Even our content creators cannot pretend to like the trashy writings of Dawntrail.

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Originally Posted by White_Devil

We really shouldn't be taking the words of ecelebrities as gospel because our talking heads are fundamentally unreliable compared to forming our own opinions as individuals.

Zepla's been punching down on Endwalker because at the time everyone was making 'I QUIT' videos left and right and it seemed like the hot new thing to get in on, she's also been trying to imitate Asmongold since he pretty much dipped out when people wouldn't let him do his own thing.
As another example, Arthars doesn't give a damn about FFXIV's story or anything outside the realm of hardcore content, yet he's going on twitter and defending DT MSQ because everyone else is saying it's bad.
We have a grifter through and through weighing his opinion on DT MSQ and qqing about it being 'woke' despite the fact that he doesn't play.

All of these people care only about your clicks, they want a good harvest for their engagement farm.

Don't like or hate something because someone else said it was good/bad, that just makes you miserable.

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I absolutely am not. I am crestfallen with DT's MSQ.

My point is - people watching will. Look at what Asom did for the popularity of the game, it was the single biggest influx in the playerbase that has ever occurred. Some of that can be COVID related, but he had a genuine impact. Whether you like it or not, these voices matter, regardless of whether they should.

DT has just given content creators reams of ammunition to meme and cut down the game... Because it's partly deserved. I'm hoping DT will be Stormblood 2.0, where the MSQ didn't set the world on fire but the volume and quality of post-launch content will be the defining measure of the expansion, and I sort of believe it will, but right now we have the MSQ, the jobs, and the battle content as the primary levers to measure the game from - two of those really have been letdowns.

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Originally Posted by ZavosEsperian

Yoshi-P himself thanked Zepla for her video that was critical of Endwalker at the media tour which was specifically targeting the lack of content within Endwalker's patch content. It is clear she has more clout with the developers do than you do defending their honor on the forums.

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Every time she and her community repeat this they conveniently leave out that they asked her to try to be better about her phrasing. I watched her play yesterday and she was dipping back into some really harsh phrasing again so I guess she forgot that part.
Also, I think YoshiP is a very nice person and a good manager. Managers are taught to give praise before delivering a negative or harsh critique. She doesn't understand that his real message was "We found your messaging to be too harsh and not well articulated. We would appreciate critiques to be done in a more respectful manner."

I can say that Zepla got me into this game by saying the community was nothing like WoW's etc, but then as soon as she got the attention of Preach, Asmongold, etc she suddenly did a 180. I'm sure other life events added to that, but she comes off as hypocritical to a lot of people now. I don't even have a problem with Preach or Asmongold because at least they are consistent.

And for those who think LlamaTodd is Mr Positive while Asmongold is some evil entity? LlamaTodd has been trying to kiss up to OTK and loves Tektone who does a podcast with Asmon. Tektone is always involved in drama of some sort.

The writing in dawntrail was good. I get the feeling people who didn't like it can only appreciate the parts of literature when things are coming to a climax. world-building, character development over time, these things are still good parts of stories.

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Originally Posted by Gortys

Every time she and her community repeat this they conveniently leave out that they asked her to try to be better about her phrasing. I watched her play yesterday and she was dipping back into some really harsh phrasing again so I guess she forgot that part.
Also, I think YoshiP is a very nice person and a good manager. Managers are taught to give praise before delivering a negative or harsh critique. She doesn't understand that his real message was "We found your messaging to be too harsh and not well articulated. We would appreciate critiques to be done in a more respectful manner."

I can say that Zepla got me into this game by saying the community was nothing like WoW's etc, but then as soon as she got the attention of Preach, Asmongold, etc she suddenly did a 180. I'm sure other life events added to that, but she comes off as hypocritical to a lot of people now. I don't even have a problem with Preach or Asmongold because at least they are consistent.

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Why should we respect FF14 when FF14 disrespects everyone's intelligence by giving us a Teletubbies-tier story with braindead jobs that a toddler can execute? And all the lies from Yoshi P over the years? Lol?

