Deus Darnus, Thaliak, Louisoux and Dalamud [Speculation Thread with Spoilers]

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Originally Posted by Alerith

Actually, my OP theory can swing in favor of a thirteenth deity as well. I merely went the route with Louisoix based on the runestone locations and the staff insignia.

There isn't anything solid connecting these points of my own theory as well other than speculation, and a Thirteenth deity is equally as plausible.

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Thank you very much Alerith, I was just about to respond to this.

Punainen, you must understand in the first place that this is the whole FUN of speculation... drawing hints and clues into suggesting various scenarios that lead to a conclusion. Ever since SE released information about the gods/goddesses of Eorzea I've always been following the lore... and yes, Im even one of those that went to visit all the god stones that came with patch 1.23.

The whole idea of the Twelve possibly being Thirteen was one that I even alluded to not only on FFXIVCore but also on my personal blog back in June 2010... I won't delve into my speculations there cuz that's a whole different discussion. But for any great story speculation, one should always think critically outside the box... remember this is a Final Fantasy title were talking about.

First off, the Twelve cannot be masters of all without some kind of element that opposes them. It is part of what gives them a reason for existence and it gives us all a chance to see them exhibiting their power; be it to protect or destroy us. Heck, there might even be an entire pantheon of evil gods that we don't know about.

Point is, first time I suspected this was when I began wondering about who created Thailiak, Nald'thal and his brother Oschon... Nyemia and Althyk I could understand being manifested themselves (since those two control time, space, fate etc). But who created those ones and why? Was there a celestial catastrophe (as is sometimes the case) that necessitated them being created?

I know my mythology prettyy darn good... and one re-occurring factor to make any mythological lore have a solid foundation is to have the presence of an opposing deity. Gives reason to their divine existence, maintains "balance", sustains the lore. Call it the "Ying-Yang" factor if you will.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

Actually, my OP theory can swing in favor of a thirteenth deity as well. I merely went the route with Louisoix based on the runestone locations and the staff insignia.

There isn't anything solid connecting these points of my own theory as well other than speculation, and a Thirteenth deity is equally as plausible.

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No its not equally as plausible, because your theory at least hinges on SOME form of evidence we can see in game and sneak peeks and other information. This 'thirteenth diety' hinges on NOTHING but some guy guessing there will be a thirteenth.

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Originally Posted by Ramesses

Thank you very much Alerith, I was just about to respond to this.

Punainen, you must understand in the first place that this is the whole FUN of speculation... drawing hints and clues into suggesting various scenarios that lead to a conclusion. Ever since SE released information about the gods/goddesses of Eorzea I've always been following the lore... and yes, Im even one of those that went to visit all the god stones that came with patch 1.23.

The whole idea of the Twelve possibly being Thirteen was one that I even alluded to not only on FFXIVCore but also on my personal blog back in June 2010... I won't delve into my speculations there cuz that's a whole different discussion. But for any great story speculation, one should always think critically outside the box... remember this is a Final Fantasy title were talking about.

First off, the Twelve cannot be masters of all without some kind of element that opposes them. It is part of what gives them a reason for existence and it gives us all a chance to see them exhibiting their power; be it to protect or destroy us. Heck, there might even be an entire pantheon of evil gods that we don't know about.

Point is, first time I suspected this was when I began wondering about who created Thailiak, Nald'thal and his brother Oschon... Nyemia and Althyk I could understand being manifested themselves (since those two control time, space, fate etc). But who created those ones and why? Was there a celestial catastrophe (as is sometimes the case) that necessitated them being created?

I know my mythology prettyy darn good... and one re-occurring factor to make any mythological lore have a solid foundation is to have the presence of an opposing deity. Gives reason to their divine existence, maintains "balance", sustains the lore. Call it the "Ying-Yang" factor if you will.

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See, you still give absolutely NO rhyme or reason toward your speculation. And that's not the fun of it...you need SOMETHING that would actually lead you to believe it for it to be a plausible theory.

