge of getting a full group into the same instance!)

I think a lot of the hardcore catering is due to popular streamers tbh. Cause it doesn't make sense from a for profit business perspective since most of the players are casuals or midcore. If it wasn't for the streamers I don't think they would care for hardcore stuff nearly as much.

Some of their decisions just make zero sense regardless of whether you are casual or midcore or hardcore. I think that's the main point of concern here. The Forked Entry requirements are not good for ANYONE. Casuals hate it, midcore people hate it, hardcore people hate it. It literally is an incomprehensible decision and only the streamers who can rally up a static of 48 sweaty nerds seem to make it look good.

Would like it to be able to queu into like DR was.... or just be like the massive master fates that Boza and co. offered as a special special CE in a figure of speech.

Also I think it is bad with the permadeath thing if you exceed some stat.

It is like again the more supposed to be like for all content moves into a certain bracket, which is not really fair to the most of the people that would like to do this content.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

That too, even with the hardcore favoritism they still manage to throw in some backhanded slaps their way. Forked Tower's entry system seems almost specifically designed to screw with statics, and Chaotic "Raid" was just another boss room and not an actual cranked-up Crystal Tower like some folks thought it would be. (It wasn't even just a boss gauntlet without the walking and add bits removed.)

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You think the players have it bad, but just imagine what it feels like to be a monster in a dungeon mob.

You're essentially harmless. You understand that you are regarded as irrelevant. All you can inflict is minor chip damage on a tank with so much mit and self sustain your one cleave might as well be a pea-shooter. You know that your fate will be indistinguishable from every other mob member in a modern dungeon. Having no personal volition, you wait for that inevitable tap of the tank aggroing you, get yeeted with your comrades into a bait ball, and lights out.

Tragic.

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

Your know what, I think i might try Forked if I can just queue it.
But not if I 'have' to do the gold grind before I can start. I'll do that that while I'm progging it. Also, I'm afraid I won't be preparing with guides. I'll check guides after. I'm looking for communication in game.
It's s shame. THIS kind of attitude would have worked for Chaotic, but I don't think it's going to work for this because i doubt you can just re-pull.
Then when it fails, they'll say "well we tried" and won't try it again for the right kind of content.

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Oh my god its so depressing, I just looked at what the actual entry requirements are.
I thought it was going to be a 'boost' your bid with 1 certificate or don't. It never occurred to me id be limitless bidding for the right to play the game I already paid for.
And right now there are add-on cheats boosting their farming productivity in all sorts of ways.
If your even using an add-on to speed your aetherite transports, your a scummy cheat, because your denying me fair crack at farming fates.

So let me get this right...
I'm sitting here right now thinking..

"You know what I fancy giving Forked a try, and because of THAT and that ALONE, I'm going to log on tonight."

but hang on

"my chances of getting in are based on my making a BLIND GAMBLING bid 'against' my fellow players?!"
"As a solo entrant will I be bidding against whole parties?" (It doesn't really matter honestly its still bad either way.)

And what do I use to make that bid? The very same currency I'm supposed to be using to upgrade my gear, to make my rock bottom confidence, never done savage before ass, stand the best chance possible of not being too much of a drag for my colleagues.

What this now equates to is basically spending all my money on gear.
And sitting with a frankly rock bottom expectation of successfully blind bidding my way into the instance.
It's like sitting in a more demoralising, more boring, more restrictive, version of a Chaotic prog PF, only with more chance of my time being totally wasted, while having even less fun.

Yeah well. I'll wait to see if my friend wants to have fun doing CE's, otherwise, I've got better things to do with my time than logon.

I find it so hard to believe that someone in CB3 isn't just being plain hateful now. I mean you couldn't have made it worse. It was frankly the impression that Chaotic gave. You starve casual, then you create exiting new content with something like P2?

I'm not fkg EARNING my right to play the game all over again. I already paid my sub.
Fck you yoshi. Are you takaing any responsibility for this game or have you just given up completely?
I can honestly say if he was in front of me right now, I would not feel the least in awe of him. He's a human being, just like me, and I'm not impressed. I don't do this with my responsibilities to other peoples 'feelings'. I would be having a very frank and confident conversation.
I am not impressed, and I would be expecting a lot of 'excuses'
People invest heart in MMOs and that shouldn't be a shock to anyone least of all Creative 3.
After Chaotic, and EW/DT casual drought, I just don't have the words articulate anything other than my surface feelings on the matter. I just need to state the facts.

