Out of touch? PLL

They have a unhealthy obsession with Trial Style Combat.

I can't say I'm disappointed because I didn't expect anything better than what we got but I'm still kinda bummed out. A new Alliance Raid is good, will run it for a while weekly to get my coins. Byakko Unreal should also be fine, it's one of the easier Extreme fights so it should be easily doable in PF. The rest, though? The housing update is great...for people who have a house. I have zero interest in Ultimate. Chaotic looks like it's going to be dead content beyond some Discord organised groups because progging content with 24 people sounds like a nightmare. I also have serious doubts about the rewards from it being worthwhile. I detest Hildibrand and I'm just hoping they won't force me to do it again like they did in Endwalker.

Casual players are given nothing to do besides half an hour a week. That's pretty dire.

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Originally Posted by Heavenchild

But thats nothing you can play around with for over 4 month. :/

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more than half a year and repeatable for me

As somebody would say in another thread "7.1 will be 7.0 part 2".

The only endearing thing to me was this Chaotic raid, but judging by the screenshot, it's seems like a bunch of mechanics we already know, same Alliance Raid format, but Savage-harder that punishes poor execution.

Other than that... meh? I absolutely would LOVE to be proven wrong, but these Live Letters are quite bad to hype up things. My sub runs out somewhere late November, so there's enough time to at least check the patch to see about that, but I guess it's time to shelf XIV for a while.

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

Did people really expect YoshiP to address the criticism regarding DT? It was clear from the start that he wouldn't do so.

And yikes, 7.1 mid November? I'll be pausing my sub until then. Doesn't look exciting.

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6 weeks from now, seems normal to me.
My sub will expire end of October. I'm probably going to wait and see if I should re-sub, seeing I haven't logged in much since I cleared DT story and finished my gatherers and crafters.
Only thing I was looking forward to was the FF11 raid and, from my understanding we didn't see anything but a few images? I could be wrong, I didn't watch the PLL live.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

That’s unfair to the BA and DRS discords who do literally everything they possibly can to make the content as accessible as possible for people. Literally their only requirement is just have discord and listen to shot calls to not wipe the raid

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Ehm...I don't get how it's unfair to say that when even you admit it's still locked behind discord?

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

Only thing I was looking forward to was the FF11 raid and, from my understanding we didn't see anything but a few images? I could be wrong, I didn't watch the PLL live.

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They showed a screenshot of a reimagined Castle Zvahl throne room ahead of time, and then the PLL itself showed a screenshot of Lower Jeuno and Prishe on the patch's poster art. That's it.

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Originally Posted by Aniise

Ehm...I don't get how it's unfair to say that when even you admit it's still locked behind discord?

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You said “no chance for other people to complete” as if the discords are gatekeeping the content when they just want to help

Asking for a discord is not a high bar to ask for some level of cooperation with others

It's incredible how disingenuous the forums still are thinking their small minority voice will warrant addressing anything in a LL. That echo chamber really failing yall. Stay mad.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

It's incredible how disingenuous the forums still are thinking their small minority voice will warrant addressing anything in a LL. That echo chamber really failing yall. Stay mad.

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Yet here you're gloating over it and being antagonistic, another chufftey badge to display?

Bozja's large scale dungeons were a nightmare for a long time with the amount of bad players expecting to be carried. If Super Cloud of Darkness is harder than Delubrum the rewards better be VERY worth it because coordinating 3 full parties in this game is frankly a pain in the ass.

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Originally Posted by lolnotacat

After the first month it will become niche content that'll be filled only by discord groups.

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Dreading this. More content I can't do. Really hate relying on external sources to play a game. Also, did you note the potential loot lockout? Wish it weren't so.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

You said “no chance for other people to complete” as if the discords are gatekeeping the content when they just want to help

Asking for a discord is not a high bar to ask for some level of cooperation with others

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Hearing some needs scream in your ear or listening to people yammer back and forth is the opposite of a good time. I personally hate being in large group chats.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

It's incredible how disingenuous the forums still are thinking their small minority voice will warrant addressing anything in a LL. That echo chamber really failing yall. Stay mad.