Otherwise, if we want to use your method of explanation, I could say that its just as plausible that "I think there's gonna turn out to be TWO of every NPC, like they all have even twins! Why would they implement this? Whats my basis for this theory?? I have no idea! Blind speculation is the fun of it!"

You think there may be a thirteenth deity because.....? If you can't answer this question, then it isn't a plausible theory.

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Originally Posted by Punainen

See, you still give absolutely NO rhyme or reason toward your speculation. And that's not the fun of it...you need SOMETHING that would actually lead you to believe it for it to be a plausible theory.

Otherwise, if we want to use your method of explanation, I could say that its just as plausible that "I think there's gonna turn out to be TWO of every NPC, like they all have even twins! Why would they implement this? Whats my basis for this theory?? I have no idea! Blind speculation is the fun of it!"

You think there may be a thirteenth deity because.....? If you can't answer this question, then it isn't a plausible theory.

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It seems you have decided on what you are believing and completely closed your mind to anything else. The reason you don't see reasoning in his argument is because you refuse to look. To be honest, I think their arguments are much stronger than yours.
Just look at your main point (the one that you lean all of your ideas on as if it were fact), it refers to the Ashen Staff not being Ashen. But there are multiple meanings to the word. The primary interpretation might be that it is a Black Staff. One may even say it is simply ashy. But ash connotes black (death), gray (fire), and white (fallout). You assume that the "Ashen Staff" is a staff made of an ashen tree.

Now you're just trolling, Punainen... an objective of the forums is to have polite conversations that exhibit critical thought. I will be succinct in establishing that you've plain refused to allow yourself to examine this with some cognitive thinking... the adage holds true that common sense is not common.

Thus, I will not even dignify your post with a response.

@ Mr Kupo, I thank you most kindly for being able to see exactly what I was referring to... and for pointing out a couple of the flaws in that person's arguments. Alerith's theory both here and on his blog also make a very interesting point, making us us wonder which of our NPC heroes are possible avatars of the gods... or perhaps all of us, (including Cid, Merlwyb and Raubahn) are even being deceived on a couple things as well...

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Originally Posted by Ramesses

Alerith's theory both here and on his blog

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I apologize for derailing this topic slightly, but what blog do you refer to? ._.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

I apologize for derailing this topic slightly, but what blog do you refer to? ._.

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Ahhh, my mistake Alerith... I was referring to Cloudio Onizuka's blog

I think Dalamud is an egg that holds within it Bahamut. Douche Nasus had to charge up Megaflare for an awfully long time, probably to pray to Bahamut to use it. I think that 10 years ago when the Empire last tried to summon Dalamud, Sharlayan knew about it and therefore summoned Shinryu AKA the dragon that currently lies dead in Mor Dhona to oppose Bahamut, and it stopped them from summoning Dalamud/Bahamut's Egg, though unfortunately the Empire had enough manpower to kill it. They also had to spend a long time (10 years) to gather up all the aether they needed to summon Bahamut again.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

I think Dalamud is an egg that holds within it Bahamut. Douche Nasus had to charge up Megaflare for an awfully long time, probably to pray to Bahamut to use it. I think that 10 years ago when the Empire last tried to summon Dalamud, Sharlayan knew about it and therefore summoned Shinryu AKA the dragon that currently lies dead in Mor Dhona to oppose Bahamut, and it stopped them from summoning Dalamud/Bahamut's Egg, though unfortunately the Empire had enough manpower to kill it. They also had to spend a long time (10 years) to gather up all the aether they needed to summon Bahamut again.

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Midgardsormr, not Shinryu.

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Originally Posted by MrKupo

It seems you have decided on what you are believing and completely closed your mind to anything else. The reason you don't see reasoning in his argument is because you refuse to look. To be honest, I think their arguments are much stronger than yours.
Just look at your main point (the one that you lean all of your ideas on as if it were fact), it refers to the Ashen Staff not being Ashen. But there are multiple meanings to the word. The primary interpretation might be that it is a Black Staff. One may even say it is simply ashy. But ash connotes black (death), gray (fire), and white (fallout). You assume that the "Ashen Staff" is a staff made of an ashen tree.