At least in Genshin Gatcha I'd probably just be gambling against the environment/systems, and not fellow players.

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

Oh my god its so depressing, I just looked at what the actual entry requirements are.
I thought it was going to be a 'boost' your bid with 1 certificate or don't. It never occurred to me id be limitless bidding for the right to play the game I already paid for.
And right now there are add-on cheats boosting their farming productivity in all sorts of ways.
If your even using an add-on to speed your aetherite transports, your a scummy cheat, because your denying me fair crack at farming fates.

So let me get this right...
I'm sitting here right now thinking..

"You know what I fancy giving Forked a try, and because of THAT and that ALONE, I'm going to log on tonight."

but hang on

"my chances of getting in are based on my making a BLIND GAMBLING bid 'against' my fellow players?!"
"As a solo entrant will I be bidding against whole parties?" (It doesn't really matter honestly its still bad either way.)

And what do I use to make that bid? The very same currency I'm supposed to be using to upgrade my gear, to make my rock bottom confidence, never done savage before ass, stand the best chance possible of not being too much of a drag for my colleagues.

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I just don't get why they stick with rng as the entrance requirement. It's just absurd.

I just love queuing up 5 times and not getting in. 10/10 decision.

We saw this with duels, and everyone complained about it. We saw this with BA and everyone complained about it.

Why is the devs first decision on interesting content is -> lets make it as hard for you as possible to even join, and also make it as cancerous as possible.


Want to actually try the new content. Nope YoshiP denies you access to the content WE ARE ALREADY PAYING FOR
Want to play with your friends. NOPE, YOU GET TO WATCH WHILE YOUR FC HAS FUN IN THE INSTANCE. YOSHI P HAS DECLARED YOU UNWORTHY TO HAVE FUN

And so like clockwork, the playerbase is forced to implement a solution that is just as bad as the problem, just to get things done. And predictibility, it's screwing over more players, because the solution requires some level of toxicity contrary to the game design, because they thought it was funny to put little timmy, who is used to bodja, expecting a casual challenge, into DRS level nonsence.

The casuals are mad because they feel excluded, both by the devs who failed to give them something meanigful again, and by other players who in their eyes are arbitrary gatekeeping them from something the game tells them to do.
The hardcore and large midcore groups are mad, because they either can't play with their friends/perfered raid groups, or they have randos in hard content who dont know what they are doing, and have been given no good way to stop that.

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

Oh my god its so depressing, I just looked at what the actual entry requirements are.
I thought it was going to be a 'boost' your bid with 1 certificate or don't. It never occurred to me id be limitless bidding for the right to play the game I already paid for.
And right now there are add-on cheats boosting their farming productivity in all sorts of ways.
If your even using an add-on to speed your aetherite transports, your a scummy cheat, because your denying me fair crack at farming fates.

So let me get this right...
I'm sitting here right now thinking..

"You know what I fancy giving Forked a try, and because of THAT and that ALONE, I'm going to log on tonight."

but hang on

"my chances of getting in are based on my making a BLIND GAMBLING bid 'against' my fellow players?!"
"As a solo entrant will I be bidding against whole parties?" (It doesn't really matter honestly its still bad either way.)

And what do I use to make that bid? The very same currency I'm supposed to be using to upgrade my gear, to make my rock bottom confidence, never done savage before ass, stand the best chance possible of not being too much of a drag for my colleagues.

What this now equates to is basically spending all my money on gear.
And sitting with a frankly rock bottom expectation of successfully blind bidding my way into the instance.
It's like sitting in a more demoralising, more boring, more restrictive, version of a Chaotic prog PF, only with more chance of my time being totally wasted, while having even less fun.

Yeah well. I'll wait to see if my friend wants to have fun doing CE's, otherwise, I've got better things to do with my time than logon.

I find it so hard to believe that someone in CB3 isn't just being plain hateful now. I mean you couldn't have made it worse. It was frankly the impression that Chaotic gave. You starve casual, then you create exiting new content with something like P2?