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It’s amazing people will come to a place designated as the place to offer feedback on a game and gloat that we are being ignored

Parasocial relationships with devs who don’t know who you are aren’t healthy kids

Having only dailies and weekly alliance for casuals from November untill late March or early April makes me worried for this game. Atleast alot of good single players games are releasing the next 9 months. Lets hope 7.2 has more content for the casuals.

I'm fine with more hardcore content, sadly i do not like 24 man content at all.

I guess I'm looking forward for PVP changes, my hopes are they reduce self survivability a bit, I think tuning down Guard and how many uses we get of self heal would make PVP more exciting, introducing a little more strength to target/healing abilities without making them a requirement would be ideal for me, I also think CC needs new features like allowing friends to join at least in casual matches, I also think we should allow normal chat. (Honestly doubt this last one)

Wasn't expecting much really, I'm not "hyped" for 7.1 still not, it's mildly exciting for me at best in general, I wish we would also be getting it earlier then mid November, theirs not a lot to do right now, but I suppose this is to be expected...

(edit) Just to add if i'd have to give it a rating likely be a 4/10, I wasn't expecting to much.

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Originally Posted by PaulH

Yet here you're gloating over it and being antagonistic, another chufftey badge to display?

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Yeah, I'm trying to fit in with the overall antagonistic vibe of the forums. The only thing that's still out of touch are the forums, as per normal.

Forum feedback has never been valued, because it is the minority. Pretty sure with the amount of raid clears this tier, they consider DT engagement a massive success. There is nothing likely needing addressing from a numbers perspective. Not that they EVER would have intended to be like "omg, the forums are complaining, we must address immediately!!!!"

Only terminally online folks on these forums think their toxicity is valid. Ya'll can hold this L, just like that #HeAlErStrIKE!

Isn’t PLL part 1 always introduce new features for a patch and it is until part 2 he will answer player base concerns?
Jump the gun much?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

Yeah, I'm trying to fit in with the overall antagonistic vibe of the forums. The only thing that's still out of touch are the forums, as per normal.

Forum feedback has never been valued, because it is the minority. Pretty sure with the amount of raid clears this tier, they consider DT engagement a massive success. There is nothing likely needing addressing from a numbers perspective. Not that they EVER would have intended to be like "omg, the forums are complaining, we must address immediately!!!!"

Only terminally online folks on these forums think their toxicity is valid. Ya'll can hold this L, just like that #HeAlErStrIKE!

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Utterly bizarre that people who share different perspectives to you is problematic and you need to reinforce gloating with utterly dreary comments. I hope people who feel lack of joy or frustration are able to find fulfilment elsewhere or reconcile their relationship with the game in a different way. You're simply unpleasant and not worth anymore of my calories.

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Originally Posted by Valence

They literally removed 90% of the actual raid to focus on the last boss and make it YET ANOTHER trial/raid with a single boss in the middle of an arena regurgitating YET MORE OF THE SAME mechanics. What a joke.

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Its exhausting that so much of content in this game is "circular/rectangular arena with a boss", and nothing more. There are also legit examples of where Square makes good stuff, like some encounters we had in Bozja that were so full of creativity and fun (remember having to rush through rooms to save prisoners?) that it makes this "boss in room" feel like eating the same slop over and over again.

But hey, at least players can now have the voices of the scions accompany them in Mahjong! Game is saved GOTY 11/10.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

They showed a screenshot of a reimagined Castle Zvahl throne room ahead of time, and then the PLL itself showed a screenshot of Lower Jeuno and Prishe on the patch's poster art. That's it.

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Well, that's a bit disappointing. I assume they'll show it off in part 2 but still. Feels outdated to show a prerendered jpg as a "teaser". It worked maybe in 2013.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

It's incredible how disingenuous the forums still are thinking their small minority voice will warrant addressing anything in a LL. That echo chamber really failing yall. Stay mad.