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Don't jump into the middle of a conversation without paying attention to what I was talking about. I think OP's theory is interesting and based on evidence. Ramesses' theory about a thirteenth deity is completely groundless as he's given nothing to back up his wild theories, just a theory out of the blue that he can't say WHY he thinks it.

Now kindly go away if you're only going to pay attention to HALF the conversation.

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Originally Posted by Ramesses

Now you're just trolling, Punainen... an objective of the forums is to have polite conversations that exhibit critical thought. I will be succinct in establishing that you've plain refused to allow yourself to examine this with some cognitive thinking... the adage holds true that common sense is not common.

Thus, I will not even dignify your post with a response.

@ Mr Kupo, I thank you most kindly for being able to see exactly what I was referring to... and for pointing out a couple of the flaws in that person's arguments. Alerith's theory both here and on his blog also make a very interesting point, making us us wonder which of our NPC heroes are possible avatars of the gods... or perhaps all of us, (including Cid, Merlwyb and Raubahn) are even being deceived on a couple things as well...

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You only wish I was trolling so you wouldn't have anyone pointing out your huge lapse in judgement. Like I said, just answer this ONE question, and I will drop it and admit defeat...

You believe there is a thirteenth deity because...?

My theory is all of Final Fantasy XIV takes place in the imagination of someone laying in a bed in a hospital in a coma. FFXIVception and Echoception are terms I coin for these events.

Joking aside at one point in the newest trailer something huge falls from the bottom of Dalamud and slams into the ground killing garlean soldiers and there's a quick clip of Dalamud's surface starting to rupture. I'm placing bets the object that fell is the true threat.

Based on these speculations, any way the Echo can be contributed to the theories? I really can't come up with anything, but it was never brought up.

Also, anyone nostalgic on how Darnus' fight is reminiscent to XI's Promathia fight? Promathia wanting to destroy the world because, yeah, we suck and how Altana wanted to save us, etc.

Even the fight was just as similar, just not in space.








I wish it was in space...

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Originally Posted by Punainen

You only wish I was trolling so you wouldn\\'t have anyone pointing out your huge lapse in judgement. Like I said, just answer this ONE question, and I will drop it and admit defeat...

You believe there is a thirteenth deity because...?

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Its possible to speculate without fact to back it up that's why its called speculation.

To add to my post which for some reason won't let me edit it:

For all we know a giant dodo will pop out of Dalamud and let one rip and that's how the world ends. Point is we don't know yet that's why people are speculating and guessing you don't need cold hard facts to back up everything you say its nothing more than a guess there's no reason to get all anal and serious about it

seeing that Odin is shown in the CGI opening i think his role will be much bigger than the other primals
at least since the current team have clearer view of the game future storyline
his role will probably extend at least until the 1st expansion

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Originally Posted by ArkNova

Joking aside at one point in the newest trailer something huge falls from the bottom of Dalamud and slams into the ground killing garlean soldiers and there's a quick clip of Dalamud's surface starting to rupture. I'm placing bets the object that fell is the true threat.

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Unlikely. It looks like one of the "crosses" that are planted on Dalamud, probably just one of the seals.

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Originally Posted by _pops

Based on these speculations, any way the Echo can be contributed to the theories? I really can't come up with anything, but it was never brought up.

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Well in the Gridanian storyline it is claimed that the Echo is a gift of Nophica, but maybe it's just because it's their goddess (aka "a gift from God").

Main storyline itself has some hints that the Archons have the same powers as us and they are suggesting we search for the one who gave us the powers... then you see an owl flying away in the last cutscene. I'm not good on the symbols of the Twelve, but doesn't that suggest that we are indeed chosen by one of the Twelve? And if it's someone hiding behind the symbols representing the Twelve, there might be a 13th someone...

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Originally Posted by MrKupo

Something that confuses me is the general satisfaction with the results of the final battle in "To Kill A Raven" among Urianger and Louis. They both show up at the same time and nod at the same time (which makes me think that they are both in the same "Circle" of friends if you catch my drift). They acknowledge that the player has done good but we know very well that Urianger is very convinced that regardless of what we do, destruction is coming. Louis' plots so far have had little to do with the imperial invasion and more to do with returning the balance of the Aether.

