Mandeville Weapons will likely remain the same come 6.45 (Yoshida interview)

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

To clarify on this, it starts May 12th at 1AM PST and ends May 22nd at 1AM PST. More info on the free login (for those who have played it) here.

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Thanks for letting me know when to play some FF11 again :D

Same here, needing to dust off the account. Had to start all over again about 2 years ago with the free login, and last time I was ingame I was just unlocking SAM and SMN. SMN is such a horrible trip to unlock, lol.

https://media.tenor.com/FznHbwHlar4A...ppointment.gif

I am fine with options, I personally think relic should be accessible (and not focused for hard only content, which it generally has never really been, outside of nightmare atma farms, but ive seen suggested), but does make me wonder why at minimum something to use this expansion's DD wasn't also done.. seems underutilized.. could have been tomes and the V&C content (and maybe add other things, moogle tomes to V&C at least lol).

Definitely not against tomes as one option, personally probably more helpful for me lol so..not a negative, but for people who play a lot being directed to do different things is uh.. pretty good too lol. Like when relic could progress in and out of Bozja. (EDIT: removed eureka parallel, misleading reference).

Options are also nice crutch if one avenue dies, like if you used exclusively diadem for a relic step.. good luck doing that later lol.

amazing. this expac never ceases to disappoint with its ever increasing mediocrity.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Like when relic could progress in and out of Bozja / eureka.

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I am pretty certain Eureka relics still can only be progressed inside Eureka, every single step has one option and one option only.

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Originally Posted by Wyssahtyn

amazing. this expac never ceases to disappoint with its ever increasing mediocrity.

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Remember though, "no expenses spared going forward!"

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

I can only hope the backlash from EW's relics results in them going the FFXI route in 7.0. An excessively lengthy, costly, and difficult grind rewarded with incredibly powerful equipment is the way to go.

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I'm very much in support of this, especially the added battle effects FFXI relics have that actually have a tangible effect on gameplay besides just dealing more damage. A pity that this game has stripped so much away like the old AST cards in pursuit of something so short-sighted.

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Originally Posted by Wyssahtyn

amazing. this expac never ceases to disappoint with its ever increasing mediocrity.

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Endwalker has truly walked FFXIV to its end. For those of us who cared for the game part of the game at least.

Considering how ugly the weapons are so far, I'm indifferent. I've just been treating it as a tome sink anyway.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I'm very much in support of this, especially the added battle effects FFXI relics have that actually have a tangible effect on gameplay besides just dealing more damage. A pity that this game has stripped so much away like the old AST cards in pursuit of something so short-sighted.



Endwalker has truly walked FFXIV to its end. For those of us who cared for the game part of the game at least.

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The bonuses/effects on XI relics would never work in this game because our combat is so dumbed down. While I would love some complexity and depth in this game, I think they've made it pretty clear that that isn't the type of game they're going for. I feel like they've really sealed their fate for ever being able to shift out of the mundane. :/

I'd rather the later steps be the tedious ones than the inverse. It's not like the first 1-2 steps for past relics were that excruciating either (other than the 60 memories in ShB, which is still a miserable grind when no one else is doing it). But something like that could be turned into a FATE grind so it can give gemstones as well.

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

I am pretty certain Eureka relics still can only be progressed inside Eureka, every single step has one option and one option only.

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Ah sorry, I mentally locked on Bozja and use eureka to refer to all of those contents including Bozja. For clarity just associated them, as I did for DD/V&C, but lost clarity doing that because unlike DD which is specifically a concept eureka is a concept and a location. 11/10 communication lol.

I was meaning the Bozja options, edited my response to remove the pointless / misleading parallel.

In context though that'd be an example where the option existing was welcome as the content can die or be of or not be of interest. I know outside could be faster but in Bozja you also earned a lot of other stuff (I am also aware not every step had the same approach to options).

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

I am pretty certain Eureka relics still can only be progressed inside Eureka, every single step has one option and one option only.

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As someone suffering through Pagos now, this is still the case. You need massive amounts of crystals to get them all, and even a decent number if you just want to do one or two. You have to waste so much of your life in these zones doing nothing else because they're instances so it isn't even something you can do while waiting for a DF queue or specific DF queues you can focus on to get upgrades.

I will be disappointed if the next step on Manderville is tomes again, no lie. I never want to see something like Eureka's setup again because it's not future-proofed at all. But I think they took the feedback on that to the letter instead of the spirit. Many who disliked the adventure zone relic system wanted variety. Bozja was a good step in that direction. We could do things in Bozja if we wanted. We could also go outside Bozja. They didn't have a proper balance there, though, because both methods should have been equal. Not the non-Bozjan being guaranteed and Bozja not being guaranteed. They also faltered with bottleneck steps like requiring CLL and the timeworn artifact step with only two incredibly bad options.

