Like??????Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker44
Forspoken??
-
06-25-2023, 12:31 PMTheDecay
-
06-25-2023, 01:53 PMAtelier-BagurOh my goodness, you have no idea how in love Im with this statement. Yeah pretty much couldnt have explained it any better. Expecting games to still be consistently good is by surprise STILL GOOD. If youre constantly seeking for masterpieces then Im sorry but thats the wrong kind of mindset to have with the industry. Youll never be left satisfied or happy this way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker44
-
06-25-2023, 02:05 PMAtelier-BagurTry Octopath Traveler 1 and 2, Dragon Quest XI, Star Ocean: The Divine Force, Harvestella, Triangle Strategy (still such a stupid name but), Bravely Default II and yes we should include FFXIV as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDecay
These are some titles that came around within the last 5 or so years. If youre going to bullshit with handpicking the most recent bombs like Forspoken, then dont come with this lack of perspective argument. -
06-25-2023, 02:08 PMShinkunoStar Ocean, the one sitting at mixed reviews? lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur
-
06-26-2023, 02:58 AMRufalusLove you, caffe. I just want to give you some respect for having standards and bothering to engage, despite this place being a hive of dismissive spammers who aren't very receptive to actual opinions. I've been enjoying your posts for a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato
It's a design failure if a game has to prompt you to mash buttons. It's an adventure on rails. You're quite right, the power of PS5 is not being used here to advance game design at all. Judging the gameplay alone it's even a generation behind Zelda on Switch. Those games use tech to increase player expression. FF XVI still has invisible walls and icons to lead you to the correct path, indicate the things you're supposed to hop across or squeeze through.
I know it's a story game. It's still not a movie, and shouldn't be judged like one. The interactive parts will always be the most important thing in a videogame. People are dazzled by the cinematic spectacle and ready to hand it GOTY awards. I will praise FF XVI for having good music and cutscenes, but those elements alone don't make a great game. They only compliment gameplay.
It's hard. Quality RPGs have been hit by a near extinction event. There's been a huge gap since Sakaguchi left Square 20 years ago. I had some optimism when Yoshida was confirmed producer on FF XVI. It's his first single player FF. He is a huge fan of the old ones. All of the key staff prefer the older games. Unfortunately they still made something that does not resemble the series roots. They made what they thought the world wants, a game for people who don't like RPGs, again.Quote:
What’s most likely is that people will leave behind the Final Fantasy franchise and seek out games with actual gameplay and depth.
I've tried to be as respectful as I can over the years. Sometimes I reel back my criticism a bit because I can see the passion they put into their work. Yoshida is a good guy and he works hard. But it's clear now after both XIV and XVI that he is not the guy to promote gameplay complexity, player freedom. When they reveal a XIV expansion they frame the story, that's it. Upgrades to game systems don't happen. New approaches to the core gameplay loop don't happen.Quote:
Hopefully when Yoshi-P resigns from the company, we can get an actual Final Fantasy MMO and single-player counterpart that doesn’t follow the hallway brainrot formula.
Somebody told you it's not that serious. No. Videogames are the greatest art form of the modern world. That's why we care. Good design should be protected, preserved, taught and improved. Instead we've seen a regression in many genres. It takes them 4x longer to complete projects that aren't nearly as good as old shit. They want to cast the widest net, aim for the lowest common denominator. -
06-26-2023, 03:14 AMIvtrix
Holy shit it’s like clockwork 1 combat job and all crafter/gatherers maxed
-
06-26-2023, 05:03 AMMonsutaMan
Haters of XVI want it to do poorly, because they want this era of FF era to end.......I want the latter, but could careless of the former. I am just over this FF identity crisis era.
I mean no disrespect to Yoshi as a human being or person, but I am not a fan of him as a producer.....I am sorry......
XIV's combat is decent & keeps me around due to the work Matsui did, but I feel XIV can be MUCH better than it currently is, or has been....
DISCLIAMER: This is not an attack on him as a human being, because it is just a damn game....... -
06-26-2023, 05:17 AMR041
I've been waiting, and hype for XVI since we knew it was a thing - I'm unfortunately not enjoying it as a game. :(
It's been a pretty cool movie, but the balance for everything is whack. It doesn't feel engaging or good to me. It's clear a lot of the new design philosophies with XIV the past few expansions are just a CBU:III trademark at this point. Lack of diversity, lack of itemization, gearing, exploration, difficulty. All of it - Both games suffer tremendously for nearly the exact same reasons.