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This is one of the weirdest things that I've noticed as well. It doesn't really look like they nod in agreement... It's more like Urianger whispers something to Louisoix, then Louis nods. But during that moment Everyone is so happy and jumping and doing all the emotes in the game, while both of them don't even clap for you and just stand back "observing". And what happens in the end? oh the same thing that happened to Garuda... Nael Dues Darnus get absorbed by Dalamud. I think that even the other members of the circle of knowing do not know what those two are up to, and are being played like the rest of us. Unless of course, it is an act?:confused: (But I have no reason to believe that, I honestly think Yda, Papalymo, Thancred, and Y'shtola are genuinely good people.)

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Originally Posted by Punainen

Don't jump into the middle of a conversation without paying attention to what I was talking about. I think OP's theory is interesting and based on evidence. Ramesses' theory about a thirteenth deity is completely groundless as he's given nothing to back up his wild theories, just a theory out of the blue that he can't say WHY he thinks it.

Now kindly go away if you're only going to pay attention to HALF the conversation.

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I read your posts. I respectfully disagree and frankly find it very unconvincing. Even before anyone countered your argument (I believe I was the first to actually say anything) you were convinced that no one was listening to you. The thread isn't about arguing against other people's speculation. It's about everyone contributing their own theories, evidence, and reasoning. I like these threads because I can chime in and try to make sense of ideas, bring forth more evidence, etc. I read your first post, saw the flaw, and chose not to say anything. When I started seeing that you were criticizing other people's speculation, I decided your ideas should be questioned just as much as you are questioning others.

Now don't get me wrong, I do like some of your speculation. You do refuse to see that there are things other than evidence that can merit speculation. Ramesses said somewhere that ancient Mythology generally has some sort of opposing force (yin yang, angel devil, odin loki, zeus hades). To this reasoning, we can find it not entirely farfetched that a similar deity could exist in this lore too. Hence the speculation of the 13th. It's not "evidence", it's reasoning. It's also philosophy 101.

Also, I'll get into whatever conversation I damn well please. Don't tell me what to do in a public forum. If you don't like it, message people privately. This place is public for a reason.

Interesting...

thanks OP

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Originally Posted by Punainen

Also note...Where is Rhalgr's symbol? Nearby Uldah...and we've all seen whats about to happen to Uldah...

Evidence to support Louisoix is Rhalgr: Rhalgr's staff is bronze, Louis' staff is bronze, and not ashen like Thaliak's staff. Also the Thaliak symbol looks out of place, a rock on an otherwise bronze and leather staff. And the symbol is upsidedown!
Rhalgr is also depicted as a mage, while Thaliak is a scholar.... But Louis' is a mage.
Rhalgr's symbol is the meteor, and Louis' has been having us do stuff which is feeding energy to the meteor.

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OBJECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Love Phoenix Wright xD)

http://static2.finalfantasyxiv.com/a...TZY6AJBfHA.png
I don't know about you but that looks like wood to me... Yes there is a tiny part that's bronze but it's mainly made out of wood.

And about Thaliak's symbol being out of place... Well you guys were looking at it from the wrong angle...
http://static2.finalfantasyxiv.com/a...TZXjF4LF0Q.png
see, looks just fine :)

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

Unlikely. It looks like one of the "crosses" that are planted on Dalamud, probably just one of the seals.

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Probably true it's just that this cross was glowing and I don't remember seeing any others glowing but I think that was the only cross that fell in the video so it stuck out to me lol

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Originally Posted by _pops

Also, anyone nostalgic on how Darnus' fight is reminiscent to XI's Promathia fight?

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You mean the part where they both hit phase 2 and decide to spam Meteor like assholes? XD

Just because I feel like it would be necessary to note, those speaking about Bahamut. Is it not also interesting that his name resembles "Dalamud"? The vowels, the letter m... I mean, if we're throwing conspiracies, it would make sense that Dalamud is in some way related to none other than Bahamut. Deus Darnus: "Grant me your power!" Dalamud (Bahamut): "Here! Take Megaflare and Gigaflare!"

