The new 24 man alliance raids are a disappointment (mechanic wise)

The only real fun part that I remembered from running this raid was to abuse Dissipation to prevent the need to resummoning fairy at Llymlaen.

Too bad they consider this as an ‘issue’.

The rest are pretty mild, but I guess that’s what you get when Euphro made every other raid looks ‘better’ just because how badly undertuned it was.

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Originally Posted by BlazingErial

I do recall Yoshi-P mentioned that they put a new team in charge of the alliance raids for this series. While they did have some interesting ideas like the balance mechanic in Aglaia i do agree that they definitely came out a bit too undertuned.

I'm not asking for the triumphant return of Thunder God, but i feel like the Nier raids struck the perfect balance between difficulty and interesting mechanics.

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It's so strange, I've always found the NieR raids to be harder than the Ivalice raids. The Ivalice raids are the ones that strike the perfect balance for me.
Granted, this might be because I didn't play them until rather late, in Shadowbringers, but I still find NieR now to be harder than Ivalice was back in Shadowbringers.
I find myself making mistakes and getting tagged by stuff a lot more often in NieR. I think it's harder for me to quickly recognize what's happening and react than it is in Ivalice, perhaps due to NieR's duller visuals.

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Ivalice are my favorite raids, because the mechanics are interesting and the visuals are beautiful, and I already loved Ivalice from FFT and FFXII. (It's probably my favorite FF world short of XIV itself.)
I don't mind the raids being a bit on the easier side, because I don't really come for a challenge. But a mechanic doesn't have to be hard to be interesting, and I think it's very fair to criticize the raids for falling short on interesting mechanics.
It's true that thinking back to Aglaia and Eusophrneverrememberhowitsspelled, there wasn't much at all in regards to alliance raid specific mechanics. The towers for Halone is pretty much the only part I can really think of. Not only that, but a lot of the mechanics don't have a lot of personal responsibility either— you can get pretty far by paying zero attention to the fight itself and just following the crowd when they move.

I think a big reason people complain about content being too easy isn't really about difficulty but about the content being engaging, about requiring you to actually pay any attention to the game. I like easy games myself, I hate losing and having to repeat stuff over and over, but that doesn't change the fact that turning on god mode ceases to make a game engaging. Playing with no risk, with infinite health, is boring even for someone who likes easier games, so clearly there's a balance to be had. The game has to give you a reason to engage with it, to pay attention and care about what you're doing. It can't be braindead.

(Obviously FFXIV isn't god mode levels of braindead but the point is that some level of challenge is necessary for a game to be stimulating.)

utterly disappointing

I just dislike that we went from semi puzzles during both add packs like atamos/ bomb/ the undead dragon/ behemoth electric floor, to:
boss
ABC add pack that a single tank can tank
boss
ABC add pack that a single tank can tank
boss

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

In what world did the community agree???

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The world called planet earth?

Like, no matter what you want believe you can't argue with the fact that people have been cheesing to avoid Avalice/Nier raids for ages, so much that they have introduce a "fixes" so people can't "avoid" the harder raids. The perception of majority you have is simply due to the vocal minority who complain loudly. The silent majority doesn't need to be loud, because statistic is already on their side.

If this Thread represents the Players who want the Alliance Raids to be harder, than, Yoshi P. was right. Go and play Ultimate.
Apart from that. Devs are not reading the English Forum. So, your complaints will not be reconised anyway.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

No 24 man has ever been hard. Its lazy, incompetent and unaware players that make 24 mans seems hard.