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You must be new here. Always been always will be like that. Same goes to any gated community. Twitter, this forum, reddit.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

Forum feedback has never been valued, because it is the minority. Pretty sure with the amount of raid clears this tier, they consider DT engagement a massive success. There is nothing likely needing addressing from a numbers perspective. Not that they EVER would have intended to be like "omg, the forums are complaining, we must address immediately!!!!"

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What is your fix? How should they collect feedback? Just cause they don't post here doesn't mean CM are reading reporting back relevant discussions to the development team.
I sound like a shill for stating the obvious.

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Originally Posted by PaulH

I hope people who feel lack of joy or frustration are able to find fulfilment elsewhere or reconcile their relationship with the game in a different way.

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Unironically, the smartest thing you could have said. If only the forums took this stance to heart, we may actually have some productive conversation instead of harping on every single aspect of the game. With the amount of complaints on these forums, you'd swear there isn't a single redeeming quality of XIV.

Again, stay mad that you and others didn't get their "demands" addressed. Y'all can make good on those I quit posts now while you're at it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

Unironically, the smartest thing you could have said. If only the forums took this stance to heart, we may actually have some productive conversation instead of harping on every single aspect of the game. With the amount of complaints on these forums, you'd swear there isn't a single redeeming quality of XIV.

Again, stay mad that you and others didn't get their "demands" addressed. Y'all can make good on those I quit posts now while you're at it.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by PaulH

I am a casual player and the direction of travel isn't what I desire but I just do the minimum and play other games which is great fun and I am looking forward to PoE2.

After they changed Scholar significantly i just moved to dps and other roles than i enjoy and just found my happy place and just accepted the game moved on. I would spend more time in 14 with stuff to do but nothing appeals and I just have put myself in my the head space of enjoy the story and the casual content and moved to jobs that I find fun.

It is sad to see people upset about the changes or lack of things they like doing and I get the frustration. I do wish people wouldnt say uninstall or just dismiss others concerns it is dreary, unhelpful and at times can be toxic. I can only suggest as an option to play the game in a way you can still invest some time and that suits your finances as for me when the fun stops i stop and its worked out well as silly games like supermarket simulator has been fun.

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Can you please cite my demands or where I am mad.... You are very melodramatic, unpleasant and just silly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

Unironically, the smartest thing you could have said. If only the forums took this stance to heart, we may actually have some productive conversation instead of harping on every single aspect of the game. With the amount of complaints on these forums, you'd swear there isn't a single redeeming quality of XIV.

Again, stay mad that you and others didn't get their "demands" addressed. Y'all can make good on those I quit posts now while you're at it.

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Funny enough, I took a week break from the game. When I picked it back up I had fun. Then when I came to the forum and started reading I became miserable. Maybe time to block the forum from myself. Social media has never been my thing, not sure why I decided to check out the forums. Think this'll be my sign off. Not for the game. But this place.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Isn’t PLL part 1 always introduce new features for a patch and it is until part 2 he will answer player base concerns?
Jump the gun much?

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Correct. We didn't even get shown two different content we know we will be getting. The cosmic exploration and that Bermuda Triangle thing they hinted at. Part 1 of most LLs are anemic with information let alone going over or showing things that we weren't already expecting.

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Originally Posted by ovIm

Its exhausting that so much of content in this game is "circular/rectangular arena with a boss", and nothing more.

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Thank god I had no expectations of this hyped up hard Alliance Raid.

They could have made crystal tower in hard, where you have to respect mechanics and add some new ones.
Interesting trash packs or whatever.
Instead it’s just another fight of only a boss, another savage fight disguised as something new.

Also that whole “tehe, we made it savage instead of extreme, whoopsy” is just criterion all over again.
It’s the same as always.
Hardcore raiders get all the fun and midcore keeps starving.
They get savage on release and ultimate plus this one now and in the future more criterion, more ultimates and probably more of this alliance raid stuff.
It’s the only group that matters for them nowadays I think.