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Originally Posted by MrKupo

I read your posts. I respectfully disagree and frankly find it very unconvincing. Even before anyone countered your argument (I believe I was the first to actually say anything) you were convinced that no one was listening to you. The thread isn't about arguing against other people's speculation. It's about everyone contributing their own theories, evidence, and reasoning. I like these threads because I can chime in and try to make sense of ideas, bring forth more evidence, etc. I read your first post, saw the flaw, and chose not to say anything. When I started seeing that you were criticizing other people's speculation, I decided your ideas should be questioned just as much as you are questioning others.

Now don't get me wrong, I do like some of your speculation. You do refuse to see that there are things other than evidence that can merit speculation. Ramesses said somewhere that ancient Mythology generally has some sort of opposing force (yin yang, angel devil, odin loki, zeus hades). To this reasoning, we can find it not entirely farfetched that a similar deity could exist in this lore too. Hence the speculation of the 13th. It's not "evidence", it's reasoning. It's also philosophy 101.

Also, I'll get into whatever conversation I damn well please. Don't tell me what to do in a public forum. If you don't like it, message people privately. This place is public for a reason.

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TL;DR: Don't give a flying F* what you think of my theory. You not believing my theory doesn't make the other guys theory hold water. But you made a wonderful point earlier by comparing his theory to that of a dodo popping out of Dalamud, as it makes just as little sense.

Its a fact, that if you have NO rhyme or reason behind your speculation, that it is completely BLIND speculation. That's all I said about it, and you've yet to disprove it, and neither has he.

SARCASM MODE ACTIVATE!

You guys better learn to have facts and evidence before you go tossing out of this world theories!

SARCASM MODE DEACTIVATE!

I kind of hope Bahamut isn't inside Dalamud for a few reasons.

1. This would make him a super bad ass, so bad ass that we wouldn't get to summon him if/when summoner comes out and since we couldn't summon him in XI I'm hoping we can here.

2. Maybe the attack "MegaFlare" that Darnus uses is a mistranslation?

3. Don't Primals live in another dimension of sort? A quote taken from ZAM: They require a vast amount of energy in order to trancend into our world. If that holds true how could Bahamut be inside Dalamud? If Bahamut was inside Dalamud wouldn't he need a constant supply of crystals to keep his physical body trapped inside or else his body would just poof back into where ever Primals live? Between the 10 years of the primal sightings how would Bahamut of had a supply of crystals?

TL;DR If Bahamut is inside Dalamud what Planeswalker is supplying his upkeep cost and how over the amount of time that satellite has been up there til now?

the dragon thingy was midgarsomar? I thought they would have at least represented him correctly as a giant snake not as a dragon. They correctly (somewhat) represent odin and most of the time the represent Slepneir (this time they only give his horse 4 legs instead of the 8 he's supposed to have most of the other times they just miss two and i think that's because of drawing restrictions and such) correctly as well as Fenrir... so I doubt they would change The World Serpent to be a World Dragon... (then again when I think of Ragnarok and all of that I think of Loki storming the place and Heimdall calling out and fighting and all that.... sorry I've read the Prose Edda and all of that I'm very interested in Norse mythology)

It's an interesting theory though I will say I don't like Thancred and people praise him but there's always been something fishy about him to me...

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Originally Posted by Rannie

the dragon thingy was midgarsomar? I thought they would have at least represented him correctly as a giant snake not as a dragon. They correctly (somewhat) represent odin and most of the time the represent Slepneir (this time they only give his horse 4 legs instead of the 8 he's supposed to have most of the other times they just miss two and i think that's because of drawing restrictions and such) correctly as well as Fenrir... so I doubt they would change The World Serpent to be a World Dragon... (then again when I think of Ragnarok and all of that I think of Loki storming the place and Heimdall calling out and fighting and all that.... sorry I've read the Prose Edda and all of that I'm very interested in Norse mythology)

It's an interesting theory though I will say I don't like Thancred and people praise him but there's always been something fishy about him to me...