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People who suffer from anxiety sure will be pleased by your comment.
On the other Hand. If people like you are so fed up there is hope that you will stay away from Alliance Raids. And we, the not so God Like Players do not have to deal with People like you.

this thread is rich and im about it

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Originally Posted by MissBananaNana

Someone on reddit called IzanaghiOkami posted this and I cannor agree more:

"Where are the alliance mechanics? Did the devs forget that this is a raid for 24 players, there's not even something as simple as an add phase where you have to split them. And that final boss was so insanely underwhelming, "mechanics" (if you can even call them that) that a toddler could solve. I'm not asking it to be hard but I don't like being treated as a baby with keys being jingled infront of me and I'm expected to clap and praise the devs for their ingenuity and fun fight design, Euphrosyne had this problem too, the combat was so undertuned with very little unique mechanics or alliance raid responsibilities and the only thing it had going for it imo is music and aesthetics which this one has aswell. This post going to get downvoted to hell because casual players clearly enjoy these fights, but it feels bad that something I used to look forward to just doesn't apply to me anymore because the devs went overboard on dumbing these fights down, and this is like 30% of 6.5's content"

So pls dear FF team consider making the content a bit less easy

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its called the care bear alliance raid. can't have players think or do mechanics only smash button and win.
/s

We should focus our efforts on requesting a savage version of Alliance Raids. Delubrum Reginae Savage was fantastic, several creative mechanics that required individual responsibility and towards all members of other parties! Imagine having something similar every odd patch! I wouldn't mind the normal versions being simple.

I found the new raid challenging and died a lot as a caster dps. We had one group even die on the first trash pull somehow.

It will get easier with practice but I think it had a good challenge for an average pug.

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Originally Posted by AnnRam

If you want harder content go play ultimate or unsub thats what the director said and the community agreed.

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Agreed. As you said, the community has a consensus on this issue and many people are taking advantage of it.

https://files.catbox.moe/8o1w2r.png

Want me to stop posting this image? Stop being correct!

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Agreed. As you said, the community has a consensus on this issue and many people are taking advantage of it.

https://files.catbox.moe/8o1w2r.png

Want me to stop posting this image? Stop being correct!

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Here since this one was weirdly skipped during the YouTube Saga. Specifically laughs at how overused that image is.

https://youtu.be/7lR-KIQzbJ0?si=u48fMjIGq1SycTeZ

The Ivalice raids were super easy aside from specifically Thunder God Cid, which was overtuned on release, and arguably still lasts slightly too long to be fully enjoyable. (And I say this as an Ivalice Enjoyer)

The Nier raids had their moments, but healthbars were definitely too bloated. Running them unsynched with 12-13 people I've found to be the perfect sort of tuning. You still have to respect mechanics, but bosses actually die in a reasonable amount of time.

Myths was super fun overall, and I do think they got the mechanical difficulty about right in most instances. No real 'jank' (Paradigm is miserable because of this), just a reliance on actually paying attention.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

This might be a reason...

https://i.ibb.co/NsDKx7n/RDT-2023091...5831044873.png
line border png

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Please never post a meme ever again.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Here since this one was weirdly skipped during the YouTube Saga. Specifically laughs at how overused that image is.

https://youtu.be/7lR-KIQzbJ0?si=u48fMjIGq1SycTeZ

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Then please discuss this with the original poster who advised that we all unsubscribe. Or I can take a message on his or her behalf, up to you. The new alliance raid is short and forgettable. I can't believe that it only lasted for 30 minutes. Not a single mechanic was memorable.

I think this was the first Alliance Raid I ever did on the first day of release, and first to attempt without watching a guide video first. While we did have a lot of deaths, and maybe a near wipe, I don't feel like a guide was needed at all. Most of the mechanics were very clearly telegraphed, only a few kept me guessing what was about to happen.

It was a lot of fun, though! I had guessed that the final battle might be "all of the Twelve fight us together as one," although I didn't predict it would be so literal about it, lol.

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Originally Posted by Post

Nophica has a combination of the Chimera from the level 38 dungeon from a decade ago and the last boss of Sirensong, the 61 dungeon, from 6 years ago. Both mechanics are way more telegraphed because you get far more time to process and far more obvious, giant, glowy tells.

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Yes, but sometimes I feel like the longer wait until the "forced march" triggers can actually make it harder because it sort of fakes you out a bit as to what AoE is going to be happening when it goes off, or people forget all about it by the time the next AoE pattern comes up. And by "people" I mean me, lol.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Then please discuss this with the original poster who advised that we all unsubscribe. Or I can take a message on his or her behalf, up to you. The new alliance raid is short and forgettable. I can't believe that it only lasted for 30 minutes. Not a single mechanic was memorable.