It's wild to me that, even given the opportunity to not be held down by their MMO gimmicky standards, they're still strapped to them and don't know how to balance a single-player game. I thought it was just an MMO thing, but it's actually a CBU:III thing.
5+ damage every new upgraded weapon? Costs 1.5k? I have 100k? Orchestrion Rolls 20k? +5hp when I have 1500hp? Fangs and 2gil as drops everywhere? MSQ gives 100x rewards of any exploration? Combat is a 1 minute blip in the sea of Cutscenes?
I see a big monster in the distance, and a gold shiny behind it? I should just grab the shiny and run.. Oh, it's 1 hide. Okay, maybe the monster has something? Kill it, takes 5 minutes of button spam, my hand hurts now.. 10xp 5gil. WHAT IS GOING ON.
This game seriously needs a re-balance. Who's in charge of this whack balance for XIV and XVI. It's not fun, it's just cinematic. XVI actively teaches you to avoid anything not MSQ, just like XIV.
I'm only playing it for the MSQ now, and if 'Final Fantasy Mode' just means more hp, then I don't think my lil carpal tunnel wrists can take it. I wanted challenge, not spam.
Also a huge DMC fan, so this should have resonated with me the hardest, but it just isn't a good DMC or a good Final Fantasy. It's weirdly weak versions of both in terms of gameplay. :/
But again, I think the core value is definitely there, it just needs adjustments.
And no I'm not using the ez baby rings, with how easy the game is already - You put on those rings and you may as well just give the controller to your dog or something. lol
5/10 game
9/10 movie -
06-26-2023, 11:02 AMVelKallor..a fact more than a few have forgotten.Quote:
because it is just a damn game.......
-
06-26-2023, 11:19 AMAtelier-Bagur
Ok so I still dont feel like I'm as far into the game but have gone far enough to where the main core conflict of the game is starting to show and my word does this game really, reeeeally drive home how much I hate the pure ugliness of humanity.
I'm slowly starting to warm up into the idea how the game grabs you into its world and wants you to experience the narrative rather than it just being a "fun" rpg. Which honestly is CBUIII's strength with their games where they basically focus on immersing you into the world on story heavy narrative hooks.
While I get that people expected more freedom in the gameplay although I would also argue that previous linear FF games such as FFX did what FFXVI did in its gameplay pacing, I'm not minding the lack of rpgs elements. I feel they definitely paced the gameplay and narrative well since once you're hooked, you're hooked for the whole thing and you dont want it to stop. And the combat sprinkled into it works very well now that it slowly starts to open up once you get more abilities and options.
Yeah so far I'm reeeeally enjoying the game. I can understand the gripes like R041 feel about it but I also personally think people need to be more open to what the game is trying to do, because once you let go of those personal biases (for the record, this kind of style of game ISNT SOMETHING I WOULD PERSONALLY ENJOY) you can fully start to appreciate the experience its offering. -
06-26-2023, 11:25 AMRufalusIt's a hard mode in the same way XIV hard dungeons are hard. The enemies are higher level than the first visit but so are you. Actual difficulty or length isn't altered much. It also turns off the icon display of QTE prompts but you already know to press the square button. I saw a trophy site give this game a 3/10 difficulty rating for obtaining the Platinum. You can still use the assist rings in Final Fantasy mode to make it play itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by R041
-
06-26-2023, 12:27 PMBoblawblahThis sums it up for me, except it's not that great of a movie, I'd give it a 7/10 movie.Quote:
Originally Posted by R041
100% style, almost no substance. There's an identity crisis in this game for sure. DMC style action game? Not really, DMC players want to get to the action, FFXVI is doing everything it can to take you away from it. RPG? Nope, it's the least RPG game in the entire series.
With an mmo like FFXIV, I expect that the MSQ will be cutscene heavy, there's always a lot of side content I can do. FFXVI, that's the ENTIRE game. My order of time spent ranked went like this
1: cutscenes/dialogue.
2: walking forward
3: crazy long boss battles with QTEs and some normal fighting.