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Bahamut is also technically a giant fish.

But that's less than entertaining here.

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Originally Posted by Rannie

the dragon thingy was midgarsomar? I thought they would have at least represented him correctly as a giant snake not as a dragon. They correctly (somewhat) represent odin and most of the time the represent Slepneir (this time they only give his horse 4 legs instead of the 8 he's supposed to have most of the other times they just miss two and i think that's because of drawing restrictions and such) correctly as well as Fenrir... so I doubt they would change The World Serpent to be a World Dragon... (then again when I think of Ragnarok and all of that I think of Loki storming the place and Heimdall calling out and fighting and all that.... sorry I've read the Prose Edda and all of that I'm very interested in Norse mythology)

It's an interesting theory though I will say I don't like Thancred and people praise him but there's always been something fishy about him to me...

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Well, to be sincere, Midgarsormr in this game is actually a serpentine dragon, so at least PARTWAY there.

And what Alerith said about Bahamut. Gods don't even get me started on how the general portrayal of Tiamat is all shades of wrong as well.

now that I didn't know Bahamut being a giant fish I know Leviathan is but not bahamut... what mythos is it from? you've actually peaked my curiosity on that.

and my whole thing is normally with norse myth they tend to keep it straight or closer to what it is or based off of at least. I didn't say it was bad just find it odd that they're calling that the world serpent which is what midgarsormr (midgar meaning the world and sormr being a serpent) a dragon instead of a snake. i know in eastern myth the dragons take on a more serpentine look, but i believe even Seiryu had some type of wings.... ah well.

I think the only one in the myths they had represented 100% correctly was nidhogg... sorry... derailing the thread.

Shall we go into Shiva then? ROFL Shiva isn't even a woman! Shiva is a man in Hindu myth.

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Originally Posted by ArkNova

SARCASM MODE ACTIVATE!

You guys better learn to have facts and evidence before you go tossing out of this world theories!

SARCASM MODE DEACTIVATE!

I kind of hope Bahamut isn't inside Dalamud for a few reasons.

1. This would make him a super bad ass, so bad ass that we wouldn't get to summon him if/when summoner comes out and since we couldn't summon him in XI I'm hoping we can here.

2. Maybe the attack "MegaFlare" that Darnus uses is a mistranslation?

3. Don't Primals live in another dimension of sort? A quote taken from ZAM: They require a vast amount of energy in order to trancend into our world. If that holds true how could Bahamut be inside Dalamud? If Bahamut was inside Dalamud wouldn't he need a constant supply of crystals to keep his physical body trapped inside or else his body would just poof back into where ever Primals live? Between the 10 years of the primal sightings how would Bahamut of had a supply of crystals?

TL;DR If Bahamut is inside Dalamud what Planeswalker is supplying his upkeep cost and how over the amount of time that satellite has been up there til now?

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I wonder the details about this actually. Like if the Primals run out of energy, they get sent back to their own dimension? Or maybe they are put into suspended animation, and energy is need to put them back into action?
Idk, this helps lead me to believe that Louis (who has us believing that we need to kill the primals) is trying to get us to steal energy from the other primals to give to whatever is in Dalamud.

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Originally Posted by Rannie

now that I didn't know Bahamut being a giant fish I know Leviathan is but not bahamut... what mythos is it from? you've actually peaked my curiosity on that.

and my whole thing is normally with norse myth they tend to keep it straight or closer to what it is or based off of at least. I didn't say it was bad just find it odd that they're calling that the world serpent which is what midgarsormr (midgar meaning the world and sormr being a serpent) a dragon instead of a snake. i know in eastern myth the dragons take on a more serpentine look, but i believe even Seiryu had some type of wings.... ah well.

I think the only one in the myths they had represented 100% correctly was nidhogg... sorry... derailing the thread.

Shall we go into Shiva then? ROFL Shiva isn't even a woman! Shiva is a man in Hindu myth.