Relic items for tomes does satisfy the mindset of wanting more variety and does allow options, but I know my general feeling was I just wanted to not be closeted away from the game and to be given more options, but still have them be specific options we could choose from instead of just anything that provides a certain tomestone. I was hoping Manderville would use some of the new content. The V&C would be good choices, as well as Deep Dungeon.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

In the interview with YoshiP on 6.4 from GameWatch/Famitsu/4Gamer/DengekiOnline:

Q: Mandaville Weapon has progressed in the form of consuming Allagan tomestones and exchanging necessary items in both stages so far, but will patch 6.45 follow the same flow? Or will it be a new process?

Yoshi: I don't really want to say "This is what needs to be collected" before the implementation, so let me refrain from talking about it (laughs). However, in terms of the flow, the intention this time is for players to be able to upgrade (the weapon) while playing various contents at the same time, so please be assured that there will be no major changes.

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https://media.giphy.com/media/9G3wg7...ized-large.gif

SHB = most hype and most players of all time joining the game

SE = "lets make EW the most boring xpac of all time"

For me this is very disappointing. :/

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Originally Posted by seolhyun

SHB = most hype and most players of all time joining the game

SE = "lets make EW the most boring xpac of all time"

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Unironically what ended up happening.

A solid story, and despite the COVID delay Bozja, Delubrum Reginae, and Zadnor ended up keeping me entertained along with the EX trials having dragon mounts which I liked to farm.

And now we're at the story having 800+ pages of criticisms levied at it, a Deep Dungeon that no one needs because people levelled to max earlier thanks to extended patch cycles, terrible trial weapons and mounts, and no unique relic content. Exploratory zones for this expansion being sacrificed at the feet of dead on arrival Island Sanctuary and Criterion Dungeons will come to be regarded as one of the darkest moments in this game's history.

Assuming 7.0 and 7.X don't somehow manage to be worse. As much as I want to see the game do well, how can I hope for any improvements when all of my confidence is gone?

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Unironically what ended up happening.

A solid story, and despite the COVID delay Bozja, Delubrum Reginae, and Zadnor ended up keeping me entertained along with the EX trials having dragon mounts which I liked to farm.

And now we're at the story having 800+ pages of criticisms levied at it, a Deep Dungeon that no one needs because people levelled to max earlier thanks to extended patch cycles, terrible trial weapons and mounts, and no unique relic content. Exploratory zones for this expansion being sacrificed at the feet of dead on arrival Island Sanctuary and Criterion Dungeons will come to be regarded as one of the darkest moments in this game's history.

Assuming 7.0 and 7.X don't somehow manage to be worse. As much as I want to see the game do well, how can I hope for any improvements when all of my confidence is gone?

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Honestly, 6.4 is their last chance for me. If they don't knock my socks off somehow, I'm going to take an extended vacation, even if it means losing my house. That isn't a decision I will (preferably not) make lightly. It's not like I've actually been playing in any capacity for over a month now anyway. It would just save me the hassle and allow my sub to be free from its hostage situation.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Honestly, 6.4 is their last chance for me. If they don't knock my socks off somehow, I'm going to take an extended vacation, even if it means losing my house. That isn't a decision I will (preferably not) make lightly. It's not like I've actually been playing in any capacity for over a month now anyway. It would just save me the hassle and allow my sub to be free from its hostage situation.

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This is the best way to share your criticism imo. Vote with your wallet, it's really the only thing that will matter in the end.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

This is the best way to share your criticism imo. Vote with your wallet, it's really the only thing that will matter in the end.

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Yep. I've tried to be patient while hoping that things would improve, but my patience has its limits. There are some things I simply won't put up with, and wasting money is one of those things.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Honestly, 6.4 is their last chance for me. If they don't knock my socks off somehow, I'm going to take an extended vacation, even if it means losing my house. That isn't a decision I will (preferably not) make lightly. It's not like I've actually been playing in any capacity for over a month now anyway. It would just save me the hassle and allow my sub to be free from its hostage situation.

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But what if that's what they want? Didn't Yoshida say, that his wish is to make one more good MMORGP from the scratch? What if, when they WANT to let die FFXIV? :/
I sometimes wonder about that, thb.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Yep. I've tried to be patient while hoping that things would improve, but my patience has its limits. There are some things I simply won't put up with, and wasting money is one of those things.

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Eh I'm sticking around for the AST rework to see if SE can screw up 3/3.