4: battles against little dudes
I don't have an exact count, but I'm willing to bet that's fairly accurate. I'm going to stop here, I'm annoyed right now (just finished it lol). There is a lot of good to the game, but everyone has already mentioned that. -
06-26-2023, 02:05 PMR041Quote:
Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur
I really try to put my biases aside, I try to like it.. I like the story, the cast, and the general worldbuilding they got going on. They have great writers, VA, visuals, and they know how to make a game. But then when every story event throws enemies at me and they all die in 2 seconds, it makes the pacing of the whole thing feel really weird. That's not even an exaggeration, the only time I don't kill EVERYTHING on screen within 2 seconds, is if it's a fat dude or a mini-boss that just end up being a sponge for 5 minutes. I wish these were exaggerations. lol
The pacing and balance is all over the place and make 0 sense. Make it make sense! I'm already wishing for a remaster / rebalance, things are so jacked up in this game it's like everything but the story itself was a complete afterthought. Last minute "Oh, we have a world - We should probably put like, items in it or something. Just sprinkle 2 gil, blood hides, and fangs everywhere. Sweet. Let's go gold!"
I'm trying not to be picky, but these issues are so glaringly obvious most of the time. :( -
06-26-2023, 02:08 PMJojoyaThat's weird. I've been watching content creators intentionally ignore the main story to do the side quests/hunts because many of them have beneficial rewards like a permanent increase to potion potency and new recipes for better gear (not to mention some of the materials to make that gear). Those side quests have become a priority when they appear.Quote:
Originally Posted by R041
Sounds like you went into the game with an intention to find reasons to hate it because of your feelings about XIV and so you're missing out.
Also wondering if you've already beat it on hard mode or if you're judging it solely on normal mode, which is intended to make the full story accessible to all audiences. -
06-26-2023, 02:11 PMR041Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
Nah, those side-quests with substance that you're talking about are a dime a dozen. It ain't like that. Almost all of them are Gil Bug, 20 Crafting Mats of garbage. Are you playing this game? No? Then don't act like you know what you're talking about. https://www.powerpyx.com/final-fanta...-quests-guide/
Reward: 5 XP, 1 Meteorite, 1 Gil Bug
Reward: 5 XP, 500 Gil, 10 Wyrrite
Reward: 18 XP, 10 Valley Madder, 20 Sharp Fang, 30 Bloody Hide
Reward: 20 XP, 100 AP, 1 Gil Bug
Reward: 18 XP, 10 Sharp Fang, 5 Bloody Hide
Reward: 20 XP, 100 AP, 10 Magicked Ash, 1 Meteorite
Reward: 18 XP, 1000 Gil, 10 Wyrrite, 10 Magicked Ash
Reward: 20 XP, 1000 Gil, 10 Wyrrite, 1 Meteorite
Reward: 20 XP, 20 Wyrrite, 10 Sharp Fang
Reward: 20 XP, 30 Wyrrite, 30 Sharp Fang, 1 Meteorite
Reward: 15 XP, 1 Gil Bug
Reward: 15 XP, 10 Sharp Fang, 1 Black Blood
Reward: 20 XP, 10 Wyrrite, 5 Steelsilk
Reward: 18 XP, 1000 Gil, 20 Steelsik, 20 Bloody Hide
Reward: 20 XP, 1100 Gil, 1 Meteorite
Reward: 18 XP, 1000 Gil, 25 Magicked Ash
Reward: 20 XP, 150 AP, 30 Magicked Ash
Reward: 18 XP, 20 Magicked Ash
Guess what I can spend all that gil on? Nothing, because it doesn't matter. I already have 100k from MSQ, and I never need to craft because I always somehow have the best gear after finishing story.
THERE IS NO HARD MODE UNTIL YOU BEAT THE GAME. It's Easy Mode, Easy Mode with Easy Rings, and Easiest Mode, Easiest Mode with Easy Rings.
Also, Content Creators always intentionally drag everything out, it's not about doing things of substance. It's about taking as much time as they can with everything so they can make as much money as they can from viewers. It's almost like we all have first hand experience with this in XIV. Jfc don't be so gullible.
