Gil is worthless.

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

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I already have to pay real money to keep my house and you want me to pay gil per month for it too? I'm not interested in paying 2 virtual mortgages.

I can’t believe op compared what is an in game token to real world money that is needed to fill essential needs…

I find that atm gils are well balanced and the cap is decent. Some people just want to play the story and raid. A new player who starts today and is interested in raiding will likely need the help of friends to get the new DT crafted sets, food and pots. To even get there in time for the first raids they will also have to play every day. Make it more difficult to earn gil and it will only encourage rmt. Most people have limited time to play games.

Oh and op doesn’t have to find 300 ppl to donate 1 million at a time. If it’s so worthless, buy the rarer mounts at about 50mils each, give out 6 of them to random sprouts and the 300m will be gone in less than 5 minutes lol they can then keep the mount or sell it

Instead of complaining, Op should count themselves lucky they have enough gils to buy the next rare thing as soon as it’s added to a vendor or hits the MB.

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Originally Posted by SigmarrIrenesch

"This in-game currency is worthless, I do absolutely nothing with it."
"Then give it away to someone."
"Don't be stupid, do you know how much it is worth?!"

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"I have a lot of gil and nothing to spend it on so it feels worthless. I want it to be worth something."
"Give it to me for free then."
"No, I want it to be worth something."

No logical inconsistency. You're just reading OP in bad faith for Twitter Dunk Points.

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Originally Posted by vetch

"I have a lot of gil and nothing to spend it on so it feels worthless. I want it to be worth something."
"Give it to me for free then."
"No, I want it to be worth something."

No logical inconsistency. You're just reading OP in bad faith for Twitter Dunk Points.

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Not really people are pointing out how op is saying how gil is worthless then back peddling saying it's worth something after people pointed out how their ideas will cause hyperinflation. And the people asking for gil are only saying that considering they made claims gil was worthless and if it was worthless then why not hand out gil only for them to say it's worth too much in value irl and in game. I don't think anyone was serious about asking for gil either and only making a point that the op made of it being "so worthless".

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Originally Posted by Nebelheim

Not really people are pointing out how op is saying how gil is worthless then back peddling saying it's worth something after people pointed out how their ideas will cause hyperinflation. And the people asking for gil are only saying that considering they made claims gil was worthless and if it was worthless then why not hand out gil only for them to say it's worth too much in value irl and in game. I don't think anyone was serious about asking for gil either and only making a point that the op made of it being "so worthless".

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The only place OP fucked up was using hyperbole in the title, because there have been people who reply after reading only the title since the internet's infancy. The actual body of the post supports my interpretation.

Inflation is caused when more money is added into a system than is taken back out, and that's exactly what happens in FF14 because the new money being created (e.g. from daily roulettes) far outpaces the small expenses like repairs, market taxes, and teleports.

OP is suggesting adding more trade goods people will want to buy, which is a mildly deflationary measure because the marketboard will extract additional taxes as players trade them -- though I assume he wants them added so he can enjoy spending his money on things he feels are 'worthwhile' rather than because he's ideologically committed to deflation.

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Originally Posted by vetch

The only place OP fucked up was using hyperbole in the title, because there have been people who reply after reading only the title since the internet's infancy. The actual body of the post supports my interpretation.

Inflation is caused when more money is added into a system than is taken back out, and that's exactly what happens in FF14 because the new money being created (e.g. from daily roulettes) far outpaces the small expenses like repairs, market taxes, and teleports.

OP is suggesting adding more trade goods people will want to buy, which is a mildly deflationary measure because the marketboard will extract additional taxes as players trade them -- though I assume he wants them added so he can enjoy spending his money on things he feels are 'worthwhile' rather than because he's ideologically committed to deflation.

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There isn't inflation, at least not noticeable save on very rare items from content from past expansions that pretty much nobody does. The cap on gils as well as events when you can get rare stuff for little efforts (flood the market with items that were previously rare) takes care of that. Heck my collection of fats cats have gone down from 600k to 30k each...we saw it for other items - the Island and the Seacloth was brutal - and we're about to see the same thing with the Gabriel mount.

We need a gil cap mount and it better be ugly

300mil gil huh… gil is worthless huh…
You wanna donate to me? x)

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Originally Posted by Cynric

I already have to pay real money to keep my house and you want me to pay gil per month for it too? I'm not interested in paying 2 virtual mortgages.

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You are already doing it. If you do not pay your sub you will lose your in Game House at some point.