It will just be another discord monster and streamer content like I thought.

The only saving grace is that Wuk Lamat wasn’t in the artwork so that gives me hope at least for the future of the story.

My sub runs out in a few days and from what I have seen I don’t think I will resub for 7.1.
Maybe later when there is actual content for me.

I wish the hardcore players and the housing people fun. At least you get something with this patch.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Correct. We didn't even get shown two different content we know we will be getting. The cosmic exploration and that Bermuda Triangle thing they hinted at. Part 1 of most LLs are anemic with information let alone going over or showing things that we weren't already expecting.

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bermuda triangle thing is most likely for 7.2 (probably 7.25) from previous expansions. Cosmic exploration is 6.15 at best. Not sure if it's gonna be there.

What’s the point of holding back long form content for so long

People complained for example that bozja’s grind was too long for the ray’s, maybe that grind would have gone better if it didn’t literally start in 5.55

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sensui

Funny enough, I took a week break from the game. When I picked it back up I had fun. Then when I came to the forum and started reading I became miserable. Maybe time to block the forum from myself. Social media has never been my thing, not sure why I decided to check out the forums. Think this'll be my sign off. Not for the game. But this place.

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Sounds like going to the internet in general to be fair, lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CNitsah

bermuda triangle thing is most likely for 7.2 (probably 7.25) from previous expansions. Cosmic exploration is 6.15 at best. Not sure if it's gonna be there.

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I'm not sure they would hint at it as early as Chinese Fan Fest or in the most recent interviews if it was to be in 7.2. Especially since we were told about it before Yoshida dropped savage alliance only in the most recent of interviews. As cosmic exploration is to be our next Ishgardian restoration while the Bermuda triangle thing is meant to be our next Bozja.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PaulH

Can you please cite my demands or where I am mad.... You are very melodramatic, unpleasant and just silly.

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You felt the need to reply to my initial comment. That's proof something I said triggered you enough. If you are 100% ok with the game then that comment wasn't for you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

What is your fix? How should they collect feedback? Just cause they don't post here doesn't mean CM are reading reporting back relevant discussions to the development team.
I sound like a shill for stating the obvious.

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The fix is simply, devs should make the game the way they want to make it and not listen too much to the forums. Let people decide if they want to play or not. Creativity in XIV has died largely due to negative feedback from the forums.

Majority forum feedback is not constructive, and the few threads that have been started with good premise devolve quickly into another cesspool as the bad actors flood in with their holier than thou opinions.

The only driving force of XIV should be their engagement numbers. If that's their version of "fine" then, nothing needs to be changed. If they want more direct feedback, they should send out surveys that hit all of the playerbase to see what's the opinion of anything, and if you see that nothing has changed than that's your key to understand the majority are ok with what already is.

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Originally Posted by lolnotacat

After the first month it will become niche content that'll be filled only by discord groups.

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You really think it will last a month? I give it a week at best.

It will suffer the same fate as Criterion, Delubrum Savage and unreal trials.

Too hard for the comfort level of the general playerbase and most likely not rewarding enough for the ones who could do it.
Perfect combination, works everytime. Oh wait it dosn't.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

You felt the need to reply to my initial comment. That's proof something I said triggered you enough. If you are 100% ok with the game then that comment wasn't for you.



The fix is simply, devs should make the game the way they want to make it and not listen too much to the forums. Let people decide if they want to play or not. Creativity in XIV has died largely due to negative feedback from the forums.

Majority forum feedback is not constructive, and the few threads that have been started with good premise devolve quickly into another cesspool as the bad actors flood in with their holier than thou opinions.

The only driving force of XIV should be their engagement numbers. If that's their version of "fine" then, nothing needs to be changed. If they want more direct feedback, they should send out surveys that hit all of the playerbase to see what's the opinion of anything, and if you see that nothing has changed than that's your key to understand the majority are ok with what already is.