It's extremely clear you don't know what you're talking about - Anyone that's played XVI can immediately understand what I'm saying about the balance of quests, monsters, gil, crafting, materials. Even talking in this thread acting like you know what you're talking about, only having watched the game makes you just a contrarian. I can give praise, but these issues are pretty glaring to most players that actually play the game for longer than 2 hours. -
06-26-2023, 02:55 PMJojoyaI'm aware that completing the game on normal mode first is required to unlock hard mode. Thanks for clarifying that you haven't been able to beat the game yet even on easy mode yet. Got it. You're not in a position to judge just how hard the game can be then, are you?Quote:
Originally Posted by R041
You're right, I don't have a PS5 so I can't play the game. I'm limited to watching others who are playing it and sharing those playthroughs online. They have the things they like. They have things they don't like and they're honest about them. But overall, they're really enjoying the game and they are doing those side quests because they are getting rewards they feel worthwhile, even that gil you say is useless because there are things they want to buy and collect such as the orchestrion rolls. They're also looking forward to going through the content on hard mode once they've got it unlocked.
Strange how my friends who are playing the game are enjoying without complaint as well. I can't watch them as they play since they don't stream, though.
I'm not being gullible. Games are for relaxation and entertainment. They don't have to be difficult to be enjoyable. So sorry that game companies are trying to sell their games to a wide audience and so they include multiple difficulties to give everyone something to enjoy. So sorry your ego can't handle playing the same game as those who aren't looking for a difficult challenge.
Try getting back to us once you've completed the game on hard mode and then start complaining about how baby easy the game is. Or better yet, walk away from CBU3 games altogether since it's clear you've already made up your mind that you are not going to like any game it produces. -
06-26-2023, 02:56 PMTheDecayIn other words, you would much rather everyone dissatisfied with the game to simply leave so that any avenue for feedback to the developers becomes an echo chamber - sometimes even filled with people who never played the game defending CBU3 on their behalf. What a hateful, small-minded comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
-
06-26-2023, 03:17 PMKatt_Felista
FF16 is not a final fantasy in the sense that it lacks everything that makes fantasy, mythology in final fantasy games, mythical creatures, the stapple and rpg elements of final fantasy games, while the demo presents the best part of the "edgyness" of the story as a bait the core of the game is very bland, boring, a walking simulator of a medieval fantasy, and you can almost remove entirely the fantasy out of medieval fan, it's too safe, the characters all lack "character", Clive is extremely passive, doesn't shine of any particular character's trait, and even less the secondary characters.
I want to oppose what the bland and grey boring world of FF16 is, to what FF4, and more recent as a magnum opus of real final fantasy "magic" to it's peak, Final fantasy 9. FF16 is devoid of too many things and treat it's rpg elements like second class citizen systems, it's a good capcom combat system with a very uninteresting non really fantasy story on top of it. -
06-26-2023, 04:09 PMShinkuno"I didnt even play the game but let me shill for my favourite company!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
-
06-26-2023, 04:24 PMRitsukoSonoda
Playing it right now. Story isn't bad. However feels like an action game and not an RPG. Gameplay is reduced to how well you press buttons (provided you aren't cheesing it with the crutch accessories). ATM nearly all the thought elements of RPGs appear to have been removed much like this game. About the only strategic element I see atm is choosing which Eikons and abilities to slot once you get far enough to have choices. Visually the game is very pretty... However am I the only one that feels like Clive looks a bit too much like this game's flagship Derplander?
Also why no Carbuncle Dominant? I want to see someone turn into a cute fluffy animal... >.> -
06-26-2023, 05:59 PMIkaraGreydancerThe moment they give more in depth rpg system yall will complain about balance.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDecay
Status ailments are absent...do you even play xiv? Like at all?
Who tf wants elemental strength in ffxiv?
Loot is an afterthought eh? I guess that's why folks are running dungeons n raids everyday for loot...oh wait...
You not wanting to explore dungeons via the feature is a you problem. I personally like going in and reading the lore of places like Ktisis n such. Overworld? I could kind of see though isn't Aether..what's it called? The orbs you need to fly pretty much your exploration?
For a game that's all style n no substance you look foolish paying for something like that monthly. Just saying -
06-26-2023, 07:29 PMAtelier-Bagur
As someone who is a literal fanboy of the FF series having played every mainline FF game and most of the side games to death. Im just laughing at the whines and cried of people here saying that FFXVI isnt an FF game.
Its an FF game. Seems to me that people are just desperately trying to use that as an excuse for not liking the game so they try to validate or justify that opinions by demeaning the product to make themselves feel better.
Look its not my favorite game (yet I still have yet to finish to formulate that opinion yet), I still regard FFIX as the best one but FFXVI is still a FF game. -
06-26-2023, 07:37 PMthevanguardW...who said FF16 isn't an FF game...Quote:
Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur
?_?