I love the extremes we do. ShB, the relics were annoying, but AT LEAST we had something to do, now they are just handed to you. Way to work with feedback. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Heavenchild

What if, when they WANT to let die FFXIV? :/
I sometimes wonder about that, thb.

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If that's what they want, then it's a shame, but I won't stick around to watch things happen regardless of their agenda.

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

Eh I'm sticking around for the AST rework to see if SE can screw up 3/3.

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Please no.. I’m looking forward to playing 7.0 MSQ with AST.

We're told that the Developers (etc) read the Official Forums and subreddit and stuff, so I do try to pop up here occasionally to add my thoughts to topics that are important to me. This is definitely one of them.

This is so wildly disappointing to me. The current design decisions seem to be focused on making the game as hyper casual as possible (outside of like, Ultimates?), and while that's generally fine, when it comes to content like Relics it just makes the expansion feel so empty? Objectively of course, it isn't -- we've gotten Orthos, Criterion, Island Sanctuary, quality of life adjustments, so on and so forth; but for the most part much of the playable content added has been one and done. I understand -- and don't even necessarily disagree with -- the idea to make the Relic be achieved in an alternate easier way like what's happening now, but it shouldn't be the only way; it should be a supplementary way for largely casual players to tome dump. It truly and genuinely feels like the Developers got so tired of being criticized for any type of Relic Grind that they just kind of threw their hands in the air and spitefully said "okay fine, we'll make it easier -- we'll basically make it free" because they were out of ideas and did not know what to do.

I always see in threads like these some folks who immediately come to the defense of the developers and the game by saying "well, they've said you should take a break and go play other games", and it's frustrating. They say that, but then if I do, my House gets demolished, and if you live on a highly populated server or have a M or L plot -- good luck getting that back. Even outside of the House thing I want to play the game, but this expansion isn't giving me many reasons to actually play the game. There's not much content to do at level 90 that is around mid-core that you can easily drop in play some of, leave, and pick back up later.

I'm hoping (see: coping) things change in 7.0 but I'm concerned they won't because we'll be told that so many resources were spent on the graphical updates, so to wait to 8.0; but regardless I wanted to add my voice to the chorus of others who have also been expressing their discontent by this decision in this thread and the other one.

Genuine question, what would you guys even want to do for relic anyways?

If its just running dungeons then i really doubt why the hell you prefer that over [your choice here you find fun] instead

i can do pvp or frontlines and get the stuff i need that way, i i have to do old expac alliance raids id scream.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

Please no.. I’m looking forward to playing 7.0 MSQ with AST.

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Good luck to you, then. You're going to need it.

Good guy YoshiP catering to people that plays 1h per week . Disappointing news as always, this is post 6.0 in a nutshell I suppose.

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Originally Posted by Heavenchild

But what if that's what they want? Didn't Yoshida say, that his wish is to make one more good MMORGP from the scratch? What if, when they WANT to let die FFXIV? :/
I sometimes wonder about that, thb.

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Yup thought I heard that too once before endwalker iirc but now they said they have ten years worth of gaming planned and are improving the graphics in the next expansion so doubt they want to let the game die.

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

Genuine question, what would you guys even want to do for relic anyways?

If its just running dungeons then i really doubt why the hell you prefer that over [your choice here you find fun] instead

i can do pvp or frontlines and get the stuff i need that way, i i have to do old expac alliance raids id scream.

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The book step in ARR has some issues but one thing it got right was how that step touched different pieces of content. If each step of a relic was a bit more like WT type of system where you have a choice over different pieces of content to get MacGuffin A and then another choice over these pieces of content to get MacGuffin B, then I think there would still be that sense of earning the relic while also not limiting players to just one or two specific things to grind. Someone could still say "Hey this is the best risk/reward for me" and grind out one thing, but it's a conscious choice then like how people find what they like for Moogle tomes instead of SE choosing for us.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

The book step in ARR has some issues but one thing it got right was how that step touched different pieces of content. If each step of a relic was a bit more like WT type of system where you have a choice over different pieces of content to get MacGuffin A and then another choice over these pieces of content to get MacGuffin B, then I think there would still be that sense of earning the relic while also not limiting players to just one or two specific things to grind. Someone could still say "Hey this is the best risk/reward for me" and grind out one thing, but it's a conscious choice then like how people find what they like for Moogle tomes instead of SE choosing for us.

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if its just farming a wide variety of content like with moogle tomes, then isnt that just what it is now?

Instead of an item to farm or %chance farm just use the tomes you get from said variety of content anyways? It doesnt seem signifigant enough to want that over what we have now when they are in the end the same thing with less middle man

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

I can only hope the backlash from EW's relics results in them going the FFXI route in 7.0. An excessively lengthy, costly, and difficult grind rewarded with incredibly powerful equipment is the way to go.