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Originally Posted by Creampi

Zepla:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2192405696?t=6h49m14s

https://imgur.com/a/1XYpgyo

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I mean, it's a mixed bag, like with everyone else. Shenpai for example finished it and loved it, but that doesn't re-affirm your bias, so you're not gonna mention that.

No doubt Zepla hates it so far though lol

Not to defend her as a person or content creator and I don't want to get into this argument, but her "negativity" towards the game, specially the MSQ, makes a lot of sense and it IS consistent. What flipped her opinion on the game were the EW patches, which, so far in regards to the story, is very much similar to Dawntrail - afaik one of the two main writers responsible for Dawntrail actually wrote the patches as well. The story shows many of the same flaws from those. That just means it didn't improve from before, just got worse.

No matter what you think of her as a content creator, or if you agree with her opinions or not, content creators have a lot of attention from devs, and also reflect the opinion of a lot of people - people who watch her like her because they either trust her opinion, or think similarly to her.

I find it weird how people can't really see that a lot of what made the community a positive, non-toxic one, was their shared love for the game and how good it always used to be. The more everyone is unhappy with what they get, the less this is likely to hold up as before, and trying to force everyone to be fake-positive while the game isn't what they expected isn't going to work. Being upset is a natural, human reaction, and so far it isn't nearly as bad as WoW or other games at its worst.

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Originally Posted by AnotherHighlander

Why should we respect FF14 when FF14 disrespects everyone's intelligence by giving us a Teletubbies-tier story with braindead jobs that a toddler can execute? And all the lies from Yoshi P over the years? Lol?

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Is your reading comprehension this bad? Where in talking about Zepla and other creators did I say anything about this expansion and my opinion of said expansion? We are discussing content creators. There are other threads where players complain (including myself) about the MSQ.

Even if you hate Zepla, now that more content creators are starting to play I'm sure we'll see more types of reaction. Preach has begun and he's slowly starting to feel annoyed as well. He barely got into the pelupelu quest line and was already saying that he noticed a trend of bringing the scions with you somewhere, having them contribute nothing and then going somewhere else and repeat.

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Originally Posted by Gortys

Is your reading comprehension this bad? Where in talking about Zepla and other creators did I say anything about this expansion and my opinion of said expansion? We are discussing content creators. There are other threads where where players complain (including myself) about the MSQ.

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Originally Posted by Gortys

Managers are taught to give praise before delivering a negative or harsh critique. She doesn't understand that his real message was "We found your messaging to be too harsh and not well articulated. We would appreciate critiques to be done in a more respectful manner."

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I thought you are supposed to give praise before delivering a harsh critique on me. Let me rephrase what you said for you.

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Originally Posted by Gortys

BTW, Highlander, you are so sexy and handsome. I love your muscular physique and your avant garde styling choice of shaving off your eyebrows. Quite daring really! Also, your manly, sexy deep voice is just so... intoxicating! I love it! There's just one little problem I have, you see... I'm just wondering if you could go back and re-read what I said... I'm not criticizing your reading comprehension! Definitely not! I just thought maybe my point got lost in translation, or some other such issue and perhaps we can find a common ground... and yeah you're so sexy and handsome hahaha, I love your handsome smile

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Originally Posted by HighlanderClone

I thought you are supposed to give praise before delivering a harsh critique on me. Let me rephrase what you said for you.

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I'm not a manager. ;) But honestly, what you wrote is what a manager, like YoshiP, would write. Not all of us, including Zepla, are managers.

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Originally Posted by Gortys

Every time she and her community repeat this they conveniently leave out that they asked her to try to be better about her phrasing. I watched her play yesterday and she was dipping back into some really harsh phrasing again so I guess she forgot that part.

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Originally Posted by Gortys

Not all of us, including Zepla, are managers.

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khttp://10char.png

How mads that?

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Originally Posted by Gortys

Every time she and her community repeat this they conveniently leave out that they asked her to try to be better about her phrasing. I watched her play yesterday and she was dipping back into some really harsh phrasing again so I guess she forgot that part.
Also, I think YoshiP is a very nice person and a good manager. Managers are taught to give praise before delivering a negative or harsh critique. She doesn't understand that his real message was "We found your messaging to be too harsh and not well articulated. We would appreciate critiques to be done in a more respectful manner."