I'm not fkg EARNING my right to play the game all over again. I already paid my sub.
Fck you yoshi. Are you takaing any responsibility for this game or have you just given up completely?
I can honestly say if he was in front of me right now, I would not feel the least in awe of him. He's a human being, just like me, and I'm not impressed. I don't do this with my responsibilities to other peoples 'feelings'. I would be having a very frank and confident conversation.
I am not impressed, and I would be expecting a lot of 'excuses'
People invest heart in MMOs and that shouldn't be a shock to anyone least of all Creative 3.
After Chaotic, and EW/DT casual drought, I just don't have the words articulate anything other than my surface feelings on the matter. I just need to state the facts.

At least in Genshin Gatcha I'd probably just be gambling against the environment/systems, and not fellow players.

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contractor home improvement simulator.

It truly is horrific. It has also completely ruined my motivation to log on and I LOVE the raid design. I wish more people where outraged about this cause it's just unacceptable.
Why am I blocked from entering a raid that needs savage levels of prog and forced to play roulette against my fellow players to enter said raid? Not that it will even get you anywhere cause it is now completely gatekept behind discord servers, you playing roulette won't matter. Nobody wants you in their run unless it's schedueled. And you can't even get enough people together to meet the body checks in a random instance.

Like what the actual ????? are they doing???

@ Creative 3
'Forcing' casuals and Highend Static players together IS the best answer. (Provided statics still have some content in which to be a thing, for 'their' part of the instance responsibilities.)

However if you are going to smash statics up then you need to think about who is going to be playing in their place?
Because in the case of Forked bidding wars the answer is definitely 'not' casuals. So no-one.

Chaotic was your chance to do this, when the casual player base was so disappointed, but because making changes and doing things differently is anathema to you, you fckd it.

Chaotic would have been fantastic at suprising casuals about what they can achieve, if you'd banned premades, forced everyone into raidfinder, and just eased the body checks to allow some recovery provided 60% knew how the instance worked.

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Casuals would have loved trying to get better, and they would have had massive patience for it, as long as they can 'just play', and earn genuinely cool stuff for the first time.
That's what casual is. It's not entitlement. Its not effort. Its not skill. It's not practice.
Its not having to do stuff out of game. It's not having to schedule out of game. Recruit out of game. Play the instance out of game in your head via a you tube guide again and again. Casual is, just play, just have fun.

Forked is million miles the other direction. Casuals stand no chance if they can't even practice. But with it's perma death i don't think casuals were ever the target audience at all this time.

Which is why I'm at a loss as to why CB3 clearly did want to smash statics up with Forked entry requirements. The side effect is that they have now polluted the OC zone with hardcore farmers hell bent on getting their business done, with no time to spare the casuals they come across with pleases, thank yous, and let-me-help-you-with-that's.

Oh chaotic was peanuts compared to forked. Atleast in Chaotic a 'casual' could actually show up unnanounced in an alliance PF, and not grief the alliance to shit. Look up a guide, prog the content as much as they want and get better at it.

With Forked, all that is undone. You can NOT get into the instance in the first place, you can not practice, you can not gain confidence. There is zero chance you are going to clear it so there is also 0 incentive to engage with it which further cements the gatekeeping behind schedueled discord runs full of hardcore sweats.

Also I say 'casual' but that goes for anyone from casual to midcore and savage raiders. The raid itself isn't that hardcore. The retarded entry system just turns it into a hardcore fiesta.

With how terrible the dev cycle is, they will change it, but it'll be by the end of the expansion to have it an instance entered from the outside, Yoshida and his team are completely out of touch with the community, 5 month wait for a chance at QOL improvements is unacceptable.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Christ, it's like Chaotic all over again with Square-Enix trying to create a "bridge" between casual and hardcore players, but that just made the chasm even wider.

Now people are just actively shoving each other down the cliff face.

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To be fair, the problem is still the fact that Square Enix's perception of what midcore is, is flawed. On top of that, they also assume that every player wants to improve. Which could not be farther from the truth. The reality is that most of the people in FF14 are just chilling.
They enjoy the game for its story, shiny bossfights and overall casual approach and they are happy as long as there is something to do, something shiny to get, and the hardest difficulty they ever want or need is probably around Critical Engagements level,if they improve naturally, then thats good. Shoveling way harder content into the game than they are used to and baiting them to complete it with TT cards and hairstyles will achieve nothing but pour gasoline on fire.
It is genuinely not hard to satisfy these players but they utterly failed to do so in Dawntrail in every department.