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Originally Posted by missTori

You know what else is worthless? Me

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You are not worthless by any stretch. Please know that you are a valued member of the community.

I dont know if there really is a good solution to that. Im also not sure how widespread of a problem it actually is. I know a few people who have that much, but i personally have never had more than 80 mil at one time and most of my more casually playing friends have far less.

I played WoW when it had ammo costs for ranged weapons and it absolutely sucked. And would suck to implement this far into the game. Charging a tax on houses would be insult to injury on a system that already requires you to stay subbed and spend real money monthly to keep it. I cant see SE making savage gear sellable when that would make it possible for someone to get that gear without ever actually stepping foot in savage, and any limits to prevent that... im not sure would add much beenfit? In general? Raising teleport or repair costs would impact new players more than old ones, and so would any similar change. So... eh?

Tldr this isnt a problem for me and any "solution" would probably be annoying to me.

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

why does money in the real world need to have value.

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It doesn't need to have value, and there are several cases from history where hyperinflation made money literally worth less than the paper it was printed on.

But gil in FFXIV is not worthless. There are many things one can buy with gil. Useful things.
However, gil is not important in FFXIV. It is easy to get enough gil to pay for everything you need, that can be bought with gil. Not so easy to buy everything you may want, but a lot of the things you can buy can be considered mere luxury items that may be nice to have but that in no way are necessary.

Also, gil isn't the only currency in FFXIV, though it is the main currency that can be used for trading between players.
The important currencies are tomestones, and to a lesser extent company seals and the various hunt rewards.

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

this complaint is nothing new, but neither has anything been done about it. were still 3 years on from the first set of gil sinks and people have nothing to spend there money on. i have now accumulated 300Mil, but for all the worth it has, it might as well be 300gil.

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The reason it's worthless is because RMT exists. If you let players trade everything (most green gear is bind-upon-pickup, pretty much) the price inflation just escalates until the server can't deal with the numbers, and players have to resort to bartering items-for-items.

In an ideal situation, the game wouldn't have 60 different currencies. All the tokens we get from raids would not exist, the only the gear would be dropped and the dropped gear would be sold on the marketboard. But then people would never be able to obtain 90% of the gear because it comes from too-difficult-of-a-raid, and likewise can't equip stuff because of the level locks. Basically the way things work now isn't perfect, but it ensures that people have to play the raids to get the gear rather than buy it without playing it.

The worst aspects of earlier MMORPG's were always around obtaining money in the game when the game generates infinite money.

How MMORPG's "should" work, and how they "can only work" are pretty far apart.

For example, all the stuff people throw on the marketboard that are just regular monster drops. Well if you fight 100 monsters to get 100 of an item, you should get 100 items, not have it be a random drop that results in you having to fight 500 monsters. When you sell things you should be able to sell it on the market board for the price you want, or NPC it at the "present" marketboard price. Likewise NPC's should 'run out' of items if no players are selling to NPC's, and adjust their prices based on number of items remaining in the global NPC inventory. Thus ensuring that players can have something to "sink" gil into.

However MMORPG's can't work that way because players will collude and buy all the NPC inventories of items needed to craft. Thus ensuring an escalation of RMT activities.

The flip side of this is the game can't make all the mounts and fashion accessories in the game cash shop only, without having to be non-tradeables. Because if you allow people to sell cash shop items to other players, you create a back door RMT market. Ideally everything in the game should be always be found "in the game" without the cash shop. If something is an a seasonal event, then yes, that can go be in the cash shop afterwords. But those events should come back annually otherwise people get FOMO and if the items were tradeable people would hoard seasonal event items.

The problem with currencies in this game is that it's overtly complicated. "gil" is for things involving NPC's, and trash items you pick up to sell, thus crafters basically get all this stuff for next to nothing, and make a lot of money selling things that almost nobody actually "needs" since the NPC shops have the same items. If there existed a mechanism that the NPC shops selling gear actually "bought" it off players on the NPC board if it's cheaper than their own price, that would make the economy function better.

But it's far too late in the game's life to refactor gil. They would have to do what they do with tomes and require exchanging gil for new gil every expansion pack to correct for inflation, and that would result in people getting mad that their money has been devalued.