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Man, I remember the ARR Zeta grind and people complaining it was too much and XI players going "This is nothing" lmao. We're coming full circle, going from "it's too grindy" to "it's not grindy enough" now and people asking for it to be more of a grind again... devs really can't win here. "It's too grindy and hard to get my weapon" for 4 xpacs and so now that it's "FINE, IS THIS TOO GRINDY???" it's not enough, but they also didn't have to go full scorched earth, so to speak.

They do need to find a balance though; I think Bozja was a great balance between grinding and having multiple ways to get item drops, but tbf, "more of the same" doesn't necessarily mean "it's going to be another 1500 tomes" (please don't prove me wrong devs, I would also like something else, especially when the talk of EW relics was "it'll be more like the ARR relic in terms of getting it" had me interested in the how) but... we'll see in 3-ish months I suppose. Talking about it so early is just going to get people speculating for much too long about the how and why of what it's going to be, and people are only going to get more angry about it despite not knowing anything but something vague.

I can't believe people still defend the lack of content this expansion lol

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

if its just farming a wide variety of content like with moogle tomes, then isnt that just what it is now?

Instead of an item to farm or %chance farm just use the tomes you get from said variety of content anyways? It doesnt seem signifigant enough to want that over what we have now when they are in the end the same thing with less middle man

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The difference with a moogle tome system is that you do still have a make a choice to focus on something specific. I think it's that choice part that's important and makes it feel earned. I do enjoy relic steps that allow you to passively get upgrades from daily activities like back in ARR with the daily alexandrite map quest. But it's also nice to have the ones that do point you at a handful of options and let you choose. Plus there's the camaraderie of finding others on that journey and continuing to run into them and cheering each other on.

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

if its just farming a wide variety of content like with moogle tomes, then isnt that just what it is now?

Instead of an item to farm or %chance farm just use the tomes you get from said variety of content anyways? It doesnt seem signifigant enough to want that over what we have now when they are in the end the same thing with less middle man

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Most likely just play the same roulettes you have been doing for the last X years of this expansion.

Surely your not bored of doing the same dungeons for almost 2 years, right?

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Originally Posted by FatalFatalis

It should cost tomestones of comedy instead of causality, it would fit perfectly with the questline surrounding it, or with the absolute state of the relic for that matter.

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The Burn (Savage)

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

This is the best way to share your criticism imo. Vote with your wallet, it's really the only thing that will matter in the end.

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https://i.imgur.com/Spdb1aE.jpg

This is unacceptable. I'm not surprised, but I'm still disappointed. It really IS just an easier-to-obtain tome weapon now- don't even need the 7 Rowena tokens, and it uses the easier to obtain tomestones. This was a problem with the last two, and I was hoping that it would change later on, but... enough's enough. This is a terrible decision.

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Originally Posted by rainichan

Man, I remember the ARR Zeta grind and people complaining it was too much and XI players going "This is nothing" lmao. We're coming full circle, going from "it's too grindy" to "it's not grindy enough" now and people asking for it to be more of a grind again... devs really can't win here. "It's too grindy and hard to get my weapon" for 4 xpacs and so now that it's "FINE, IS THIS TOO GRINDY???" it's not enough, but they also didn't have to go full scorched earth, so to speak.

They do need to find a balance though; I think Bozja was a great balance between grinding and having multiple ways to get item drops, but tbf, "more of the same" doesn't necessarily mean "it's going to be another 1500 tomes" (please don't prove me wrong devs, I would also like something else, especially when the talk of EW relics was "it'll be more like the ARR relic in terms of getting it" had me interested in the how) but... we'll see in 3-ish months I suppose. Talking about it so early is just going to get people speculating for much too long about the how and why of what it's going to be, and people are only going to get more angry about it despite not knowing anything but something vague.

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Bozja was great during it's peak. Late in the expansion after people were phasing out and especially now if people want to go back and grind it, it's a pain the ass and extremely difficult since it relied on others. These exploration zones would probably be better if every activity within could be done solo in every possible way.

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Originally Posted by Remish

Bozja was great during it's peak. Late in the expansion after people were phasing out and especially now if people want to go back and grind it, it's a pain the ass and extremely difficult since it relied on others. These exploration zones would probably be better if every activity within could be done solo in every possible way.

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Definitely imo, although I feel they could present an interesting content for blue mage (and with the auto buff system may mean solo-able just by letting them in).

If progress on relics can be done with blue mage, could be a fun thing to do and potentially learn skills from.