The issue was already highlighted with Chaotic and how much people detested it, it should have raised every alarm bells they have available. Sadly however Forked Tower follows the same logic as Chaotic and people hate it for the same reason. Its battle content that people would do because it is interesting, the rewards are there as incentive, but its just too punishing for the average player, hence barely anybody bothers with it and the content dies weeks if not days after its release when the sweats get bored of it.

Square wont fix this, if they wanted to, they could have course corrected long ago after the reception of Chaotic, and Forked Tower would be a puggable alliance raid with a harder difficulty available for some additional rewards or higher drop rate.
But it isn't, so whatever is the next Forked Tower, it will use the same dogwater logic, too punishing fight, complicated entry, tempting rewards and more tumbleweeds than players inside it after week 2.

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Originally Posted by itachi-otsutsuki

Oh chaotic was peanuts compared to forked. Atleast in Chaotic a 'casual' could actually show up unnanounced in an alliance PF, and not grief the alliance to shit. Look up a guide, prog the content as much as they want and get better at it.

With Forked, all that is undone. You can NOT get into the instance in the first place, you can not practice, you can not gain confidence. There is zero chance you are going to clear it so there is also 0 incentive to engage with it which further cements the gatekeeping behind schedueled discord runs full of hardcore sweats.

Also I say 'casual' but that goes for anyone from casual to midcore and savage raiders. The raid itself isn't that hardcore. The retarded entry system just turns it into a hardcore fiesta.

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Ironically the community's solution to organizing Chaotic actually makes it really good midcore content, and a good steeping stone. The RADAR discord has been able to split groups up into different levels, everyone relatively knows it's hard content, and there are plenty of veterans actually helping players actually learn. It's gotten to the point that I have recomended players new to raiding to stick with the any prog groups ( after some early ex kills) until they get a hang of things, and they have all enjoyed it. It's just that the community mostly saw the week 1 hardcore raiders go at it and get a bit dicey in pf ( when they should have really made their own premades to avoid "casuals"), but after the community solved the organization, even hardcore raiders can easily organize hardcore only reclear groups. The second chaotic raid won't be as bad on release just because there is an established system.

Hey look, being able to queue with who you want and when you want actually fixes the problem over time. Who knew.

However, Square just had to make sure that absolutely no organization could be done to ensure you can reasonably join in with like minded people. Or heck, even join in with your friends sometimes.

Why?

How is it that they just decided to do a entry system, that is more infurating than the actual instance?
FYI Yoshi P-> if there is a chance your friend cant join you despite the fact you both queued up, you failed.

I'm sitting in one of the discords and it looks like things are shaping up nicely organizing there, but there's caveats.

What I'm especially worried about is the statics, I see at least one static forming (explicitly stating it is a full static and will not be sourcing pugs unless absolutely necessary) that wants to claim FT for a datacenter's prime time for three days a week.

What of the rest of the datacenter? We're supposed to just accept that one set of group leads owns the instance for those nights for the ENTIRE DATACENTER? "Go make your own group" is a lot less viable of a solution here (at best, even with multiple instances likely being here to stay due to the smaller limit, now you've got multiple 48's hammering the instance servers trying to each get their whole group in when just one has a tough enough time).

PUGs, even organized ones, are supposed to just have to run during work hours or complete degen late nights and that's it because statics will claim all the prime time? (Mind you, I DO play degen late nights but still!).

And then there's the question of whether we can skip the +2 gear or if, given that Blood came out this early in the cycle (unlike BA which was at the very end), Arcanaut +2 is going to be a mandatory progression stage for North Horn gearing which means everyone has to manage to get in or be palpably undergeared in 7.55 ...

I clear all current savage content with my static. I cleared Chaotic using PF and pugs over 50 times. There is no way I'm going to do this Tower content.

If using an external system, Discord in this case, is REQUIRED to get a a group together for in-game content then said content is a failure. Tower is the biggest failure in this game to date.

Even more as they had fixed that in Bozja lol

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Originally Posted by Amarande

I'm sitting in one of the discords and it looks like things are shaping up nicely organizing there, but there's caveats.

What I'm especially worried about is the statics, I see at least one static forming (explicitly stating it is a full static and will not be sourcing pugs unless absolutely necessary) that wants to claim FT for a datacenter's prime time for three days a week.