I renew my petition for a new in-game title, bought from Rowena:

Title: Former Gillionaire
Cost: 999,999,999 gil

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Originally Posted by Toutatis

There isn't inflation, at least not noticeable save on very rare items from content from past expansions that pretty much nobody does. The cap on gils as well as events when you can get rare stuff for little efforts (flood the market with items that were previously rare) takes care of that. Heck my collection of fats cats have gone down from 600k to 30k each...we saw it for other items - the Island and the Seacloth was brutal - and we're about to see the same thing with the Gabriel mount.

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That's true for the specific rare items that they add to the events (or to quick ventures) but there's noticeable inflation in other areas, like gear for alt jobs or interior furnishings even when they're given away for free en masse. It's not unusual for Fine Wax to sell for over 10k or a set of 70+ leveling gear for a popular job over 200k and you wouldn't say that no one does Haukke Manor or the MSQ. And of course, it's also in niches of the glamour market that aren't being supplied by Square. Even crafted glams from extremely cheap materials have been a good and consistent source of profit, which feels nice for me but probably not for some sprout who wants a simple eyepatch and must pay 70-100k for something that cost me 2k to assemble.

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

this complaint is nothing new, but neither has anything been done about it. were still 3 years on from the first set of gil sinks and people have nothing to spend there money on. i have now accumulated 300Mil, but for all the worth it has, it might as well be 300gil.

and i know i will get the comments "give it to me then" for what? so u can buy everything too then wind up with the exact same problem? what will you do then? horde it untill you need 10 retainers to hold all your cash

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There are plenty of players who don't have enough gil to buy the things they want; because of that, the gil that you claim is worthless literally has the power to make someone's day.

So give it away, whether all at once or little by little. Then you can enjoy the experience of giving another person unexpected delight. I honestly can't think of a better way to spend your cash if you genuinely feel like there's nothing else for you to do with it.

There's only one MMO I've played with a functioning economy and it's a TOTALLY different kind of game. If you want to experience a real economy in game and all the lifelike problems it introduces, go play EVE Online. Once in-game money is hard to come by you'll get all the degeneracy of mankind coming to your favorite game. I would much rather have venues and ERP than real-world psy ops, cartels, scams, etc.

If you have 300mil, have bought all the registerables you can, have all your artifacts and relics maxed out, congrats you've won the game. Take your victory lap and wait for the next level you can also conquer.

Also, I have 200mil, but your 300mil would give me a nice even 500mil, which would be pretty cool, so... can I have your gil? :D

A wild thread to read through. OP's main point seems to be "I'm upset that there's aren't more ways to show off that I have more money than other players", followed by an argument for why we need to introduce capitalism as the game's primary economic structure. As if that's working out so well for everyone in the real world.

The thing is, there are plenty of ways to get rid of gil if you genuinely believe it has no real value. That includes value for the ego. You could buy expensive mounts for friends (or randos) and give them away. In fact, that would be a self-reinforcing solution to your problem, because by taking the supply of rare items, you'll drive up both the value and price, which theoretically improves your ability to get rid of gil. But as you've said in multiple responses, you don't want to do that. You're not looking for a way to simply get rid of gil; you're looking for more ways to spend gil on yourself. Those are two different goals there, Bezos.

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

according to some studies i found by ACTUAL economists, real money has its value because it has a level of trust in it, that we trust that with this token we can have the item we desire immediately, or even items we couldnt normally have at all.

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The fallacy in your comparison is that there are no true supply/demand constructs in the game like there are in the real world. In the real world, one person *can* have exclusive rights to a resource, thus generating both supply and demand. In the game, by contrast, anyone can access any resource with enough individual effort. Everyone can craft, everyone can gather, everyone can farm. The closest thing we have to "exclusive" rights are probably items that require crossbreeding in gardens or sub/airships, since that can only be done if you have a house (which are limited in supply).

And the whole "real money has its value because of the level of trust" is not an accurate explanation of that concept. The FORM OF CURRENCY has value because of the trust in its value. It's the reason I'll take a bill or coin from someone instead of their pig or goat. The pig has a value, and "level of trust" has to do more with "you said a pig = this much of your made-up currency".

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

currency servers important roles in locking the players put of certian content, making you NEEED to play the game, just like irl money locks you out of living on hawaii in a 5* appartment

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Capitalism and classism. That's what you're arguing for. "People should have barriers to entry based on their economic class." You're arguing for the game to be more about productivity than about fun. Instead of trying to ruin a venue of escapism for the rest of us by forcing a grind, maybe you can just log off and pick up an IRL side hustle that will scratch exactly the itch you're focused on.

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

There are plenty of players who don't have enough gil to buy the things they want; because of that, the gil that you claim is worthless literally has the power to make someone's day.

