So what is this about content becoming harder with the Savage cleared in 9 hours

Have you cleared it?





Alright.
https://cdn.betterttv.net/emote/5803...e35267/1x.webp

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skyclaw726

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person who doesn't care about these clear races. Do they have any impact on the game at all? Does clearing this savage tier in 9 hours actually mean anything?

---

It just means the game is becoming more and more esport-y if anything. That's about it. This can play into how SE decides to design such fights and the job balances that encompass that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bonoki

It just means the game is becoming more and more esport-y if anything. That's about it. This can play into how SE decides to design such fights and the job balances that encompass that.

---

Ugh. If there's one thing I hate most about the game industry it's bloody eSports.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raikai

Doubt it, because those people who clear all 4 fights on week is a tiny fraction of the people playing Savages. If the game tunes the encounters to cater directly to those people, it will suddenly become too much for the rest of that audience.

---

I award you a like for sanest comment.

The only thing that I would add is that I am surprised that the gear cycle was essentially proven near irrelevant by this. People seem to forget you can only reintroduce so many variants of existing boss mechanics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andevom

Where is the evidence it's taking half the time?

---

Literally two pages back. Here's the quote.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoOneofConsequence

Because someone mentioned it
Here are some clear times for comparisons.
Abyssos (P8S) Was cleared in a single day.
Asphedelos (P4S) was cleared in 14 hours
Eden's Promise Eternity was cleared in a single day.
Eden's Verse was cleared in a single day.
Eden's Gate was cleared in 14 hours
Alphascape(12.0S) was cleared after a single day.
Sigmascape (8.0S) was 17 hours.
DeltaScape (4.0S) was 16 hours with a noteable 13 minute tier 1 clear.

Noteworthy mention - Epic Alexander was only 3 days. DSR was 6 days. TOP was 7 days (3rd party tool clear - so not officially recognized), UWU was 5 days.

Source - World Progression Final Fantasy Fandom

Also note that 6.4 QoL change of Cooldowns resetting on a wipe would reduce downtime between pulls.

---

9 hours is just about half of 14-17, and about a third of 24+.

PF is already on turn 4 LOL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TakeshiNakazato

PF is already on turn 4 LOL

---

"But it's only easy for the highest end raiders!"

https://i.redd.it/6wu28g37nct71.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Isala

Literally two pages back. Here's the quote.



9 hours is just about half of 14-17, and about a third of 24+.

---

But that's including second and third tiers of raid sets, which isn't a fair comparison.

I'd be more interested to see if this trend is the case on a larger scale than just world first groups, which we don't really have metrics for (that I know of). Everything else is anecdotal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andevom

But that's including second and third tiers of raid sets, which isn't a fair comparison.

I'd be more interested to see if this trend is the case on a larger scale than just world first groups, which we don't really have metrics for (that I know of). Everything else is anecdotal.

---

Scroll up. We've got PFs on 4. That's pretty damn telling that in 24 hours, even PFs are on 4, when that wouldn't even have been a world first.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Isala

Judging by the patch notes, they didn't play test this expansion

---

Maybe they got bored and skipped the MSQ too

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Isala

Scroll up. We've got PFs on 4. That's pretty damn telling that in 24 hours, even PFs are on 4, when that wouldn't even have been a world first.

---

Yes, I saw. And this is what my PF looks like right now:

https://i.imgur.com/Jdxsrpd.png

Who cares. WoW catered to World First Races and look how that turned out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Conando

Who cares. WoW catered to World First Races and look how that turned out.

---

The depressing part is I feel like a lot of the people wanting drastic changes to 14 are people who are "WoW refugees" but then they want Squeenix to change everything to be just like that game they ditched.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HighlanderClone

:confused: :confused: http://10.png

---

I know this will come as a shock.. but the game is designed to be beaten. Last time it wasn't designed to be beaten, we got Gordias...

I really don't think difficulty or the length of the world's first race matters at all.

FFXIV has a fundamental content design problem in that everything is instanced, scripted, with samey jobs and daily or weekly lockouts. You learn the fight once on Tuesday, you log off until next Tuesday to run it again because what the hell else are you going to do for the next six months until the next content update?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shibi

Just to put it in perspective for me, what's the normal cleartime for a savage on day 1?
Thanks

---

12 to 14 hours more or less

also the "content becoming harder" is for casual content not for high end content

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HighlanderClone

20-30 hrshttp://10char.png

---

2nd/3rd tier take 30-35hours, first tier is 12-14hours usually

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Isala

Fact 1. The Devs promised harder content.
Fact 2. The same skill level of player that cleared the previous content cleared this content in half or even a third of the time it took to clear previous raid tiers.