Find better bait next time -
06-26-2023, 07:43 PMAtelier-BagurDoes it loo like I was speaking to you with this post? Im referreing to thee general conversation surrounding FFXVIQuote:
Originally Posted by thevanguard
-
06-26-2023, 10:14 PMPayadopa
So far I'm enjoying it because I also really like DMC and Bayonetta but as an FF I'm disappointed by the lack of meaningful discoveries and anemic side-quests. The lore is great but all I do is walk from A to B and all I find is crafting materials and 2 Gil. :( No secret bosses so far either. I'm sure they'll come eventually. Also, why are there no RPG elements? I wasn't too sure ... until I killed a bomb with a fire attack. Sigh. It's like XIV all over again.
I like the game, I enjoy the dark tone, the combat is great but... as an FF it's barely anything I come to love about the series. The last good FF was XII, honestly. I was hoping for something similar but with DMC but... I kinda stopped exploring. A sword that's +2 Str or crafting stuff is not worth my time.
As a game, great. As an FF... I'm very divided. -
06-26-2023, 11:18 PMR041Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
You just want to argue with me for sake of argument - Unfortunately I don't really consider your opinions from watching Streamers valid because you don't have first hand experience with the game. After 30 hours of PLAYING, I imagine someone would have an OK understanding and can make a judgement on a game. That's about 20 hours past tutorial for FF standards. 10 hours for XIII. lol
It's not that XVI is an absolutely horrible piece of shit, if you think I'm saying that, then you're misunderstanding and aren't paying attention. It has so many cool systems that each of them just need to be pushed slightly forward to make a fucking masterpiece. It's like Variant Dungeon - It's so close to being amazing, but it's pretty clear the design is super micro managed and something or someone cut costs just to get the systems out. Story focused, but content diminished.
After 30 hours, I've killed a pretty wide variety of shit, I've done most side quests, I have most equipment. It was only AFTER I even finished story stuff that I went back to do these side-quests, because they weren't even worth doing unless you wanted more story from a mannequin shaking their hands.
You're contradicting yourself saying you watch people saying they have things they like/don't like, but also tell me how your friends have no complaints? Okay.
You have 2nd hand experience from watching someone else, and you're also assuming you know everything they're thinking about the game. I'm telling you from first hand experience how I'm finding XVI as an FF + DMC player.
You don't know the feeling of running to a glowy drop in the distance only to be met with 2gil. Over and over and over. It makes your heart sink. It teaches you to stop wanting to do that thing.
And now you need me to beat the game, in order for me to find the pacing of the game and story good? I don't understand - Are you reading what I'm saying? Most story events that occur, like 30 minutes of buildup, usually end in 2 seconds where I AoE everyone in a melted puddle.
Also all of the RPG elements, I can sit here and argue that they're bad, which they.. Kinda are, they're super sub-par, but if you just removed them from the game entirely, I probably wouldn't have been as frustrated.
"Gil is worth it because Orchestrion Rolls" bro this isn't an MMO.. Those should have been challenges, not gil sinks.
You are gullible, because you told me you watch Streamers do all the side-quests because they're apparently worth it. 90% of the time they're not. You try doing those side-quests with no rewards and tell me if you don't fall asleep. lol
These aren't uncommon complaints either. After playing a ton, I decided to start reading some player reviews. Not Journalists. Not Streamers. Players. It's pretty obvious my problems aren't niche, and that's not because Final Fantasy. It's because game design.
Anyway - I'm positive 'Final Fantasy Mode' will have better pacing, it's just unfortunate I have to beat the game first to experience a decently paced story + game combination, when they gave us an easier mode, AND easy rings, making it seem like the Normal mode would be even somewhat challenging.
I genuinely believe people are having a blast with XVI, I'm mostly being picky. So don't take my word as the game as a whole being horrible. Again I said the story is about a 9/10 for me right now. Combat is getting a little better, but I still instantly kill non-stagger enemies, which is super frustrating when you've played DMC and know how things should go. Mah Combos :( -
06-26-2023, 11:32 PMR041Quote:
Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer
It's like you're so close to understanding the complaints, but refuse to believe that's what FF and older XIV is. lol
You know Stagger? Are you even playing the game? You know this is an XVI thread right? Anyway - These are basically elemental decision making systems. Without the elements.. You're again so close to understanding critical decision making in games, but refuse to believe they should be a thing? You make Damage oriented attacks Fire and Stagger Ice and it's basically the same thing. People just want wider variety of interaction and reaction, that's all.