So give it away, whether all at once or little by little. Then you can enjoy the experience of giving another person unexpected delight. I honestly can't think of a better way to spend your cash if you genuinely feel like there's nothing else for you to do with it.

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That's what I tend to do with my gil, I bank it until I get to around 150-170 mil then buy something cool for my friends or FC members (recently bought someone a night pegasus for their birthday). It's nice to see Number Go Up of course, but it's there to be spent. And if I don't want to spend it on myself, there's always someone else that would be happy to get something fancy.

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Originally Posted by SilverObi

That's what I tend to do with my gil, I bank it until I get to around 150-170 mil then buy something cool for my friends or FC members (recently bought someone a night pegasus for their birthday). It's nice to see Number Go Up of course, but it's there to be spent. And if I don't want to spend it on myself, there's always someone else that would be happy to get something fancy.

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You’re so kind. I love that. Do you wanna make me happy? :3

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Originally Posted by Rikizza

You’re so kind. I love that. Do you wanna make me happy? :3

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https://media1.tenor.com/m/Ut7mO2jCy...ural-weird.gif

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

https://media1.tenor.com/m/Ut7mO2jCy...ural-weird.gif

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You’re the wierd one. I ment nothing wierd with that, i just want gil to buy a house c:

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Originally Posted by Sjol

There's only one MMO I've played with a functioning economy and it's a TOTALLY different kind of game. If you want to experience a real economy in game and all the lifelike problems it introduces, go play EVE Online. Once in-game money is hard to come by you'll get all the degeneracy of mankind coming to your favorite game. I would much rather have venues and ERP than real-world psy ops, cartels, scams, etc.

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Mao used to play Eves Online. Is THE most viscious hardcore PvP game Mao ever played. Getting caught in Null-sec between two gigantics war fleets NOT funs! Is fortunate for Mao that Mao was ables go stealth and drift through gate. Even after thats Mao had to run likes crazy to get backs to Hi-sec.

Gil is far from worthless, the only reason people may feel it is worthless is if they have experienced everything in the game.

There's a major problem with the op's post: he or she forgets that not all players have his or her seniority. I'd also remind you that giving your gils to someone new isn't forbidden: I have fond memories of games where some people waited for newcomers at the spam point to pass on their riches, which helped a lot at the start of the game.

That said, maintaining a viable economy in an mmorpg has always been a headache (especially since the arrival of our beloved goldfarmers, who are an interstellar nuisance). These are games that suffer from chronic inflation, as each player creates money from nowhere. From that point on I find the answers a bit hard on the op, in the sense that they point to a real problem with this type of game (a devilishly interesting problem, incidentally).

I don't agree with the proposed solutions, but I also think that ffxiv lacks the means to melt the money. Instantiated housing, perhaps? That could create a significant leak, while meeting frequent demand (yes, I pull the duvet on my side too, I admit :p ).

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Originally Posted by Eraden

Mao used to play Eves Online. Is THE most viscious hardcore PvP game Mao ever played. Getting caught in Null-sec between two gigantics war fleets NOT funs! Is fortunate for Mao that Mao was ables go stealth and drift through gate. Even after thats Mao had to run likes crazy to get backs to Hi-sec.

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Mao, you're like an onion. A cute, lizardy-onion. I didn't have Mao hanging in null-sec on my bingo card that's for sure.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

Mao, you're like an onion. A cute, lizardy-onion. I didn't have Mao hanging in null-sec on my bingo card that's for sure.

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Is where best minerals is. Is WAY too temptings for miners! Is why Mao favorites activity in FFXIV is gatherings. Mao just wishes new zones in FFXIV nots tied to MSQ. Mao likes go into dangerous places to do the minings.

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Originally Posted by Roda

Economies are fun to game when the system doesn't have the power to hurt people.

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True, but the FF14 economy has boundary conditions that prevent it from resembling a genuine market. For example, many crafted products cost a tiny fraction of the sum of the cost of the materials used to craft them. I suspect one reason is people craft to level, thus take a significant gil loss. There's no parallel in so-called real life.

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Originally Posted by Sjol

There's only one MMO I've played with a functioning economy and it's a TOTALLY different kind of game. If you want to experience a real economy in game and all the lifelike problems it introduces, go play EVE Online. Once in-game money is hard to come by you'll get all the degeneracy of mankind coming to your favorite game. I would much rather have venues and ERP than real-world psy ops, cartels, scams, etc.