Conclusion: The game did not, in fact, get harder. And with equal skill level, got easier.

These are not stretches of logic, these are not assumptions. These are actual facts. It's not like these players suddenly got double or triple the skill level they already had.

---

half/third of the usual time

from 12 to 9 or 14 to 9 ? xd

Fact 0. You dont know shit

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Isala

"But it's only easy for the highest end raiders!"

https://i.redd.it/6wu28g37nct71.jpg

---

meanwhile, Isala didn't even clear m1s

Cleared first fight and progging second. The difficulty is about what I expected for the first of the expansion, I kinda assumed they might be conservative with difficulty as well given their switching up of mechanics. Give players a tier to experience and adjust to a new style of encounters.

Honestly really enjoying them so far! A breathe of fresh air for me personally. I don't need savage to be difficult enough to make a long world first race, It's nice to watch but I rather savage is enjoyable for a majority of the playerbase.

I expect the next tier will have more difficulty and a longer race, looking forward to doing the rest of this tier over the next few days.

Having cleared the first three fights myself, I can say they are probably a bit too easy. It just very undertuned because you can have a fair amount of mistakes and still get the clear.

24man extreme, please look forward to it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CaedemSanguis

meanwhile, Isala didn't even clear m1s

---

Oh noes, my raid group that runs on the weekends didn't raid on a Tuesday.

Still doesn't stop this tier from being as much of a joke as the rest of DTs expansion if even the PF is working on 4S, and you know it.

From what I understand, a lot of this has to do with a lack of body check style mechanics that everyone was complaining about from Endwalker. This, combined with buffing a ton of jobs to match Pictomancer on the patch day resulted in more lenient dps checks and fewer "one mistake and the party dies" mechanics.

The people I've talked to who have cleared the fights praised the mechanics, they're more fun, and it's not so much that they're easier, there's just less "a person sneezes and the group instantly dies" content. The healers I've talked to have been especially happy, as with fewer instant death mechanics, they've felt their role has some meaning again.

Again, haven't done it myself, just done a bit of prog hour 1 in PF, but from people who have actually done this content, I'm not hearing many complaints.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Volgia

I'm taking my time, but I've been seeing friends already at M4S and it hasn't even been more than a day.

---

Yeah my group is already halfway through M4S after 6 hours.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sacae

The people I've talked to who have cleared the fights praised the mechanics, they're more fun, and it's not so much that they're easier, there's just less "a person sneezes and the group instantly dies" content. The healers I've talked to have been especially happy, as with fewer instant death mechanics, they've felt their role has some meaning again.

---

The lack of body check mechanics is welcome but none of the mechanics are fresh or interesting. Maybe mildly more fun (M2S) but they're the same old uninspired recycled combos of "protean", "pairs", "stack", "spread", "in", "out".

I'm also friends with world prog raiders and they also said the tier was shit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by koko-on-da-forumz

FFXIV has a fundamental content design problem in that everything is instanced, scripted, with samey jobs and daily or weekly lockouts. You learn the fight once on Tuesday, you log off until next Tuesday to run it again because what the hell else are you going to do for the next six months until the next content update?

---

This too. The fights are so scripted and boring. For most players it becomes very dull after clearing since it has virtually zero variance. And for players like me who are vets it has become even boring during prog.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

just "more exciting" and faster-paced and have more original mechanics again

---

Well I've basically seen all of M4S at this point and none of the mechanics are original, nor were they really "faster-paced".

The only interesting mechanic was M2N's Act 1 (or was it 2) where you have a stack marker and heart spam everywhere. That actually felt like something new in FF14, but lol that was 20 seconds out of 50 minutes of uninspiring, recycled fight designs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Plumerian_Ariadust

Just because the highly skilled and hardcore players who probably had a lot of time practicing and coordinating can do it in less than a day. Doesn't mean the that the average player can do too.

---

Lol ok my midcore static is on m4s after 6 hours lmfao

We weren't even a week 1 group and were aiming to clear it week 2.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Avoidy

I feel like we go through this conversation every tier. Some experienced raiders go out of their way to bruteforce the new content, basically pissjugging for 14 hours straight and clear it in a small amount of time because they're trying for worldfirst, and then people on the forums who haven't even stepped inside yet complain that this means it's too easy.

---

I literally talk to world prog raiders (not randos but people who are w1st/2nd/3rd) and get their opinions and my own static is already on m4s but go off assuming lmao.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cyanamists

SE should be faulted for undertuning HP values, even asphedelos 4th floor had dps checks(you could argue some jobs were just bad) but now it just feels like they didn't bother checking max output of everyone's damage and scaled it way down.