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I am going to assume when you say "harsh phrasing" you mean critical of the game. I have seen and heard many people go off about how bad DT is and based on what she was saying yesterday (I did catch some of it, but not much) she was rather tame with her criticisms compared to what I have seen elsewhere.

Brutal honesty tends to illustrate a point better than treating them with kid gloves in the world of content creation. People may view Zepla as inconsistent, especially where FFXIV is concerned, but I would argue there has been a shift in the overall quality with the game itself starting in EW. As such, the game changed first so it isn't a surprise that Zepla herself changed in attitude. And her sentiment is echoed throughout the forums as of late, particularly with the MSQ.

I admittedly feel for her a bit, as the game that started her career, let alone loved, has slowly withered and rotted into the state that it is now in. It is rather sad to see her have to come to terms with that while others would gladly consume the rotting game, oblivious (or perhaps aware) to it rotting, and saying "Everything is fine it is you who is wrong!" I have been around a long time myself and I can understand why she says "The game is unrecognizable."

But you do you. You can praise and consume a game that is rotting from the inside out if you want to, just don't be surprised if people come after you for consuming something that is rotting.

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Originally Posted by Ritsugamesh

I absolutely am not. I am crestfallen with DT's MSQ.

My point is - people watching will. Look at what Asom did for the popularity of the game, it was the single biggest influx in the playerbase that has ever occurred. Some of that can be COVID related, but he had a genuine impact. Whether you like it or not, these voices matter, regardless of whether they should.

DT has just given content creators reams of ammunition to meme and cut down the game... Because it's partly deserved. I'm hoping DT will be Stormblood 2.0, where the MSQ didn't set the world on fire but the volume and quality of post-launch content will be the defining measure of the expansion, and I sort of believe it will, but right now we have the MSQ, the jobs, and the battle content as the primary levers to measure the game from - two of those really have been letdowns.

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Not disagreeing with you, I'm hoping the same too, fingers crossed for Arcadion and and the eventual Futures Rewritten raid, maybe it'll be a step towards balancing everything out.

I just can't help but feel like some of these voices are disingenuous, but as the bald man says, it is what it is.

Loved Stormblood though.

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Originally Posted by Zolvolt

The writing in dawntrail was good. I get the feeling people who didn't like it can only appreciate the parts of literature when things are coming to a climax. world-building, character development over time, these things are still good parts of stories.

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That's just blatantly untrue. I enjoy ARR, it's got nice low stakes with a ton of worldbuilding. I hate DT with a passion. DT wishes it could be ARR. DT doesn't do actual worldbuilding, it just shallowly stereotypes tribes. It doesn't setup plot threads like ARR did so there's no way for this to be the start of a new major arc. By the time you were level 15 in ARR, you had established plot threads for one of the major city states and the ascians. By the end of DT the only new plot threads are some upset animals, a MacGuffin, and some minor political intrigue that will be solved in one patch.

The issue with DT is not that it's low stakes, because it's not. It's not that it spends all its time worldbuilding, because it doesn't. The issue is that it's boring bad writing.

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Originally Posted by Gyson

So.. I could only force myself to watch a few minutes of that clip, and honestly I have no idea why she was reacting the way she did. It was as if she was looking for reasons to be offended every other moment.

Sorry if I'm missing the point, but is that usually the way her content is? I tend to play the game rather than watch others play it, so I guess I'm lacking context. Is it a FFXIV hater's club or something?

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Her job is literally to get people talking about her and the games shes talking about even if that means complaining about the game, while I have my issues with WL I think the games fine but take that with a pinch of salt like you should anyones opinions, streamer or not.

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

People criticizing zepla for her takes on the msq are the exact same people who agreed with her when she praised the game
ya'll only like them when they have the "good think"

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Nope, I don't watch streamers, I'd rather play the game myself and form my own opinions, not everyone cares about content creators like they dont care for us or you, only your money and views which generate them money. *shrugs*

She's right though. The writing in DT is contrived and *ridiculously* padded/bloated.