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Must suck to hate everything.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Must suck to hate everything.

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Meme time!!! "Become what you most, become the warrior of Hatered" meme time over

definitely a far cry from Weeping City or Dun Scaith day one. felt like the whole raid was running around with 2 vuln stacks and my holos + kerachole still keeps them alive when they get hit again.

they played this one way too safe, and it came off half-assed. guess they think we can't hangle harder stuff. its like they're petrified of making another Mhach or Orbonne. or anything remotely close to it.

also, i still can't believe they brought back Nophica's dumb colour matching mechanic and still did absolutely nothing with it. the boss just sits there for 20s doing absolutely FA while you calmly sidestep left to right. couldn't she at least do a chariot/dynamo to make only part of the safe circle safe? or do some reverse nonsense idk. its just bad. tbh i feel they could've done more in general with the reused mechanics. like mixing them together.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Must suck to hate everything.

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I like 90% of FFXIV. This raid is easier than 90% of normal content. While you like the "new direction", most content in the game comes from better days. You like a very small portion of FFXIV (Endwalker) and seem to dislike a vast majority of the actual content here.

I found the third boss pretty challenging, but the other 3 were pretty easy compared.

I haven't done the latest tier but if it's anything like the first two, there has to be one or two decent fights in it (for casual content). Maybe third tier is underwhelming which would suck.

My point being if you're going in and expecting more than one of them to have interesting mechanics I think your expectations are too high. I personally wish they were harder but for 24 man it seems like they're not going in that direction.

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Originally Posted by Strika23

I found the third boss pretty challenging

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That "First Form, Second Form, Third Form" business confused me for a while. At first I thought the arrows were pointing at the symbols of the Twelve around the edge of the arena, and I'd have to anticipate an attack based on specific gods. I had no idea what was happening or why, the first couple of those. Just happened to see the "circle" shape light up on the boss later on, and saw the resulting donut AoE afterwards, and eventually clued in.

I'm still not sure about the left/right side attack of that mechanic, it was all kind of a blur. After the boss dashes forward, does it do the attack right away or does it turn to face the party and thereby reverse the side you have to dodge? (As in, if the right hand glows, is it OUR right or the boss's right?)

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Originally Posted by AnnRam

Nobody enjoys wipping 10 times in the same boss on a 24 man raid , those in fact are for story - lore content. It's suppose to be easy and move on.

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Sure, but I'd still take Ivalice over what we have now where the bosses spend more time teaching us what a knockback looks like and how to deal with left/right/in/out mechanics before anything remotely interesting happens. Like they're spending 3-5 minutes teaching us things we already learned in the level 81-90 dungeons (and Trials). They didn't need to wait until Thaliak does his Tsunami a second time to throw in the balls. He could have done that first thing in the fight. Same with Left/Right (btw we're taught this twice in the same raid) attack. He could do his Zodiark spinning board + Left/Right first thing, rather than later.

There are good ideas in the raids (except Althyk and Nymeia. That fight needs to be remade overall and Althyk suspended for lethargic play), but they're hidden behind tutorial mechanics and since we can't skip them and already outgear the bosses, we rarely, if ever, get to see them. Final boss is also disappointing since they don't really mix 2-3 mechanics together. It would have been nice to see Triangle AoE's appear during the Blue/Yellow flower mechanic, as well as Menphina's Halo/Ice Triangle AoE during the Fan Dance (making it so the players pay attention to which side is actually safe). Also more party mechanics would have been nice, too.

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Originally Posted by Remember_The_Name

I feel so sorry for players who think that solving more than 1 mechanic every 30 seconds is considered Ultimate level of difficulty

Cidolfus Orlandeau, you will be remembered. It is only gonna get worse in the future.

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Funny thing about this is that Thunder God Cid also does one mechanic at a time (seemingly every 30 seconds maybe?). However they're quick and most of them require party coordination. He also teaches us his mechanics one at a time, but most of them are new and more complex (usually things that can't work in dungeons/trials due to not enough players), as well as punishing if done incorrectly.