What of the rest of the datacenter? We're supposed to just accept that one set of group leads owns the instance for those nights for the ENTIRE DATACENTER? "Go make your own group" is a lot less viable of a solution here (at best, even with multiple instances likely being here to stay due to the smaller limit, now you've got multiple 48's hammering the instance servers trying to each get their whole group in when just one has a tough enough time).

PUGs, even organized ones, are supposed to just have to run during work hours or complete degen late nights and that's it because statics will claim all the prime time? (Mind you, I DO play degen late nights but still!).

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Bring your own ciphers and join them, they can't stop you. Get your friends to do the same. It's the design intent of the content.

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Originally Posted by FuturePastNow

Bring your own ciphers and join them, they can't stop you. Get your friends to do the same. It's the design intent of the content.

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If you do that and sneak you in the tower, the answer of the static most probably will be "we won't revive you" if you happen to die.

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Originally Posted by ACE135

If you do that and sneak you in the tower, the answer of the static most probably will be "we won't revive you" if you happen to die.

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The approach advocated by a well-known streamer who presumably lobbied for this content and even he has criticisms.

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Originally Posted by ACE135

If you do that and sneak you in the tower, the answer of the static most probably will be "we won't revive you" if you happen to die.

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Honest question here, and I don't mean to be an ass to statics trying their best at FT, since we are all victims of CS3's awful design here:
would that not theoretically fall under the "aiding the enemy" bit of the Prohibited Activities in Final Fantasy XIV? I'm fairly certain refusing to heal/resurrect people in the instance can be considered that, which would theoretically make not resurrecting people in FT a offense reportable to a GM.

I mean I don't want those kinds of reportings to happen, mind you. Players who want to join in an instance with their closed group exclusively should be able to do so. It's just a thought that just shot into my head.
Makes you wonder what exactly went through the head of the person who designed the FT entry requirements.

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Originally Posted by ACE135

If you do that and sneak you in the tower, the answer of the static most probably will be "we won't revive you" if you happen to die.

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You want to gamble if a random person won't wipe whole raid just out of spite/not knowing mechanics?

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Originally Posted by ovIm

Honest question here, and I don't mean to be an ass to statics trying their best at FT, since we are all victims of CS3's awful design here:
would that not theoretically fall under the "aiding the enemy" bit of the Prohibited Activities in Final Fantasy XIV? I'm fairly certain refusing to heal/resurrect people in the instance can be considered that, which would theoretically make not resurrecting people in FT a offense reportable to a GM.

I mean I don't want those kinds of reportings to happen, mind you. Players who want to join in an instance with their closed group exclusively should be able to do so. It's just a thought that just shot into my head.
Makes you wonder what exactly went through the head of the person who designed the FT entry requirements.

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This was common in BA if you were not part of an organized discord group. They said that even in the zone chat.

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Originally Posted by Stasya

You want to gamble if a random person won't wipe whole raid just out of spite/not knowing mechanics?

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I just stated what I think the reaction would be regardless if the person not in the static knows the content or not.

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Originally Posted by AyumiCosplayGlam

To be fair, the problem is still the fact that Square Enix's perception of what midcore is, is flawed. On top of that, they also assume that every player wants to improve. Which could not be farther from the truth. The reality is that most of the people in FF14 are just chilling.
They enjoy the game for its story, shiny bossfights and overall casual approach and they are happy as long as there is something to do, something shiny to get, and the hardest difficulty they ever want or need is probably around Critical Engagements level,if they improve naturally, then thats good. Shoveling way harder content into the game than they are used to and baiting them to complete it with TT cards and hairstyles will achieve nothing but pour gasoline on fire.
It is genuinely not hard to satisfy these players but they utterly failed to do so in Dawntrail in every department.

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I'm one of those casual players most of the time (not mid-core). The trick, as you've probably heard, is not playing the game constantly. I don't like gaming habitually, so I often take breaks. When I return, I enjoy story progression, worldbuilding and some shiny instances. Every once in a while though, I do reach endgame, and then I deliberately seek out hardcore content to push my limits. Then I take another break and the cycle resets.

SE probably has the data on this, and I wouldn't be surprised if many other players follow similar patterns. I'm not currently at endgame, but it saddens me to read the feedback here because I don't want hardcore catering for endgame to disappear. After all, it IS endgame - I expect challenging content when I reach that point. The easier, casual-friendly experience should be during the leveling journey. I think that's also the traditional MMO pattern.