Zepla is hardly alone in her criticism of the story, with the most recent example being Preach also calling the nonsense out as he plays through the MSQ:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2193053068?t=1h45m1s

It's hard to disagree with either of them tbh.

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Originally Posted by Dranni

Zepla is hardly alone in her criticism of the story, with the most recent example being Preach also calling the nonsense out as he plays through the MSQ:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2193053068?t=1h45m1s

It's hard to disagree with either of them tbh.

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It looks like... Preach has become a toxic personality.

(Yes, massive /s)

Maybe I just don't get it, but why do I need a content creator's opinion about how good or bad the game is? Can't I just form my own opinion? Can we start over; what do YOU think about DawnTrail?

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Originally Posted by ZavosEsperian

I am going to assume when you say "harsh phrasing" you mean critical of the game. I have seen and heard many people go off about how bad DT is and based on what she was saying yesterday (I did catch some of it, but not much) she was rather tame with her criticisms compared to what I have seen elsewhere.

Brutal honesty tends to illustrate a point better than treating them with kid gloves in the world of content creation. People may view Zepla as inconsistent, especially where FFXIV is concerned, but I would argue there has been a shift in the overall quality with the game itself starting in EW. As such, the game changed first so it isn't a surprise that Zepla herself changed in attitude. And her sentiment is echoed throughout the forums as of late, particularly with the MSQ.

I admittedly feel for her a bit, as the game that started her career, let alone loved, has slowly withered and rotted into the state that it is now in. It is rather sad to see her have to come to terms with that while others would gladly consume the rotting game, oblivious (or perhaps aware) to it rotting, and saying "Everything is fine it is you who is wrong!" I have been around a long time myself and I can understand why she says "The game is unrecognizable."

But you do you. You can praise and consume a game that is rotting from the inside out if you want to, just don't be surprised if people come after you for consuming something that is rotting.

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If you want to assume that "harsh phrasing" means being critical, then that is on you. In fact, you make a LOT of assumptions here. We are discussing content creators and not reviewing the game, but you are mixing the 2. It is easy to do when one gets their feelings involved obviously.

I didn't watch her VoD and only caught the middle to the end of her stream. She was really holding it together even though obviously uncomfortable. I had to "self-correct" and remind myself that we unexpectedly fought Zodiark at lvl 83 last expansion. But the fact that I could predict this isn't necessarily good either.

Zepla got me into the game and I think she really wants to be on par with someone like Preach more than Asmongold. The difference is Preach actually employs people to help him and some of that is writing. I don't know if she does the same, but I get the impression she tries to do it all herself.

Essentially all critiques are not equal. Brutal honesty at the moment is noticed more easily for sure, but often it is just as easily discarded by others whether positive or negative. And calling something "garbage" as Asmon and others may do isn't as helpful as some of the more lengthy and thoughtful posts on this forum - such as HighlanderClone's.

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Originally Posted by Ishe-P

Maybe I just don't get it, but why do I need a content creator's opinion about how good or bad the game is? Can't I just form my own opinion? Can we start over; what do YOU think about DawnTrail?

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You can do what you want.

It's just fact though that content creators generally have more direct visibility with the devs. Yoshida pretty much evidenced this by the fact he was able to cite a few occasions on-steam.

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Originally Posted by Ishe-P

Maybe I just don't get it, but why do I need a content creator's opinion about how good or bad the game is? Can't I just form my own opinion? Can we start over; what do YOU think about DawnTrail?

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They need to feel validated, thats quite literally it.

More context, if a content creator feels the same as they do about certain parts of the game that makes them feel validated and that their opinion because its backed by said content creators is worth more than anyone elses, when at the end of the day it's still an opinion.

From constantly gaslighting that all criticism is just a hate circlejerk in a dark forum corner, to then "OOOH LOOOK AT LITTLE BOY NEEDING VALIDATION" when shown that's not the case.

Straight up middle school bully mentality.

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Originally Posted by Zolvolt

The writing in dawntrail was good. I get the feeling people who didn't like it can only appreciate the parts of literature when things are coming to a climax. world-building, character development over time, these things are still good parts of stories.