You forgot FFVII:R exists and is pretty highly praised.. Itemization, Equipment, Party Synergy.. Except for the time ghosts. Fuck those guys. Combat is phenomenal and should be new gold standard.
Honestly if they made something where it was a mix of VII:R and XVI, like you hot-swap between characters and they had their own lil combos and Eikon abilities. That would be fucking awesome.
I'm not a 'purist', and anyone that acts like FF needs to be something specific is mostly wrong. I just think XVI kinda missed the mark on some great things they could've done better. It's okay to criticize this shit, and you all need to be more comfortable with criticism or we'll just keep getting garbage.
The lore system, the world building, the characters.. Most of that shit in XVI is AMAZING. Oh my god, I go talk to the lady that gives me historical details, and I can check all of the character connections with each other over the years. Then of course the live lore details. Whoever decided to make these is the GOAT. -
06-26-2023, 11:37 PMJamieRoseYou can't spell ignorant without IGN!Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDecay
-
06-26-2023, 11:50 PMR041Yeah that's exactly what a lot of people are saying.. I put my FF hype down for a minute and think about what I'm playing. Realize some things just don't feel good unfortunately. Some of the game design is questionable. I can only be so excited for +5HP, 2 gil, Blood Hide, Fangs so many times.. It feels like fluff. The FF stuff feels like they're tacked on you know? Like they shouldn't really belong, so in some scenarios it'd be best to just not have them at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Payadopa
There are some high highs, but these lows and thoughts of what could have been are kinda.. Eh.. It don't feel good in the heart. Still a good game overall, but I don't think $70 is worth the gameplay when I know people would enjoy it almost just as much as if they watched it. Maybe more to be honest. Like if Jojo over here is having a blast watching it? Maybe that's the way to go. Can't be disappointed in a game only giving you 2gil for exploration if you just watch it as a movie. lol -
06-27-2023, 12:16 AMAtelier-BagurI would have to disagree with some points made here, especially the FF stuff. Without the iconic well....eikons and aether and crystals then the story wouldnt really work.Quote:
Originally Posted by R041
Remember, how come its completely ignored how the most popular game in the franchise....that being FFVII which arguably has more merit to be the less of an FF game is being argued as a "true FF" game than the more fantasy elements of FFXVI? You can seriously try to argue this point. What? Is it because of how its gameplay is still the same as the other games?
Now I agree that the solo character experience with only playing as Clive is very jarring in a series rooted in playing a cast of characters and its not a design choice I wouldve taken. But everything else about it such as your abilities, limit breaks, skill system is still intact with what came before.
I will also somewhat agree with the loot system being uninteresting but the numerous crafting materials you get from shinies and chests contributes to your gear upgrades which at least in spirit it serves with character progression.
Also people who argue about the 5gil drops ooooooooh boy let me tell you about a little game called FF2 where most of the treasure is littered with trash just like that. How about try finding only 1 gil in a treasure chest in that game!!!
Yeah know your series history my man. -
06-27-2023, 12:28 AMR041Yeah I'm not talking about the actual story/setting FF stuff. Sorry what I said was super broad, what I mean is with how the crafting and loot works - Sometimes I feel like it'd be better off just not providing that as a game system because a weak version is worse than no version. Me finding 2gil over and over is worse than me finding no gil. You know? And crafting having almost no value is worse than no crafting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur
It's got FF. The Eikon stuff totally works, the story and setting is great, I've been saying it's great and FF as fuck. I think it could've been done with party members instead of your main character having it all. BUT - I also understand from a story perspective, it'd get real weird and they couldn't.. Harm your party. But that's also kind of FF. I don't know, THAT part is a super grey area and it'd suck to lose an Eikon element because a party member died.
Talking about FFVII, we're just bringing up setting, and you know I ain't talking about that. It IS super refreshing to have a MEDIEVAL FF again. And we know that's not super consistent, that all went out the window starting from VI, which we should be thankful for. Or we may as well be Dragon Quest.