My only huge complaint about the whole Myths of the Realm series is that each tier only had one boss theme and one unique theme for the final boss. Compared to previous raids where bosses usuallu had different music playing for them.

Its such a missed opportunity on the music department where they actually couldve gone above and beyond and write unique themes for each of the Twelve.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

I like 90% of FFXIV. This raid is easier than 90% of normal content. While you like the "new direction", most content in the game comes from better days. You like a very small portion of FFXIV (Endwalker) and seem to dislike a vast majority of the actual content here.

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Wrong. I like most of the content outside Island Sanctuary, Criterion Dungeons, and FATES. As for those "better days" - I joined XIV 3 years before you had.

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Originally Posted by Tlachtga

guess they think we can't hangle harder stuff. its like they're petrified of making another Mhach or Orbonne

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I still don't think those were ever that hard. I never even used to believe people had trouble with Orbonne because I didn't experience any difficulty with it, but I saw in my linkshells that others had poor experiences in it. I actually think that parties got worse at it when it was no longer current, because after that there were more first timers doing it who weren't familiar with the mechanics. Then when the Echo got added to it, I found parties were still struggling which was incredible after there used to be no problems when it was current.

And really Weeping City was something people wiped to because the mechanics weren't intuitive. Most people had to wipe to learn them or watch a guide or see what players explain in chat. SE just doesn't do it like that anymore and want mechanics to be reasonably guessable on the first try.

All the times I joined Ozma in-prog and saw someone complaining, once the person who complained left and a replacement joined, the raid 1-shotted it, suggesting the complainers attacking everyone's skill were usually the problem themselves.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I still don't think those were ever that hard. I never even used to believe people had trouble with Orbonne because I didn't experience any difficulty with it, but I saw in my linkshells that others had poor experiences in it. I actually think that parties got worse at it when it was no longer current, because after that there were more first timers doing it who weren't familiar with the mechanics. Then when the Echo got added to it, I found parties were still struggling which was incredible after there used to be no problems when it was current.

And really Weeping City was something people wiped to because the mechanics weren't intuitive. Most people had to wipe to learn them or watch a guide or see what players explain in chat. SE just doesn't do it like that anymore and want mechanics to be reasonably guessable on the first try.

All the times I joined Ozma in-prog and saw someone complaining, once the person who complained left and a replacement joined, the raid 1-shotted it, suggesting the complainers attacking everyone's skill were usually the problem themselves.

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Ozma was a really striaght forward simple fight. Draw back was one or more people screwing up more often then not would wiped out a party..

I have to agree with the take that mechanically, all three raids were too easy/not entaging enough. Visually and story wise, Myths of the Realm was a huge joy for me. Mechanics wise, for the first time maybe yes, but after the Nier and Ivalice Raids (my favorite content in the game, except Bozja and Eureka), I came to expect more engaging content than what we got.
For me, the more engaging difficulty comes with having to rely on other players and alliances to execute mechanics correctly, apart from the common stack/spread we get way too much of, and also, I'd wish for mechanics that have a bit more consequences if not done right. It felt like for the current raids, as long as one player knew what to do, others could just follow along and wing it, and that's really boring.
Not every content in this game has to be challenging, but I feel like in Endwalker they completely got rid of content that hits the sweet spot of not being too hard, but also not too easy.

A lot of the reasons why people wiped in Orbonne (TGC) is because TGC had many mechanics that actually required individual party members to handle mechanics. So if someone who was just hoping to be carried was given the bubble of responsibility, they'd "panic" and just plop it somewhere inconvenient. Dusk Blade also did a fair amount of damage if one wasn't filled enough. Two exploding more or less guaranteed a wipe. Then there was the tether that Tanks absolutely should never EVER have on them, yet for whatever reason some tanks really wanted to roleplay as Darkness. Every mechanic was simple and easy to figure out, but the individual responsibility made certain players panic.

One thing I fondly remember are the wipes to Hashmal in Rabanastre. He's not brought up much due to ilevel destroying him, but his DPS check and dust balls were a menace and caused many wipes.