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Not to mention Behemoth isn't a wolf/lion/whatever that is. Behemoth is some kind of grass-eating animal that also frequents rivers.

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Originally Posted by ArkNova

I kind of hope Bahamut isn't inside Dalamud for a few reasons.
1. This would make him a super bad ass, so bad ass that we wouldn't get to summon him if/when summoner comes out and since we couldn't summon him in XI I'm hoping we can here.

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We won't be able to summon Primals on the summoner class regardless. Primals are for Free Companies to summon. Summoners would probably get elementals and lesser summons like Carbuncle rather than Ifrit/Garuda/Bahamut/Leviathan.

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2. Maybe the attack "MegaFlare" that Darnus uses is a mistranslation?

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Doubtful that they would mistranslate the famous attack and not notice.

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3. Don't Primals live in another dimension of sort? A quote taken from ZAM: They require a vast amount of energy in order to trancend into our world. If that holds true how could Bahamut be inside Dalamud? If Bahamut was inside Dalamud wouldn't he need a constant supply of crystals to keep his physical body trapped inside or else his body would just poof back into where ever Primals live? Between the 10 years of the primal sightings how would Bahamut of had a supply of crystals?

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Perhaps Dalamud is the world they live in, then. Or maybe the lore will get changed. It's not like we can know where the Primals come from if we've never been there ourselves. And Garlemald has a lot of territory, who knows how many crystals they have in addition to the ones they took from the beast tribes? Maybe Bahamut is special since he's so powerful and can use his own power to hop between the planes, and he got trapped in a Dalamud egg here. Point is, we don't know and it's 100% possible for there to be loopholes in this so it's not all that relevant.

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TL;DR If Bahamut is inside Dalamud what Planeswalker is supplying his upkeep cost and how over the amount of time that satellite has been up there til now?

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We don't even know if there needs to be an upkeep after the initial plane switch.

First I have to say that I love this thread and all of the speculation in it.

I don't think that Louisoix is Thallak or Rhalgr, I think he's a summoner, just based on the fact that his staff has a horn on top. I would lean closer to Thallak than Rhalgr, though, looking at the pictures TenraiNagi posted.

I think that he is going to end up sacrificing himself in some way to save us/Eorzea.

After you defeat Van Darnus, Cid says something along the lines of "we won't have to use the 'last resort' that Louisoix keeps muttering about." But, we know already that it will probably come to a last resort scenario, especially from what the trailer tells us.

In the trailer for ARR, it transitions straight from his face into a roaring Behemoth. So, maybe he will end up sacrificing his body and end up transforming into a behemoth as a result of all that aether bending/warping all that space and time and matter? Just a thought. It does seem to have a beard in the trailer. I think it would be cool. :P

Also, aren't we forgetting that in the lore, Dalamud is supposed to be Memphina's loyal hound? Maybe it houses Fenrir. From Wikipedia, "due to the gods' knowledge of prophecies foretelling great trouble from Fenrir and his rapid growth, the gods bound him, and as a result Fenrir bit off the right hand of the god Týr." He is also supposed to kill Odin. Though, I think it will be full of all sorts of bad things, like mandragoras.

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Originally Posted by Resheph

First I have to say that I love this thread and all of the speculation in it.

I don't think that Louisoix is Thallak or Rhalgr, I think he's a summoner, just based on the fact that his staff has a horn on top. I would lean closer to Thallak than Rhalgr, though, looking at the pictures TenraiNagi posted.

I think that he is going to end up sacrificing himself in some way to save us/Eorzea.

After you defeat Van Darnus, Cid says something along the lines of "we won't have to use the 'last resort' that Louisoix keeps muttering about." But, we know already that it will probably come to a last resort scenario, especially from what the trailer tells us.

In the trailer for ARR, it transitions straight from his face into a roaring Behemoth. So, maybe he will end up sacrificing his body and end up transforming into a behemoth as a result of all that aether bending/warping all that space and time and matter? Just a thought. It does seem to have a beard in the trailer. I think it would be cool. :P

Also, aren't we forgetting that in the lore, Dalamud is supposed to be Memphina's loyal hound? Maybe it houses Fenrir. From Wikipedia, "due to the gods' knowledge of prophecies foretelling great trouble from Fenrir and his rapid growth, the gods bound him, and as a result Fenrir bit off the right hand of the god Týr." He is also supposed to kill Odin. Though, I think it will be full of all sorts of bad things, like mandragoras.