The thing is, I don't think players like me will often be on these forums cause they tend to be more time conscious. And being on these forums is a huge time sink. Just a bad habit of mine to come here still.

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Originally Posted by ovIm

Honest question here, and I don't mean to be an ass to statics trying their best at FT, since we are all victims of CS3's awful design here:
would that not theoretically fall under the "aiding the enemy" bit of the Prohibited Activities in Final Fantasy XIV? I'm fairly certain refusing to heal/resurrect people in the instance can be considered that, which would theoretically make not resurrecting people in FT a offense reportable to a GM.

I mean I don't want those kinds of reportings to happen, mind you. Players who want to join in an instance with their closed group exclusively should be able to do so. It's just a thought that just shot into my head.
Makes you wonder what exactly went through the head of the person who designed the FT entry requirements.

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I legitimately wonder what would happen if a group of people saved up cyphers and joined FT when they see people in an instance. They are playing the content correctly, and they actually try to pass it (and aren't trolling).

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Originally Posted by SamRF

I'm one of those casual players most of the time (not mid-core). The trick, as you've probably heard, is not playing the game constantly. I don't like gaming habitually, so I often take breaks. When I return, I enjoy story progression, worldbuilding and some shiny instances. Every once in a while though, I do reach endgame, and then I deliberately seek out hardcore content to push my limits. Then I take another break and the cycle resets.

SE probably has the data on this, and I wouldn't be surprised if many other players follow similar patterns. I'm not currently at endgame, but it saddens me to read the feedback here because I don't want hardcore catering for endgame to disappear. After all, it IS endgame - I expect challenging content when I reach that point. The easier, casual-friendly experience should be during the leveling journey. I think that's also the traditional MMO pattern.

The thing is, I don't think players like me will often be on these forums cause they tend to be more time conscious. And being on these forums is a huge time sink. Just a bad habit of mine to come here still.

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No one here I think is saying they want this content to be piss easy. People want harder content that doesn't make them feel like they have to have a second job just to do it. It feels more like the "midcore" player has nothing to sink their teeth into. It's fine to have the harder content, but when that feels like the only thing we get and the only group that gets catered to, it can be frustrating.
(I don't even know who Forked Tower is catered to though becides streamers, though, as even other harder content players are frustrated by it)

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Originally Posted by ACE135

If you do that and sneak you in the tower, the answer of the static most probably will be "we won't revive you" if you happen to die.

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That's what they'll do, yes, but my point is they cannot stop people from attempting to do the content the way it was designed. Someone who does this is not "sneaking" anywhere.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

SE probably has the data on this, and I wouldn't be surprised if many other players follow similar patterns. I'm not currently at endgame, but it saddens me to read the feedback here because I don't want hardcore catering for endgame to disappear. After all, it IS endgame - I expect challenging content when I reach that point. The easier, casual-friendly experience should be during the leveling journey. I think that's also the traditional MMO pattern.

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I rarely make strong predictions about what SE will or will not do, but I will say with 99.9% confidence that you have absolutely nothing to worry about on this score.

The only way hardcore endgame content will disappear is when they turn off the servers.

Their idea of making 24-mans challenging in Dawntrail is a radioactive disaster. Like there's no grey area between ordinary 24-mans that are often wipe-proof, and stuff like Chaotic and FT where you cannot do it without scheduling in a dang Discord server. FT makes this even worse by applying ridiculous access systems to it, and effectively forces people to attempt to form 48-man premades due to issues with having randoms in the group because the content is so damn mechanically sensitive. Wow! And speaking of wow, I guess SE doesn't plan to observe the lessons vanilla WoW learned in 2004 about the raids that are way too big.

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Originally Posted by AyumiCosplayGlam

To be fair, the problem is still the fact that Square Enix's perception of what midcore is, is flawed.

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I don't think it's flawed. I think that perception doesn't exist in the first place.

Totally agreed.

Tried entering today, but it was 0/0. So I was looking at how to get into Forked Tower... Turns out I have to wait for 5 days for discord sign up to be available, and I'll need to be there at a specific time and follow all their directions.

I thought they changed the BA format in Bozja because this doesn't work for most people.

Seems they decided they don't want it to work for most people