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I physically cannot imagine the amount of bad publicity a game would get from the devs basically telling their playerbase to either F off or follow because they decide where the game goes and our feedback means nothing

Like in a live service game that’s just about the worst thing you can possibly do short of intentionally setting fire to your own server building

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Originally Posted by Heavenchild

I saw the actual PLL and I wondered why they only introduced more extreme/savage like content to do.

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It's only what they have done for the last 11 years. I don't know why you were expecting anything else when that's all they've ever done.

Quote:

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The majority of the playerbase is casual, isn't it? How can they forget to deliver casual content to do? Did I miss something? What do you think about this?

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They did announce Chaotic difficulty alliance raids. Although that was initially described as Savage through translations, it's possible this will still be approachable for more midcore players due to them being large scale.

Quote:

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And are you also very unsatisfied that they had no new information regarding to the graphics update?

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It would have been nice, but I'm really just expecting us to get updates to older areas and content which was unchanged so far.

I like the assumption that the "Hard Alliance Raid" is already so scary and terrifying for the Casual player base.
Didn't know people already could see the future. Then again, it falls on the debacle that nothing in this game is genuinely hard, as long as the player puts a mediocre amount of effort into learning.
Until people genuinely lose their fears of doing midcore content, they will always be "niche", and that's what drives the Devs away from trying to make more mid-core content for people.

I am not super-stoked over being just a "Trial fight", but I am genuinely excited to see how it will play out. I have been one of many complainers that Alliance Raids are ridiculously easy and not fun to do because there is absolutely no challenge at all.
After all, content that should last a good while, often is crippled to attend to a more casual playerbase and run the difficulty to the ground, much likely Ivalice Raids and even NiER raids, as people just don't want to do those because 'it is too hard'. We even have Echo buff in all Ivalice raids since then, it is baffling.

What will keep a decent longevity of the content is to see what rewards they will give, but they will only make more if there's engagement to it.
And I don't really expect anything from the community, tbqh.
FFXIV game is treated as a social MMO, and this has been the casual content players often play. Weird to complain, when the game is actually focused on those people and the lack of gameplay has been something real for years now.

Overall, the new things presented are interesting, but I feel like I need to see more.

Housing changes is A MASSIVE W, tho. Because that will really diminish the fights for Larges/Mediums unless it is for exterior purposes. Will be really good to have people be comfortable doing the things they actually want in decoration, and I can't wait to see it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

You felt the need to reply to my initial comment. That's proof something I said triggered you enough. If you are 100% ok with the game then that comment wasn't for you.



The fix is simply, devs should make the game the way they want to make it and not listen too much to the forums. Let people decide if they want to play or not. Creativity in XIV has died largely due to negative feedback from the forums.

Majority forum feedback is not constructive, and the few threads that have been started with good premise devolve quickly into another cesspool as the bad actors flood in with their holier than thou opinions.

The only driving force of XIV should be their engagement numbers. If that's their version of "fine" then, nothing needs to be changed. If they want more direct feedback, they should send out surveys that hit all of the playerbase to see what's the opinion of anything, and if you see that nothing has changed than that's your key to understand the majority are ok with what already is.

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How do you expect the game to improve? Do you think they didn't collect feedback in the 90s for the older games?

I know that this LL was part 1 of 2, but I'm slightly concerned that everything they listed was content that will be done quickly or is the "do once a day/once a week until finished" type of content, plus the Ultimate (which a lot of people do eventually, but let's be real, most people will just be watching the groups try to beat it first).
Nothing about the Space Exploration or the start of the relic. I don't even know how to count the Chaotic raid because I don't know the rewards structure (could be good, could be a dud like Criterion).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SannaR

I'm not sure they would hint at it as early as Chinese Fan Fest or in the most recent interviews if it was to be in 7.2. Especially since we were told about it before Yoshida dropped savage alliance only in the most recent of interviews. As cosmic exploration is to be our next Ishgardian restoration while the Bermuda triangle thing is meant to be our next Bozja.