DON'T WHATABOUTISM FF2, yeah there are way worse systems. Doesn't mean I can't have feedback and criticisms. :)
"Yeah know your series history my man." - You're so confidently condescending without understanding my feedback. Bad loot isn't an FF staple just because there are a few in the series that have bad loot. FF games thrive because they take what worked every iteration and push it forward, typically leaving behind worse systems. Not bring them back.
I don't know how far into XVI you are, it kinda sounds like you're not very far. 95% of the materials you get are worthless and sit in your inventory as junk. I have 400 Blood Hide, 500 Wyrrite, 200 Steelsilk, 400 Sharp Fang, 500 Magicked Ash, for what? Is this just all sell fodder? You immediately get the materials you need to craft the best weapon from beating a boss. Then any upgrade after that is a quick +5. Not 5%, +5. Coming from 200, a +5 does nothing, and +5hp when you have 2k means nothing. Especially considering I 1 shot almost all creatures anyway, I don't even bother with +5 upgrades.
Anyway - You can enjoy the game, and I believe a lot of people are fully engrossed and having a great time. Don't get so defensive folks. It's just feedback. lol
Even with these flaws, it's still probably in my top 5 FFs. -
06-27-2023, 12:47 AMTomsYoungerBroI agree with the sidequest issue. 16 does have the equivalent of 14's "Blue" sidequests in that they are quests with meaningful rewards, but the large majority are normal sidequests that give essentially nothing like 14's normal sidequests. 16 I guess does do a little better with them at least giving rep which works towards rewards, but they still are not worth it.Quote:
Originally Posted by R041
This is just not true though. The best gear and weapon come from doing specific "Blue" sidequests and gathering correct materials. If you do nothing but MSQ, you will not have the best possible gear in the end.Quote:
and I never need to craft because I always somehow have the best gear after finishing story.
-
06-27-2023, 12:48 AMHanayumi
A thrilling story of a world and its inhabitants facing a world ending event with the all too familar bestiary, spellcraft, and gods, FFXVI is certainly just as a Final Fantasy. Now as an rpg, definitely not, there are pretty much just 2 aspects that change the functionality of your character, your Eikon abilities and what you equip for your 3 rings, thats about it... Now does this make FFXVI a bad game, no, far from it is an awesome story driven action game with a very detailed world and lore and a very fun combat system, that can be simple or insanely combo heavy. In the end your personal preference being left out of a game does NOT make the game bad, its just means its likely not a game for you and FFXVI is solidly not going everyones Final Fantasy.
-
06-27-2023, 12:50 AMR041Quote:
Originally Posted by TomsYoungerBro
Yeah I misspoke and wasn't clear - It's not always the BEST. But the problem is you know you're getting something way better if you just do MSQ consistently, and in Normal Mode nothing survives longer than a second so why bother with min-maxing that +5 dmg +5hp. It's kinda like doing FFXIV leveling dungeons. You never really need the gear, you get basically the best gear from just doing MSQ, so stopping to upgrade every chance you get makes no sense, and it's not like you glam armor. Especially when it's all easy anyway. lol
This might be different for 'Final Fantasy Mode', or the mode after. But currently it's not worth the time or effort.
Yeah I by no means would say it's a bad Final Fantasy. I'm just being nitpicky.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanayumi
My complaints basically boil down to..
The game teaches me to not care about the nuanced systems like crafting / loot / gil / combos.
Combos are interesting, because it's such an integral system in the combat, but is completely overridden by them giving you full Eikon energy on everything every fight you start. It's like starting every fight in Final Fantasy with a free Ifrit Summon that only takes 1 second to cast, and 1 shots all mobs except for the fat one. If they made you work for this energy, and it was expended for every Eikon ability you did, that'd be way better to me personally. Do combos to build up Eikon Energy, then expend 3 bars on 3 abilities. Then combo it out again. You know?
That's just the problem, they put a lot of effort into a lot of things, and it shows. But they diminish themselves as fun and engaging systems so easily by making weird balance decisions.