If you have 300mil, have bought all the registerables you can, have all your artifacts and relics maxed out, congrats you've won the game. Take your victory lap and wait for the next level you can also conquer.

Also, I have 200mil, but your 300mil would give me a nice even 500mil, which would be pretty cool, so... can I have your gil? :D

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True, CCP's attempts to "fix" the economy (and the economic and thus everything-else power that vets had over rookies) via scarcity nearly buried the game. Not the most pleasant player base either.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

True, but the FF14 economy has boundary conditions that prevent it from resembling a genuine market. For example, many crafted products cost a tiny fraction of the sum of the cost of the materials used to craft them. I suspect one reason is people craft to level, thus take a significant gil loss. There's no parallel in so-called real life.

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My hobbyist friends would care to disagree. :D

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Originally Posted by Sjol

My hobbyist friends would care to disagree. :D

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Ha, I guess they're leveling their hobby.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

How MMORPG's "should" work, and how they "can only work" are pretty far apart.

For example, all the stuff people throw on the marketboard that are just regular monster drops. Well if you fight 100 monsters to get 100 of an item, you should get 100 items, not have it be a random drop that results in you having to fight 500 monsters. When you sell things you should be able to sell it on the market board for the price you want, or NPC it at the "present" marketboard price. Likewise NPC's should 'run out' of items if no players are selling to NPC's, and adjust their prices based on number of items remaining in the global NPC inventory.

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It works for osrs, or atleast the random drops. Personally I see nothing wrong with drops not being guaranteed.
Also in osrs the price of npc sold items goes up in npc shops if people purchase items from them. This can cause them to be out of stock and lower supplies do make items from item shops more expensive.Vice versa if you sell 10 items to an npc, they will pay less per item. So if the first one would be 50 gil, the 2nd would be 40 etc. You can also sell items for whatever price you want in both games, you just have a lower chance of someone purchasing said items.

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

perhaps a house should have rent/mortgages/land fees.

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why not add an HOA now that we are in that subject...dude we are paying RL just to keep the damn thing

OP, if you really want something to spend on just buy the new overpriced mounts and glamours when DT drops. I'm sure there's going to be something similar to the Fallen Angel's Wings going for 50m+ that'll take out a chunk for ya.

Or just give it away to sprouts and pay it back to the community you've been a part of. I'm sitting on 2-3x what you have and make that part of my routine because not only does it make me feel good, it also helps set someone else on their journey. I'm sure that's something worthwhile to use it on.

Or just dump it on catgirls at venues and pay for their houses like my ex a few years back did lolol.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

OP, if you really want something to spend on just buy the new overpriced mounts and glamours when DT drops. I'm sure there's going to be something similar to the Fallen Angel's Wings going for 50m+ that'll take out a chunk for ya.

Or just give it away to sprouts and pay it back to the community you've been a part of. I'm sitting on 2-3x what you have and make that part of my routine because not only does it make me feel good, it also helps set someone else on their journey. I'm sure that's something worthwhile to use it on.

Or just dump it on catgirls at venues and pay for their houses like my ex a few years back did lolol.

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i dont really get pleasure out of catgirls tbh. and there arent enough male auras out there XD

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Originally Posted by vetch

The only place OP fucked up was using hyperbole in the title, because there have been people who reply after reading only the title since the internet's infancy. The actual body of the post supports my interpretation.

Inflation is caused when more money is added into a system than is taken back out, and that's exactly what happens in FF14 because the new money being created (e.g. from daily roulettes) far outpaces the small expenses like repairs, market taxes, and teleports.

OP is suggesting adding more trade goods people will want to buy, which is a mildly deflationary measure because the marketboard will extract additional taxes as players trade them -- though I assume he wants them added so he can enjoy spending his money on things he feels are 'worthwhile' rather than because he's ideologically committed to deflation.

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dude spittin facts

after reading so many Richie Rich comments, here's my idea:
the exteriors (walls, windwods, door, landmines, Signs) of Scrooge McDuck's money bin.

- Only Mansions
- NOT tradeable, not refundable
- only one per ward
- Price: to decide (let's say 2billions gils, or 4 tokens sold for 500M each)



- Beagle Boys not included

That's because nothing in this game really matters.
It's a themepark mmo. You try the rides once or twice and leave to play other games.
There's no grinds or long term goals, endgame has a very narrow scope.

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

That's because nothing in this game really matters.

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That's because nothing in any game really matters.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...h3ARpaWQgtkg&s