---

My week 1 static full of 99th percentile parsing gamers actually hit enrage a couple times on p4s part 1. For this tier, I was talking to my FC and the world prog team wasn't even close to enrage when clearing it, and there was a group that cleared it with someone dead for an entire minute.

This tier in his words: "didn't even need pentamelded gear"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Isala

"But it's only easy for the highest end raiders!"

https://i.redd.it/6wu28g37nct71.jpg

---

People who are asking "have you cleared it" in this thread are not Savage raiders lmao.

They literally know nothing. They have no perspective.

That's why they assume everyone is at the same level as them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TakeshiNakazato

PF is already on turn 4 LOL

---

We had turn 4 savage on Asphodelos and Abyssos on PF first day as far as i remember.

I cleared 1, 2, 3 on the first week in Anabeisos, and 1 and 2 on the first week in both Asphodelos and Abyssos, i didn't go all day but if I had i'd probably would have made it to turn 4/8/12 within the second day on PF. Remember a lot of people take their time with the fights and do 2 - 3 hours twice a week, not everyone is rushing to finish the content asap.

That being said, not on M4S yet myself, but I hope M5S - M8S is harder. M2S had fun mechs with Honey B being able to heal herself if you screwed up mechs, I like it so far.

EDIT: I'm a PF warrior, I hold no static.

From what I have seen there are no puzzle mechs, its all about mechanical execution. Low dps requirement combined with no body checks as well.

This makes it easy for experienced raiders.

Not sure about PF, there are always complaints how bad it is since PF always get walled on something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Somnolence

From what I have seen there are no puzzle mechs, its all about mechanical execution. Low dps requirement combined with no body checks as well.

This makes it easy for experienced raiders.

Not sure about PF, there are always complaints how bad it is since PF always get walled on something.

---

I wonder if they heard people cry about P3S being too difficult and tuned it down. I think that min ilvl guys shouldn't be skipping mechs. I skipped Black Cat's final mech on my first clear with min ilvl, and I think that DPS check should have been way tighter, we shouldn't be skipping mechs on our first week.

Bite bait for funsies
First tier was always easier to "let people get accustomed to new rotations and job change".

Asphodelos was cleared in ~12 hours.
Eden's Gate in ~12 hours.
Deltascape ~14 hours.

The world race community is also getting better, if Deltascape was released today it would've been destroyed.
We also need to take in account that the clear time gets exponentially longer the longer it is due to breaks.

Everything is faster without showers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CKNovel

First tier was always easier to "let people get accustomed to new rotations and job change".

---

Job hardly changed at all since Endwalker.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CKNovel

Asphodelos was cleared in ~12 hours.
Eden's Gate in ~12 hours.
Deltascape ~14 hours.

The world race community is also getting better, if Deltascape was released today it would've been destroyed.

---

The issue with the ''they got better'' argument is that for it to work with those time jump we just need to assume they didn't improve at all during all the past xpac. Last time we had a jump that big in clear time was when they made it so skill cd auto refresh after a wipe.

Like people have said, The issue is a mix of ''mechanic are slightly easier and slightly less punishing'' and ''Hp and damage from player are overtuned rn'' and also, you know, PCT being strong enough to push a double caster meta where you don't bring the 2 rez boi.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CKNovel

Bite bait for funsies
First tier was always easier to "let people get accustomed to new rotations and job change".

Asphodelos was cleared in ~12 hours.
Eden's Gate in ~12 hours.
Deltascape ~14 hours.

The world race community is also getting better, if Deltascape was released today it would've been destroyed.
We also need to take in account that the clear time gets exponentially longer the longer it is due to breaks.

---

It's amusing that somehow, nobody mentions Gordias in any of these conversations about "First tier" difficulty. Almost as if this game didn't always need to be baby's first MMO, and actually used to have some teeth.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Isala

It's amusing that somehow, nobody mentions Gordias in any of these conversations about "First tier" difficulty. Almost as if this game didn't always need to be baby's first MMO, and actually used to have some teeth.

---

I thought the HW savage difficulty killed statics rofl. There was also a LOT of jank back then, and I think the Ultimate difficulty was brought for people who wanted something more difficult a la HW?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Volgia

I thought the HW savage difficulty killed statics rofl. There was also a LOT of jank back then, and I think the Ultimate difficulty was brought for people who wanted something more difficult a la HW?

---

Oh, it filtered quite a few people, which makes me sad that we didn't keep that level of difficulty. We were literally asking for a "Savage" difficulty, and SE delivered. I know my static enjoyed slamming into the Pepsi Man wall, with Hands of Pain. Shame it got neutered because people couldn't accept that the mode called "Savage" required skill.