Whatever team's in charge of 'balance' from an engaging gameplay perspective, needs to just stop please. Let someone else give it a try. The things that are cheap shouldn't be cheap, the things that are expensive shouldn't be expensive, they should be challenges. The things that are drawn out shouldn't be drawn out. I shouldn't get all the cool Eikon gear for free, but the cheap trash armor grinded. Million gil from MSQ, but 100gil from spending an hour in an open zone. Makes no sense. Like I said, it's all flip flopped and whack. -
06-27-2023, 01:23 AMRufalusThey take an average of what gamers wants. It wants to simultaneously be for action gamers who don't like command-based strategy, and for the old timer Final Fantasy players who are not comfortable with the pace of action games. It wants the lowest barrier for entry and to appeal to both western and eastern tastes.Quote:
Originally Posted by R041
Gaming was good when it was less democratized. When there wasn't such a big corporate structure and targets of X millions of sales. Some of those old designers just tried to make the ultimate game for their own personal tastes with little regard to how they might be received overseas, if localisation even happened.
In doing so we got some wonderfully weird and unique games that added to the fabric of gaming culture. They are now working at a scale where they cannot afford for any mainline FF to be a failure so it's built to mitigate risk. Quite a safe and bland game (apart from over-the-top cutscenes). -
06-27-2023, 01:39 AMLaurontI'd add SoP. I've enjoyed that game's combat system a lot too. Both were neglected when XVI was on its "first true action RPG" marketing push. Of course you can caveat that "...only the mainline series", but 7R is still really difficult to ignore in that context and I think it had a better system than XVI's. I really dislike the long stagger timers in XVI. Overall I agree with your sentiment on it. It's good, but it is being over-hyped, and there's small changes they could've made to make it even better. The trash is, by and large, so bad it may as well not exist. I'd be more understanding if the hard mode was available from the outset, assuming it addresses it.Quote:
Originally Posted by R041
That's the distinctive impression I get, too. Feels like design by the numbers. You can tell which games/series it's taking inspiration from (at least I can from the ones familiar to me) and blending together. It's not a bad game, by any means, and I am enjoying the grittier vibe of the plot (could've been a bit bolder, but it's fine for what it is), but even if I neglect the combat system, the story elements themselves feel a bit under-developed. Still, it does excel when it comes to cinematography and music. The Bahamut fight, for example, was really memorable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufalus
-
06-27-2023, 03:59 AMR041
The more I think about it, the more I really wish Eikon energy wasn't just given to you at the start of every fight. It feels way too easy, and wrong to be able to just insta-nuke everything as soon as the fight starts. You should have to work for those abilities in the middle of your combos, but you just kinda blast them all off like they're OP oGCDs.
It doesn't feel right in an action game like this. It makes me unreasonably salty knowing that 1 thing would change so much of the pacing in the game and story. You wind me up to get mad at an enemy because they do unspeakable things, and then I don't even get to toy with them. They just disappear in an instant.
Then anything with Stagger just stays around for longer than they should. There's really no middle ground in this game. It either dies in 1 second, or takes 5 minutes. You never get to juggle anything or do sick combos because your combos are limited on Stagger enemies, and the ones you CAN juggle are just gone in an instant.
Also people keep saying "Yeah FF games are supposed to be easy" - Yes, easy. Like tactically easy. But not killing everything instantly. It's like playing all FF games on 5x Fast Forward. It messes up the whole pacing of the game and story. It feels weird.
An example people keep bringing up is "Pokemon is just as easy, it's the same thing" - No, Pokemon is a simple game, but it doesn't give you a pokemon that 1 shots everything without grinding from the start. That's how I feel here. Unreasonably OP unless I'm fighting a Hunt or Dragoon or some shit.
I know I'm whining at this point, but ugh. lol -
06-27-2023, 11:45 AMTheDecayYour argument is literally to use FF2, which is widely regarded as the literal second-worst or worst entry among main numbered titles, as an example and something FF16 should aspire to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur
https://www.rpgsite.net/feature/6530...ousands-of-you
I'm beginning to wonder whether you intend to discuss anything in good faith here. -
06-27-2023, 12:13 PMAtelier-BagurYeah? I wasnt talking about whether FF2 is the worst now was I? Or are you going to further twist the narrative here.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDecay
Also why the hell are you showing me this rank list of the best FF games? -
07-01-2023, 06:57 PMHanayumi
After going through a healthy portion of NG+ im genuinely surprised how much more RPG aspects reside in it vs the base game. Gearing especially gets tuned up a lot more, more gear options, higher upgrades, including the option to upgrade your accessories now, more materials especially for newer hunts, farming materials, farming levels, and a lot more difficult challenge modes. Ngl im thinking some mode variation of this NG+ of this should really be added as an option to start off with come PC release...