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Eureka was announced before Stormblood launched and it didn't come out until 4.25.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OMGJesuis66

I like the assumption that the "Hard Alliance Raid" is already so scary and terrifying for the Casual player base.
Didn't know people already could see the future. Then again, it falls on the debacle that nothing in this game is genuinely hard, as long as the player puts a mediocre amount of effort into learning.
Until people genuinely lose their fears of doing midcore content, they will always be "niche", and that's what drives the Devs away from trying to make more mid-core content for people.

I am not super-stoked over being just a "Trial fight", but I am genuinely excited to see how it will play out. I have been one of many complainers that Alliance Raids are ridiculously easy and not fun to do because there is absolutely no challenge at all.
After all, content that should last a good while, often is crippled to attend to a more casual playerbase and run the difficulty to the ground, much likely Ivalice Raids and even NiER raids, as people just don't want to do those because 'it is too hard'. We even have Echo buff in all Ivalice raids since then, it is baffling.

What will keep a decent longevity of the content is to see what rewards they will give, but they will only make more if there's engagement to it.
And I don't really expect anything from the community, tbqh.
FFXIV game is treated as a social MMO, and this has been the casual content players often play. Weird to complain, when the game is actually focused on those people and the lack of gameplay has been something real for years now.

Overall, the new things presented are interesting, but I feel like I need to see more.

Housing changes is A MASSIVE W, tho. Because that will really diminish the fights for Larges/Mediums unless it is for exterior purposes. Will be really good to have people be comfortable doing the things they actually want in decoration, and I can't wait to see it.

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How can you say it is focused on casual content when all endgame patches are savage/extreme/ultimates? There is no casual content with longevity currently in Dawntrail. And not all of us RP and go to venues.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alice_Rivers

Presumably, if you have a good memory the same applies to extreme going into savage.

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Yes. There are actually some savage floors that are easier or about the same as an extreme. If you can do an extreme you can at least get through the first 2 floors of savage usually.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Awkward

No, but then again they've never had an expansion this poorly received before either.

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Probably not, but ARR and Stormblood weren't exactly praised either. After Stormblood released, even if people weren't as critical of it, they at least continued to say that Heavensward was the best expansion and that the pacing (split between Ala Mhigo and Othard) was problematic from their perspective.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Heavenchild

October to 2nd November would be 4th month.

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It has been a bit more than 4 months for every EW patch. In EW, it was 18-20 weeks between each major patch and it will be about 19 this time.

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I want SE to invest more an hire more people.

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I guarantee they are. They have talked of training new people on a regular basis in blogs and at fanfest panels. They often advertise jobs at the end of Live Letters if they are struggling to fill them. If you look at the job listings for CBU3, you can usually find loads of them going that specifically reference FFXIV or imply it so heavily that it's obvious. I know this because I've glanced at them periodically over the years.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ayalu

They have a unhealthy obsession with Trial Style Combat.

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Corridors with trash often lead to criticism such as "we have to go through all that to get to the real boss", "trash is easy for raiders what's the point", "it inflates the time it takes to do the content when the real boss with the loot is at the end".

We still have this problem with last floor savage usually where there is a doorboss and it frustrates a lot of people who have to get through it to get to the "real boss" that they want to prog. Once they are through it, they can't leave to get something to eat without having to face doorboss again. It's this very problem that trials tend to solve.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ovIm

Its exhausting that so much of content in this game is "circular/rectangular arena with a boss", and nothing more.

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Maybe, but I don't personally have a problem with it. I suppose some people see it this way. I just don't...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

What’s the point of holding back long form content for so long

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So it can be developed. I think the issue with doing it earlier is how their focus is on the expansion and its story, the primary selling point of the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Infindox

I'm slightly concerned that everything they listed was content that will be done quickly or is the "do once a day/once a week until finished" type of content

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Content is what you make of it. Do it once for story, or do it lots of times for mounts, TT cards, etc.