The truth is that people will complain when it’s too hard, and also complain when it’s too easy, there is no middle ground to me, it’s either the alliance wipe («*too hard pls nerf*») or the alliance dont wipe («*its too easy pls we need harder content*»)

I have been very critical of the past two alliance raids but I thought this one was a fun time. It was quite visually impressive, the music was great, and most importantly there were mechanics that actually made me think for a second. People were dropping like flies all around me so I guess the difficulty is about right for the average player. We even wiped on the last boss when the left/right dash mechanic killed most of the raid and I had to stop and explain it. I especially enjoyed the Llymlaen fight with its unique arena and watery wall of death. The post-raid cutscene surprisingly had me choked up as well.

Hopefully this raid series has taught them a lot and they tune things up a bit more from the start in the Dawntrail alliance raids.

I was in a full blind run - we had a couple deaths but no wipes in any of the bosses, so this was somewhat on the scale of Euphrosyne's difficulty, just with newer mechanics. The new encounter design is definitely a plus, and the bosses start hitting a smidge harder and frequently than usual (which is great to see) -- but damage is still really light otherwise, especially if we're getting gear upgrades. Most of the people I was running kind of expected to wipe at least once to the new mechanics, but none of that really happened.

Thematically, I enjoyed the aesthetic and the story. Mechanically, it's still lacking but I think it's better than the previous alliance raids as far as damage frequency goes. Tank responsibility felt diminished and mechanics seem fairly simple, so if they just had 2 different mechanics at the same time while maintaining the frequency of the mechanics, and maybe 2 additional threatening mobs for non-main tanks, with those changes I think this alliance raid would be pretty good at the current ILVL.

My thoughts on damage on certain Mechanics in particular while playing as a healer in a fully blind run:

The many Divine sprites exploding and doing global raidwide damage after being defeated is pretty good, gives me a bit more reminiscent feelings to ivalice's exploding mobs, but scaled appropriately for Lv 90.

There were a couple of DoT bleeds that did hit what I consider a good enough damage for a DoT bleed if you also take into account of its long duration at the current ILVL. Stepping outside of Llymlaen's stage will apply a uncleansable Drowsy DoT debuff that lasts for 21 seconds -- and while the DoT damage didn't hurt too much on its own on a healer/dps, it did a pretty significant amount over a long period of time, making it a good way to keep healers healing a bit more often but without too much pressure.

Torrential Tridents did too low damage landing down. The staggered intervals of damage is fine, but it barely needed any healing for the long wind-up time before the next run-around-and-dodge-aoe mechanic. Bumping up the damage per spear would be fine considering it already barely tickles at the current ilvl without mitigation and my cohealer just needed 1 rapture to bring everyone back to full hp after all the spears landed.

When Oschon was using Lofty Peaks, me and my co-healer sort of expected something more akin to P10N's Harrowing Hell's amount of damage, so both Panhaima and Liturgy of the Bell was used. What we got instead felt much weaker and more of a joke. Even the finishing attack Peak Peril couldn't break through the Panhaima shields (had over 3 stacks remaining) and liturgy was 100% wasted. Quite disappointing.

The Final Boss using Eudaimon Eorzea, just the channel before the cast finishes doing damage makes it much better in terms of damage frequency and heal check.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

Can't tell if this is sarcasm or not, but it's sadly accurate.

Go back to Yoshi's comments on the current relics. It's clear they want to see content clear rates go up, and they're willing to do that by any means.

While it's true they stated that they had a newer team working on the EndWalker raids, they also mentioned a higher difficult for this release. That didn't happen, and it's clear that they had no intention of making it happen.

The sad part is that the community will be thrilled by it. They'll see this as SE being widely accepting of everyone, when the reality is SE just wants to increase the number of completions in order to make it seem like they're producing good content.

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They are producing good content regardless if it is your opinion or not. If you are unhappy go play something else or go outside.