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I have been playing the game since ARR. I will not sugarcoat the fact that, yes, ARR had/has pacing problems, but it had the tough job of trying to lure back in 1.0 players while communicating a lot of world-building material to new players coming into the game in 2.0. Barring the Titan quest chain before it was changed, ARR did a lot of good world building and I did not mind said world building due to the manner in which it was done, which was showing NOT telling. I never had the urge to drop the game while playing ARR.

DT is the first expansion in which I am questioning my subscription to the game. The MSQ has some if not all of ARR's pacing problems but it feels considerably worse because a lot of the plot is predicable coupled with the writing telling you things without showing them in practice. In addition, you are stuck with one of the most insufferable characters introduced into the game since its inception.

I do not know when you started the game, so it is hard for me to potentially see the good in the story of DT that you do. You are allowed to like what you like, but just understand the script you like deserves to be in a landfill somewhere, rotting away with all the rest of the garbage/waste of the world, instead of being inside of a video game. Alternatively, it could be used as tissue paper should you want it to be actually useful to someone.

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

They need to feel validated, thats quite literally it.

More context, if a content creator feels the same as they do about certain parts of the game that makes them feel validated and that their opinion because its backed by said content creators is worth more than anyone elses, when at the end of the day it's still an opinion.

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It's not about validation, it's about reach. Forum posts giving an opinion are a dime a dozen, but the most popular FFXIV content creators have megaphones that Yoshida and the dev team cannot ignore quite as easily.

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Originally Posted by Kaecilius

It's not about validation, it's about reach. Forum posts giving an opinion are a dime a dozen, but the most popular FFXIV content creators have megaphones that Yoshida and the dev team cannot ignore quite as easily.

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I still don't understand why anyone even a Dev would care what a content creator has to say or deem that their opinions hold more sway than those of the playerbase or their own team, maybe its just me but I don't understand it.

How it looks to me, and I am not a people person people genuinely frighten me with all those emotions and things but it basically looks to me as if guy says something is shit goes searching for someone to agree with him just so he can say im right your wrong and invalidates anyone elses opinion soley on that.

I thought the devs claimed to read the forums as well?
I think the fact that there are very well articulated complaints in this forum and even on Steam is going to carry a lot of weight with the dev team.

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

I still don't understand why anyone even a Dev would care what a content creator has to say or deem that their opinions hold more sway than those of the playerbase or their own team, maybe its just me but I don't understand it.

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Doesn't matter if you understand it or not. The only thing that matters is that the devs and Yoshi P DO care. You don't have to like it. Other people don't have to like it. We could all collectively sit here scratching our heads in confusion and absolutely hating it... Doesn't change the truth of the matter.

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

I still don't understand why anyone even a Dev would care what a content creator has to say or deem that their opinions hold more sway than those of the playerbase or their own team, maybe its just me but I don't understand it.

How it looks to me, and I am not a people person people genuinely frighten me with all those emotions and things but it basically looks to me as if guy says something is shit goes searching for someone to agree with him just so he can say im right your wrong and invalidates anyone elses opinion soley on that.

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The answer to that is literally in this very thread, with people talking about how Content Creators have sway over their audience. When the biggest XIV creator starts saying negative things about your game, despite the amount of people going "I'm a free thinker, and won't let their opinion affect me!", there's a major chunk of people who either share that opinion already, are on the fence, able to be swayed, or will just agree with everything their "queen" says about the game. So when content creators start slamming your game in public, you NEED to listen. Because now it's someone with an impressionable audience spreading opinions about your game.

zepla continues to be BASED

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Originally Posted by Isala

The answer to that is literally in this very thread, with people talking about how Content Creators have sway over their audience. When the biggest XIV creator starts saying negative things about your game, despite the amount of people going "I'm a free thinker, and won't let their opinion affect me!", there's a major chunk of people who either share that opinion already, are on the fence, able to be swayed, or will just agree with everything their "queen" says about the game. So when content creators start slamming your game in public, you NEED to listen. Because now it's someone with an impressionable audience spreading opinions about your game.

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I mean, you don't have to look any further than a lot of the battle design we've seen in DT for proof they're listening to the feedback. Smaller hitboxes are back, dungeon and overall fight design are more creative than they've been in years and years. The main thing content creators and the community as a whole complained about in Endwalker aside from the content drought, was the fight design. So I'd actually be surprised if the story didn't see improvements in the future after all the complaints about it.