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You make so much sense, and I love your speculation that Louis is a summoner. All he talks about is the primals after all. And the article I referred to earlier also mentions Memphina and her hound.

Quote:

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A great many believe that Menphina's hound is bathed in the blood of a vile fiend who had designs upon his mistress's life, even as others swear that the changes portend the Seventh Umbral Era.

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http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...ews/num05.html

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Originally Posted by MrKupo

You make so much sense, and I love your speculation that Louis is a summoner. All he talks about is the primals after all. And the article I referred to earlier also mentions Memphina and her hound.



http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...ews/num05.html

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Yes, that article was what made me think of it, too. I just didn't remember where I had read that. I think that a lot of parallels can be drawn between Fenrir as a giant, growing, wolf bound/banished because of a prophecy that he would herald the end of the world and the deaths of several gods and Dalamud as a moon that is literally growing in the sky and is connected to the 7th umbral era/end of the world. It's interesting to note that the Astral/Umbral eras are cycles of Life/Death and that Ragnarok ends with the world being born anew.

Edit: I wouldn't be surprised though, that if Fenrir, Odin, Bahamut, Nidhogg, and all of the other bad things sleeping in the earth are awakened/brought forth or down on our heads as a result of Dalamud in some way or another.

nice post OP, enjoyed it

After my last post I actually thought to myself that Urianger is probably a summoner, too. After all, what has he done in every encounter we have had with him? In quests and the previous random appearances at aetheryte camps, he would summon monsters that we'd have to fight. Speaks pretty powerfully to me.

I haven't read the entire thread but incase they weren't mentioned...

Theres only 2 confirmed Archon's from the ingame text.

6th Umbral Era
Rhalgar - (Forgot his name, our old LS forums gone soooo, but the quest states his actual name) He was the champion of the Uldahn Colosseum, which may be why the Rhalgar stone is near the city.

7th Umbral Era
Urainger, In game text doesn't mention which of the 12 he is the reincarnation of IIRC. But with how chummy he is with Loiusx he might be Thalliak and had given Loiousx (sorry I can't spell his name at all) that engraved staff as a sign of mutual cooperation.



Also about that 13th Diety, its not the first time FF has added a "hidden" one. Tactics had a 13th Zodiac symbol, Serpentris which wasn't mentioned anywhere in the game until you got to that secret battle.

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Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

Odin.

Odin will the the entity called forwarth from Dalamud.

If I recall my FF lore Odin has been the bringer of ragnarok, aka judgement day, aka, the end of the world. A little research into Odin mythology reveals Odin is often accompanied by 2 ravens and 2 wolves.

In FFXIV we have Neal Van Darnus "The White Raven" and Gaius van Baelsar "the black wolf"

Lets not forget about Gaius van Baelsar, maybe he's the one to finish what Van Darnus has started.

At any rate I believe Odin is the being jailed away in Dalamud, and is the reason for bringing the red moon down upon Eorzea.

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I tend to agree with this, and that's some pretty interesting info concerning the raven and the wolf accompanying Odin. Odin is a much more solid choice of what's housed in Dalamud than Bahamut given his presence in the trailer and ARR. It's not to say that other nasty things aren't there, but this makes the most sense.

As for the speculation in the original post, there's some interesting stuff there. I do think Louisoix is more than he seems to be. Gaius van Baelsar (the wolf) probably won't have much of an impact until ARR since he was involved more in the main scenario than the Seven Umbral Era story. I also think the Echo won't have any effect on the outcome due to the previous reason. That and the Echo wasn't utilized in any content developed for the Seven Umbral Era that I can recall.

Guess we'll just have to wait and see. Hopefully 1.23a will have some more story tidbits. Things ended wait too...jovially in the final cutscene of To Kill a Raven.