Criticism is a good thing, though. Without it, we'd probably still be dealing with ARR's weird 3 second tick latency thing that wasn't fixed until 2.1.

or heck, FFXIV would still be with 1.0 gameplay

I thought the wind lady in the ocean hole had a good amount of mechanics. And the final boss was kinda sensory overload level of mechanics, at least until I got the hang of the flow of it.


Also I really liked the one trash fight where all the NPCs were there talking, everyone assumed it was just boring filler scenery and were running past it but then it was a fight. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by CaedemSanguis

The truth is that people will complain when it’s too hard, and also complain when it’s too easy, there is no middle ground to me, it’s either the alliance wipe («*too hard pls nerf*») or the alliance dont wipe («*its too easy pls we need harder content*»)

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Of course there is a middle ground, you want the content to be hard enough to where it is a challenge but you don’t want the content to wipe the entire raid when a single person dies. It’s very easy to cater to one side of the extreme.

For me I thought the AR was extremely boring and took too long probably because I was extremely bored. I was sat there jaw dropped when I realised the first boss was only half health and it felt like it was taking ages to complete. The raid wasn’t that good looking either and the story was incredibly disappointing. This expansion is following the trend of killing anything cool or meaningful about FF14s setting.

The last thing I wanted was to help gods commit suicide, I feel like I’m playing an atheists wet dream, rather than a fantasy game. I’ve unsubbed again because the content quality is abysmal this expansion. I feel it really hard to continue paying when I go buy monster hunter world for 30 pounds which has really good content with forgiving yet challenging bosses, housing, online multiplayer, good and unique crafting etc and long term repeatable content that’s interesting with unique rewards with holiday events and it doesn’t cost me a sub.

I get Yoshi says go play other games but at this point especially this year there is no reason to play FF14 instead of other games and I have a social group who heavily plays FF14, so I wonder what it’s like for people who don’t.

It was disappointing that throughout the whole thing there’s no clever mechanics that make use of having three parties. I actually enjoyed the puzzle-like bosses of ARR and HW and players needing to run around and do other things besides hitting the boss without standing in the bad.

Splitting everyone up with forced party placement in the right spots like NieR did a few times was at least a good middle ground and I wish they expanded upon creative mechanics while retaining repeat sanity that has some common sense dummy proofing but still maintains some sort of edge. A stronger vuln-esque thing that more heavily punishes you for failing the same mechanic two or three times could be that. Outright death usually isn’t fun but polymorph or jail mechanics solvable by the failed players could be.


But the silver lining is that the boss mechanics are at least fun enough and re-running these for coins or in roulettes for years down the line won’t be as painful as previous iterations of alliance raids. The only frustration point is when people screw up the balance mechanic in the first one since giving 1 person the power to fail the raid for 23 other people is never fun, as others mentioned previously for TGC. Having difficult insta-wipe mechanics is fun or at least tense/interesting for the first few weeks, but when the playerbase as a whole has it down on farm and it’s no longer relevant content it just becomes aggravating when player You’dont Pay’my’sub runs to the wrong party spot, ignores chat, and wipes the party on content that is years old.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

They are producing good content regardless if it is your opinion or not. If you are unhappy go play something else or go outside.

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I mean I'm willing to accept that my opinion isn't fact, but you should probably be willing to do the same. You are perhaps one of the most immature and hypocritical forum users I've ever encountered here as you never offer anything constructive to any threads. You simply sit there attacking other people, telling them their opinions aren't valid, to leave, or to go outside(which, most probably go out more than you considering you're terminally online).

I did the blind raid with a friend yesterday, and we were really disappointed.

The raid is purely aesthetic, but mechanically speaking, it's as empty as Euphrosyne, except they added icons to exactly indicate where you need to position yourself in advance.

It's just the logical continuation of Euphrosyne.

I also found the raid's progression system very strange.

We walk a bit at the beginning, deal with trash mobs, and then we only walk a few meters between the first three bosses,
If you compare the progression system to all the previous raids, it's certainly the most uneven we've ever seen.

Also, in terms of HP balance, the first two bosses are literally getting obliterated.
The final boss is a recycling of E12, both in terms of concept and its 3D skeleton.