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Originally Posted by Gortys

I thought the devs claimed to read the forums as well?
I think the fact that there are very well articulated complaints in this forum and even on Steam is going to carry a lot of weight with the dev team.

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Well yes, but actually no. In all likelihood YoshiP and other devs don't have the time to sit down and read the forums themselves. Especially the English forums. So they probably have a community team member that "reads"(skims is more likely) the forums and then gives them a summary.

The problem with this method is that it's only as reliable as your community team. Community teams in NA tend to attract Twittervists. So, look at how the game is being received on X and you'll likely find out what the devs are hearing about the forums.

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Originally Posted by Dranni

Zepla is hardly alone in her criticism of the story, with the most recent example being Preach also calling the nonsense out as he plays through the MSQ:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2193053068?t=1h45m1s

It's hard to disagree with either of them tbh.

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Preach has come up as one of the most positive and based content creators that engage with FFXIV. He's been nothing but respectful, created one of the best synopsis on EW as a holistic expansion, and has tons (literally years and years) of analysing and assessing MMOs of all stripes. He fell in love with FFXIV, I've watched his journey, and he has showered praise for the MSQ in particular. When he's giving the same energy as Zepla is there is a serious problem.

I'm very interested in the responses from the Grinding Gear guys as they seem to be their own version of a two-headed Mamool Ja. Kyle tends to be the voice of reason, tries to be positive, and expresses more about why writing directions may take certain turns. Garrett is the pure fanboy who doesn't mind making his like/dislike of plot elements or game play styles known. I don't always agree with Garrett, but I feel he does a very good job at articulating in a moment why he dislikes something without reducing it to "this is garbage".

Awww shucks guess ill never be one of the forum cool kids *genuinely disappointed*.

I always struggle to connect with people as I tend to speak too plainly.

Holy crap, I've been accused of gaslighting people on this forum so i looked it up as its not my native, I need to start my villain arc if im this good.

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verb: gas-light

manipulate (someone) using psychological methods into questioning their own sanity or powers of reasoning.
"in the first episode, Karen Valentine is being gaslighted by her husband"

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For me to be making people question their own sanity through responses on a forumboard fml, im good...

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Originally Posted by Elissar

She started doing it in Endwalker and she does it in every game now.

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If I'm not wrong, she only complained about EW patches... which a lot of us did. Maybe, just maybe, it's just her own honest opinion that a lot of people share. I mean, I barely watch any english stream (I mean I know what Zepla and Xeno look like, I've heard of Mrhappy, but I have no fucking clue who the other on the graph shared earlier are), but to me, the few time I watch her, she is still trying to be apologetic of the game most of the time. It has to be really far gone for her to be negative about it. Honestly I'm just glad there are some content creators to voice those problems that were big enough to unite everyone but Twitter.

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Originally Posted by angienessyo

I mean, you don't have to look any further than a lot of the battle design we've seen in DT for proof they're listening to the feedback. Smaller hitboxes are back, dungeon and overall fight design are more creative than they've been in years and years. The main thing content creators and the community as a whole complained about in Endwalker aside from the content drought, was the fight design. So I'd actually be surprised if the story didn't see improvements in the future after all the complaints about it.

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This.
The developpers are listening to feedback so I also believe they will adjust the writing of the MSQ down the line. After all, it is one (if not THE) selling aspect of the game when people recommend this game to their friends in a lot of the cases.

There's also the fact that content creators tend to have a vested interest in keeping a positive opinion of their main source of content. There are very few streamers these days who thrive on negativity - Practically none that basically only play a single game for views. It just doesn't last.

The idea that a streamer whose career is built on FF14 is "grifting" by faking negativity for clicks is frankly ludicrous. They have so much more reason to want the game to stay good and popular than you or me.

If there's any more streamers who hate it, link here. I had a hobby of watching random streamers cry to Shadowbringer and Endwalker. Thanks to Zepla I now want to make it a hobby of hearing people rant about Dawntrail.